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Pcdefender said..
According to the Australian TGA there is around140K adverse events reports.

Yes, some of those who reported harm had more than one adverse reaction.

Estimated only around 10 percent of all harm is ever reported.

So the number is massive.

They pushed the lie often on the MSM safe and effective.

With injuries it is therefore not safe.

You forget that the vast majority of adverse events were things like "sore arm", "aching joints", "headache"... all resolved in a day or two. I have presented these data to you several times, but you continue to lie.

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Pcdefender said..
They pushed the lie on the tv safe and effective - fact.

It's not a lie, the vaccines are safe and effective.

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D3 said..
If you're threshold for whether a treatment or medical procedure is safe is : Zero injuries.

Then, it seems a fair chunk of our effective treatments (anti biotics, antivirals, pain relief etc) are unsafe.
Also a lot of SCAM treatments (acupuncture, chiropractic, essential oils etc) are also unsafe.

Even Ivermectin and HCQ have reported deaths on DAEN

Big Pharma told us Panadol was safe and effective...

"There has been a concerning increase in paracetamol poisonings, and resulting liver damage in Australia over the last decade...

The annual number of cases of paracetamol poisoning increased by 44% from 2007-2008 to 2016-2017. In that time, we recorded more than 95,000 paracetamol-related hospitalisations...

More than 200 people died from paracetamol poisoning in Australia in the ten year period."

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remery said..

Pcdefender said..
They pushed the lie on the tv safe and effective - fact.

It's not a lie, the vaccine's are safe and effective.

x.com/robertkennedyjr/status/1799661474438385852?s=46&t=1GB2TIBB90HpGgoUCFAO5w

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fangman said..

Cos I was a bit bored I asked the Oracle of Human Knowledge - aka ChatGPT, what sports could I do where the risk of an adverse event was less than that of COVID vaccination. The answer was Croquet.
The evidence I saw as a little kid when I was with my Gran at Mt Hawthorn Croquet Club would not support this recommendation. The old girls were pretty damn feisty at times and probably spiked the opposition's pikelets and sandwiches.

"Risks associated with croquet:

The most common injury amongst croquet players is a sprained or broken wrist, caused by tripping over the hoops, balls, boundary boards, fox holes or your own mallet, and often while walking backwards

Keep aware of the lawn furniture and conditions

Every spot on the lawn can be reached by walking forwards. Eschew other gaits and directions

Croquet balls are hard and can be propelled at speed

When double-banking (particularly) or playing GC, you may be on the lawn when someone else is striking the ball

Remain aware while on the lawn. Retire behind a boundary board when not required on the lawn

Do not try to stop a speeding ball with your foot

Lawn treatments we use include weed killers and fertilizers that are harmful if ingested, wash your hands before putting anything to your mouth"

Have I missed a memo somewhere ?

Do I have stay locked up and unable to cross the street until 95% of people have played at least two croquet games ?

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Pcdefender said..

www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/04/10/1168141163/the-dream-of-wiping-out-polio-might-need-a-rethink

These strains were originally part of oral polio vaccine. They were shed in human stool from those who'd been inoculated and mutated in the wild, regaining strength and becoming just as dangerous as the original virus.

Health officials were aware that the virus in the oral vaccine could mutate, ........ "We were seduced by the fact that it was cheap. It caused contact immunity. It was easy to give," ...... "Last year there were only 30 cases of wild polio detected while there were nearly 800 cases of vaccine-derived polio.

So in an ironic twist, countries are now launching emergency vaccination campaigns to protect children from outbreaks linked to earlier vaccination campaigns.

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D3 said..
So you want your diagnosis listed as a side effect of entirely different product?

Could just list it based on the people who got it from the Pfizer. Doesn't have to be all about me.

And when Philip Morris defended their cigarettes, did we need more trials to find out that other cigarettes were dangerous.

We banned the asbestos in brake pads because the asbestos in fences was causing mesothelioma.

We banned manufactured stone benchtops because of the crystalline silica causing silicosis but we didn't ban the other crystalline silica dust creating building products. I guess the authorities took your train of thought on this one.

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Carantoc said..
www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2023/04/10/1168141163/the-dream-of-wiping-out-polio-might-need-a-rethink

These strains were originally part of oral polio vaccine. They were shed in human stool from those who'd been inoculated and mutated in the wild, regaining strength and becoming just as dangerous as the original virus.

Health officials were aware that the virus in the oral vaccine could mutate, ........ "We were seduced by the fact that it was cheap. It caused contact immunity. It was easy to give," ...... "Last year there were only 30 cases of wild polio detected while there were nearly 800 cases of vaccine-derived polio.

So in an ironic twist, countries are now launching emergency vaccination campaigns to protect children from outbreaks linked to earlier vaccination campaigns.

"As all developed countries have been using inactivated polio vaccines exclusively, almost for the past two decades meaning that the recently reported cases in developed countries are derived from mutated strains of oral polio vaccine imported via travelers."

The imported polio virus then spreads to the growing number of children raised by anti-vaxx loons.

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Pcdefender said..

I assume you got this image from henrymakow.com. Henry is "what you get when you cross a men's rights activist with paranoid conspiracy theorist. Makow believes the world is controlled by nefarious Judeo-Masonic/Satanic/Commie forces, spearheaded by the Rockefeller Foundation. He also believes that the aforementioned concocted feminism, so that women wouldn't have children, as part of depopulation efforts. His writings can be found on notorious websites Whale.to, Jesus-is-savior.com, and Alex Jones' PrisonPlanet."

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IanR said..

cammd said..

IanR said..
It clearly states it in the second document but if you need it in the legal format it is in the statement of fact from the indictment

manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/2023-04-04-SOF.pdf

I cannot see which felony count on the indictment lista election crime, perhaps you can point it out for me ......on the indictment, not some other document.

Because due process demands you should be notified of the thing your being charged for.

A statement of fact after the trial had begun doesn't cut it.

The Statement of Fact is Part of the Indictment
The Trial Started on 15/04/2024 The Statement of Fact was published on 04/04/2023 a full year before the start of the trial. You do know what year it is don't you

It is pointless trying to discuss anything with someone who is in the Cult of DJT
Your arrogance and ignorance is astounding

PS I have nothing more to say about the fact that Donald John Trump is a Criminal

You have nothing more to say because you know your wrong, your hatred for Trump is clouding your view of the bigger issue, love or hate trump is not the issue. The American legal system is being abused for political purposes. That's not good for a democracy

Merchan "hand-selected three laws-federal election law, falsification of 'other' business records and 'violation of tax laws'-as the 'unlawful means' by which state election law was violated," former Justice Department lawyer David B. Rivkin Jr. and Florida International University law professor Elizabeth Price Foley note in The Wall Street Journal. "Mr. Trump received no notice of any of these offenses, and the prosecutor briefly alluded only to federal election law, during the trial."
reason.com/2024/06/06/a-jumble-of-legal-theories-failed-to-give-trump-fair-notice-of-the-new-york-charges-against-him/

Whether you love, hate or merely tolerate Donald Trump, you should care about due process, which is fundamental to the rule of law. New York's trial of Mr. Trump violated basic due-process principles.
www.wsj.com/articles/trumps-trial-violated-due-process-76fae047

Joe, maybe if sufficient number of reported cases of costochondritis are verified occuring after vaccination with Commentary (not Covalia), then it will be listed.

At the moment, there's 251 reports with costochondritis out of approx 47 million doses. (Hint: it's a pretty low rate)

But your arguments that it's the spike protein causing it would also need to be verified, specifically because there are so many differences between Comirnaty and Covalia. (Most sources can only guess as to the cause of costochondritis)

Your cigarette sorta analogy: there was overwhelming evidence that smoking any (not just Philip Morris) cigarette increased cancer rates. They didn't claim that any cigarette containing one specific ingredient would cause cancer. From there we've managed to realise that inhaling smoke of any sort is not a good idea.

We banned asbestos because airborne asbestos was causing mesothelioma. Same fibres, same delivery method (inhalation)

manufactured stone benchtops : I'm not particularly up to speed with it, but do we try to control/limit exposure to RCS from other sources?
Maybe they just went with the hazard reduction triangle and realised the most practicable solution to the hazard posed by engineered stone was to substitute it?

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IanR said..

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psychojoe said..

remery said..

Pcdefender said..

That's a really dark thing to post. Even worse if you're implying that the vaccine would have saved her.

Have another look at the quoted post. Have think and see if you get the point I was making.

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remery said..

Pcdefender said..
They pushed the lie on the tv safe and effective - fact.

It's not a lie, the vaccines are safe and effective.

I seem to remember a few members on this forum being seriously harmed by the covid vax.

Serious heart issues including one that was confirmed by the medics to be caused by his C19 vax.

I guess they are liars too?

Considering their very serious health issues i find your remark of safe and effective to be extremely callous.

"Injection site discomfort and fatigue were the most common side effect observed in mRNA, non-replicating viral vector, inactivated, and protein subunit-based vaccines. All the approved vaccines were found safe and efficacious but mRNA-based vaccines were found to be more efficacious against SARSCoV2 than other platforms."

Safety and efficacy of COVID?19 vaccines: A systematic review and meta-analysis of controlled and randomized clinical trials
Reviews in Medical Virology 34 (1), e2507, 2024

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Carantoc said..
Have I missed a memo somewhere ?

Do I have stay locked up and unable to cross the street until 95% of people have played at least two croquet games ?

I mean, yes, I can't believe you're allowed out in public if you haven't played at least two Games, you Maniac!


But, seriously, we're trying to point out that some people here are using the Nirvana fallacy to suggest that the the COVID vaccines, specifically, are unsafe.
We're just pointing out that by using their threshold of "Safe" almost all medicine should be considered unsafe.

Independent of the mandate issue.

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D3 said..
Joe, maybe if sufficient number of reported cases of costochondritis are verified occuring after vaccination with Commentary (not Covalia), then it will be listed.

At the moment, there's 251 reports with costochondritis out of approx 47 million doses. (Hint: it's a pretty low rate)

But your arguments that it's the spike protein causing it would also need to be verified, specifically because there are so many differences between Comirnaty and Covalia. (Most sources can only guess as to the cause of costochondritis)

Your cigarette sorta analogy: there was overwhelming evidence that smoking any (not just Philip Morris) cigarette increased cancer rates. They didn't claim that any cigarette containing one specific ingredient would cause cancer. From there we've managed to realise that inhaling smoke of any sort is not a good idea.

We banned asbestos because airborne asbestos was causing mesothelioma. Same fibres, same delivery method (inhalation)

manufactured stone benchtops : I'm not particularly up to speed with it, but do we try to control/limit exposure to RCS from other sources?
Maybe they just went with the hazard reduction triangle and realised the most practicable solution to the hazard posed by engineered stone was to substitute it?

I really like your comment. My case wasn't reported. The other two guys I know with costochondritis didn't report it. Stands to reason that the cases are so low if no-one is reporting.

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D3 said..should be considered unsafe.

Independent of the mandate issue.

And that's the big problem. The mandate.

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psychojoe said..

D3 said..
Joe, maybe if sufficient number of reported cases of costochondritis are verified occuring after vaccination with Commentary (not Covalia), then it will be listed.

At the moment, there's 251 reports with costochondritis out of approx 47 million doses. (Hint: it's a pretty low rate)

But your arguments that it's the spike protein causing it would also need to be verified, specifically because there are so many differences between Comirnaty and Covalia. (Most sources can only guess as to the cause of costochondritis)

Your cigarette sorta analogy: there was overwhelming evidence that smoking any (not just Philip Morris) cigarette increased cancer rates. They didn't claim that any cigarette containing one specific ingredient would cause cancer. From there we've managed to realise that inhaling smoke of any sort is not a good idea.

We banned asbestos because airborne asbestos was causing mesothelioma. Same fibres, same delivery method (inhalation)

manufactured stone benchtops : I'm not particularly up to speed with it, but do we try to control/limit exposure to RCS from other sources?
Maybe they just went with the hazard reduction triangle and realised the most practicable solution to the hazard posed by engineered stone was to substitute it?

I really like your comment. My case wasn't reported. The other two guys I know with costochondritis didn't report it. Stands to reason that the cases are so low if no-one is reporting.

Yours wasn't reported because it was captured in the trial?
And wouldn't be reported as post approval event for a different vaccine anyway.

Strange the other guys didn't report theirs. I've received a text with a link to the reporting system after each dose.
3 prompted opportunities to report at 3, 8 and 42 days after vaccination.

Theirs nothing stopping them from reporting now

I think even I suffered costochondritis. I had chest pain in that area and when I went to the GP she immediately herded me off to a chest pain clinic. Where they found... nothing. Heart seemed to have checked out fine, so they pretty much said 'keep an eye on it and if it gets worse see your doctor'.

All this in 2018 so I can't even blame it on Covid or the vaccine for Covid.

I wonder if it is related to kiting or windsurfing or weightlifting?

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D3 said..
.....Independent of the mandate issue.

Yep, but in this case I don't know that the definition of 'safe' can be assessed independant of the mandate issue.

'Safe' is going to be different for everyone and everyone's situation. A fit, healthy person in their early thirties travelling remote areas of WA and sleeping in a van with little contact with other people will have a different assessment of 'safe and effective' than a 80 year old in a busy old folks home, mingling with multiple other old folks who have covid.

Up above it is mentioned 251 severe reactions in 47 million doses. It is also mentioned the oral polio vax is no longer used because of the risk of polio developing from that was unsafe, said to be 1 in 2.4 million risk. So 251 in 47 million is 13 times a bigger risk than what is considered unsafe.

Different people, different situations will have different assessments. The mandate was a mandate. It didn't consider different situations.

People should take responsibility for their own actions. That includes assessing the risk and the reward. The risk of being in lockdown for ever if we didn't get to 95% or people having two doses is a pretty big weighting to one side. You can't just ignore that now because it is convenient to forget about it as having any weighting in the argument.

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FormulaNova said..
I think even I suffered costochondritis...

I am not doctor and don't take this as professional medical advice, but from what you type here I can diagnose that you probably do have some significant issues.....

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FormulaNova said..
I think even I suffered costochondritis. I had chest pain in that area and when I went to the GP she immediately herded me off to a chest pain clinic. Where they found... nothing. Heart seemed to have checked out fine, so they pretty much said 'keep an eye on it and if it gets worse see your doctor'.

All this in 2018 so I can't even blame it on Covid or the vaccine for Covid.

I wonder if it is related to kiting or windsurfing or weightlifting?

Normal costochondritis resolves itself in a couple of months. For me to have it for years was abnormal. If it comes back try some chest expansion exercises, According to the physio, making the chest bigger allows space for the inflammation. I'm up to tuck planche and handstand push-ups but I'm hoping to achieve a handstand to planche and back.

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Carantoc said..

D3 said..
.....Independent of the mandate issue.

Yep, but in this case I don't know that the definition of 'safe' can be assessed independant of the mandate issue.

'Safe' is going to be different for everyone and everyone's situation. A fit, healthy person in their early thirties travelling remote areas of WA and sleeping in a van with little contact with other people will have a different assessment of 'safe and effective' than a 80 year old in a busy old folks home, mingling with multiple other old folks who have covid.

Up above it is mentioned 251 severe reactions in 47 million doses. It is also mentioned the oral polio vax is no longer used because of the risk of polio developing from that was unsafe, said to be 1 in 2.4 million risk. So 251 in 47 million is 13 times a bigger risk than what is considered unsafe.

Different people, different situations will have different assessments. The mandate was a mandate. It didn't consider different situations.

People should take responsibility for their own actions. That includes assessing the risk and the reward. The risk of being in lockdown for ever if we didn't get to 95% or people having two doses is a pretty big weighting to one side. You can't just ignore that now because it is convenient to forget about it as having any weighting in the argument.

Not quite correct on the numbers,
251 "reported" cases of costochondritis alone from 47 million doses Pfizer vaccines.
140,000 reports of adverse reactions (not solely serious/severe) from 68 million doses.

Which is different to developing poliomyelitis from a polio vaccine.

Edit:
You could have compared the rate to how many reports of TTS from AZ triggered change in it's roll out and even removal in other countries.

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psychojoe said..

And that's the big problem. The mandate.

Seat belts are safe and effective. They are also mandated. But very rarely someone gets strangled by the belt in a car rollover.

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Carantoc said..

Yep, but in this case I don't know that the definition of 'safe' can be assessed independant of the mandate issue.

'Safe' is going to be different for everyone and everyone's situation. A fit, healthy person in their early thirties travelling remote areas of WA and sleeping in a van with little contact with other people will have a different assessment of 'safe and effective' than a 80 year old in a busy old folks home, mingling with multiple other old folks who have covid.

I take your point about the mandate. But you seem like a smart, responsible person. Unfortunately there are anti-vaxx loons like Pcdefender who would wander around the community while infected but asymptomatic. These deniers then infect vulnerable people who get sick and possibly die while overwhelming the medical system.