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ptFoil20 said..

Piros said..
First generation ALi mast to fuse are 90 degress needs a wedge or shim for the Kujira, the 2nd generation Ali mast ( its wider ) has an angle built in to the Fuse to incresae the angle of attack on the Kujira so no shim or wedge required. The Carbon mast is also at 90 degrees so needs a shim or wedge which the new ones come supplied with . The shim or wedge packs the back base of the foil plate on the board ( gives more lift) . When we tow on the 980 or 750 we actually reverse the wedge to get less lift , it lets us maintain higher speeds through critical sections .

I tried prone surfing the 1210 today with the stock base wedge and tail shim and found it had too much lift for my preference. Felt heavily front footed, I had to shift my stance forward. I'm 180lbs, about 82kilo. Rode chest to shoulder high in "punchy" surf. (Should have went with the 980 but wanted something for tiny surf)
Felt a little better without the base wedge and pushed the mast back quite a bit. should I try and reverse the base wedge and take off the tail shim? Looking for something more even footed.

At 220 lbs I have been pretty happy proning the 1210 without any base or tail shims, most of the way back in the finbox. This has worked for me up to head high, in the bigger surf it is manageable, but feels like there is too much flex in the mast to wing connection. the 1210 has been a do everything wing for me, but once the 980 is available as a single wing purchase I'll get it.

So what's the deal, I'm 200lbs w a 5mm wetsuit on and when I looked at the 980, it looked like a tow wing, big surf, or high wind wing only. I hear stories of big guys using them though-looks tiny. Is there any size wing that the lift could be compared to from any of the other Setups(axis, armstrong, Slingshot, etc)

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martyman said..
So what's the deal, I'm 200lbs w a 5mm wetsuit on and when I looked at the 980, it looked like a tow wing, big surf, or high wind wing only. I hear stories of big guys using them though-looks tiny. Is there any size wing that the lift could be compared to from any of the other Setups(axis, armstrong, Slingshot, etc)

At your weight, unless you tow or surf head high and + waves regularly, i would definitely go for the 1210.

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mcrt said..

martyman said..
So what's the deal, I'm 200lbs w a 5mm wetsuit on and when I looked at the 980, it looked like a tow wing, big surf, or high wind wing only. I hear stories of big guys using them though-looks tiny. Is there any size wing that the lift could be compared to from any of the other Setups(axis, armstrong, Slingshot, etc)

At your weight, unless you tow or surf head high and + waves regularly, i would definitely go for the 1210.

Thanks, I'm on the 1210 and 1440 already. I was wondering if I "needed" the 980 as well.

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martyman said..
So what's the deal, I'm 200lbs w a 5mm wetsuit on and when I looked at the 980, it looked like a tow wing, big surf, or high wind wing only. I hear stories of big guys using them though-looks tiny. Is there any size wing that the lift could be compared to from any of the other Setups(axis, armstrong, Slingshot, etc)

I'm riding at 200+wetsuit. The 980 is awesome and I would ride it in any surf unless it is really tiny. For sure I'm taking it out if there is any size or steepness. You need speed to make it work, but then it really is super smooth and does everything you want on the wave. And it can carry that speed on the smallest of ripple once its going. The only issue is it is fairly demanding to pump - not energy wise, but technique wise. I can pump it around for 2for1s but if I make any mistake or lose a little speed it's done. Exit with speed and keep the speed and pumping works totally fine. I ride the 1210 if I think I want to pump a lot - only a small downgrade in riding on the wave but much more forgiving to pump. I can recover from mistakes and pump it back out of a hole and up to speed again. If you're not pumping, get the 980.

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jondrums said..

martyman said..
So what's the deal, I'm 200lbs w a 5mm wetsuit on and when I looked at the 980, it looked like a tow wing, big surf, or high wind wing only. I hear stories of big guys using them though-looks tiny. Is there any size wing that the lift could be compared to from any of the other Setups(axis, armstrong, Slingshot, etc)

I'm riding at 200+wetsuit. The 980 is awesome and I would ride it in any surf unless it is really tiny. For sure I'm taking it out if there is any size or steepness. You need speed to make it work, but then it really is super smooth and does everything you want on the wave. And it can carry that speed on the smallest of ripple once its going. The only issue is it is fairly demanding to pump - not energy wise, but technique wise. I can pump it around for 2for1s but if I make any mistake or lose a little speed it's done. Exit with speed and keep the speed and pumping works totally fine. I ride the 1210 if I think I want to pump a lot - only a small downgrade in riding on the wave but much more forgiving to pump. I can recover from mistakes and pump it back out of a hole and up to speed again. If you're not pumping, get the 980.

nicely put, thanks jondrums

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exiled said..

ptFoil20 said..

Piros said..
First generation ALi mast to fuse are 90 degress needs a wedge or shim for the Kujira, the 2nd generation Ali mast ( its wider ) has an angle built in to the Fuse to incresae the angle of attack on the Kujira so no shim or wedge required. The Carbon mast is also at 90 degrees so needs a shim or wedge which the new ones come supplied with . The shim or wedge packs the back base of the foil plate on the board ( gives more lift) . When we tow on the 980 or 750 we actually reverse the wedge to get less lift , it lets us maintain higher speeds through critical sections .

I tried prone surfing the 1210 today with the stock base wedge and tail shim and found it had too much lift for my preference. Felt heavily front footed, I had to shift my stance forward. I'm 180lbs, about 82kilo. Rode chest to shoulder high in "punchy" surf. (Should have went with the 980 but wanted something for tiny surf)
Felt a little better without the base wedge and pushed the mast back quite a bit. should I try and reverse the base wedge and take off the tail shim? Looking for something more even footed.

At 220 lbs I have been pretty happy proning the 1210 without any base or tail shims, most of the way back in the finbox. This has worked for me up to head high, in the bigger surf it is manageable, but feels like there is too much flex in the mast to wing connection. the 1210 has been a do everything wing for me, but once the 980 is available as a single wing purchase I'll get it.

Yah, I tried it yest pushed almost all the way back. Again no base wedge. Much better, going to move the mast slowly forward with the smaller surf this week and play without the tail shim. thank you guys, much appreciated the input.

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ptFoil20 said..

exiled said..

ptFoil20 said..

Piros said..
First generation ALi mast to fuse are 90 degress needs a wedge or shim for the Kujira, the 2nd generation Ali mast ( its wider ) has an angle built in to the Fuse to incresae the angle of attack on the Kujira so no shim or wedge required. The Carbon mast is also at 90 degrees so needs a shim or wedge which the new ones come supplied with . The shim or wedge packs the back base of the foil plate on the board ( gives more lift) . When we tow on the 980 or 750 we actually reverse the wedge to get less lift , it lets us maintain higher speeds through critical sections .

I tried prone surfing the 1210 today with the stock base wedge and tail shim and found it had too much lift for my preference. Felt heavily front footed, I had to shift my stance forward. I'm 180lbs, about 82kilo. Rode chest to shoulder high in "punchy" surf. (Should have went with the 980 but wanted something for tiny surf)
Felt a little better without the base wedge and pushed the mast back quite a bit. should I try and reverse the base wedge and take off the tail shim? Looking for something more even footed.

At 220 lbs I have been pretty happy proning the 1210 without any base or tail shims, most of the way back in the finbox. This has worked for me up to head high, in the bigger surf it is manageable, but feels like there is too much flex in the mast to wing connection. the 1210 has been a do everything wing for me, but once the 980 is available as a single wing purchase I'll get it.

Yah, I tried it yest pushed almost all the way back. Again no base wedge. Much better, going to move the mast slowly forward with the smaller surf this week and play without the tail shim. thank you guys, much appreciated the input.

For the lighter weight foilers, I'm approx 73kg (160 pounds) and have been riding prone on the 1210/13" KD tail with mast plate shim with foil pushed all the way forward in the boxes in 0.5 to 1ft surf & it goes unreal.

When I first jumped from Armstrong to Takuma it definitely felt very front footed but now I'm getting used to the Kujira's have started to slide it forward like I have with all other foils I've owned.

Sure at 73kg you could get away with just having the 980 but the 1210 is really fun in tiny waves

What's your performance comparison between army and takuma kujira ??

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eppo said..
What's your performance comparison between army and takuma kujira ??

The Kujira's pump better and handle wing tip breaching really well....this is the main reason I changed brands. They are also super smooth & forgiving that makes progression easier imo.

I think where Armstrong may have the edge is hitting white water & easier to make take off's in steeper waves.

I am no hotshot on the wing or the prone but here's my experience with Armstrong/Takuma:

I rode the LOL 1600 as a beginner and then switched to Armstrong thinking they were better...but they were only better built.

The HS1850 was easy and friendly but a bit boring and staid,and it did not take breaching well at all.

The HS1250 was a total bellyflop for me, it required much better skills but did not give much back in return.Nitpicky on Wing takeoff,superdraggy if you sunk a bit on the mast and forget about breaching.Never chopped it.

Their biggest plus was prone surf takeoffs, they handled the drop in really nicely without wanting to overfoil,even the HS1850 and i am 70-75kg.

But the way they behave when increasing speed felt unintuitive and became annoying for me,more back foot as you go faster is not surflike IMHO.A surfboard wants more rail engaged when you turn at speed,or it bounces you out.

So i went back to the LOL ,which has a bit too much initial lift but is super carvey and just makes you want to play.
And then the Kujira 1210, which is all i ride now.Great glide,great turns,no breaching hysterics and that Takuma "enjoy me" feel.Just love it.

Wish Armstrong built Takuma designs ,best of both worlds.

I think Armie has a bit of a problem with it's current lineup.Takuma,SPG ,GoFoil and even Gong have better foils for allround ,"freeride" use.

I have not ridden the armie HA but i am not interested in something so wide for its area.I see vids of people surfing it and it does not look very inspiring.

Cheers fellas good info.

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mcrt said..
I am no hotshot on the wing or the prone but here's my experience with Armstrong/Takuma:

I rode the LOL 1600 as a beginner and then switched to Armstrong thinking they were better...but they were only better built.

The HS1850 was easy and friendly but a bit boring and staid,and it did not take breaching well at all.

The HS1250 was a total bellyflop for me, it required much better skills but did not give much back in return.Nitpicky on Wing takeoff,superdraggy if you sunk a bit on the mast and forget about breaching.Never chopped it.

Their biggest plus was prone surf takeoffs, they handled the drop in really nicely without wanting to overfoil,even the HS1850 and i am 70-75kg.

But the way they behave when increasing speed felt unintuitive and became annoying for me,more back foot as you go faster is not surflike IMHO.A surfboard wants more rail engaged when you turn at speed,or it bounces you out.

So i went back to the LOL ,which has a bit too much initial lift but is super carvey and just makes you want to play.
And then the Kujira 1210, which is all i ride now.Great glide,great turns,no breaching hysterics and that Takuma "enjoy me" feel.Just love it.

Wish Armstrong built Takuma designs ,best of both worlds.

I think Armie has a bit of a problem with it's current lineup.Takuma,SPG ,GoFoil and even Gong have better foils for allround ,"freeride" use.

I have not ridden the armie HA but i am not interested in something so wide for its area.I see vids of people surfing it and it does not look very inspiring.

So what about the over all weight difference between an Armstong & Takuma set up then ?:-)

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mcrt said..The HS1250 was a total bellyflop for me, it required much better skills but did not give much back in return.Nitpicky on Wing takeoff,superdraggy if you sunk a bit on the mast and forget about breaching.Never chopped it.

What tail did you use?

HS232 tail ,with 0 and +1 shims.
I did not play with mast plate shims though, probably would have helped with the wing takeoff behaviour.
Foil all the way forward,still felt like i had too much nose in front when riding.

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Johndesu said..
So what about the over all weight difference between an Armstong & Takuma set up then ?:-)

Armstrong was lighter than my Takuma Full carbon setup,never weighed them but noticeable when carrying the gear around.

And the Armie mast is stiffer, i like the Takuma flex for the feel in turns but for going fast stiffnes felt better.

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mcrt said..
HS232 tail ,with 0 and +1 shims.
I did not play with mast plate shims though, probably would have helped with the wing takeoff behaviour.
Foil all the way forward,still felt like i had too much nose in front when riding.

Yeh felt the same on a couple of boards I used that wouldn't go any further forward. Third board was better but still. Added the minus 2 shim and all the issues went away. It's a mast placement issue and / or a shim issue. I have a chopped 1250 and a non chopped. It's all I use.

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eppo said..
Yeh felt the same on a couple of boards I used that wouldn't go any further forward. Third board was better but still. Added the minus 2 shim and all the issues went away. It's a mast placement issue and / or a shim issue. I have a chopped 1250 and a non chopped. It's all I use.

Yes,to be fair to the Armie foils ,many boards have the boxes too far back to get good balance with any foil brand.
Armstrong has taken a big step forward with their new boards.

Takuma has the foil further in front of the mast, at first i hated this but as i got a bit better it was a godsend.

Once you get used to riding with a more centered stance it makes any board a lot more fun and responsive.

Can one learn to sup/wing foil on a Kujira 1440?

Don't want to buy a learning foil just to let it unused a a few weeks later. I was wondering if a bigger foil wing can be a good compromise or if I have unrealistic expectations....

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1fox said..
Can one learn to sup/wing foil on a Kujira 1440?

Don't want to buy a learning foil just to let it unused a a few weeks later. I was wondering if a bigger foil wing can be a good compromise or if I have unrealistic expectations....

Have not ridden it,may be a tad hi aspect to learn to wing on.Hi aspect needs more speed and angle control to rise.

Your weight,water sports background, fitness,local conditions and fighting spirit :) are major factors.

If you are around 65-90 kg i would consider the Kujira 1500 Helium,bigger and lower aspect ratio.

Or for 550eur the complete LOL1600 kit from Decathlon.It's alu & fiberglass but at that price point it is a steal.
Both will be challenging to wing on at first,but doable.

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mcrt said..

1fox said..
Can one learn to sup/wing foil on a Kujira 1440?

Don't want to buy a learning foil just to let it unused a a few weeks later. I was wondering if a bigger foil wing can be a good compromise or if I have unrealistic expectations....

Have not ridden it,may be a tad hi aspect to learn to wing on.Hi aspect needs more speed and angle control to rise.

Your weight,water sports background, fitness,local conditions and fighting spirit :) are major factors.

If you are around 65-90 kg i would consider the Kujira 1500 Helium,bigger and lower aspect ratio.

Or for 550eur the complete LOL1600 kit from Decathlon.It's alu & fiberglass but at that price point it is a steal.
Both will be challenging to wing on at first,but doable.

thank you for your advice!

With the lack of protective bags, how is everyone protecting their wings ? Keen to see what everyone is doing Not so keen to disassemble everytime and put the wings in the suitcase.

You can buy Takuma foil bags now. SurFX is now the Takuma dealer for Aus as well.

takuma.com/en/62-allhydro-foils-accesories

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Piros said..
You can buy Takuma foil bags now. SurFX is now the Takuma dealer for Aus as well.

takuma.com/en/62-allhydro-foils-accesories

Yeah I know but I don't think it's actually available anywhere...

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mcrt said..

1fox said..
Can one learn to sup/wing foil on a Kujira 1440?

Don't want to buy a learning foil just to let it unused a a few weeks later. I was wondering if a bigger foil wing can be a good compromise or if I have unrealistic expectations....

Have not ridden it,may be a tad hi aspect to learn to wing on.Hi aspect needs more speed and angle control to rise.

Your weight,water sports background, fitness,local conditions and fighting spirit :) are major factors.

If you are around 65-90 kg i would consider the Kujira 1500 Helium,bigger and lower aspect ratio.

Or for 550eur the complete LOL1600 kit from Decathlon.It's alu & fiberglass but at that price point it is a steal.
Both will be challenging to wing on at first,but doable.

I have both the 1210 and 1440. You absolutely can use either to learn and grow into.
I have heard the 1500 helium is more affordable and beginner friendly as well.

Has anyone here chopped or heard of anyone chopping the kujira stab? I was basically Forced to by both stab and front wing if you want to buy a (different) wingset. So stupid.

First post here. I read through this thread leading up to trying a friends Kujira 1210 setup with the KD tail. Was hoping it would up my prone downwind abilities coming from a lift 170 HA (with 25 glide on the back) ... but was honestly let down. Definitely felt the added weight of aluminum vs. the full carbon lift setup. Pumping felt about the same, glide felt similar... the Kujira felt smoother through white water but it wasn't game changing as far as pumping & glide. Maybe the 1210 with full carbon would be a noticeable difference ? But def not willing to invest that much if it's not game changing. Still love the Lift setup, and plan to get back to the 120 HA when my new boards ready (with the mast tracks further forward to accommodate the smaller wing). If your'e trying to decide between the two, I'd personally recommend Lift as at least to my knowledge there doesn't seem to be another wing that's comparable to the 120 which is insane when it's dialed in.

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Alysum said..
With the lack of protective bags, how is everyone protecting their wings ? Keen to see what everyone is doing Not so keen to disassemble everytime and put the wings in the suitcase.

I have the 980, 1210 and 1440 -- I cut the form in the centre in each foil wing bag (suitcase) to the depth of the cut out for the wing so I can place the wing in the bag as per normal and leave the fuse attached with the stab in place -- just zip it up. For the stabs I cover them with old socks and use an elastic to hold them on -- not very sexy but it works. The wings are protected and set up is quick -- just set the fuse on the mast and insert and tighten the three screws and you're ready to go.

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martyman said..
Has anyone here chopped or heard of anyone chopping the kujira stab? I was basically Forced to by both stab and front wing if you want to buy a (different) wingset. So stupid.

www.instagram.com/tv/CSuRLZJAzlw/?utm_medium=copy_link

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Alysum said..
With the lack of protective bags, how is everyone protecting their wings ? Keen to see what everyone is doing Not so keen to disassemble everytime and put the wings in the suitcase.

I cut tennis balls to protect the ends. Now I can put it on the floor and won't hurt myself if I bump into the (crazy sharp) ends. Also works well for transport. I take the mast off though as it won't fit into the car fully assembled.