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Pcdefender said..

We are already seeing this with outright censorship practiced in the MSM and shadow bans from various social. media sites.

You post plenty of links to anti-vax stories on conservative MSM. I'm not seeing much censorship there. Quite the opposite in fact.

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D3 said..
My opinion?
At the moment, due to my family/life/work circumstances, I am concerned that there has been a growing trend in the rejection of medicine based on science and evidence. (not just the distrust garnered over the past 4 years)

And because of this, diseases like measles, whooping cough, influenza, RSV, chicken pox, etc now pose a much bigger danger to me and my family, regardless of what happens with Covid.

I get that for you, this is a non-issue, but please be aware you can't speak for the rest of us.

Yeah mate I get that, but 'science' & 'medicine' has been pretty arrogant during Covid and many in the public can see that. We all want good science and medicine but you need open debate which often was lacking during Covid and worse you were vilified by not towing the party line.

Scientists a few years ago openly said on the media that a Lab Leak was a conspiracy theory. As a true scientist how can you think that? When I hear a scientist say that they are just becoming like priests.

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Flying Dutchman said..

Border closures, school closures?? Not sure which Sweden you're talking about.

www.cato.org/policy-analysis/sweden-during-pandemic

Sweden did introduce distance learning.

However, where they didn't...

"A careful analysis of health data from Sweden suggests keeping schools open with only minimal precautions in the spring roughly doubled teachers' risk of being diagnosed with the pandemic coronavirus. Their partners faced a 29% higher risk of becoming infected than partners of teachers who shifted to teaching online. Parents of children in school were 17% more likely to be diagnosed with COVID-19 than those whose children were in remote learning."
www.science.org/content/article/keeping-schools-open-without-masks-or-quarantines-doubled-swedish-teachers-covid-19

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psychojoe said..

FormulaNova said..

I wonder if a test of giving someone a tetanus injection versus a covid vaccination would result in anything useful as to whether it was a reaction to the particular vaccine or specifically the covid vaccine. Of course, this is unethical so will never happen.

The was a placebo group in my trial, which incidentally was sponsored by Dr. Nick Coatsworth. No adverse events in that group.

I specifically mentioned Tetanus as I had a Tetanus injection during all this hooplah. As a bit of a wind-up I posted my reaction to it here without mentioning which vaccine it was, implying it was the Covid vaccine.

I did have a reaction to it. I got a sore arm. I got a headache. I got a fever. Which was pretty much the same sort of reaction I got to the third Covid vaccination, which was a Moderna one after the first two where Pfizer.

So, I wonder, is it specific to Covid vaccines, mRNA, or any vaccine?

I think had I not been thinking 'Oh, I just had a Tetanus injection' I would have probably ignored the symptoms and thought I was coming down with a cold or just had a headache.

This Swedish study compares COVID infection among teachers and family of students from upper secondary schools which closed, and lower secondary which remained open.

www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2020834118

Nearly every medic who spoke out against the vax in Australia and elsewhere was censored by the MSM - fact.

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D3 said..
Yep, They tried to keep the schools open for the Spring and Summer, but once autumn rolled around they had to change their policies.

Respectfully disagree D3. Sweden handled things quite differently to most countries.

'Sweden made the choice to keep pre-schools, primary schools, and lower secondary schools open very early in the pandemic, and even when upper secondary schools and universities closed and went online, schools for the younger students have been kept in-person throughout the whole COVID-19 pandemic. This choice was in stark contrast to most other comparable countries, including the close Nordic neighbours.'

www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0883035522000891


Edit: Ah remery, you beat me to it : )

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japie said..

11 Agitator operators at work during the mass stabbing. 4 hospitalised with pneumonia within 6 months. 1 case of severe shingles (35 year old bloke), 1 still on prescribed hydroxychloroquine and steroids.

Everyone contracted covid, a few two or three times.

I got it. Turned up to work saying I felt a bit ordinary. Was asked to "test" as one blokes missus was severely immune compromised. Positive and had a weeks holiday.

Any wonder a bloke is sceptical!

Yep, Pneumonia is Nasty! Once you're out of hospital youve still got weeks-months of recovery.
In 1968 and 1970, influenza and pneumonia was the fifth leading cause of death.

I once managed to have a real nasty case of shingles covering pretty much wherever my seatbelt touched, back in my 20's.

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Pcdefender said..
Nearly every medic who spoke out against the vax in Australia and elsewhere was censored by the MSM - fact.

How would you know? If it was 'nearly' then clearly some were not censored.

How would you then quantify the number?

I am sure I read about people that weren't keen on it and were willing to give up their jobs because of it. Hardly censorship if I knew about it.

... and if you have such a big distrust of mainstream media, and presumably not reading it, how would you know if it is censoring things?

edit: the smartarse in me wants to suggest that next time the MSM puts it in meme form so that a larger audience can understand it

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FormulaNova said..

psychojoe said..

FormulaNova said..

I wonder if a test of giving someone a tetanus injection versus a covid vaccination would result in anything useful as to whether it was a reaction to the particular vaccine or specifically the covid vaccine. Of course, this is unethical so will never happen.

The was a placebo group in my trial, which incidentally was sponsored by Dr. Nick Coatsworth. No adverse events in that group.

I specifically mentioned Tetanus as I had a Tetanus injection during all this hooplah. As a bit of a wind-up I posted my reaction to it here without mentioning which vaccine it was, implying it was the Covid vaccine.

I did have a reaction to it. I got a sore arm. I got a headache. I got a fever. Which was pretty much the same sort of reaction I got to the third Covid vaccination, which was a Moderna one after the first two where Pfizer.

So, I wonder, is it specific to Covid vaccines, mRNA, or any vaccine?

I think had I not been thinking 'Oh, I just had a Tetanus injection' I would have probably ignored the symptoms and thought I was coming down with a cold or just had a headache.

I've found that I always have a rough day and sore arm after the dtap vaccine.
2nd Covid vaccine was similar, but the rest have barely even had injection site soreness.

The whole Placebo/Nocebo has had plenty of study over the years, it seems its one of those things that while we have rough understanding/can observe it occurring, we just don't know enough to be able to utilise it effectively.

Go on then give me one example where a doctor or nurse was on the MSM speaking out against the vax.

I do remember the last 4 years and it was one narrative - get the vax.

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D3 said..
sciencebasedmedicine.org/yes-schools-were-closed-in-sweden/

Also I find websites like that disingenuous.

'Science Based Medicine'. Sound impressive.

Apparently it's run by the New England Skeptical Society. Why do they need to make another website not under their own banner.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science-Based_Medicine

Sweden population 10 million, COVID deaths. 27,400.

Australia population 26 million, COVID deaths, 24,400.

If we had followed Sweden's "lead", 46,000 more Australians would be dead today.

(I'm happy to have my maths checked and corrected)

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Flying Dutchman said..

Scientists a few years ago openly said on the media that a Lab Leak was a conspiracy theory. As a true scientist how can you think that? When I hear a scientist say that they are just becoming like priests.

Yep, whenever it gets called a conspiracy, it really bugs me. It takes away from and diminishes all the work that people are putting to figure it out. (just like scientists, medical professionals etc who dismiss things out of hand and can't commit to taking the extra time to acknowledge legitimate concerns)

There's no Grand Conspiracy that is covering it up. But tired people take short cuts when communicating, and are less likely to care if they are accurate or even offensive (I'm evidence of that)

There are legitimate scientists that trying to work it out, and Carantoc has mentioned that the Chinese have been less than helpful with this.
although, that in itself is not evidence.

A strong paper that thought it had figured out that it was most likely a natural spillover from 2 sources.
But someone figure out there was a bug in their analytics code which threw their numbers out by a couple of factors.
Still leans towards natural spillover, but only from one source, but is now not as strong paper going up against some of the Lab evidence
(can you imagine the nerd who looked over that code to find that fault?)

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Flying Dutchman said..

D3 said..
sciencebasedmedicine.org/yes-schools-were-closed-in-sweden/

Also I find websites like that disingenuous.

'Science Based Medicine'. Sound impressive.

Apparently it's run by the New England Skeptical Society. Why do they need to make another website not under their own banner.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science-Based_Medicine

Because the Skeptics society does not focus just on Medicine.

The writers on this page focus on issues in Medicine (with occasional interesting guests).

They chose Science Based so as to distinguish themselves from Evidence Based.

Because even though you might have evidence that a treatment works, or a product is dangerous? You need to be able to back it up with good science.

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D3 said..
Yep, whenever it gets called a conspiracy, it really bugs me. It takes away from and diminishes all the work that people are putting to figure it out. (just like scientists, medical professionals etc who dismiss things out of hand and can't commit to taking the extra time to acknowledge legitimate concerns)

There's no Grand Conspiracy that is covering it up. But tired people take short cuts when communicating, and are less likely to care if they are accurate or even offensive (I'm evidence of that)

There are legitimate scientists that trying to work it out, and Carantoc has mentioned that the Chinese have been less than helpful with this.
although, that in itself is not evidence.

A strong paper that thought it had figured out that it was most likely a natural spillover from 2 sources.
But someone figure out there was a bug in their analytics code which threw their numbers out by a couple of factors.
Still leans towards natural spillover, but only from one source, but is now not as strong paper going up against some of the Lab evidence
(can you imagine the nerd who looked over that code to find that fault?)

Thumbs up

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00998-y

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remery said..
Sweden population 10 million, COVID deaths. 27,400.

Australia population 26 million, COVID deaths, 24,400.

If we had followed Sweden's "lead", 46,000 more Australians would be dead today.

(I'm happy to have my maths checked and corrected)

Yes, that maths stacks up. Makes you wonder though. Dead people can't complain, but its not good if you are the unlucky one whether you have been injured or killed by Covid or by the vaccine. But your logic stands.

Is the definition of 'Covid death' the same for both jurisdictions or were the figures compiled differently ?

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FormulaNova said..

remery said..
Sweden population 10 million, COVID deaths. 27,400.

Australia population 26 million, COVID deaths, 24,400.

If we had followed Sweden's "lead", 46,000 more Australians would be dead today.

(I'm happy to have my maths checked and corrected)

Yes, that maths stacks up. Makes you wonder though. Dead people can't complain, but its not good if you are the unlucky one whether you have been injured or killed by Covid or by the vaccine. But your logic stands.

That math doesn't come close. Climate is a factor in transmission. The half life of a virus will increase more than twenty-fold in a cold climate.

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psychojoe said..

That math doesn't come close. Climate is a factor in transmission. The half life of a virus will increase more than twenty-fold in a cold climate.

Are you sure it is climate that is the reason that virusses spread more easily in cold climates? I though that it was because people tend to congregate more inside when it is cold versus when it is not. The life of a virus means little unless there are people around to catch it.

Either way, there are so many variables involved, that you can only have a guess at what the number would be, which should be clear to you. So under that assumption the number is a projection, clearly.

I guess it suits your belief though, so think what you want. I do.

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Carantoc said..
Is the definition of 'Covid death' the same for both jurisdictions or were the figures compiled differently ?

I got the numbers from the Illuminati-Funded, Worldometers.info

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psychojoe said..

That math doesn't come close. Climate is a factor in transmission. The half life of a virus will increase more than twenty-fold in a cold climate.

It's pretty cold and crowded in Japan.

Japan death rate - 595
Sweden death rate - 2,682

But Sweden's economy flourished during and after COVID right? I mean they didn't have the economic impact of lockdowns and they no longer have to care for many of their elderly people...

"The economy of Sweden experienced a recession in 2020, following the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak. According to a forecast from December 2022, the gross domestic product (GDP) of Sweden then increased by over five percent in 2021. However, growth was negative in 2023 as a result of the high inflation rates.14 May 2024"

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remery said..
But Sweden's economy flourished during and after COVID right? I mean they didn't have the economic impact of lockdowns and they no longer have to care for many of their elderly people...

"The economy of Sweden experienced a recession in 2020, following the coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak. According to a forecast from December 2022, the gross domestic product (GDP) of Sweden then increased by over five percent in 2021. However, growth was negative in 2023 as a result of the high inflation rates.14 May 2024"

Sweden's economy is heavily reliant upon their neighbours who ****ed them over completely.

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Pcdefender said..
Go on then give me one example where a doctor or nurse was on the MSM speaking out against the vax.

I do remember the last 4 years and it was one narrative - get the vax.

If you consider Censorship being unable to spread incorrect information on a platform that is supposed to (at least try to) provide correct information. Sure, plenty of media outlets do that.
That's why you don't see many Aliens live among us, Area 51, I saw jesus in my mirror or Flat Earth believers on any other platforms than their own.

But for medical professionals who have genuine concerns about treatments or procedures?
How about Drs Nick Coatsworth and Kerryn Phelps?

Edit: Just remembered that Sky News Australia had Dr John Campbell on a live show earlier this year.

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D3 said..

Pcdefender said..
Go on then give me one example where a doctor or nurse was on the MSM speaking out against the vax.

I do remember the last 4 years and it was one narrative - get the vax.

If you consider Censorship being unable to spread incorrect information on a platform that is supposed to (at least try to) provide correct information. Sure, plenty of media outlets do that.
That's why you don't see many Aliens live among us, Area 51, I saw jesus in my mirror or Flat Earth believers on any other platforms than their own.

But for medical professionals who have genuine concerns about treatments or procedures?
How about Drs Nick Coatsworth and Kerryn Phelps?

Edit: Just remembered that Sky News Australia had Dr John Campbell on a live show earlier this year.

Earlier this year, after 90 percent have taken them.
There was a nurse from Adelaide who was given maybe 30 seconds on the MSM.

Only one i remember.

Overall, there was clearly one narrative allowed only. If you want to tell yourself the medics who were speaking out against the vax are CT and therefore do not warrant air time fine.

Here's the auto-generated transcript of a doctor of molecular biology debunking that BMJ article posted above that used Our World in Data to study excess deaths.

There's a load antivaxers are reading headlines again and thinking that they are right all along, I mean who's going to have the heart to tell them that they're just being gullible and not actually reading anything before making up their mind... me I have the heart

Hello I'm Dr Wilson I'm a PhD molecular biologist and welcome to another debunking video so yeah newspapers like the Telegraph and the Daily Mail are running headlines like this saying that a study published in the bmj is suggesting that vaccines may be responsible for excess deaths this has prompted many influencers on social media to Proclaim that they were right all along that vaccines were dangerous and that they're now Vindicated because the mass media headlines say so, aren't these people supposed to not trust mass media. I guess that rule only applies for when the newspapers go against what they already believe but if they say something they like they swallow it without question. So yeah if you can't tell already I'm just going to hit you with some cold water right away these headlines are absolutely wrong and that bmj study does not even remotely demonstrate that vaccines are anywhere near responsible for excess deaths

So let's just put our thinking caps on read a little bit past the headlines go actually to the primary source the bmj article and assess whether or not they actually found evidence that vaccines are causing excess deaths so what are the authors in this bmj article doing they're going to a database called our world in data our world in data is a website that posts and compiles data from all over the world on all sorts of different topics, including data relevant to the co pandemic one of the things they list are excess deaths these are deaths that occurred in a country that are above a projected baseline

To put this really simply, you can think of it this way if you take an average across 5 years of all the deaths that occur in a given country then that is your Baseline, and any deaths above that average will be considered excess the covid pandemic saw huge increases in excess deaths in most countries in the world no surprise, given it was a pandemic with a new virus that was killing up to 2,000 Americans a day at one point. But what these authors are saying is that these excess deaths have continued into 2021 and 2022 and they're saying that this increase in excess deaths despite the roll out of vaccines and better treatments for covid is worrying. That's pretty much it that's all this paper is doing it's not even offering a new analysis it's just posting data from our world in data and commenting on it which is kind of a lazy study and I'm surprised that it got published in the bmj

So it's a direct misrepresentation of the paper to say that it is suggesting that vaccines are causing these excess deaths when they don't analyze or do anything to address the question of whether or not that's the case; and just to show you how ridiculous that idea is and how lazy this paper was, if you take data from our world and data and look at covid deaths from the same countries involved in this bmj study, and overlay those covid deaths with excess deaths in the same graph that was used in the paper in the same timeline that was used in the paper, you see that the covid deaths align pretty perfectly with spikes and excess deaths

So yeah covid is mostly responsible for these excess deaths this figure is really easy to recreate on your own but credit for making this particular one goes to Twitter user Uncle John no relation to me, so yeah it's that easy to take these data do a little bit more work and show that these excess deaths are not really mysterious, but if you wanted to be really thorough and ask but are the vaccines contributing at all to these excess deaths well you can do that and this paper doesn't do that. But plenty of other papers already have you just have to do a cohort study where one group of people has gotten vaccinated and another group of people has not gotten vaccinated for covid and then you simply ask do all cause deaths increase in the vaccine group relative to the unvaccinated group and the answer so far in every single study which has been multiple from all over the world from a variety of different institutions and a variety of different universities has been no covid vaccines are not increasing the risk of all cause deaths. Therefore there is no evidence that they are contributing to excess deaths, we can also look at this other ways we can take countries that have a higher percentage of their population vaccinated compare them to countries with a lower percentage of their populations vaccinated, and look at excess deaths over the 2021 to 2022 time period, and we see that the more vaccinated the country is the fewer excess deaths

In fact if you look at the perfect country for testing the idea of whether vaccines cause excess deaths New Zealand, during the time they vaccinated most of their population there were no covid cases in the country, and during this time they had negative excess deaths and when the country did open back up and SARSCOV2 to enter the population instead of seeing huge spikes and excess deaths, like we did in other countries when they were dealing with SARSCOV2. While most of their population was unvaccinated New Zealand's excess deaths simply went from negative to back to Baseline. How is this possible if vaccines are contributing to excess deaths? With all that said, the one useful point that this paper does make, which is pretty obvious, and we didn't need the paper for; is that we can do better there are still people dying of covid every day and although the total numbers of deaths are way lower than they were in 2020 and 2021, we can still be doing better because most of these people who are dying are people who are vulnerable to covid and are not receiving prompt treatment

But I'm a scientist and not a medical doctor, so if you want to learn more about what we can be doing better to give early treatment to covid patients, I'll refer you to Dr Daniel Griffin he is an md phd an infectious disease expert and a science Communicator hosting a weekly clinical update including all the information you want to know about covid its treatments and how we're doing with it that's actually going to be useful instead of this bmj AR article, and all of its associated headlines, which are totally bogus. If these influencers who are sharing these headlines actually cared about the question of whether or not covid vaccines are contributing to excess deaths, they would at least put on a little bit of a thinking cap and look a little bit into the paper to see, if there was an analysis of vaccinated versus unvaccinated group,s there was none of that. They didn't look for it because they probably don't care.

Anyway in summary is there anything at all in this bmj article that supports this idea that covid vaccines are contributing to excess deaths ... no.

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Pcdefender said..

D3 said..

Pcdefender said..
Go on then give me one example where a doctor or nurse was on the MSM speaking out against the vax.

I do remember the last 4 years and it was one narrative - get the vax.

If you consider Censorship being unable to spread incorrect information on a platform that is supposed to (at least try to) provide correct information. Sure, plenty of media outlets do that.
That's why you don't see many Aliens live among us, Area 51, I saw jesus in my mirror or Flat Earth believers on any other platforms than their own.

But for medical professionals who have genuine concerns about treatments or procedures?
How about Drs Nick Coatsworth and Kerryn Phelps?

Edit: Just remembered that Sky News Australia had Dr John Campbell on a live show earlier this year.

Earlier this year, after 90 percent have taken them.
There was a nurse from Adelaide who was given maybe 30 seconds on the MSM.

Only one i remember.

Overall, there was clearly one narrative allowed only. If you want to tell yourself the medics who were speaking out against the vax are CT and therefore do not warrant air time fine.

You did ask for one example, I gave you a couple.

Robert Malone and Peter McCullough have been on the JRE, which arguably might reach more people than the entirety of Australian media.

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Pcdefender said..

Earlier this year, after 90 percent have taken them.
There was a nurse from Adelaide who was given maybe 30 seconds on the MSM.

Only one i remember.

Overall, there was clearly one narrative allowed only. If you want to tell yourself the medics who were speaking out against the vax are CT and therefore do not warrant air time fine.

90 percent, that's a very specific number. Do you have confidence intervals?