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dachopper said..

coxy31 said..

dachopper said..

INTHELOOP said..

Loftywinds said...

dachopper said..
$200 carbon foil MOD 2 nearly completed
Added removable mast to this one, longer fuselage.

Where did you get the carbon material from may I ask? PM if necessary. Cheers

We got source carbon ask Clint. Cheaper then anywhere else


$200 carbon is not much carbon in a foil.

The KFA foil is 3.3kg of solid carbon!

Sollar Composites . com

I tried buying in Aus and was going to get absolutely slaughtered. I mean it was something like 49 Cents a meter for Carbon Tow in Aus , vs 12 USD for 2000 feet of it from Sollar !




3.3Kg is quite heavy for a carbon foil ! Solid carbon is always going to be heavier and $$$ because of more carbon than using a laminate,

If you were worried abut weight, you should have made it hollow ;)

Or used less carbon

This makes me laugh!!!!
Marvin has had his foils on nearly all the podiums of international races since the beginning, utilising a team of composite engineers, naval architect and shipwrights in some of the this countries and now worlds highest regarded facilities and you are trying to offer him laminate and design advice after popping out 2 half arsed protos???
Pleeeeaasseee tell me your joking???

Joking about what??

He's done a great job at creating a startup business. It's a shame we don't have the facilities or expertise to do it in Australia, and yeah - I was never giving him advice on how to build the worlds' most expensive, fastest, strongest, lightest, made in the worlds' best yacht building yards on earth racing foils -

I was giving him advice on how to make a foil for $200, and facts are you don't need 3.8kg and $3800 AUS to do it,
as they say " the proof is in the pudding ", I'm test riding my " half arsed home designed and built proto" tomorrow or the next day.

If it rides better than any of the production foils that cost 5 to 15 times as much, really says something about the current state of "the best naval engineering minds really." like the ones that made the last batch of semi-foiling Vende yachts, which all sustained structural failures, and I am sure, had a significantly higher number of engineers, designers, R&D, and prototyping than carbon race foils

Creating a startup business really!!
Mate we do have the facilities and so called "expertise" in aus, i for one work in one of those facilities i think it comes down to the consumer not wanting to pay that little extra as to why we don't see much built in production here anymore, that goes for anything composite really..
Fact is you cannot build a foil that is 5 to 15 times cheaper than anything currently on the marked in production form that is refined enough to work and reliable enough to offer some sort of warranty and sell to the public and not go broke in the process!!!
I have access to all the free carbon,Kevlar,pre preg,epoxy,materials i could ever need to make a foil, we have lathe, oven, vacuum, infusion and autoclave technology at work also, at the end of the day for me to build a composite foil setup comparable to anything in production would be at least 5 times your $200 budget just in my time!!!
I totally respect what your trying to do in building your own foils and offer you nothing but praise for having a go but its really time to start comparing oranges with oranges.. I've included a few photos below to prove the point..
P.s i see Alex Thompson is currently touching 30knots across the atlantic in the dark, gee those semi foiling IMOCAS are under some load they might not of got it right the first time but yep they will get there thats a given

Coxy, I agree totally with what you are saying. You can't manufacture a product using the current manufacturing methods in Australia, because the cost of labor is the highest on the planet - unless you do the whole thing yourself.

Find a way to minimize the labor time component and then the manufacturing sector will grow.
Unfortunately it's very easy to offshore labor, and very difficult to invent or renew an alternative manufacturing method that requires less labor.

Fast forward 10 years time, and titanium 3d printing will be in, cost per KG should reduce down by at least 50%, and with a little CAD experience, you can spend the time designing rather than building.

Got to ride a Double Agent today . . . I assume it's a typical model and not out of whack somehow.

Only comparison I can make is with my LF Fun Foil. Usual caveat that it's all my impressions and opinions.

The Double Agent:
. . . is lighter. I could tell as soon as I picked it up, even without a side-by-side. Even when the LF mast is not full of water
. . . has a welded fuselage. Eh?
. . . lets you know it's up to foiling speed by whistling loudly at you
. . . is nice and stable. Which is good (for learning) and bad (it's boring) . . .
. . . is very, very slow. Acceleration is slow, take-off speed feels slightly higher and cruising/top speed is lower than the LF.
. . . feels quite draggy. Needed some good power from the kite to get moving up to take-off speed and doesn't build apparent wind easily.
. . . doesn't point upwind as high or as easily. May be technique.
. . . jibes nicely. Narrower wing means I didn't vent the tips Lazy me.
. . . board is overall the better out of the two. Would do the double-up skimboard-thing job better as it's got more surface area, I think, and I like the three straps better while foiling. The "volume" of the LF reduces sinking when the touching down at low speed, but the wider DA is easier to get feet around on if you keep the speed up.

I prefer the LF as it's faster(!), smoother, and despite being a more twitchy, is paradoxically easier to ride. Might see if I can nab the board and try it with the LF foil. . . .

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Kamikuza said..
Got to ride a Double Agent today . . . I assume it's a typical model and not out of whack somehow.

Only comparison I can make is with my LF Fun Foil. Usual caveat that it's all my impressions and opinions.

The Double Agent:
. . . is lighter. I could tell as soon as I picked it up, even without a side-by-side. Even when the LF mast is not full of water
. . . has a welded fuselage. Eh?
. . . lets you know it's up to foiling speed by whistling loudly at you
. . . is nice and stable. Which is good (for learning) and bad (it's boring) . . .
. . . is very, very slow. Acceleration is slow, take-off speed feels slightly higher and cruising/top speed is lower than the LF.
. . . feels quite draggy. Needed some good power from the kite to get moving up to take-off speed and doesn't build apparent wind easily.
. . . doesn't point upwind as high or as easily. May be technique.
. . . jibes nicely. Narrower wing means I didn't vent the tips Lazy me.
. . . board is overall the better out of the two. Would do the double-up skimboard-thing job better as it's got more surface area, I think, and I like the three straps better while foiling. The "volume" of the LF reduces sinking when the touching down at low speed, but the wider DA is easier to get feet around on if you keep the speed up.

I prefer the LF as it's faster(!), smoother, and despite being a more twitchy, is paradoxically easier to ride. Might see if I can nab the board and try it with the LF foil. . . .

slower than the LF foil? oh dear..

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INTHELOOP said..

Kamikuza said..
Got to ride a Double Agent today . . . I assume it's a typical model and not out of whack somehow.

Only comparison I can make is with my LF Fun Foil. Usual caveat that it's all my impressions and opinions.

The Double Agent:
. . . is lighter. I could tell as soon as I picked it up, even without a side-by-side. Even when the LF mast is not full of water
. . . has a welded fuselage. Eh?
. . . lets you know it's up to foiling speed by whistling loudly at you
. . . is nice and stable. Which is good (for learning) and bad (it's boring) . . .
. . . is very, very slow. Acceleration is slow, take-off speed feels slightly higher and cruising/top speed is lower than the LF.
. . . feels quite draggy. Needed some good power from the kite to get moving up to take-off speed and doesn't build apparent wind easily.
. . . doesn't point upwind as high or as easily. May be technique.
. . . jibes nicely. Narrower wing means I didn't vent the tips Lazy me.
. . . board is overall the better out of the two. Would do the double-up skimboard-thing job better as it's got more surface area, I think, and I like the three straps better while foiling. The "volume" of the LF reduces sinking when the touching down at low speed, but the wider DA is easier to get feet around on if you keep the speed up.

I prefer the LF as it's faster(!), smoother, and despite being a more twitchy, is paradoxically easier to ride. Might see if I can nab the board and try it with the LF foil. . . .

slower than the LF foil? oh dear..

Yeah I was surprised, given the similarity of design. The wings have these weird bends in them so I doubt that helpsl makes them seemmreally thick.

Good for beginner though, but I think you really want something else soon, or anytime you tried different kit

Am hoping to get on the Hover Glide too. I wonder if that will seem like the leap from DA to LFFF. . . .

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Kamikuza said..

INTHELOOP said..

Kamikuza said..
Got to ride a Double Agent today . . . I assume it's a typical model and not out of whack somehow.

Only comparison I can make is with my LF Fun Foil. Usual caveat that it's all my impressions and opinions.

The Double Agent:
. . . is lighter. I could tell as soon as I picked it up, even without a side-by-side. Even when the LF mast is not full of water
. . . has a welded fuselage. Eh?
. . . lets you know it's up to foiling speed by whistling loudly at you
. . . is nice and stable. Which is good (for learning) and bad (it's boring) . . .
. . . is very, very slow. Acceleration is slow, take-off speed feels slightly higher and cruising/top speed is lower than the LF.
. . . feels quite draggy. Needed some good power from the kite to get moving up to take-off speed and doesn't build apparent wind easily.
. . . doesn't point upwind as high or as easily. May be technique.
. . . jibes nicely. Narrower wing means I didn't vent the tips Lazy me.
. . . board is overall the better out of the two. Would do the double-up skimboard-thing job better as it's got more surface area, I think, and I like the three straps better while foiling. The "volume" of the LF reduces sinking when the touching down at low speed, but the wider DA is easier to get feet around on if you keep the speed up.

I prefer the LF as it's faster(!), smoother, and despite being a more twitchy, is paradoxically easier to ride. Might see if I can nab the board and try it with the LF foil. . . .

slower than the LF foil? oh dear..

Yeah I was surprised, given the similarity of design. The wings have these weird bends in them so I doubt that helpsl makes them seemmreally thick.

Good for beginner though, but I think you really want something else soon, or anytime you tried different kit

Am hoping to get on the Hover Glide too. I wonder if that will seem like the leap from DA to LFFF. . . .

I just moved from the LF to Hoverglide ...... The hoverglide requires more front foot pressure than the LF, is definitely less twitchy, but still feels roughly around the same speed as the LF.

I had no issues on it in 8/10 knots up to 25 knots. Very steady, easy to do toe side.

I attached the foil to a Paipo and a Rocket Fish. Both worked well.

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bigtone667 said..

I just moved from the LF to Hoverglide ...... The hoverglide requires more front foot pressure than the LF, is definitely less twitchy, but still feels roughly around the same speed as the LF.

I had no issues on it in 8/10 knots up to 25 knots. Very steady, easy to do toe side.

I attached the foil to a Paipo and a Rocket Fish. Both worked well.

The guy last week had it set all the way back on his Alien Air. Guess "front foot pressure" was why . . .

Does the HG do that annoying high-speed, slow-nose dive thing the LF does?

Seriously thinking about the HG as the price is right and I want a board with more volume for the Bf2 days . . .

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Kamikuza said..

bigtone667 said..

I just moved from the LF to Hoverglide ...... The hoverglide requires more front foot pressure than the LF, is definitely less twitchy, but still feels roughly around the same speed as the LF.

I had no issues on it in 8/10 knots up to 25 knots. Very steady, easy to do toe side.

I attached the foil to a Paipo and a Rocket Fish. Both worked well.

The guy last week had it set all the way back on his Alien Air. Guess "front foot pressure" was why . . .

Does the HG do that annoying high-speed, slow-nose dive thing the LF does?

Seriously thinking about the HG as the price is right and I want a board with more volume for the Bf2 days . . .

I mounted the foil as far back on the Rocket Fish as possible. I am completely in front of the foil now.

The hoverglide is very steady and I if "pitched forward" more than one every couple of hours I would be surprised.

Bringing the board back to the water is like watching a 747 Jumbo land. It can be hard to push the damn thing down, it just wants to stay up.

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bigtone667 said..

Kamikuza said..

bigtone667 said..

I just moved from the LF to Hoverglide ...... The hoverglide requires more front foot pressure than the LF, is definitely less twitchy, but still feels roughly around the same speed as the LF.

I had no issues on it in 8/10 knots up to 25 knots. Very steady, easy to do toe side.

I attached the foil to a Paipo and a Rocket Fish. Both worked well.

The guy last week had it set all the way back on his Alien Air. Guess "front foot pressure" was why . . .

Does the HG do that annoying high-speed, slow-nose dive thing the LF does?

Seriously thinking about the HG as the price is right and I want a board with more volume for the Bf2 days . . .

I mounted the foil as far back on the Rocket Fish as possible. I am completely in front of the foil now.

The hoverglide is very steady and I if "pitched forward" more than one every couple of hours I would be surprised.

Bringing the board back to the water is like watching a 747 Jumbo land. It can be hard to push the damn thing down, it just wants to stay up.

Sounds good to me :D

Can anyone compare the ride of the Hover Glide and the Zeeko B&W?

If you want cheap DIY but don't want to fly totally solo on the shaping, these guys have a kit for $150 US which is at the "glass & go" stage.

www.clearwaterfoils.com/

Looks stable enough..

Been foiling for a couple of years now and have tried a bunch of them - I learned on the LF Foil Fish and now ride the Sword2. In between have tried KFA mark 3, double agent, Zeeko Alluminium. In my opinion , the one that is relatively cheap with the best performance and transportability is the Zeeko aluminium by a country mile. stable in all directions and have had it up to 23 knots. Apparently both LF and Cabrinha are coming with improved beginner wing offerings which I haven't tried. If you can find a second hand Zeeko aluminium it's the way to go.........

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Kamikuza said..
Can anyone compare the ride of the Hover Glide and the Zeeko B&W?

Yes ...... I will do the three:

LF: original wing, good starter....
HG: big improvement over the LF but very heavy. So you need a floaty board!!!! A shinnster will not cut it.
Z Alu (Blue): Equivalent to the HG but a lot lighter. Attach it to an El Stubbo and you have a light weight alu foil with no swing weight.

I sold the LF.

Attached the HG to the LF Rocket Fish (enough float) and the Zeeko to the EL Stubbo.

The HG and Zeeko will get you going at 8 to 10 knots and quite good in 25+ (with the appropriate kite).

This is a custom stubby made by David which works perfectly on the Zeeko. 130cm x 44cm.....3 straps weighs 2.5kg
its the turned up nose and the thickness approx 2" that really make this work

Nice rig DC!

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kiteboy dave said...
If you want cheap DIY but don't want to fly totally solo on the shaping, these guys have a kit for $150 US which is at the "glass & go" stage.

www.clearwaterfoils.com/

Looks stable enough..

This looks like the starter kit for me cheap and fun to make. I've never foiled before so wondering if it's a good idea to add straps to something like this?

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daddycool said..



This is a custom stubby made by David which works perfectly on the Zeeko. 130cm x 44cm.....3 straps weighs 2.5kg
its the turned up nose and the thickness approx 2" that really make this work

Glad you like the build

You can borrow the carbon foil if you'd like to compare with the alloy.

Livit (David) - you,re a genius! THANKYOU
i bought this set up as I'm going to travelling a fair bit and it packs away so small. I was worried when I first saw it as its sooo short However , it works really well - easy to manoeuvre, easy to get up, no problems with nose diving With that great nose rocker. Amazing considering I'm 100kg! All I've done is replace the wax with a clear grip (NOWACS) . Have heard great reports about the carbon Zeeko aswell.....maybe we can swap boards down at the river one day this season. Also, I love the cork/glass construction and the paint job......

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noodelsrominov said..

kiteboy dave said...
If you want cheap DIY but don't want to fly totally solo on the shaping, these guys have a kit for $150 US which is at the "glass & go" stage.

www.clearwaterfoils.com/

Looks stable enough..

This looks like the starter kit for me cheap and fun to make. I've never foiled before so wondering if it's a good idea to add straps to something like this?

There a guy building one on another kites forum (extreme). He's a real sensitive soul though, so watch what you say

Straps make starting easy and jumping possible. You really only need a front strap if you're learning and have trouble starting strapless.

I dove into foiling on a Sword 1 so definitely not entry level..i've been out 5 times and am able to foil for maybe 100 or so meters on either tac but cannot seem to be point at a very high angle, over all, with all my crashes i stay pretty much level to my take off area without much effort. What should I be doing to get the upwind angle happening? The foil seems a lot more stable when i do happen to be pointing upwind.

I have my front foot in the strap and the back foot is just infront of the back strap. I have tried moving my foot back into the strap but then the whole rig seems waaay more unstable and wants to tip onto the heel side and I dont seem to get any angle for the moments i do get up in this position.

Any tips? i've got bruises up both legs from all the crashes

make sure your back foot is just behind the trailing edge of your mast . i find tuttle foils are not as tuneable as plates .

Dusta, i'll have a look as to where this point on my board is. Might be that the foot strap is too far back. Do i need to be pushing down wind with the back foot? Is a strap even required? Maybe i should just take the back on off to help keep the board flat..

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Green Cherub said...
Dusta, i'll have a look as to where this point on my board is. Might be that the foot strap is too far back. Do i need to be pushing down wind with the back foot? Is a strap even required? Maybe i should just take the back on off to help keep the board flat..

If you can get up and ride without the rear strap there is no harm in removing it. The stance you want is pretty neutral or even pressure on both legs - upwind or downwind. It maybe that your front strap is causing to stand too far forwards (or back).

Are you able to shuffle around on the board to find the balance point ? This is what I did to teach myself strapless foiling last summer.

Thanks kami, I'll check it out.

Decent deal on last manta/comet at TheKiteFoil.com.

This would suit someone who wants a new cheap foil & board combo and is looking at a Fish or Double Agent or Naish. Otherwise there's better deals in the buy & sell at the moment..

www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Kitesurfing-Shop%20Specials/~vbxu4/2016-Kfa-Mako-Vx601-102-cm-601-metre.aspx?search=svgIY39pEpS6tm7wci6brA==Bargain!

Been looking at making my own foil, basic low aspect to learn and bash around, and then decide whether to make the next step and save some pennies or just have it as an every now and then thing.Does anyone have a foil they had created/used that the would be looking to offload now theyve either decided against foiling, or moved to the next level in foiling, i would be interested, and it would also help in building my own.Hopefully someone can help me out!Cheers

Thinking of getting into foiling:

Do you guys think this is a good rig to start on?

www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Kitesurfing-Race%20boards/~v4xx_/2015-The-Kitefoil-Arrow-With-Pro-Race-Board.aspx?search=lH9XfdA4IG0gF2!fMCWhLQ==

This new zeeko is pretty interesting. A foil designed for waves, carving and jumping. Rides off the back foot. Mr Zeeko said it took between 30 & 50 prototypes, and also top speed around 27kts so still more than quick enough.

Looks really weird with canard design. Goes right in this pic.

Hi Dave,still got my L plates on.So will keep trying to crack a good run.I asked Tony "Railing
If fuselage and foils of the Zeeko Spitfire can be retrofitted to the Black &white or Blue & white
Foils.The Wave foil looks like more of the surfboard feel.