yeah
and maybe the ANZACS came back and would tell anyone who listened, that it was all for a lie.
the only thing that saved them were their mates.
they weren't fighting for the cause for king or country. they were fighting for their mates. to get them the hell outta there. IT WAS ALL A LIE.

THIS, IS ALL A LIE

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theDoctor said..


YOUR ANZAC ANCESTORS ARE SO PHUKING ASHAMED OF YOU
AND NOW THEY'RE COMING FOR YOUR GODDAMN KIDS

The ANZAC ancestors are coming for my god-damn kids? Oh 5hit!

Isn't it sad when people try to (mis) represent what someone else might think. Especially in this context. You could equally say that they would be dissapointed in the arseholes that won't do the thing required to help the majority out... just like they helped the majority out. Sounds more likely than your half arsed assertion.

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theDoctor said..
yeah
and maybe the ANZACS came back and would tell anyone who listened, that it was all for a lie.
the only thing that saved them were their mates.
they weren't fighting for the cause for king or country. they were fighting for their mates. to get them the hell outta there. IT WAS ALL A LIE.

THIS, IS ALL A LIE

Which bit, your entire post, or just the bit before the 'this, is all a lie' bit?

I am also confused about the comma.

Are memes the modern day equivalent of the crazy guy with the sandwhich board that says 'the end of the world is nigh'?

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theDoctor said..
yeah
and maybe the ANZACS came back and would tell anyone who listened, that it was all for a lie.
the only thing that saved them were their mates.
they weren't fighting for the cause for king or country. they were fighting for their mates. to get them the hell outta there. IT WAS ALL A LIE.

THIS, IS ALL A LIE

I've never had a politician fight along side me or shed a tear for any of the losses to our forces who THEY sent

Novak will win this second rate tennis cup, tell this country sucks and never return here.

The world will applaud him. Australia will loathe him.

Still now no one have balls to admit their fault at this mess. Unfortunately its a characteristic of us (blame shifting).

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FormulaNova said..

theDoctor said..


YOUR ANZAC ANCESTORS ARE SO PHUKING ASHAMED OF YOU
AND NOW THEY'RE COMING FOR YOUR GODDAMN KIDS

The ANZAC ancestors are coming for my god-damn kids? Oh 5hit!

Isn't it sad when people try to (mis) represent what someone else might think. Especially in this context. You could equally say that they would be dissapointed in the arseholes that won't do the thing required to help the majority out... just like they helped the majority out. Sounds more likely than your half arsed assertion.

they did, you moron, news was tacked to the trunks of trees
and when they got there
they realised
it was all a lie...
for phucks sake, Gallipoli was a deliberate turkey shoot..... get it....? turkey shoot.

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FormulaNova said..
Are memes the modern day equivalent of the crazy guy with the sandwhich board that says 'the end of the world is nigh'?

Nope, the modern day equivalent of that are the large media corporations and their advertising revenue.

Oh, and also the state premiers and the politicians on election watch.

Oh, and also Greta.

Mainly Greta.

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Tequila ! said..
Still now no one have balls to admit their fault at this mess. Unfortunately its a characteristic of us (blame shifting).

From what I read of the court case (and saw when the live stream was working) the fault in this lies with the judge.

How he came up with 'release and return his visa immediately', I am buggered if I can work it out.


Don't get me wrong here, the mandatory jab is a dumb rule and I think Novak should be allowed in and to play tennis. But that wasn't the question before the court. The question was about border officials and Novak correctly following the procedures or not.

It seems the border officials may not have followed procedures in the judges view simply because they informally made a comment as part of a lengthy discussion, which later turned out to be not how events actually unfolded.

But it also seems Novak failed to follow the procedure in far more significant ways... lies, indifference and deliberate attempts to circumvent the rules. From the transcripts he also seems he accepted the revised timeline the officials offered.

The judges language seemed inherently biased to me and it seemed he had already made up his mind of disliking government officials and the way the situation had panned out before he entered the court room.




Surely Novak didn't have a visa to be returned until he got the stamp at the border saying he had a visa, which he didn't get. How could he have his visa returned when he didn't have one anyways ?

If the court found he wasn't given sufficient time by the border officials to argue his case, then give him that time now. Now he has all lawyers with him. Give him the two hours now to prove his case for medical exemption of the jab. Why the court releases him from meeting any of the rules because of a procedural misstep by border officials seems bizarre.

If the rule is you have to be vaccinated, and he no longer has covid, and thus no longer has any reason for his medical exemption then make him get the vaccine now. Right now. Before release from quarantine. Public jab. If he won't have it then clearly his refusal is not one of medical exemption but one of personal choice and thus send him home.

If he takes one then clearly there was no reason he couldn't have got one at any time in the last two years he didn't have covid and so he lied and send him home.

If he needed an extra two hours to prove his exemption, then give him two hours.

Release him from all obligations to meet Australian laws seems ..... unlawful. I blame the judge.

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theDoctor said..

FormulaNova said..

theDoctor said..


YOUR ANZAC ANCESTORS ARE SO PHUKING ASHAMED OF YOU
AND NOW THEY'RE COMING FOR YOUR GODDAMN KIDS

The ANZAC ancestors are coming for my god-damn kids? Oh 5hit!

Isn't it sad when people try to (mis) represent what someone else might think. Especially in this context. You could equally say that they would be dissapointed in the arseholes that won't do the thing required to help the majority out... just like they helped the majority out. Sounds more likely than your half arsed assertion.

they did, you moron, news was tacked to the trunks of trees
and when they got there
they realised
it was all a lie...
for phucks sake, Gallipoli was a deliberate turkey shoot..... get it....? turkey shoot.

I am not arguing with you about world war one. I agree I think. People went to fight a war and what was the reason for it? It doesn't discount the courage that the soldiers had to go off and fight it.

I was trying to listen to an audio book about the reason for WW1 and the underlying background at the time, but the book is so boring and the narrator is so boring that I can't use it for anything other than an aid to falling asleep. You think my posts are boring, try this book. It's called 'The Sleepwalkers' and I assumed it was about people walking into this conflict without realising it, but now I think its about people after having listened to this book.

That was a time when world news coverage meant at least a week delay for people to send the story and someone to publish it. Plus there would have been minimal detail. Today we can get full colour coverage instantly and hundreds of people with cellphone cameras to corroborate things. It's much harder to hide things these days and pretty hard to keep a lid on something unless you have total control.

If anyone knows a good book on the background of why WW1 started, as a summary, please tell me.

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Carantoc said..

Tequila ! said..
Still now no one have balls to admit their fault at this mess. Unfortunately its a characteristic of us (blame shifting).

From what I read of the court case (and saw when the live stream was working) the fault in this lies with the judge.

How he came up with 'release and return his visa immediately', I am buggered if I can work it out.

What was the judge meant to be ruling on anyway? That the process was unfair/wrong/incorrect or that he deserved a visa?

That the cancellation of his visa was not lawful.

Mr Djokovic submits that the Purported Decision (to cancel his visa) was affected by a variety of jurisdictional errors, as set out in his proposed Amended Originating Application dated 07 January 2022 ("AOA"), and as developed hereunder.12 He seeks that this Court quash the Purported Decision and associated relief as set out in the AOA

The judge essentially found section 119(1) which allows appeal against cancellation of a visa prior to arrival or release from immigration was not followed i.e. that;

b) invite the holder to show within a specified time that:
or (ii) there is a reason why it should not be cancelled."

as the "specified time limit" was cut short by the border officials and he didn't have until 8.30am as they said he did.

A. The respondent concedes that the delegate's decision to proceed with the interview and make a decision to cancel the applicant's visa pursuant to s 116 of the Migration Act 1958 (Cth) was unreasonable in circumstances where:
(1) at 5:20am on 6 January 2022 the applicant was told that he could have until 8.30am to provide comments in response to a notice of intention to consider cancellation under s 116 of the Migration Act 1958 (Cth);
(2) instead, the applicant's comments were then sought at about 6:14am.
(3) the delegate's decision to cancel the applicant's visa was made at 7.42am;
(4) the applicant was thus denied until 8.30am to make comments;
(5) had the applicant been allowed until 8:30am, he could have consulted others and made further submissions to the delegate about why his visa should not be cancelled.



www.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/95058/Order-Djokovic-v-Minister-MLG35-of-2022_10-January-2022-003.pdf

www.fcfcoa.gov.au/sites/default/files/2022-01/MLG%2035%20of%202022%20-%20Applicant%27s%20submissions.pdf

www.fcfcoa.gov.au/migration-law/online-file/djokovic


Note that no ruling was made on the rest of Novak's arguments (which included stuff such as : that essentially the requirement to be vaccinated is unlawful, that unvaxxed pose no actual risk to the community or other person, that you can't combine separate sections of law into one assessment, they have to be each taken separately, that approval to enter the tennis comp is approval to enter the country etc. etc.)

Hence the ruling was one of procedure only (and a seemingly interesting interpretation of the transcripts and "specified time"), not one of vax laws, medical exemptions or anything else.

Jim's mowing now does Bitcoin recovery?

That Jim guy is pretty enterprising.

Select to expand quote

Carantoc said..
That the cancellation of his visa was not lawful.
...

Hence the ruling was one of procedure only (and a seemingly interesting interpretation of the transcripts and "specified time"), not one of vax laws, medical exemptions or anything else.

So, its pretty reasonable then. If the process hadn't been followed correctly, then the judge has said so.

Personally I think the Australian government is better off saying that they need to be better at immigration processes and that for the good of the nation they will allow the visa to stand and for him to compete. Anything else would just look poor.

Plus, they are part of a world-wide conspiracy, and they could just give him Covid and make him isolate for a couple of weeks.

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FormulaNova said..
So, its pretty reasonable then. If the process hadn't been followed correctly, then the judge has said so.

'reasonable' depending on your interpretation of two points.

First is if procedure was followed. Procedure is that he is given a "specified time" to argue why it shouldn't be cancelled. Bearing in mind all the valid documents must have been submitted prior to this "specified time". This time isn't for arguing why you should have a visa, but why it shouldn't be cancelled. In the interview transcript there are various discussions about Novak wanting until 7.00 or 7.30am, wanting several hours, border mentioning 8.30am and Novak saying he has nothing extra to add to what has already been provided / said. Border official then states that as no further info will be provided (as Novak stated) that they will make a decision. He was given 'time" to argue his case, just that the decision was made prior to 8.30am.

Judge took the 8.30am as the "specified time" (not another time or duration mentioned) and also assumed that something else could have been provided / said, despite Novak confirming he had nothing else to provide / say.


Second is the ruling that he be released and visa returned and no more immigration issue.

If the assessment is he wasn't provided enough time, there is zero reason I can see why that time can't be provided now, as the ruling. i.e. cancellation of the visa is suspended for two hours after the ruling and border force must re-assess with any new information he can provide. Anything that could have been provided by 8.30am on the day he was detained can be provided by 8.30am tomorrow morning. To me the judge seemed to have a dislike of border officials / system / government or something and so took a procedural breach to result in invalidation of the entire system.

Bet it wouldn't have worked the otherway. If Novak had put the wrong date on the application form but everything else checked out would he have been immediately deported with no ground of appeal of right to correct a mistake ?

Don't get me wrong here - the whole thing is bollocks and I'd let him in originally and I'd not deport him now, but that's not my argument. My argument is about interpretation of the law, not validity or sanity of the law.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..
Personally I think the Australian government is better off saying that they need to be better at immigration processes,

Yep, the case implies that officials need to remove the ambiguity around "specified time" and put a actual duration in their guidelines.

Assuming it isn't there already, although there is reference to them having to provide a minimum of ten minutes in the transcripts, so maybe there is a minimum specified time of 10 minutes already in the procedures ??.

In which case the official mentioning that if Novak wants until "7.00" or a "couple more hours" that "8.30am would be OK" was a mis-step during the interview procedure.


I just can't really see that a conversational misstep on how much time he might want cancels all other aspects of the laws and regulations, when he also states that the extra time won't provide any more documentation relevant to his case.

Unless of course you decide to hold a border official to 100% jobs-worth standards and you hold a professional tennis player accustomed to travelling the world and having managers and agents to manage his affairs and also who publically states he is going to not follow the law all the freedom possible to be a dick-head.

That saved me a lot of reading Carantoc, thanks for summarising.

still would like to know if he told the schoolkids he was hanging with on the day he got a positive covid test, family dodged that one while complaining about the torture.

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..
That saved me a lot of reading Carantoc, thanks for summarising.

still would like to know if he told the schoolkids he was hanging with on the day he got a positive covid test, family dodged that one while complaining about the torture.

Ahh, no, I think you will find he got Covid from the school kids... uh huh, yeah, that's it

I worry about people that demand that there be protests in the street because their child is being told they are wrong, and then turn around and ignore the question about why he was exposing others to Covid. There are some stubborn people in this world that would argue black is blue if it suits their argument and logic and 'right' doesn't come into it.

I wonder if the Tennis Australia officials will have a talking to, to explain why they did what they did?

Realistically its bad PR to let this go on anymore and to exclude him now would just look petty. It would probably cost even more money, so who wins?

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FormulaNova said..

CH3MTR4IL5 said..
That saved me a lot of reading Carantoc, thanks for summarising.

still would like to know if he told the schoolkids he was hanging with on the day he got a positive covid test, family dodged that one while complaining about the torture.

Ahh, no, I think you will find he got Covid from the school kids... uh huh, yeah, that's it

I worry about people that demand that there be protests in the street because their child is being told they are wrong, and then turn around and ignore the question about why he was exposing others to Covid. There are some stubborn people in this world that would argue black is blue if it suits their argument and logic and 'right' doesn't come into it.

I wonder if the Tennis Australia officials will have a talking to, to explain why they did what they did?

Realistically its bad PR to let this go on anymore and to exclude him now would just look petty. It would probably cost even more money, so who wins?

They should drop the witch hunting...this is a lost battle to save face now.

Let him play.

Maybe we were strung along all this time by TA to increase ratings

Usually I dont bother watching. But will when he will play. Champions excel during tough situations, sure will be entertaining.

If Novax had Covid 18 months ago and a new case last month we should all take the lesson that natural immunity doesn't look like it lasts any better than vaccine immunity.
Has he been tested to be sure that he isn't still infectious?

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Mr Milk said..
If Novax had Covid 18 months ago and a new case last month we should all take the lesson that natural immunity doesn't look like it lasts any better than vaccine immunity.
Has he been tested to be sure that he isn't still infectious?

Theres at least two other lessons in what you've just said. but neither of them fit in with the fear mongering stupidity that we're now living with.


this whole debacle with Novak is pathetic. It's not good where this whole thing is going.

Pretty sure when Novax arrived we had no cases. He lands & instantly we've got a million infected. Send him home so we can get back to zero.

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Subsonic said..

Mr Milk said..
If Novax had Covid 18 months ago and a new case last month we should all take the lesson that natural immunity doesn't look like it lasts any better than vaccine immunity.
Has he been tested to be sure that he isn't still infectious?

Theres at least two other lessons in what you've just said. but neither of them fit in with the fear mongering stupidity that we're now living with.


this whole debacle with Novak is pathetic. It's not good where this whole thing is going.

I don't want implications, I want facts!

What were the two other lessons? Are they going to show the world is controlled by lizards or how incompetent government can be when left to its own devices?


Facts or memes. Whichever.

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FormulaNova said..

Subsonic said..

Mr Milk said..
If Novax had Covid 18 months ago and a new case last month we should all take the lesson that natural immunity doesn't look like it lasts any better than vaccine immunity.
Has he been tested to be sure that he isn't still infectious?

Theres at least two other lessons in what you've just said. but neither of them fit in with the fear mongering stupidity that we're now living with.


this whole debacle with Novak is pathetic. It's not good where this whole thing is going.

I don't want implications, I want facts!

What were the two other lessons? Are they going to show the world is controlled by lizards or how incompetent government can be when left to its own devices?


Facts or memes. Whichever.

Fact is, vaccinated or previously infected you could still catch it.

Did Mr Djokovic test negative to covid on arrival?
I suppose not that important as he will probably be positive by the time he leaves

Just in the local Woolies in Geraldton, people must be shiitting themselves.

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Mr Milk said..
If Novax had Covid 18 months ago and a new case last month we should all take the lesson that natural immunity doesn't look like it lasts any better than vaccine immunity.
Has he been tested to be sure that he isn't still infectious?

These vaccines have never protected you against infection. Remember, it was 90-something% effective against serious illness and death, and really that's all we should care about. Case numbers are up? So what? How many people are getting put into hospital or the morgue. Vaccine and chill, bitches.

That would be a separate test to testing "positive" and I don't think anyone does it. It's just assumed that testing positive = infectious so off to quarantine with you.

"Vaccine and chill" Really?!
I'm about half the man I was two months ago and it's not getting any better. I didn't want your mandate. I've got a string of doctors appointments, each one costs me a day off work. I feel like I could have a heart attack at any moment.
The risk isn't zero. Your comment minimises my experience.

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psychojoe said..
"Vaccine and chill" Really?!
I'm about half the man I was two months ago and it's not getting any better. I didn't want your mandate. I've got a string of doctors appointments, each one costs me a day off work. I feel like I could have a heart attack at any moment.
The risk isn't zero. Your comment minimises my experience.

Sorry to hear psychojoe hope you recover soon.

if you can't see it now,
I'm sorry for you
if you've had it
you know you feel different, not the same
be honest with yourself
if you haven't had it
get ready