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philn said..

FormulaNova said..

japie said..

FormulaNova said..

remery said..
...
Conspiracy theorizing has long been favored by Populists, who are almost invariably anti-elitist, and therefore generally anti-intellectual as well. Because conspiracy theorists almost always wish to see conspiracies exposed, they are typically quite dedicated in their search for evidence relevant to their favourite conspiracy theory and are usually able to overwhelm philosophers with a deluge of evidence in favour of that theory.

I was a bit surprised yesterday. Someone who is normally relatively quiet tried to steer every conversation to Trump versus Biden debates about American politics. Luckily no one else in this social group cares about American politics and ignored him. I was surprised about how vocal he was.

We live in Australia right? Do we really care who the President is in the USA?

Why is it that these guys gravitate towards US politics? Is it because they get wrapped up in the same type of people and these people are based in the US and send content and memes all about US politics? I am surprised about the memes we get here in funny images thread. I would have to understand US politics to even begin to understand them, let alone think they are 'funny'.

You're right of course. American politics should only be of any concern to countries that host a US military base. Can't think why anyone should be watching it here in Australia.

Yeah, you are probably right. I will keep it in mind next time I vote in US elections.

Oh, that's right. We have no way of influencing American politics because clearly we can't vote in their elections. I guess it must be because of all the memes then.

I wonder if Americans sit there pondering Australian political landscapes, because they are allies and have a base here and all that.

Nope, we are so arrogant and have our heads so far up our own behinds that we don't care about Australian politics.

Do you really need to though? At a high level it might be interesting, but generally what we do over here doesn't matter too much. I think generally agreements between countries are made at a diplomatic level anyway so may not have too much difference based on the party in charge.

I don't care too much about US politics as I am making the assumption that the voters there are taking care of it. If it goes one way too far then I figure the other party needs to get their act together.

Having Aus locals getting all excited about US politics has me dumbfounded. At least the people I have met in person that talk about it generally don't have too much insight into it anyway, so it makes it even more confusing. It is like they are cheerleaders but have nothing beneath the surface to base their beliefs on.

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FormulaNova said.....
At a high level it might be interesting, ...

I'd figured interest in US politics was because it was so funny. Second only to how funny other peoples reactions to it are.

Much like every other subject on this forum.

So... There were reports that thalidomide was causing Birth defects, they were investigated, thalidomide was removed from the market.

What's your point Joe and Japie?

Drug marketed as over the counter anti-nausea (amongst other things) medication in the mid 50s.

It was deemed completely safe to humans because they physically couldn't give enough to animals to determine LD50, and they did not believe it could cross the placenta.

Marketed under wide range of names in many different countries, was produced in UK in 58.

Did not receive approval in the USA because FDA required more safety evidence, due to some of the reports about birth defects. In fact the way this was handled prompted massive changes to approval process to better ensure safety.

Dr McBride published an article in lancet in 1961 and thalidomide was officially withdrawn by the developer and distributors.

Unfortunately, in those few years, more than 10,000 babies are estimated as being affected.

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Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said.....
At a high level it might be interesting, ...

I'd figured interest in US politics was because it was so funny. Second only to how funny other peoples reactions to it are.

Much like every other subject on this forum.

My main gripe is people buying into the bullshido coming out of the USA and trying to rewrite/revise history here.

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D3 said..
What's your point Joe and FD?

Not sure... I never mentioned thalidomide.

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FormulaNova said..

Are you still worried about people being 'anonymous' on here? I have no idea who you are either, and I don't care. You could tell me your name, but it would still mean nothing to me. It shouldn't.

I have met enough people in real life that know my forum username that I sometimes feel embarassed about being vocal on here. I hope that they realise it doesn't matter. It's just chatter, and I would rather have an interesting discussion from the opposite side than sit there and agree on everything.

I don't hug, so you might have to set your expectations a bit lower.

I have actually met PCd in real life. I was curious to see if he was the same in real life as he is here, but I didn't really chat, but I expect he would be.

I can see the reference to me as being one of your best teachers as a backhand, but it's okay, I can learn too

Haha sorry was in one of my funny moods last night. It's all good mate... I've appreciated the banter between all of us, even if we don't all agree on everything.

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Flying Dutchman said..

D3 said..
What's your point Joe and FD?

Not sure... I never mentioned thalidomide.

Apologies,

Meant Japie but my brain is suffering from insufficient sleep

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japie said..

And as I mentioned previously. It was eleven years after it was taken off the market that it was first mentioned in the UK parliament.

I found this newspaper piece interesting.

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/14/-sp-thalidomide-pill-how-evaded-justice

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D3 said..

Flying Dutchman said..

D3 said..
What's your point Joe and FD?

Not sure... I never mentioned thalidomide.

Apologies,

Meant Japie but my brain is suffering from insufficient sleep

No need to pigeon hole me with Japie. If you look closely at the punctuation you'll see I was joking.

Just more evidence of the wisdom of staying off the interwebs when sleep deprived

From The Subversive Lens...

"An Open Letter to Conspiracy Theorists

I'm going to start with the thesis, the punchline, the takeaway:

You're lazy. Intellectually. Spiritually. Socially.

While scientists are methodically studying and attempting to understand clouds, you're glibly arguing about whether the one overhead looks like a panther.

While others are spending decades of their life in school, clinical rotations, and medical practice-you're showing up at the end, briefly squinting your eyes, then pretending you've overturned their tireless work because you see the amorphous outline of something you don't even have the tools to understand.

While others are submitting their beliefs and opinions to the rigors of introspection and falsifiability, you're floating through life as a listless leaf, pretending you're somehow controlling the wind; pretending that wherever you land is truth. It's admittedly uncomfortable being wrong, which is why you concoct nonsensical premises to validate your preexisting beliefs.

You are taking the path of least resistance, then through your intellectual incuriosity, creating palpable resistance for those who are pulling your dead weight. You're sitting on the shoulders of giants, then pretending you can look down at those shaking under the weight of your staggering, willful ignorance.

You're not a conspiracy theorist because you see something others have failed to notice and deduce; you're a conspiracy theorist because you want the benefit and the appearance of having knowledge, wisdom, and understanding-with precisely none of the effort."

Too many words. You would need to write it out in a meme.

To be fair, I am sure evolution has created all sorts of thinkers in society. Everyone will have a niche.

Even flat earthers.... who else are you going to throw to the lions while you climb up the nearest tree?

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FormulaNova said..
Too many words. You would need to write it out in a meme.

To be fair, I am sure evolution has created all sorts of thinkers in society. Everyone will have a niche.

Even flat earthers.... who else are you going to throw to the lions while you climb up the nearest tree?

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FormulaNova said..
Too many words. You would need to write it out in a meme.

To be fair, I am sure evolution has created all sorts of thinkers in society. Everyone will have a niche.

Even flat earthers.... who else are you going to throw to the lions while you climb up the nearest tree?

Halfway thru watching this.

Life expectancy of anti-vaxxers 69 months lower than university graduates! with Svetliar Bulschmidtski (bitshut.com)

Still labelling those who question the Covax as antivax?!
Seperate issues.
And if conspiracy theorists are always wrong, why do Hilary's witnesses keep dying?
Did Boeing not know there was issues?
And then there's Assange.
Although most may be wrong, it's not helpful to speak in absolutes.

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remery said..

Pcdefender said..
Ottawa detective suspended for investigating babies who died from SIDS after mothers took the jab... - Revolver News

"An Ottawa police detective who opposed the force's COVID-19 mandates is under investigation for allegedly trying to find out if parents whose infants had suddenly died during the pandemic were vaccinated, CBC News has learned."

Incredible news, there are people more caught up in vaccine misinformation than you! As per the above references, I think it is related to cognitive bias, low intelligence and reasoning. Instead of dobbing me into the mods, you should thank me for guiding you.

In defence of the detective, I note that my verified adverse event is still not listed as a possible side effect. It wasn't a medical review that discovered the chromium is water was hexavalent not trivalent, it was a secretary.

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psychojoe said..
Still labelling those who question the Covax as antivax?!
Seperate issues.
And if conspiracy theorists are always wrong, why do Hilary's witnesses keep dying?
Did Boeing not know there was issues?
And then there's Assange.
Although most may be wrong, it's not helpful to speak in absolutes.

Did I mention the COVID-19 vaccine?
Separate.
Hillary.
Boeing did know there were issues with the Mx 8.
Assange has done his time.
Absolute what?

(p.s. my previous comment was a piss-take directed at Pcdefender)

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psychojoe said..

remery said..

Pcdefender said..
Ottawa detective suspended for investigating babies who died from SIDS after mothers took the jab... - Revolver News

"An Ottawa police detective who opposed the force's COVID-19 mandates is under investigation for allegedly trying to find out if parents whose infants had suddenly died during the pandemic were vaccinated, CBC News has learned."

Incredible news, there are people more caught up in vaccine misinformation than you! As per the above references, I think it is related to cognitive bias, low intelligence and reasoning. Instead of dobbing me into the mods, you should thank me for guiding you.

In defence of the detective, I note that my verified adverse event is still not listed as a possible side effect. It wasn't a medical review that discovered the chromium is water was hexavalent not trivalent, it was a secretary.

Hang on, I am still confused. It is easy, so nothing special.

But, how many vaccinations have you had for Covid? On here you clearly said that you signed up for a trial (i.e. not a general publicly available vaccine), and you still seemed to have an adverse reaction.

I think at some point the researcher or whoever acknowledged it but didn't really care.

So, assuming you have only had the one vaccination, how would it be listed as a possible side effect of a trial vaccine? Did the trial become a released product, with adverse reactions listed?

I must have something wrong because your story does not make sense to me.

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psychojoe said..

In defence of the detective, I note that my verified adverse event is still not listed as a possible side effect. It wasn't a medical review that discovered the chromium is water was hexavalent not trivalent, it was a secretary.

Here's the thing, can you imagine how many anti-vax loons post to the TGA Adverse Events Database? I'll give you a clue. About 5 percent of Australians have not been vaccinated against COVID-19. However, when a newspaper recently ran a questionnaire about COVID-19 vaccine status, around 50 percent of respondents claimed they were not vaccinated. Someone is lying here ... and it's not the doctors.

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remery said...
Here's the thing, can you imagine how many anti-vax loons post to the TGA Adverse Events Database? I'll give you a clue. About 5 percent of Australians have not been vaccinated against COVID-19. However, when a newspaper recently ran a questionnaire about COVID-19 vaccine status, around 50 percent of respondents claimed they were not vaccinated. Someone is lying here ... and it's not the doctors.

Spoiler alert : Not everyone responds to newspaper questionaires.

Only lie I can see in that is the claim there must be a lie.

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Carantoc said..

Spoiler alert : Not everyone responds to newspaper questionaires.

Only lie I can see in that is the claim there must be a lie.

Or that there are fanatical liars who will create accounts to propagate their lies.

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remery said..
Or that there are fanatical liars who will create accounts to propagate their lies.

I know for a fact that many people cup their farts in their hand then smell it. But they will never admit it.

A large memorial was captured today in the streets of Austria of those injured or killed by the COVID-19 vaccines (substack.com)

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Pcdefender said..
A large memorial was captured today in the streets of Austria of those injured or killed by the COVID-19 vaccines (substack.com)

Have you considered that you are our own version of mainstream media? You are posting links all the time with no personal commentary and just sitting back. If you ran ads as well it would be the same.

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remery said..
Or that there are fanatical liars who will create accounts to propagate their lies.

Do you have any evidence of that or are you just propogating the notion...

Just because you don't like the results doesn't mean it is wrong.

I'd imagine any response to any newspaper questionaire is biased to the readership of the paper when compared to the entire population. Probably why even the ABS do statistical amelioration to their surveys.

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remery said..
Here's the thing, can you imagine how many anti-vax loons post to the TGA Adverse Events Database? I'll give you a clue. About 5 percent of Australians have not been vaccinated against COVID-19. However, when a newspaper recently ran a questionnaire about COVID-19 vaccine status, around 50 percent of respondents claimed they were not vaccinated. Someone is lying here ... and it's not the doctors.

Perhaps the respondants were telling the real truth, not the version of the truth you want to hear.

Perhaps only 5% of Australians never recieved two covid vaccine shots, but 50% have a status of not up-to-date with their full course of vaccination, which would be about six or so shots if responding to a 'recent' questionaire. Perhaps they were truthfully responding to their 'status'.

Actually I think Mark Skidmore did a survey a few years ago that better explained it.

Remery is being unnecessary harsh and not particularly accurate here.

Skidmore did a survey in the USA and discovered that Republican supporters were less likely to be vaccinated but more likely to "report" they new or new of someone who was killed by a vaccine.

Not lying, but nowhere near accurate

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D3 said..
...Not lying, but nowhere near accurate

Argh. Yep. Makes sense.

............ remery is just like just like Pcdefender then ?

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Pcdefender said..
A large memorial was captured today in the streets of Austria of those injured or killed by the COVID-19 vaccines (substack.com)

So what? There's probably just as many stupid people in Austria as Australia.

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Carantoc said..

Do you have any evidence of that or are you just propogating the notion...

Just because you don't like the results doesn't mean it is wrong.

I'd imagine any response to any newspaper questionaire is biased to the readership of the paper when compared to the entire population. Probably why even the ABS do statistical amelioration to their surveys.

I can't remember the news organisation, but I completed the survey so I could see the results.

Bias sure, but by a factor of 10?!