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lotofwind said..
I thought the antivaxer, gov. world de-population conspiracy theory thread got locked ? 3 times ? months ago ?
Did the CT crew get banned from facebook and twitter, now returning to try again with their propaganda.

They remind me of the religious people that come knocking on your door trying to convert you to their beliefs.

There wasn't an antivaxxer conspiracy thread. There was a thread on Covid where people were discussing the subject. It was closed because there was a lot of nastiness and name calling and the moderators saw fit, rightly so, to close it down.

It looks like you are trying to do the same thing again.

Can't get to Bitcoin, but .....
I just heard on the radio that somebody found a species of millipede in WA that actually has 1000 feet. Then they said that millipede means 1000 feet.
Wouldn't that be kilopede?

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japie said..
I agree, the point of trials is to figure out what is and isn't effective.

Double blind trials however necessitate withholding the medicine from a section of sick patients which is where the ethical consideration intervenes. If that were the only way to establish the fact then it could be argued otherwise. But they are not.

There are now so, so many trial results available which show irrefutable evidence that quite a large array of medicines are effective. Nearly all of them are used in conjunction with others.

.

It sounds like what you were asking was not 'how' but 'why' someone would do a double-blind trial.

Clearly, its to prove if something is effective or not and presumably roll it out once it has been proven.

Are there really trial results that can show the treatment is effective? You would argue that without a double-blind trial, that nothing is proven.

You are saying that medicines are used with others. Which ones are effective? One? A particular combination? All of them? Do any of the people die? How do you qualify their death if you have nothing to compare it against?

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FormulaNova said..

japie said..
I agree, the point of trials is to figure out what is and isn't effective.

Double blind trials however necessitate withholding the medicine from a section of sick patients which is where the ethical consideration intervenes. If that were the only way to establish the fact then it could be argued otherwise. But they are not.

There are now so, so many trial results available which show irrefutable evidence that quite a large array of medicines are effective. Nearly all of them are used in conjunction with others.

.

It sounds like what you were asking was not 'how' but 'why' someone would do a double-blind trial.

Clearly, its to prove if something is effective or not and presumably roll it out once it has been proven.

Are there really trial results that can show the treatment is effective? You would argue that without a double-blind trial, that nothing is proven.

You are saying that medicines are used with others. Which ones are effective? One? A particular combination? All of them? Do any of the people die? How do you qualify their death if you have nothing to compare it against?

A double blind study is definitely not the only way to prove the efficacy of a medicine. Many scientists argue that by far the better way is to do a meta analysis of a combination of all trials.

Which has been done. The information is there.

Hydroxychloroquine is one of those medicines. There is a massive controversy with regard to it and the controversy is not about it's value as an anti viral but about the way in which the information was suppressed. Both the New England Journal of Medicine and the Lancet published fraudulent results of fraudulent trials which they were subsequently forced to retract. Well after the hullabaloo after that idiot Trump let his ego make the statement that HCQ was showing promise and every Orange Man Bad publication had had a field day with it.

The Lancet and the NEJM are highly esteemed publications. Why did they publish something which was transparently fraudulent?

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Mr Milk said..
Can't get to Bitcoin, but .....
I just heard on the radio that somebody found a species of millipede in WA that actually has 1000 feet. Then they said that millipede means 1000 feet.
Wouldn't that be kilopede?

That is the most factually and interesting thing said in this bitcoin thread so far.
What if it had only one foot?
Would that mean its a unipede ?

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japie said..

lotofwind said..
I thought the antivaxer, gov. world de-population conspiracy theory thread got locked ? 3 times ? months ago ?
Did the CT crew get banned from facebook and twitter, now returning to try again with their propaganda.

They remind me of the religious people that come knocking on your door trying to convert you to their beliefs.

There wasn't an antivaxxer conspiracy thread. There was a thread on Covid where people were discussing the subject. It was closed because there was a lot of nastiness and name calling and the moderators saw fit, rightly so, to close it down.

It looks like you are trying to do the same thing again.

I guess if you believe the conspiracy theories are true,
then in the CT'ers mind it is fact and not a conspiracy theory as its actually happening.......no theory or conspiracy.
So in some of the links and youtube vids that say all this "corona stuff is all done on purpose to de-populate the planet"
in your mind thats not a conspiracy theory, because you are awake to the real facts.

But anyway, this is a mock covid thread that Harrow was having a joke with.
If you want a serious covid discussion, please move to the bitcoin thread.

To be clear, nobody was supposed to reply to either of these threads. You were just meant to smile to yourself, and maybe hit the green thumb. They were a joke! (I guess they still are, just a different kind. )

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Harrow said..
To be clear, nobody was supposed to reply to either of these threads. You were just meant to smile to yourself, and maybe hit the green thumb. They were a joke! (I guess they still are, just a different kind. )

You have been gotten to by them. There is no need for you to acknowledge that as its clear as day. You are now one of them. All intended to add to the disinformation and divert our attention from the real changes behind the scenes.

I saw the truth when you said 'green thumb'. No one green thumbs anymore.

But you can red thumb now,
but only if you are double vaxed and wear a mask.
"They" are now 1 step closer to total control of our freedom to thumb.

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..

eppo said..

Dear me, you guys really really have lost the reasoned plot.

If you took the time to listen to a 3 hour articulated nuanced conversation you may in the end feel like the clown yourself. In such a long verbal conversation you can't hide your "clownness".


A highly intelligent, highly published, extremely driven medical professional who actually treats covid patients, which includes vaccinated and non vaccinated people.

and he's anything but an anti Vaxer.But highlights the issues surrounding the entire approach to covid which in the end has and is costing lives.


just good science and an informative person to listen to.

if he took the time to do just *one* large scale double-blind randomised clinical trial then i would have all the time in the world to listen to him.

Previous link was not a detailed summary but halfway down summarises this esteemed doctor.

sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-covid-19-vaccine-holocaust-the-latest-antivaccine-messaging/

What like the double blind clinical trials
of the vaccine ? Honestly! Do you actually read what some of you write ?

People were and are dying. Their needed to be some of treatment protocols to reduce hospitalisation rates because by the time they got there - there chance of survival was not great. It's not a one size fits all idea either - it all depends on so many factors and treatment needs to address this - like any infectious disease . this is no different


how about you just listen first - listen to three hours of this guy, instead of throwing out byte size opinion pieces generated by what's being thrown around on the internet. most of it probably by Russian based trolls and such.


If you are a true advocate of science you may be pleasantly surprised. This guy is all about data and the science


Or I call out all your BS trolling and arguing for arguments sake. He truly has a good grip on the mechanics of this virus and it's pathology.

I am going to say this (and say no More because I really just want to pass on something for the first time that made sense to me), a lot of you will not be so smug spewing out what is being thrown around the net when covid finnally hits here like the rest of the world. And it will. And your vaccinations will do SFA when patients need actual medical treatment.

Vaccinations are just one part of a complex solution to a complex problem.

ps I'm vaccinated - I'm not an anti vax quack. But my ears prick up when I hear good honest science (maybe because I have three degrees in science based fields) And the truth is an on going evolution and I think this guy is part of that evolution. It was career suicide what he done, but he can't ignore the science - data.

Listen and learn.

Is there a transcript of the talk available? I'm sure I read at least twice as fast as anybody talks, and that will cut the time wasted in half.

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eppo said..
I am going to say this (and say no More because I really just want to pass on something for the first time that made sense to me), a lot of you will not be so smug spewing out what is being thrown around the net when covid finnally hits here like the rest of the world. And it will. And your vaccinations will do SFA when patients need actual medical treatment.

Vaccinations are just one part of a complex solution to a complex problem.

ps I'm vaccinated - I'm not an anti vax quack. But my ears prick up when I hear good honest science (maybe because I have three degrees in science based fields) And the truth is an on going evolution and I think this guy is part of that evolution. It was career suicide what he done, but he can't ignore the science - data.

Listen and learn.

I have started listening to this podcast and think I am an hour or hour and a half into it.

Straight away I have reservations as he veers onto clear comments that he believes its a conspiracy, and then veers back onto science, and then pops back into the CT camp again without any clear reason why,

He states the various efficacy rates of vaccines, yet you are saying that they will make no difference?

It would be nice if I could take notes, but I listen to this as I am driving, but to me there seems to be a few things that don't sound right, or ignoring normal human behavior in favor of it being a conspiracy.

He's actually a good speaker and its easy to listen to, but I feel there is a predisposition to believing its a CT and he pushes that way to try and align with it being one.

For those that think hydroxychloroquine is the answer or ivermectin, I think its clear that they are needed to be used before infection rather than after,

As an example he mentions that Australia 'banned' hydroxychloroquine, implying some conspiracy, yet to my mind it was because the government didn't want people to jump on it as the solution to the problem.

There is also some mention of masks not making any difference, and then the suggestion that they do actually reduce infection rates.

I think if you already had a CT mindset, you could listen to this and think 'yeah, I agree' and 'I thought so', but from a non-CT viewpoint I think the logic stacks up without any nefarious agenda.

I do want to check on his data somehow though as he says Bangladesh had no cases of Covid because of their treatment. I just can't bring myself to believe that.

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Mr Milk said..
Is there a transcript of the talk available? I'm sure I read at least twice as fast as anybody talks, and that will cut the time wasted in half.

I think you can speed up spotify, or at least you could with audible. Its good enough listening while you drive as its not boring at all.

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eFormulaNova said..

I do want to check on his data somehow though as he says Bangladesh had no cases of Covid because of their treatment. I just can't bring myself to believe that.

MSN has coronavirus information on the Edge browser default homepage.
It says Bangladesh has 1.58M cases and 28 000 deaths.

Anyone want to take a guess at what the new daily cases will peak at in each state? (Hang on, is this the right thread?)

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Harrow said..
Anyone want to take a guess at what the new daily cases will peak at in each state? (Hang on, is this the right thread?)

Yes, WA will peak at 1, and the NSW will peak at 10,000 a day.

I just can't but help think its political now and the pollies just want to open up to show they are competent. There are a few places around that world that are struggling with case loads of Omicron. I am not sure if the ICU cases are similar to Delta or not.

There was also something in this podcast where the guys says something like 'in Australia, the vaccine trial resulted in all participants being HIV positive', which had me frothing about how wrong that is. He then goes on to say that it was just indicating HIV, but they were not actually positive. No kidding! But its just the sort of thing that some people jump on and assume it means what it sounds like.

He also points out, that the vaccine triggers a lot of things that the actual virus does because of the spike protein. I am not sure that's actually true either. I understand that the spike protein is created/simulated to train the body to recognise that is something to fight, but I am not sure that's the part that creates the problems with the virus.

At the same time he goes on to say that the heart problems caused by vaccines are a problem, but ignores that the same heart problems are also created by the virus, but in higher percentages.

I think he also goes on about how it doesn't seem likely that vaccine manufacturers can create vaccines so quickly that can create things using RNA (but not in those words). The implication that it must be a setup in order to create them so quickly. I think his language even suggests 'modifies DNA' which is not true at all as far as I know.
These RNA vaccines don't modify DNA and just use RNA to create the spike protein. How hard is that to understand, but this guy seems to bill himself as an expert on these things.

Maybe a transcript of this interview would be easier to pick apart as I am sure there are a lot of misleading things in it, and a clear bias towards someone coordinating this pandemic.

Makes me wonder if he is one of these authors that just releases lots of articles, just for the sake of being the most published, but is not necessarily good at his subject?

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FormulaNova said.. I think his language even suggests 'modifies DNA' which is not true at all as far as I know.
These RNA vaccines don't modify DNA and just use RNA to create the spike protein. How hard is that to understand, but this guy seems to bill himself as an expert on these things.

Yup. Thats the biggest lie the 'anti' mob tells... all because a couple of ignorant types thought it acts upon or changes DNA. Which it clearly does not yet they all spout off about it. When they start losing that argument, they then say its "new and untested" technology.
Vaccines that work in that manner were first touted in 1995 and many have been made. So wrong again.

Eppo. Do you mean this Peter Mccullough?

This lawsuit by his previous employer might take some of the shine off his reputation

www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93936

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FormulaNova said..
Memes. I need memes.

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Mark _australia said..

FormulaNova said.. I think his language even suggests 'modifies DNA' which is not true at all as far as I know.
These RNA vaccines don't modify DNA and just use RNA to create the spike protein. How hard is that to understand, but this guy seems to bill himself as an expert on these things.

Yup. Thats the biggest lie the 'anti' mob tells... all because a couple of ignorant types thought it acts upon or changes DNA. Which it clearly does not yet they all spout off about it. When they start losing that argument, they then say its "new and untested" technology.
Vaccines that work in that manner were first touted in 1995 and many have been made. So wrong again.

I took the new DNA vaccines. They were developed in the hope of reducing side effects thought to be caused by the additives required for the RNA vaccines.
I've had chest and abdominal pain for almost two weeks and it took over a week for the swelling at the injection sites to settle; oddly this doesn't meet the trial criteria of a noteworthy event.
I'll go for an ECG tomorrow but as the pain isn't severe there's unlikely to be any visible impairment.
I was opposed to medical coersion before the trial and the only reason I still recommend people get the jabs is because whatever damage they do to your health is still less than the government will do if you don't do what they ****ing say.

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psychojoe said..

Mark _australia said..

FormulaNova said.. I think his language even suggests 'modifies DNA' which is not true at all as far as I know.
These RNA vaccines don't modify DNA and just use RNA to create the spike protein. How hard is that to understand, but this guy seems to bill himself as an expert on these things.

Yup. Thats the biggest lie the 'anti' mob tells... all because a couple of ignorant types thought it acts upon or changes DNA. Which it clearly does not yet they all spout off about it. When they start losing that argument, they then say its "new and untested" technology.
Vaccines that work in that manner were first touted in 1995 and many have been made. So wrong again.

I took the new DNA vaccines. They were developed in the hope of reducing side effects thought to be caused by the additives required for the RNA vaccines.
I've had chest and abdominal pain for almost two weeks and it took over a week for the swelling at the injection sites to settle; oddly this doesn't meet the trial criteria of a noteworthy event.
I'll go for an ECG tomorrow but as the pain isn't severe there's unlikely to be any visible impairment.
I was opposed to medical coersion before the trial and the only reason I still recommend people get the jabs is because whatever damage they do to your health is still less than the government will do if you don't do what they ****ing say.

I can't tell if your being sarcastic, but if you do get the ECG...Let us know how you go, I'm having chest and abdominal pains also, nothing severe but often catch myself clutching my chest for the last week and a half or so. Got the second jab 2 weeks ago.

For side effects that are supposedly very rare, I personally know of 4 otherwise very heathy people that have had heart issues after receiving the experimental treatments. And know of at least another 4 indirectly.

For vary rare side effects I wouldn't expect to know of more than one, and not directly either.

I bet a lot of you on here would know people who have experienced heart issues or other similar level conditions after the fact.

Its cold-comfort to those that have suffered from any side effect of the vaccines, but it makes you wonder what things were like with the Spanish flu. People just dieing in days with no real treatment. If you were lucky you survived, if not, you were one of the millions that just died.

How did the Spanish Flu resolve itself? Did it end up in a strain that people were immune to, or a strain that was relatively benign?

Interestingly the first round of Spanish flu in (northern hemisphere) spring in 1918 was quite benign. The second strain in fall (autumn) was the one that wiped out 5% of the world's population, mostly in a 12 week period.

Although reasonably fatal as it is, i wonder whether that possibility of a much deadlier second wave was the drive for such a large public health effort.

once the Omicron-Zeta hybrid hits I guess we'll see!

I know 2 directly with adverse reactions to the vaccine with one of my best friends suffering heart pains for the past 3-4 months just after his second jab. He's only 41. My other mate is late 30s. When they both went to the doctor complaining of chest pains just after the second dose of Pfizer both Doctors said it's not related to the vaccine. Both of them were completely healthy before never had any issues and within a week of getting the second vaccine they get heart pains that's been lasting for months. Seems like an amazing coincidence.

I know about 4 people indirectly that have had issues. Vaccines have helped lots of people however the adverse reactions are more common than what's reported. With constant boosters on the horizon I wonder how many more people will get issues.

And then I get this text message from my mate the other day. Suffice to say, I'm not rushing out to get jabbed with multiple doses of a vaccine with no long term studies associated with it.

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Flying Dutchman said..
I know 2 directly with adverse reactions to the vaccine with one of my best friends suffering heart pains for the past 3-4 months just after his second jab. He's only 41. My other mate is late 30s. When they both went to the doctor complaining of chest pains just after the second dose of Pfizer both Doctors said it's not related to the vaccine. Both of them were completely healthy before never had any issues and within a week of getting the second vaccine they get heart pains that's been lasting for months. Seems like an amazing coincidence.

How did they get on?

I went to a chest pain clinic a few years ago, well before this pandemic began. I had been getting a steady pain in my chest for a few weeks and finally decided to mention it to the GP. The GP wasted no time and sent me directly to the chest pain clinic where they kept me for the day, checking things out. Most of that day was spent waiting after they initially checked me out and found no cause for urgency, and then ultimately no problems at all.

Based on this, only about 3 years ago, your friends would have been/should have been sent directly to a similar clinic. Did they?

If they did, then I am assuming that they got checked out and any sign of the heart problems associated with Pfizer was also checked.

So, did they?

I am not discounting this at all, but I think they need to be checked out if they haven't already.

Not really related at all, but I have met a few people now cycling that seem to have similar pains in the chest caused by some sort of muscle problem/imbalance. At least that's what I am assuming mine is as nothing else was found.

A few people would probably still get chest pains even if they were given a placebo.

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FormulaNova said..

Flying Dutchman said..
I know 2 directly with adverse reactions to the vaccine with one of my best friends suffering heart pains for the past 3-4 months just after his second jab. He's only 41. My other mate is late 30s. When they both went to the doctor complaining of chest pains just after the second dose of Pfizer both Doctors said it's not related to the vaccine. Both of them were completely healthy before never had any issues and within a week of getting the second vaccine they get heart pains that's been lasting for months. Seems like an amazing coincidence.

How did they get on?

I went to a chest pain clinic a few years ago, well before this pandemic began. I had been getting a steady pain in my chest for a few weeks and finally decided to mention it to the GP. The GP wasted no time and sent me directly to the chest pain clinic where they kept me for the day, checking things out. Most of that day was spent waiting after they initially checked me out and found no cause for urgency, and then ultimately no problems at all.

Based on this, only about 3 years ago, your friends would have been/should have been sent directly to a similar clinic. Did they?

If they did, then I am assuming that they got checked out and any sign of the heart problems associated with Pfizer was also checked.

So, did they?

I am not discounting this at all, but I think they need to be checked out if they haven't already.

Not really related at all, but I have met a few people now cycling that seem to have similar pains in the chest caused by some sort of muscle problem/imbalance. At least that's what I am assuming mine is as nothing else was found.

Hey FormulaNova,

They both got told by the Dr they may have Pericarditis and were given a few tests at a medical clinic that resulted in nothing overly conclusive and then were both given an anti-inflammatory medicine that I can't remember the name of. The Dr's said "You'll be fine, it will go away". Well fast forward & one is still battling it 4 months later and the other one has had it niggling for months too.

I don't know all the details I would have to ask them specifically however a number of tests where conducted including measuring troponin levels.

Now the government has just announced they will offer discounted MRI to help diagnose anyone suffering Myocarditis or Pericarditis associated with the vaccine. Before it was a very expensive procedure and now with medicare you can get it done for $855.20.