Select to expand quote

CH3MTR4IL5 said..
i take it you had AZ then if something without lipids? i didn't realise that the myocarditis symptoms were occurring so quickly, i assumed they were appearing some time after.

The second is the younger subgroup of myocarditis/pericarditis. Specifically, 12-39-year-olds at days 1-21 of vaccination had a 9.8-times increased risk of myocarditis or pericarditis compared to those at days 22-42 of vaccination. This gives an excess of 6.3 cases per million doses.More specifically, 85% were male, 85% experienced it within 7 days of vaccination, 82% were hospitalized, and 6% were admitted to the intensive care unit. But nobody died.

source below, worth a read in general.

medium.com/microbial-instincts/mrna-vaccine-safety-and-risks-a-one-year-update-from-the-u-s-u-k-and-israel-20402f345dca

Myocarditis - 2.7 excess events per 100,000 persons?

Any chance it's been under reported? Even on this thread a number of people are expressing personal myocarditis stories and I know of about 5 directly/indirectly.

I find it hard to believe these numbers or maybe I'm just statically unlucky.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..

FormulaNova said..

myscreenname said..
I was just looking at the NSW charts of COVID cases and it's doing way better than bitcoin. It was steady at 200 for weeks and has gone 25x in a week.

COVID has no intrinsic value and I reckon a bubble is forming. It's a ponzi and will go to zero.

If I was to speculate on WA, I think this time next week cases will go at least 5x. I think they have Delta.

Don't tempt fate! Last time we locked down I had to wear a mask to the kitebeach, rig up, take off mask, and then go kiting for an hour or so. It was terrible! (maybe it was the time before? I think one of the other times I had to go bike riding and take of the mask. There were so many lockdowns I lost count, not just one continuous one.)

There is a new crypto currency coming out, which will be better than Bitcoin, if they can only figure out what it was about Bitcoin that was so important.

The press must be trying to mislead us:

"The man's girlfriend and four people he was living with in Girrawheen have all tested negative. They were all vaccinated."

As if! A vaccine that helped them not get it even though they were living in the same house? Incredible! Must be a conspiracy.

Come on bud you are better than that. Using one example to try and secure a point of view. This need to be data driven over as bigger sample space as possible to make any inferences. And these inferences need to be tested with aim of disproving them. That's the science process - something lacking in this entire debacle regarding masks, lockdowns, other treatment protocols and this entire experimental vaccine (we need to stop calling it a vaccine really ), let's go with pre treatment method.

Me, better than that. Nah, you must be thinking of someone else

It is an interesting example though. It makes me wonder if this guy was wandering around, with the vaccinated people around him shrugging it off, and it latching onto those that are unvaccinated.

Maybe we will see some data from this current outbreak, which won't be conclusive, but it may be interesting never-the-less. If all the people that pop up with cases are unvaccinated, it will give us a hint that the vaccine works.

I don't understand why you and others refer to it as an experimental vaccine. They are vaccines. Whether they work in practice or not is more related to the strains and the evolution of them, not the immune reaction that they are causing, which is pretty normal science. We are not trying to get the body to react to something that is not there, we are provoking a reaction with a facsimile of the virus, close enough to match the real virus.

The guy you were talking about the other day talks about not being able to catch Covid more than once. Now to me, that sounds a bit fanciful. If this were true, you would think that variants wouldn't be of any risk, but they are, both to those that have had Covid and those vaccinated. Similarly masks seem to show a contribution to reducing transmission of the virus, yet that guy seems to think it didn't. Maybe because it didn't align with his preconceived views?

The unvaxed are so ungrateful. Nobody is twisting their arms to get the jab.

The sheepies know that the unvaxxed are muttonheads, not only are the unvaxxed putting themselves at risk, but all their families and friends.

But when sheepies line up in long queues for endless jabs, to protect muttonheads, Instead of being thankful they sit there and moan, rabbit on about heart palpitations, the Murdoch press and other unsubstantiated claims.

I'm kind of coming around to the idea of stoning the muttonheads.

They are experimental because;

- They are only in wide use because of emergency approval, otherwise they would still be going through years of testing and trials.

- There has never been vaccinations based on the technology these have been made with, successfully implemented anywhere for anything.

If you don't understand the difference between these novel, experimental treatments compared to traditional vaccines, well don't worry, keep your head in the sand.

P.S. Please prove any of the above, incorrect.

Select to expand quote

kiterboy said..
They are experimental because;

- They are only in wide use because of emergency approval, otherwise they would still be going through years of testing and trials.

- There has never been vaccinations based on the technology these have been made with, successfully implemented anywhere for anything.

If you don't understand the difference between these novel, experimental treatments compared to traditional vaccines, well don't worry, keep your head in the sand.

P.S. Please prove any of the above, incorrect.

Ooooohhhh... I have been challenged to prove any of the above incorrect.

I must respond now!

Select to expand quote

myscreenname said..
The unvaxed are so ungrateful. Nobody is twisting their arms to get the jab.

The sheepies know that the unvaxxed are muttonheads, not only are the unvaxxed putting themselves at risk, but all their families and friends.

But when sheepies line up in long queues for endless jabs, to protect muttonheads, Instead of being thankful they sit there and moan, rabbit on about heart palpitations, the Murdoch press and other unsubstantiated claims.

I'm kind of coming around to the idea of stoning the muttonheads.

If you stone the muttonheads, who are going to be the guinea pigs when a new variant comes to town?

Also, note that these same muttonheads may be buying big on bitcoin, so be careful!

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

kiterboy said..
They are experimental because;

- They are only in wide use because of emergency approval, otherwise they would still be going through years of testing and trials.

- There has never been vaccinations based on the technology these have been made with, successfully implemented anywhere for anything.

If you don't understand the difference between these novel, experimental treatments compared to traditional vaccines, well don't worry, keep your head in the sand.

P.S. Please prove any of the above, incorrect.

Ooooohhhh... I have been challenged to prove any of the above incorrect.

I must respond now!

You don't have to, you don't have to feel bad about being completely wrong.
You should be used to it by now.

Select to expand quote

kiterboy said..
P.S. Please prove any of the above, incorrect.

because you asked nicely.

- There has never been vaccinations based on the technology these have been made with, successfully implemented anywhere for anything.

"The first human trial of an mRNA vaccine began in 2009 in a small group of patients who had prostate cancer. Overall, that mRNA vaccine was well tolerated and had a good safety profile. In 2013 a clinical trial began of an mRNA rabies vaccine in healthy human adults. This rabies trial was important because the safety requirements for a vaccine in a healthy population are more stringent than those for a vaccine being used to treat a disease. The study ran from 2013-2016, and continues to collect long-term safety data. But overall, this vaccine was deemed generally safe and tolerable. mRNA vaccines are now in use in clinical trials for HIV, the Zika virus, and influenza."

Source: www.forbes.com/sites/ellenmatloff/2020/12/18/what-are-the-long-term-safety-risks-of-the-pfizer-and-moderna-covid-19-vaccines/?sh=3bbd47e468f3

And development of coronavirus vaccines has been undertaken for nearly 20 years, and this pandemic accelerated existing research. A significant amount of the groundwork had been done for SARS before it was shelved (de-funded because it was no longer a priority when it was contained in 2003- and its hard to test efficacy of a vaccine if there is no disease around to test it on).

After a year and 8 billion doses there is far, far more data on efficacy and safety for covid vaccines in the real world than any new drug that may have gone through the standard TGA process.

Select to expand quote

CH3MTR4IL5 said..

kiterboy said..
P.S. Please prove any of the above, incorrect.

because you asked nicely.

- There has never been vaccinations based on the technology these have been made with, successfully implemented anywhere for anything.

"The first human trial of an mRNA vaccine began in 2009 in a small group of patients who had prostate cancer. Overall, that mRNA vaccine was well tolerated and had a good safety profile. In 2013 a clinical trial began of an mRNA rabies vaccine in healthy human adults. This rabies trial was important because the safety requirements for a vaccine in a healthy population are more stringent than those for a vaccine being used to treat a disease. The study ran from 2013-2016, and continues to collect long-term safety data. But overall, this vaccine was deemed generally safe and tolerable. mRNA vaccines are now in use in clinical trials for HIV, the Zika virus, and influenza."

Source: www.forbes.com/sites/ellenmatloff/2020/12/18/what-are-the-long-term-safety-risks-of-the-pfizer-and-moderna-covid-19-vaccines/?sh=3bbd47e468f3

And development of coronavirus vaccines has been undertaken for nearly 20 years, and this pandemic accelerated existing research. A significant amount of the groundwork had been done for SARS before it was shelved (de-funded because it was no longer a priority when it was contained in 2003- and its hard to test efficacy of a vaccine if there is no disease around to test it on).

After a year and 8 billion doses there is far, far more data on efficacy and safety for covid vaccines in the real world than any new drug that may have gone through the standard TGA process.

Also, testing was "accelerated" because there were hordes of people willing to sign up for the trials, which is actually hard to do with less terrifying diseases...

With regards to people claiming you can't catch covid twice.
The first person to die from Omicron was unvaccinated and had previously suffered a bout of covid.
A guy in his fifties.

www.webmd.com/lung/news/20211224/first-omicron-death-in-u-s-was-reinfection

A year. One year. Most drugs have to be tested for more than a year before they are released. It is still highly experimental. We have no long term effects data - at all. I'm not against the vaccine at all (I'm highly against mandates, entire population based lock downs and think this booster path is a highway to now where with the only winners being the profit of pharma) but the justifications you are giving for it not being an extensive lab rat experiment (with us as the rats) is just utter rubbish. Mathematically speaking.

what we should be doing is developing quick cheap, non intensive testing and have continual nationwide application of these tests. Isolate (lockdown) those who test positive. Follow the epidemiological connections to those exposed and test them to - with personal isolation mandates until cleared.


the solution lies in testing - because this so called vaccine is doing a pretty damn average job even in parts of the world that have super high vaccination rates. Its just one part of the solution puzzle but a crude bullet to a problem that needs a far more nuanced approach.

Select to expand quote

CH3MTR4IL5 said..

kiterboy said..
P.S. Please prove any of the above, incorrect.

because you asked nicely.

- There has never been vaccinations based on the technology these have been made with, successfully implemented anywhere for anything.

"The first human trial of an mRNA vaccine began in 2009 in a small group of patients who had prostate cancer. Overall, that mRNA vaccine was well tolerated and had a good safety profile. In 2013 a clinical trial began of an mRNA rabies vaccine in healthy human adults. This rabies trial was important because the safety requirements for a vaccine in a healthy population are more stringent than those for a vaccine being used to treat a disease. The study ran from 2013-2016, and continues to collect long-term safety data. But overall, this vaccine was deemed generally safe and tolerable. mRNA vaccines are now in use in clinical trials for HIV, the Zika virus, and influenza."

Source: www.forbes.com/sites/ellenmatloff/2020/12/18/what-are-the-long-term-safety-risks-of-the-pfizer-and-moderna-covid-19-vaccines/?sh=3bbd47e468f3

And development of coronavirus vaccines has been undertaken for nearly 20 years, and this pandemic accelerated existing research. A significant amount of the groundwork had been done for SARS before it was shelved (de-funded because it was no longer a priority when it was contained in 2003- and its hard to test efficacy of a vaccine if there is no disease around to test it on).

After a year and 8 billion doses there is far, far more data on efficacy and safety for covid vaccines in the real world than any new drug that may have gone through the standard TGA process.

So, I'm seeing trials...small groups...trials...
Sorry, were you going to give an example of something currently in full approved use?
You know, something successfully implemented?

Select to expand quote

CH3MTR4IL5 said..
After a year and 8 billion doses there is far, far more SHORT TERM ONLY data on efficacy and SHORT TERM safety for covid vaccines in the real world than any new drug that may have gone through the standard TGA as A FULL AND PROPER ASSESSMENT process.

FTFY.

Select to expand quote

kiterboy said..

And more than 70% of these deaths had previous underlying health conditions.

www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/more-than-70-of-covid-19-deaths-had-pre-existing-c

So according to the graph above if you're under 60 & average it out from 0-59 your chance of survival is 99.92%. That's 1 in 1250.

If you have no underlying health conditions you can further reduce risk by 72% therefore your chance of survival on average from age 0-59 is 99.9776%. Let's call it 99.98%. That's 1 in 5000.

In the USA your lifetime odds of dying in a motor vehicle accident is 1 in 107.

In the USA your lifetime odds of dying from opioids is 1 in 92.

Therefore we should be a lot more concerned about dying in a car or dying from a painkiller.

Drive safe people!

*Your lifetime odds of dying from being born is 100%.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
and have continual nationwide application of these tests. Isolate (lockdown) those who test positive. Follow the epidemiological connections to those exposed and test them to - with personal isolation mandates until cleared.

Trouble with that is we're all hoping evolution takes Covid 19 to a less harmful form.

For that to happen it would help if we created an environment where the less harmful mutations have a chance to out-compete the more harmful mutations.

Rather than test and isolate those with mild symptoms should we be sending them back out to soldier on in the workplace? (As we always used to do)

Select to expand quote

kiterboy said..

Mark Lanegan and Natalia Cano survived.

mashable.com/article/tik-tok-covid-parosmia-smell-loss

So did the people who have had "long covid" and share their stories.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/23/omicron-covid-19-long-hauler

Select to expand quote

myscreenname said..

kiterboy said..

Mark Lanegan survived and so did the people who have had "long covid" and share their stories.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/23/omicron-covid-19-long-hauler

Parosmia wouldn't be fun to have for sure. I hope any sufferers of it recover fully!

It's interesting we hear media stories from Long Covid sufferers but none from people who are suffering from vaccine adverse reactions? I don't think many of them are taken very seriously.

Select to expand quote

Flying Dutchman said..
It's interesting we hear media stories from Long Covid sufferers but none from people who are suffering from vaccine adverse reactions? Don't they matter?

Maybe they don't have tik tok accounts, are not very good communicators, or can't make compelling memes.

Select to expand quote

Flying Dutchman said..

It's interesting we hear media stories from Long Covid sufferers but none from people who are suffering from vaccine adverse reactions? Don't they matter?

What a Crock. Google it.
But you might find actual facts and solid Data first.
I would find it interesting to find out how many of the people who are having these adverse reactions are vaccine sceptics.
It maybe Psychosomatic reactions
They believe it will harm them so begin to feel symptoms
A bit like a reverse Placebo

Select to expand quote

IanR said..

What a Crock. Google it.
But you might find actual facts and solid Data first.
I would find it interesting to find out how many of the people who are having these adverse reactions are vaccine sceptics.
It maybe Psychosomatic reactions
They believe it will harm them so begin to feel symptoms
A bit like a reverse Placebo

Haven't met many vaccine sceptics that were lining up to get jabbed.

Select to expand quote

Flying Dutchman said..
Parosmia wouldn't be fun to have for sure. I hope any sufferers of it recover fully!

www.tiktok.com/@hannahbaked/video/7038312733141372165

In the limited data gathered about the topic, parosmia appears to primarily affect young people, with young women specifically suffering the most. A study of post-COVID-19 people who now have parosmia found that of its 268 respondents, 73.5% identified as female, and 70.1% were under the age of 30.

You only need to look back in time, in this case 9 months to see how information can change. And this from the Director of the CDC one of the premier health agencies in the world.

If they can get it this wrong, what else are we being told today will be proven false in another 9 months?

"Vaccinated people do not carry the virus, don't get sick"

"Essentially vaccines block you from getting & giving the virus"

Can't say these statements have aged well.

For the unvaccinated read page 7


www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/covid-19-surveillance-report-20211211.pdf

Select to expand quote

IFocus said..
For the unvaccinated read page 7


www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/covid-19-surveillance-report-20211211.pdf

What's the definition of fully vaccinated? 2 or 3 doses?

They need to overlay the vaccines adverse events on the vaccinated side with a cumulative number so you get a better idea of the risk profile.

Whats the definition of an expert antivaxer ?
The qualifications are a Youtube, twitter, facebook and rumble account. lol
With these qualifications you can give health advice to all on Seabreeze.

But not on Bitcoin, sozz

Select to expand quote

IFocus said..
For the unvaccinated read page 7


www.health.nsw.gov.au/Infectious/covid-19/Documents/covid-19-surveillance-report-20211211.pdf

Im sure the CTers will bend that data to suit their cause.

Select to expand quote

lotofwind said..
Whats the definition of an expert antivaxer ?
The qualifications are a Youtube, twitter, facebook and rumble account. lol
With these qualifications you can give health advice to all on Seabreeze.

But not on Bitcoin, sozz

Please tell us what we're supposed to think when the leading experts themselves have Youtube, Twitter and Facebook accounts...?

You'd think if you guys really believed what you are preaching, you'd be trying to do something more about it other than spending hundreds of hours and posts over the last year trying to spread your propaganda on a windsport forum.??
I didnt think there would ever be a more annoying small minority group than the vegans, but I stand corrected.
At least the vegans get out in the community and try and do something about their beliefs and not target a water sports forum.

Please dont say you guys are hard core vegan as well, that would be too funny. but would explain a lot. lol

There is little argument that getting vaccinated doesn't help you from severe disease & death from Covid short-term. The interesting issue will come next year when you are told to get your 4th & 5th jabs because the 3rd jab doesn't protect you anymore. There's increasing evidence that immune systems can get fatigued & potentially fail with too many jabs. That's a risk of this strategy.

I'll admit it's a fringe view right now but gaining traction is the idea that vaccinating in the middle of a pandemic could lead to vaccine resistant strains. There are a few notable experts in the field of immunology, virology, vaccinology & evolutionary biology that are being vocal about this issue. If it does happen, then anyone vaccinated will not be protected & could potentially suffer reduced natural immunity due to having taken too many vaccines. Ironically, the 99% of unvaccinated that survive an infection could potentially survive a future new strain better because they would gain broader protection through a prior virus response.

I don't think anybody truly knows where this is going to go. If anything this past 2 years should have taught us this pandemic is evolving & the future is uncertain.

I am not a medically trained Dr. I have no medical or scientific qualifications. I just have an inquisitive mind & like to research topics I am interested in. Hence to simply label someone who goes against the mainstream on this issue as an 'anti-vaxxer' is simplistic & narrow minded.

There is a lot of value in vaccines. It has saved millions of lives throughout history. We are in the middle of an experiment; mass vaccinations in the middle of a pandemic. The results of this experiment are yet to be written.

Select to expand quote

lotofwind said..

You'd think if you guys really believed what you are preaching, you'd be trying to do something more about it other than spending hundreds of hours and posts over the last year trying to spread your propaganda on a windsport forum.??
I didnt think there would ever be a more annoying small minority group than the vegans, but I stand corrected.
At least the vegans get out in the community and try and do something about their beliefs and not target a water sports forum.

Please dont say you guys are hard core vegan as well, that would be too funny. but would explain a lot. lol

I'm not comfortable to try to do something more than posting on Seabreeze because I'm not 100% confident my views & opinions are correct. We share a love of surf sports & I thought there were enough intelligent people on here to have an interesting discussion about it.

As for vegans, if they annoy you because they are making a concerted effort to cause less harm to animals & the environment then you might want to wonder why that triggers you. Out of all the things that could annoy you in this world that surely would have to be towards the bottom of the list.