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cammd said..

IanR said..
It clearly states it in the second document but if you need it in the legal format it is in the statement of fact from the indictment

manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/2023-04-04-SOF.pdf

I cannot see which felony count on the indictment lista election crime, perhaps you can point it out for me ......on the indictment, not some other document.

Because due process demands you should be notified of the thing your being charged for.

A statement of fact after the trial had begun doesn't cut it.

The Statement of Fact is Part of the Indictment
The Trial Started on 15/04/2024 The Statement of Fact was published on 04/04/2023 a full year before the start of the trial. You do know what year it is don't you

It is pointless trying to discuss anything with someone who is in the Cult of DJT
Your arrogance and ignorance is astounding

PS I have nothing more to say about the fact that Donald John Trump is a Criminal

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Flying Dutchman said..

remery said..
The authors apologize for this error and state that this does not change the scientific conclusions of the article in any way. The original article has been updated."

Yeah so a peer reviewed paper says that vaxxed died at greater numbers than unvaxxed. Right?

I'm glad you brought this up, they actually discuss why they saw this.

They actually had more unvaccinated people hospitalised with COVID as part of their cohort.
This, amongst other factors, lead them to think that the vaccinated people were already probably more vulnerable, with more comorbidities as well as older than the unvaccinated.

As in, only the most vulnerable vaccinated individuals were hospitalised, therefore were more likely to have more serious disease and morbidity.

While the unvaccinated people who were hospitalised came from a wider range of population, including more younger and less vulnerable people, who would therefore be more likely to survive anyway. (But COVID still made them sick enough to require hospital treatment).

Thanks for replying fangman & D3.

Yup they are all good points. I guess I found this study interesting because we were led to believe that 50+ year old covid vaxxed people were 7-10 times more likely to not die than the unvaccinated according to Remery's studies and various media outlets over the years. This particular study paints a very different picture.

Indeed, they have some interesting discussion and some speculation as to why this could be seen.

Not least, is the inconsistent vaccination status among the cohort. I know they tried to account for it, but only 6 had 3 doses.

Definitely worth noting that almost 4 times as many unvaccinated were hospitalised and treated in ICU than vaccinated people.

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Flying Dutchman said..
Thanks for replying fangman & D3.

Yup they are all good points. I guess I found this study interesting because we were led to believe that 50+ year old covid vaxxed people were 7-10 times more likely to not die than the unvaccinated according to Remery's studies and various media outlets over the years. This particular study paints a very different picture.

I haven't done any studies on immunology.

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D3 said..

psychojoe said..

D3 said..
Like Delta?

Or the fact omicron was deemed comparable to the original strain?

Was the vaccine you participated in trialling ever marketed/approved?

No. It was Covalia.

So why would your reaction to that be listed as a side effect for a different vaccine?

Same protein. No additives.

Edit: And anecdotally. I know two men who suffered the same costochondritis from the Pfizer Vax.

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Flying Dutchman said..
Thanks for replying fangman & D3.

Yup they are all good points. I guess I found this study interesting because we were led to believe that 50+ year old covid vaxxed people were 7-10 times more likely to not die than the unvaccinated according to Remery's studies and various media outlets over the years. This particular study paints a very different picture.

This review is a more in depth investigation an cites the paper you provided. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10973921/
"Interestingly, this IgG4 production was detected following SARS-CoV-2 infection and after administration of anti-COVID-19 products, perfectly suggesting both the allergenic and tolerogenic side of the Spike protein and, thus, the production of this type of antibody by repeated exposure to this viral component [260-263]."

I haven't read the whole review but it seems to be suggesting induced immune tolerance.

Getting back to the paper you presented; you left this part out of their conclusion...
"This finding raises the possibility that an aberrant immunopathological response to vaccination in a subset of patients might have contributed to the inadequate response to COVID-19 vaccines. This speculative observation warrants additional research regarding heterogeneous host responses to vaccination. It is also important to note that overall frailty is recognized as a reliable predictor of clinical outcomes of COVID-19 followed by age and comorbidities. However, elderly, and those with various comorbid conditions and increased frailty index, were not adequately represented in the conducted clinical COVID-19 vaccine trials. This significant omission is highlighted by our current and other similar studies and suggest the need for better vaccines or other therapies for certain at-risk populations."

It seems to me, and I might be wrong, that both papers are saying that a small number of frail people may not get the hoped-for protection from the vaccine, and that, if they get COVID, they may die of COVID not the vaccine.I'm happy to be corrected with intelligent discourse, ie, not a meme.

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Flying Dutchman said..
Thanks for replying fangman & D3.

Yup they are all good points. I guess I found this study interesting because we were led to believe that 50+ year old covid vaxxed people were 7-10 times more likely to not die than the unvaccinated according to Remery's studies and various media outlets over the years. This particular study paints a very different picture.

Did you look at the supplementary figures?Supplemental figure 1. Overall survival probability of the Vax (incomplete and complete vax series) and NVax SARS-CoV2-infected patients (A) and average time post-first vaccine dose to hospitalization among Vax survivors and non-survivors (B).

Hardly a representative sample of the population.

"We obtained banked plasma samples from the Ohio State University Intensive Care Unit Registry (BuckICU) collected from individuals admitted to The Ohio State University (OSU) hospitals from May 2020 to November 2022. This biorepository collects longitudinal biospecimens and associated clinical data from hospitalized patients tested positive for COVID-19 (by RT-PCR) and non-COVID-19 respiratory failure of varying severity. Notably, the cohort is enriched for critically ill patients admitted to the Intensive Care Unit (ICU)."

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psychojoe said..

Edit: And anecdotally. I know two men who suffered the same costochondritis from the Pfizer Vax.

Problem is their self funded data / rhetoric has equal or more influence than first hand experience for many.

Marc Veldhoen, Head of Laboratory, Professor Basic Immunology and T cell expert, seems to be a smart guy. 119 peer-reviewed publications with 23,805 citations and an H Index of 50. He has a MSc in Medical Biology, Faculty of Medicine, University of Utrecht and a PhD in Immunology obtained at the National Institute for Medical Research (NIMR), London. He did his post-doc at NIMR, working on Thelper cell differentiation. In 2010 he moved to Cambridge to start his own group, with a focus on mucosal T cells. In 2016 he took up the position of ERA Chair at the Instituto de Medicina Molecular, Lisbon, with a continuing focus on mucosal T cell biology.

I wonder what he thinks about the paper Flying Dutchman posted... "No, absolutely, no. COVID-19 vaccination are NOT associated with worse clinical outcomes and decreased SARS-CoV-2/CCCoV Ab levels. No, also not with IgG4, as the authors claim. The conclusion is not substantiated by the data shown. This is again a large misstep ... What can you claim with this? If you do not know the size of the population these patients come from.... entirely nothing. Yet the authors make calculations, based on flawed reasoning, making equally wrong conclusions. Base rate fallacy.

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Pcdefender said..

According to a few on here there are no vaccine injured as it was 'safe and effective'.

Certainly was effective at making lots of cash for Big Pharma. As in billions.

Safe - nothing could possibly be further from the truth.

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remery said..

Pcdefender said..

That's a really dark thing to post. Even worse if you're implying that the vaccine would have saved her.

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Pcdefender said..
According to a few on here there are no vaccine injured...

Lying again.

Many on here have said on previous occasions the C19 vax was safe.

Countless times also on the MSM the talking head gurus spouted the lie safe and effective.

Yes the vaccine is safe and effective.
2-10 people per 100,000 have serious side effects. Most of them resolve in a few days or weeks. I'm not aware of anyone on here who have said there a no vaccine injured. You are among a few on here who make preposterous comments like 140,000 vaccine injured.

According to the Australian TGA there is around140K adverse events reports.

Yes, some of those who reported harm had more than one adverse reaction.

Estimated only around 10 percent of all harm is ever reported.

So the number is massive.

They pushed the lie often on the MSM safe and effective.

With injuries it is therefore not safe.

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psychojoe said..

D3 said..

psychojoe said..

D3 said..
Like Delta?

Or the fact omicron was deemed comparable to the original strain?

Was the vaccine you participated in trialling ever marketed/approved?

No. It was Covalia.

So why would your reaction to that be listed as a side effect for a different vaccine?

Same protein. No additives.

Edit: And anecdotally. I know two men who suffered the same costochondritis from the Pfizer Vax.

So it's actually quite a different vaccine.

Using DNA rather than mRNA
Not using a needle (according to the article I read)

So why should your reaction be listed as a potential side effect of a different product, using different technologies and delivery method (probably different dosage as well)?

Although, if you consider costochondritis a form of arthralgia, it's definitely listed on the package insert.

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Pcdefender said..
According to the Australian TGA there is around140K adverse events reports.

Yes, some of those who reported harm had more than one adverse reaction.

Estimated only around 10 percent of all harm is ever reported.

So the number is massive.

They pushed the lie often on the MSM safe and effective.

With injuries it is therefore not safe.

You posted about a 48 year-old woman who died recently, and because a news report used "dies suddenly" you immediately go looking for a vaccine to blame?

140,000 X 10 = 1.4 million.
Surely that's a big enough number for us to actually see those people being sick/hospitalised?

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Pcdefender said..

Estimated only around 10 percent of all harm is ever reported.

They pushed the lie often on the social media safe and effective.

With injuries it is therefore not safe.

Could say the same thing about HCQ and Ivermectin

Although you could go to DAEN and look at the reports that have been submitted.

daen.tga.gov.au/medicines-search/

Apparently 1,000 reports of people dying after vaccination (68 million doses)

They pushed the lie on the tv safe and effective - fact.

If you're threshold for whether a treatment or medical procedure is safe is : Zero injuries.

Then, it seems a fair chunk of our effective treatments (anti biotics, antivirals, pain relief etc) are unsafe.
Also a lot of SCAM treatments (acupuncture, chiropractic, essential oils etc) are also unsafe.

Even Ivermectin and HCQ have reported deaths on DAEN

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D3 said..

psychojoe said..

D3 said..

psychojoe said..

D3 said..
Like Delta?

Or the fact omicron was deemed comparable to the original strain?

Was the vaccine you participated in trialling ever marketed/approved?

No. It was Covalia.

So why would your reaction to that be listed as a side effect for a different vaccine?

Same protein. No additives.

Edit: And anecdotally. I know two men who suffered the same costochondritis from the Pfizer Vax.

So it's actually quite a different vaccine.

Using DNA rather than mRNA
Not using a needle (according to the article I read)

So why should your reaction be listed as a potential side effect of a different product, using different technologies and delivery method (probably different dosage as well)?

Although, if you consider costochondritis a form of arthralgia, it's definitely listed on the package insert.

Arthralgia is a symptom not a diagnosis.

So you want your diagnosis listed as a side effect of entirely different product?

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D3 said..
If you're threshold for whether a treatment or medical procedure is safe is : Zero injuries.

Then, it seems a fair chunk of our effective treatments (anti biotics, antivirals, pain relief etc) are unsafe.
Also a lot of SCAM treatments (acupuncture, chiropractic, essential oils etc) are also unsafe.

Even Ivermectin and HCQ have reported deaths on DAEN

Cos I was a bit bored I asked the Oracle of Human Knowledge - aka ChatGPT, what sports could I do where the risk of an adverse event was less than that of COVID vaccination. The answer was Croquet.
The evidence I saw as a little kid when I was with my Gran at Mt Hawthorn Croquet Club would not support this recommendation. The old girls were pretty damn feisty at times and probably spiked the opposition's pikelets and sandwiches.

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D3 said..
If you're threshold for whether a treatment or medical procedure is safe is : Zero injuries.

Then, it seems a fair chunk of our effective treatments (anti biotics, antivirals, pain relief etc) are unsafe.
Also a lot of SCAM treatments (acupuncture, chiropractic, essential oils etc) are also unsafe.

Even Ivermectin and HCQ have reported deaths on DAEN

All medicines present an element of risk for sure. Most of them carry warnings. New ones present the worst element of risk as they've yet to be widely used.

Our exercise and eating habits carry the biggest risks. Healthy people are less likely to get sick and when they do they generally heal more quickly.
They also are unlikely to be using any pharmaceutical product frequently. Less or zero risk.

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IanR said..

cammd said..

IanR said..
It clearly states it in the second document but if you need it in the legal format it is in the statement of fact from the indictment

manhattanda.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/2023-04-04-SOF.pdf

I cannot see which felony count on the indictment lista election crime, perhaps you can point it out for me ......on the indictment, not some other document.

Because due process demands you should be notified of the thing your being charged for.

A statement of fact after the trial had begun doesn't cut it.

The Statement of Fact is Part of the Indictment
The Trial Started on 15/04/2024 The Statement of Fact was published on 04/04/2023 a full year before the start of the trial. You do know what year it is don't you

It is pointless trying to discuss anything with someone who is in the Cult of DJT
Your arrogance and ignorance is astounding

PS I have nothing more to say about the fact that Donald John Trump is a Criminal

He's not a criminal, he's a ganster - have some respect
corner pocket