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Flying Dutchman said..

It's difficult to understand exactly how Anthony Fauci has any credibility whatsoever never mind being touted as a, (or the), world's expert on health.

Despite having had literally billions of dollars at his disposal over the years the USA ranks 74th for health outcomes.

74th!

He is a real achiever!

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FormulaNova said..

'Waffle' is probably what you think he is doing when he is explaining things. If you think that is 'waffle', maybe you need to actually listen to the video Eppo posted a reference to. It sounds like you haven't listened to that yourself if you are complaining about 1 hour 3 minutes of this one. Honestly, tell me if you have watched and listened to that first video that Eppo posted?

I will listen to both again when I do some driving.

I don't mind Zogg. I do agree he waffles around the point a lot but generally sticks to the facts and isn't afraid to call out the rubbish on both sides.

This recent discussion between 3 experts including him is probably the best. They are definately challenging the gov overreach beyond what the science is telling us, especially with regard to young people and boosters and how ineffective masks really are.

www.facebook.com/ZDoggMD/posts/452483146546491

There was a discussion on transmission of the virus. It is pretty much accepted now that double vaccination is probably only 30% to 50% effective in reducing transmisiion for Delta and drops of significantly in a few months. Omicron will be even less.

Vaccination now is purely for reduction of severe illness, which it does well and boosters don't help that much. Recent data is strongly indicating a combination of double vaccination and natural immunity is the virus killer, providing up to 1000% better protection than either alone. Hence the shift recently by many like QLD's new CHO to we are all going to get it, just get vaccinated and get on with life.

EDIT: 5,000 cases in QLD today. 6 people in hospital, no one in ICU. Says it all really. Omicron is a game changer. Lets just stop the rubbish and let people live thier lives.

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Paradox said..
Recent data is strongly indicating a combination of double vaccination and natural immunity is the virus killer, providing up to 1000% better protection than either alone. Hence the shift recently by many like QLD's new CHO to we are all going to get it, just get vaccinated and get on with life.

That is interesting. Do you have a pointer to where I can read about this?

How does one get double vaccination and natural immunity anyway? Do you wait until after you have had Covid and then get double vaccinated? Do you get double vaccinated and then hope they fail and you get Covid to get your natural immunity?

A link to that sort of data would be interesting to see.

As for Omicron being a game changer, that was the feeling from day one, but everyone still wants to see the data to know if it really is a benign version. We don't even need to experiment with it here, we can wait for places like South Africa to have mature results see how they end up. There will be plenty of places around the world where Omicron will tell us whether it is the solution or not.

But... the kicker is that if another variant evolves in the meantime that is equally or more transmissable, and is more deadly, we would be screwed if we have already thrown our hats into the air, yelled "Yippee!" and pretended it was over.

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FormulaNova said..

Paradox said..
Recent data is strongly indicating a combination of double vaccination and natural immunity is the virus killer, providing up to 1000% better protection than either alone. Hence the shift recently by many like QLD's new CHO to we are all going to get it, just get vaccinated and get on with life.

How does one get double vaccination and natural immunity anyway? Do you wait until after you have had Covid and then get double vaccinated? Do you get double vaccinated and then hope they fail and you get Covid to get your natural immunity?

Australia is like 90%+ double vaccinated. Who do you think is contracting and spreading it? I don't think it matters which one you get first for the immunity. Less risky for most if you get vaccinated first though I would suggest. Do a search on hybrid immunity. There is a fair bit coming out on it.

www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/12/18/super-immunity-from-breakthrough-infection-after-covid-19-vaccination-heres-what-this-study-said/?sh=31cdc45d6a3c

Below study suggests a 67% decrease in hospitalisations with Omicron. Reduction of ICU chance seems to be even more as many hospitalisations are precautionary.

www.skynews.com.au/world-news/new-research-from-scotland-and-south-africa-shows-much-lower-risk-of-hospitalisation-with-omicron-than-earlier-variants/news-story/2fbfe70bca19e5f62fd1359e91725974?fbclid=IwAR2FcFjMksfnLvGXp1riy5En6fkE9c6SVkQeQu_3BSGKUEfjGVb5zrbrr2s

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FormulaNova said..
Hey... you might be onto something. Flying Dutchman is clearly in a group of people that are over-represented with people suffering from myocarditis or pericarditis. That is not normal. It is not natural. Obviously there is something that bonds them together. Is it a medical condition? Is it a political grouping that someone is conspiring against to try and kill them off?

Have they been experimenting with their own health, and the vaccine just makes it worse? Hmmm... there could be thousands of reasons.

That last guy, ZDoggMD seems to suggest that as most people get the problem after the second dose that it might be a problem with their immune reaction to the vaccine. Me, I think Bill Gates found that these guys didn't register their version of Windows 10.

Seriously mate....with all due respect. Fark off.

These are real people with real conditions. I chat with them often listening to their worries about what to do about it.

These are friends that I knew long before Covid. They took the vaccine in good faith and have been injured by them. Now they are ridiculed by people like you. Imagine how that makes them feel.

Have some empathy don't be a dick.

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Flying Dutchman said..

These are real people with real conditions. I chat with them often listening to their worries about what to do about it.

Just trying to help here.... You trust Jappie.

Maybe PM him, ask him for some common over the counter, censored medications and get a list of vilified doctors that will sort your friends out.

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Flying Dutchman said..

FormulaNova said..
Hey... you might be onto something. Flying Dutchman is clearly in a group of people that are over-represented with people suffering from myocarditis or pericarditis. That is not normal. It is not natural. Obviously there is something that bonds them together. Is it a medical condition? Is it a political grouping that someone is conspiring against to try and kill them off?

Have they been experimenting with their own health, and the vaccine just makes it worse? Hmmm... there could be thousands of reasons.

That last guy, ZDoggMD seems to suggest that as most people get the problem after the second dose that it might be a problem with their immune reaction to the vaccine. Me, I think Bill Gates found that these guys didn't register their version of Windows 10.

Seriously mate....with all due respect. Fark off.

These are real people with real conditions. I chat with them often listening to their worries about what to do about it.

These are friends that I knew long before Covid. They took the vaccine in good faith and have been injured by them. Now they are ridiculed by people like you. Imagine how that makes them feel.

Have some empathy don't be a dick.

That's like asking water not to be wet.

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myscreenname said..

Flying Dutchman said..

These are real people with real conditions. I chat with them often listening to their worries about what to do about it.

Just trying to help here.... You trust Jappie.

Maybe PM him, ask him for some common over the counter, censored medications and get a list of vilified doctors that will sort your friends out.

That's an utterly vapid comment.

Covid not only infects people, it seems to infect websites.

It's wiped out FormulaNovas's post.

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Flying Dutchman said..
Covid not only infects people, it seems to infect websites.

It's wiped out myscreenname's post.

I think your attention to detail has made a mistake. It was my post that I deleted. I forgot it was real people at the end of the day and not the usual conspiritards, so I deleted it. Self-censoring is a thing we can all do.

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FormulaNova said..

Flying Dutchman said..
Covid not only infects people, it seems to infect websites.

It's wiped out myscreenname's post.

I think your attention to detail has made a mistake. It was my post that I deleted. I forgot it was real people at the end of the day and not the usual conspiritards, so I deleted it. Self-censoring is a thing we can all do.

Cheers, I edited my post.

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myscreenname said..

Just trying to help here.... You trust Jappie.

Maybe PM him, ask him for some common over the counter, censored medications and get a list of vilified doctors that will sort your friends out.

Wow. How pathetic. Rather than trying to not help, go get some help.

m.theepochtimes.com/outpatient-treatments-for-covid-19-reviewed_4177734.html?slsuccess=1

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FormulaNova said..
Self-censoring is a thing we can all do.

You should do more.

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japie said..

Flying Dutchman said..

It's difficult to understand exactly how Anthony Fauci has any credibility whatsoever never mind being touted as a, (or the), world's expert on health.

Despite having had literally billions of dollars at his disposal over the years the USA ranks 74th for health outcomes.

74th!

He is a real achiever!

Nothing like commentary coming from a real keyboard warrior antivax achiever like you

Look what you started Harrow.

Any news on your sister and her friends Harrow?

I just had a 50yo pilot friend of mine test positive for covid. No symptoms whatsoever.

It's only one person, but it makes you wonder how many asymptomatic people are out there. My complete guess is 10x the official number.

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Paradox said..
I just had a 50yo pilot friend of mine test positive for covid. No symptoms whatsoever.

It's only one person, but it makes you wonder how many asymptomatic people are out there. My complete guess is 10x the official number.

A year ago an Australian study claimed 17%.

www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi


One that just came out 2 weeks ago claims 40.5%.

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2787098?utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_term=121421

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Flying Dutchman said..

Paradox said..
I just had a 50yo pilot friend of mine test positive for covid. No symptoms whatsoever.

It's only one person, but it makes you wonder how many asymptomatic people are out there. My complete guess is 10x the official number.

A year ago an Australian study claimed 17%.

www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi


One that just came out 2 weeks ago claims 40.5%.

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2787098?utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_term=121421

Data was to Jan 21. So almost 12 months old. So little Delta and no Omi. I still think many multiples with Omicron.

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Paradox said..

Flying Dutchman said..

Paradox said..
I just had a 50yo pilot friend of mine test positive for covid. No symptoms whatsoever.

It's only one person, but it makes you wonder how many asymptomatic people are out there. My complete guess is 10x the official number.

A year ago an Australian study claimed 17%.

www1.racgp.org.au/newsgp/clinical/australian-study-determines-true-asymptomatic-covi


One that just came out 2 weeks ago claims 40.5%.

jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2787098?utm_source=For_The_Media&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=ftm_links&utm_term=121421

Data was to Jan 21. So almost 12 months old. So little Delta and no Omi. I still think many multiples with Omicron.

Ah true, well whatever the true number is it seems like a large proportion of infected & covid recovered people walking around not even knowing they have or had Covid.

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Paradox said..
I just had a 50yo pilot friend of mine test positive for covid. No symptoms whatsoever.

It's only one person, but it makes you wonder how many asymptomatic people are out there. My complete guess is 10x the official number.

I've mentioned this study before, and searching for it again I found that there's an update (yes it's early 2020 but it is what it is):
www.sfgate.com/news/editorspicks/article/Santa-Clara-antibody-study-revised-Stanford-death-15263047.php#

"infections are underreported by a factor of 30" so down from 50 times plus of the original paper.

The testing of the vaccinated, the asymptomatic and people with sniffles is psychotic.

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FormulaNova said..
How does one get double vaccination and natural immunity anyway?

Look to Israel. They have studies of the double vaccinated who had "breakthrough" infections. IIRC it was a study of front line health care providers; approx 1/3 had breakthrough infections, 2/3 of those had no symptoms and 1/3 had mild symptoms. None required hospitalization... insert joke about soft western wimps, queue whinging about CTers...

So vaccinated then infected, possibly re-infected. We all still get colds, after all...

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Flying Dutchman said.
They took the vaccine in good faith and have been injured by them.

The data is in -- if you're under 25 and male, your risk of myocarditis is higher with the mRNA vaccines than being exposed to COVID-19, as is your risk of dying.

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Paradox said..
I just had a 50yo pilot friend of mine test positive for covid. No symptoms whatsoever.

It's only one person, but it makes you wonder how many asymptomatic people are out there. My complete guess is 10x the official number.

Got wonder why get tested? The testing lines are long and they will just keep you home anyway if you test positive. Unless a test is required for work or travel treat it like a bad flu, stay home and get over it. And when you feel better, get back on the water.

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Flying Dutchman said..
Ah true, well whatever the true number is it seems like a large proportion of infected & covid recovered people walking around not even knowing they have or had Covid.

There are probably many thousands COVID infected people in Vic and NSW who are asymptomatic who are not bothering with testing. Which is demonstrating vaccines are working.

What is the benefit of a test or checking in to a retail outlet now anyway? The testing stations are overwhelmed with travellers and if you are found to be positive then you have to isolate and have a bunch of new rules applied. Virus will be everywhere buy end of Jan.

I think many people are thinking I'm fully vaxxed what's the point in checking in, isolating and testing.

80% of unvaccinated are in ICU in NSW. Their choice!

In Singapore they have started charging unvaccinated for their hospital stays. Unlikely to happen here.

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/09/singapore-to-start-charging-covid-patients-who-are-unvaccinated-by-choice

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myscreenname said..
There are probably many thousands COVID infected people in Vic and NSW who are asymptomatic who are not bothering with testing. Which is demonstrating vaccines are working.

No, it isn't demonstrating anything about the 'vaccines'.

In all probability, there were thousands of asymptomatic people getting around and untested before the experimental treatments were rolled out.

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kiterboy said..
No, it isn't demonstrating anything about the 'vaccines'.

In all probability, there were thousands of asymptomatic people getting around and untested before the experimental treatments were rolled out.

Hahaha, haven't you got a dragon to feed?

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myscreenname said..
80% of unvaccinated are in ICU in NSW. Their choice!

Got a source for your 80% figure?

Currently it's more like around 66% according to Sky News link below.

NSW has a population of 8,166,000.

NSW unvaccinated population is 6.5%.

Therefore around 530,790 people in NSW are unvaccinated.

On 27 December there were 34 unvaccinated people in ICU out of 52 total with Covid.

(I'll be conservative and say at least 80% of those patients in NSW ICU would've had at least one underlying health condition even though this report from the USA states that 93.7% of ICU patients had at least one underlying health condition. If you have underlying health conditions then sure, get vaccinated, probably makes sense.)

www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2021/21_0123.htm

Out of the unvaccinated NSW population of 530,790 the percentage that is currently not in ICU is 99.999936%.

Therefore the percentage of unvaccinated people in NSW that is currently in ICU is 0.000064%.

For the remaining vaccinated population, what do you think are the chances for getting an adverse reaction to the vaccine?

Would it be conceivable the chances are slightly more than 0.000064% or 1 in 15,611?

Source: www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/coronavirus/majority-of-nsw-covid-patients-in-icu-unvaccinated/video/9e519c9a19f51ffbb11841ea357fdd22

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Kamikuza said..
The data is in -- if you're under 25 and male, your risk of myocarditis is higher with the mRNA vaccines than being exposed to COVID-19, as is your risk of dying.

To be specific, in that age group, and especially mid to late teens, if you do not have comorbidities your chance of being hospitalised with Myocarditis after the second dose of mRNA is higher than being hospitalised with COVID.

It seems myocarditis is a relatively high occurance in COVID cases but is very mild and usually is just a side symptom noted with the other normal mild symptoms. Most do not need hospitalisations as opposed to the vaccine generated cases where 95% do require hospitalisation.