Paradox, an article continuing on the discussion we had yesterday.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/30/up-to-three-covid-jabs-a-year-could-be-needed-for-protection-data-suggests

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Flying Dutchman said..

myscreenname said..
I don't doubt the stories, but what I do doubt is that this is a conspiracy.

I don't think it's a conspiracy either, it's incompetency.

You don't doubt the stories?
Didn't you post the video about 'The Dragon in the Garage'?
You've had a change of heart?

I posted the video to Jappie, not you..... Lol.
Go for a walk, or fill out the forms for for your mates compo claim.

I can't see people lining up for more than one jab a year after this. They'll make a more effective vaccine, they got the ones we have now in record time. We'll get on top of this.

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myscreenname said..
I don't doubt the stories, but what I do doubt is that this I posted the video to Jappie, not you..... Lol.

Go for a walk, or fill out the forms for for your mates compo claim.

If you're gonna mock Japie at least spell his name right.

Fill out forms for my mates compo claim?

C'mon, you're better than that.

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Flying Dutchman said..
If you're gonna mock Japie at least spell his name right.

Pffft, running out of material to post?

You are not incompetent, why not do something worthwhile.... buy a chemistry set and make us a vaccine that works?

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Pffft, running out of material to post?

You are competent, why don't you do something worthwhile.... buy a chemistry set and make us a vaccine that works?

Just came across this thread... ??
I've got a vaccine that works, no chemistry set needed - sun, diet and exercise.

Isn't it a nice day down at the beach guys? Why are you constantly here going on about Covid ****?

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southace said..
Isn't it a nice day down at the beach guys? Why are you constantly here going on about Covid ****?

I'm waiting for wind, another hour or so I'm out there haha

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Flying Dutchman said..
Paradox, an article continuing on the discussion we had yesterday.

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/30/up-to-three-covid-jabs-a-year-could-be-needed-for-protection-data-suggests

Typical Guardian. Journism without a narrative is dead. Mind you they are all doing it.

I explained yesterday fairly well the difference between symptomatic disease (contracting COVID) and severe disease (hospitalisation), its not that hard.

I have no doubt most journalists or at least thier editors also know the difference by now. But instead of highlighting that waning protection is solely about contracting and transmitting COVID (symptomatic disease) they make it sound like protection against severe disease is waning, when that is not the case. There is nothing untrue in that article, but it is highly misleading due to what it omits or does not explain in context. The Guardian is a master at it, especially when it comes to topics like this or climate change.

Vaccine effectiveness for infection and transmission against Delta was under 50%. possibly well under. Omicron will probably turn out to be well under 25% effectiveness. So for people not in a high risk group boosters are merely going to be topping that protection against infection and trasmission between say 10% and 20%. Totallly useless.

It means nothing in a public health setting for the bulk of the population. Although as mentioned for those at risk it is worth it for sure, plus for those at risk it does help with severe disease waning.

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southace said..
Isn't it a nice day down at the beach guys? Why are you constantly here going on about Covid ****?

Quote our Prime Minister from today's address- "if you don't meet the definition of a close contact, if you are not symptomatic, don't line up for tests, you don't have to be there, you don't have to isolate, go to the beach."

informed my boss i am not a close contact and am going to beach as per the govt rules..

For those who like to down play the risk this virus poses to the wider community.

In the past 6 months since that one bloke visited Bondi Junction and kicked off the Delta outbreak on the East Coast.

There has been 1300 Covid Caused Deaths (not just being asymptomatic and dying with it) from that single point of infection

That is a significant jump from our worst Influenza years (whole year not just 6 months).
This is especially significant due to:
-The generally much lower Flu vaccination rates during those years (large proportion of the population usually trust their immune systems and not think about who else they may infect)
- We had really strict infection control measures in place
- And the flu can usually enter the country year round from whatever overseas destination is currently experiencing a surge

Sure, in the future we're all hoping that this virus will have as little impact on society as the common cold.

But right now it is still a full on pandemic

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myscreenname said..

Thanks, interesting info. Will read up some more about Florida and how it panned out. I think Sweeden, initially also had a policy of just let it rip.

I don't like the term "let it rip". Its taking a whole scale of possible responses and saying if it's not this response then it's nothing at all. It's a very black and white view of a multivaried approach.

It's a favourite tactic of those that want to push an extreme or political narrative and silence any alternate view, no matter how moderate. I see the same thing with climate change, if you dont think that CO2 is a poison that will kill us all in the next few years then you are a science denier, no matter your expertise on the matter or what the science actually says.

In reality you can do a range of things to reduce infection rates and protect the vulnerable without forcing mandates, locking down communities or making those that refuse second class citizens. It's a hard concept for some, but when governments actually step back and say we will do what we can to ensure public response is maximised, but won't impinge on your freedoms, people actuallly then take personal responsibility and alter their own behaviour through free choice.

Might be a good time to look back at the Barrington Declaration. This article is thought provoking. Melbourne was highlighted as an extreme case with just a months lockdown. What did that turn into?

www.aier.org/article/the-great-barrington-declaration-and-its-critics/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAq7COBhC2ARIsANsPATHbrQicZ43I1gLtsHOrdHuhpKMY8A85oT0tqzn4ReIwtrX0D39KEAIaAtwgEALw_wcB

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Paradox said..
I don't like the term "let it rip".

Went down to the beach with my gear, waves were firing, double mast, cross off.

This copper pulled me up as I was about to sail off, "Hey! Did you see the sign, beach is closed. It's a Covid restriction & the surf is too dangerous. What's your name?"

"it."

His offsider said, "Shall we let it rip?"

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D3 said..
For those who like to down play the risk this virus poses to the wider community.

In the past 6 months since that one bloke visited Bondi Junction and kicked off the Delta outbreak on the East Coast.

There has been 1300 Covid Caused Deaths (not just being asymptomatic and dying with it) from that single point of infection

That is a significant jump from our worst Influenza years (whole year not just 6 months).
This is especially significant due to:
-The generally much lower Flu vaccination rates during those years (large proportion of the population usually trust their immune systems and not think about who else they may infect)
- We had really strict infection control measures in place
- And the flu can usually enter the country year round from whatever overseas destination is currently experiencing a surge

Sure, in the future we're all hoping that this virus will have as little impact on society as the common cold.

But right now it is still a full on pandemic

I think you will find the questions are more about who has been effected and does COVID target a certain vulnerable section of the community or as you say, is it a significant risk to the wider community.

If you check your 1,300 deaths in Australia you will find the vast majority are over 70. I believe stats from the US showed 93% of deaths had on average 2.5 other co-morbidities. You will also find that in the US where the virus was present everywhere it raised the overall death rate by about 15%. It's actually not that big of an increase.

There is no doubt it is a pandemic and is serious, however it has never been all that serious for most of the population. It always should have been about ensuring the vulnerable are identified and protected and that hospitals could cope. Everything else actually has most likely cost more than saved and those costs will become evident over the next decade.

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eppo said..
Do you guys feel it's now time to "let it rip" and get on with it ? I do - and I have an immuno compromisers son, whose double vaxed - but I'm seriously against these bloody booster shots for him. Well I'm against any mandates to be honest - especially as they have held many of our jobs as ransom. That's scary - the start of 1984 sh1t.

what do guys think on that ?

I'm thinking same. I got my booster an no more for me. I'm not going to check in, no mask, no tests... unless someone is policing it.

I think it's in the wild now anyway in Eastern States, so DGAF. I think I've done my bit over past two years.

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myscreenname said..
I'm thinking same. I got my booster an no more for me. I'm not going to check in, no mask, no tests... unless someone is policing it.

Wow, who would have thought, myscreenname has become an anti-vaxxer.

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Flying Dutchman said..
Wow, who would have thought, myscreenname has become an anti-vaxxer.

You must have cognitive issues! My first sentence said I got a booster yesterday. Anti-vaxxer?

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myscreenname said..
You must have cognitive issues! My first sentence said I got a booster yesterday. Anti-vaxxer?

My cognition is ok on this one. You didn't say you got the booster 'yesterday', you said;

''I'm thinking same. I got my booster an no more for me."

But let's not split hairs shall we, no more jabs from here on.

Well done.

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Paradox said..

D3 said..
For those who like to down play the risk this virus poses to the wider community.

In the past 6 months since that one bloke visited Bondi Junction and kicked off the Delta outbreak on the East Coast.

There has been 1300 Covid Caused Deaths (not just being asymptomatic and dying with it) from that single point of infection

That is a significant jump from our worst Influenza years (whole year not just 6 months).
This is especially significant due to:
-The generally much lower Flu vaccination rates during those years (large proportion of the population usually trust their immune systems and not think about who else they may infect)
- We had really strict infection control measures in place
- And the flu can usually enter the country year round from whatever overseas destination is currently experiencing a surge

Sure, in the future we're all hoping that this virus will have as little impact on society as the common cold.

But right now it is still a full on pandemic

I think you will find the questions are more about who has been effected and does COVID target a certain vulnerable section of the community or as you say, is it a significant risk to the wider community.

If you check your 1,300 deaths in Australia you will find the vast majority are over 70. I believe stats from the US showed 93% of deaths had on average 2.5 other co-morbidities. You will also find that in the US where the virus was present everywhere it raised the overall death rate by about 15%. It's actually not that big of an increase.

There is no doubt it is a pandemic and is serious, however it has never been all that serious for most of the population. It always should have been about ensuring the vulnerable are identified and protected and that hospitals could cope. Everything else actually has most likely cost more than saved and those costs will become evident over the next decade.

it'll take something amazing to show what's happened. Having a reaction to the vax results in negativity toward the victim, as does suffering from lockdown or any other complaint/insult one may suffer.
One of the school mums suggested we all vax our kids last week on a year level forum then another removed me from the group because I commented that I have pericarditis.

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psychojoe said..
it'll take something amazing to show what's happened. Having a reaction to the vax results in negativity toward the victim, as does suffering from lockdown or any other complaint/insult one may suffer.
One of the school mums suggested we all vax our kids last week on a year level forum then another removed me from the group because I commented that I have pericarditis.

That's been going on since the great toilet paper war of 2020.

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Flying Dutchman said..
Well done.

Well done for what? I've had all available vaccinations. There are no more available.

How, can you possibly label me an anti-vaxxer?

You should do the decent thing, eat some more humble pie, accept your cognitive issues and publicly

APOLOGISE

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myscreenname said..
You should do the decent thing, eat some more humble pie, accept your cognitive issues and publicly

APOLOGISE

Haha

I love how you think it's acceptable to say I should fill out my injured mates compo claim but when you say you're not having any more jabs I crack a joke & say you're now an anti-vaxxer you get triggered.

FFS mate get some perspective.

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myscreenname said..

Well done for what? I've had all available vaccinations. There are no more available.

How, can you possibly label me an anti-vaxxer?

You should do the decent thing, eat some more humble pie, accept your cognitive issues and publicly

APOLOGISE

Yeah, no. You, in no uncertain terms, hinted that you may possibly think about not having further boosters. That is more than enough for the general population to brand you an antivaxer...

In fact facebook is monitoring this site and has now shadow banned all your social media for spreading missinformation and has placed a warning on your account saying you are an antivaxx, Trump supporting, climate denier....

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Flying Dutchman said..

myscreenname said..
You should do the decent thing, eat some more humble pie, accept your cognitive issues and publicly

APOLOGISE

Haha

I love how you think it's acceptable to say I should fill out my injured mates compo claim but when you say you're not having any more jabs I crack a joke & say you're now an anti-vaxxer you get triggered.

FFS mate get some perspective.

You told us you were trying to help your mate. But all you've done is bang on this thread for 13 pages about chest problems and antagonising honest, hard-working, happy go lucky watersport forum readers who are here to help. How is that helping your mate?

$10K would help your mate far more, he could buy an 8K huge TV for that. Compo was advertised on Today Tonight on channel seven, so it's legit.

It's not our fault you have run out of content.

APOLOGISE

Who needs TV when you can just follow this thread.

A lot more dragons in this thread than tv
Anyways, back on topic,
I just sold all my bitcoin, was that a mistake ??

Only made about 3 months of my normal wage out of BC,
so I kept 8k and invested the other 8k into a new crypto that could be the next big thing?? maybe ???
If its not I lose the 8k, which was made from doing nothing anyways, but if it does take of then $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Got to be in it to win it.

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D3 said..
For those who like to down play the risk this virus poses to the wider community.

In the past 6 months since that one bloke visited Bondi Junction and kicked off the Delta outbreak on the East Coast.

There has been 1300 Covid Caused Deaths (not just being asymptomatic and dying with it) from that single point of infection

That is a significant jump from our worst Influenza years (whole year not just 6 months).

No, it's not 'significant jump' at all.
It's bang on about average for a 6 monthly figure for deaths from influenza in Australia, for the years leading up to 2020.

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lotofwind said..
A lot more dragons in this thread than tv
Anyways, back on topic,
I just sold all my bitcoin, was that a mistake ??

Only made about 3 months of my normal wage out of BC,
so I kept 8k and invested the other 8k into a new crypto that could be the next big thing?? maybe ???
If its not I lose the 8k, which was made from doing nothing anyways, but if it does take of then $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
Got to be in it to win it.

Is there anywhere that you can place bets on new Covid cases. I'm thinking 25K in NSW on Jan 5.

I read that numbers are dumping in South Africa.

Answered my own question.

nypost.com/2020/04/16/gambling-sites-are-taking-bets-on-the-number-of-coronavirus-cases/

If this thread gets a bit dull, watch "Don't Look Up" on Netflix, I thought it was a fun entertaining movie with a good cast, and somewhat relevant to what's been posted on this thread.

Let's play a game, who PERSONALLY knows anyone that's been proper sick or died of covid vs Personally knowing someone injured from the jab.
Ill go first.
I know of 4 people know that have caught covid and they reported nothing more than a runny nose and sore throat.
Vax injury - I personally know 2 people, windsurfers with pericarditis, another 1 with myocarditis and my uncle had a stroke, age 49. He lived, 6 months estimated recovery and the cardiologist treating him couldn't find a genuine reason why he suffered it. When he asked the doctor "could it be the Vax??" Doctor nodded and said "I'm not aloud to say that." true story from the mouth of my uncle. I wasn't personally there for that conversation but I believe him.

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Paradox said..

D3 said..
For those who like to down play the risk this virus poses to the wider community.

In the past 6 months since that one bloke visited Bondi Junction and kicked off the Delta outbreak on the East Coast.

There has been 1300 Covid Caused Deaths (not just being asymptomatic and dying with it) from that single point of infection

That is a significant jump from our worst Influenza years (whole year not just 6 months).
This is especially significant due to:
-The generally much lower Flu vaccination rates during those years (large proportion of the population usually trust their immune systems and not think about who else they may infect)
- We had really strict infection control measures in place
- And the flu can usually enter the country year round from whatever overseas destination is currently experiencing a surge

Sure, in the future we're all hoping that this virus will have as little impact on society as the common cold.

But right now it is still a full on pandemic

I think you will find the questions are more about who has been effected and does COVID target a certain vulnerable section of the community or as you say, is it a significant risk to the wider community.

If you check your 1,300 deaths in Australia you will find the vast majority are over 70. I believe stats from the US showed 93% of deaths had on average 2.5 other co-morbidities. You will also find that in the US where the virus was present everywhere it raised the overall death rate by about 15%. It's actually not that big of an increase.

There is no doubt it is a pandemic and is serious, however it has never been all that serious for most of the population. It always should have been about ensuring the vulnerable are identified and protected and that hospitals could cope. Everything else actually has most likely cost more than saved and those costs will become evident over the next decade.

Can we agree that we shouldn't compare USA with Australia, not least because we did manage to keep covid under control for the majority of the past two years.

Making statements akin to 'it only kills the old and infirm' us extremely misleading and you come across as though 15% of the population is fair game because they're old.

And that's not even counting people who have complicated health status through no fault if their own.

Lots of people have these co-morbidities that mught otherwise not be an issue.

Apparently 2/3 of Australians are obese or overweight. Sure some could get that sorted over time, but right now they're at greater risk.

And then there are all those other quite common co-morbidities:-
Pregnancy
Previous or current smoker
Hear diseases
Lung disease
Kidney diseases
Liver diseases

So when state 'we need to protect the vulnerable', I totally agree. But we need to be clear as to just how many people in our society are actually at risk

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kiterboy said..

D3 said..
For those who like to down play the risk this virus poses to the wider community.

In the past 6 months since that one bloke visited Bondi Junction and kicked off the Delta outbreak on the East Coast.

There has been 1300 Covid Caused Deaths (not just being asymptomatic and dying with it) from that single point of infection

That is a significant jump from our worst Influenza years (whole year not just 6 months).

No, it's not 'significant jump' at all.
It's bang on about average for a 6 monthly figure for deaths from influenza in Australia, for the years leading up to 2020.

Gonna ask you for your evidence again.

Didn't you say in an earlier post that the flu kills 4000 a year?

Edit: also, as I mentioned, in those years leading up to 2020 we had no pandemic controls, low vaccination rates and year round introduction of whatever flu strain felt like taking a run at the title for the year.
Skews the numbers a bit doesn't it.