I've been a long time stalker on Seabreeze (and I've followed this thread from when it was started), but this is my first post...
Yesterday, I received a TKF Manta (one of the boards mentioned in the original post), and I've had two sessions on it now. Since I've read this thread dozens of times I thought I would chip in with my thoughts on this foil, cover off a couple of points I've seen debated (weight, galvanic corrosion) and also mention some things I've found elsewhere that haven't been discussed on this thread, but would benefit a beginner foiler (the original focus of the thread).
Firstly, I initially went down the DIY path and built a foil. It actually went pretty well, flew straight, more than enough lift (actually a bit too much); however, it only lasted 1/2 a session before the connection points started to give way. The wings and fuselage were all strong enough, but I underestimated the force that was put on the connection points and they just didn't hold. I tried a second time to glue the everything in place (I got lazy and didn't glass them in when I should have) and the second attempt on the water led to pretty much the same outcome. The DIY project actually took me about 6-7 months (limited free time and not really knowing what I was doing) and probably cost well over $1000 (bought more supplies than I needed, bought a drill press, belt sander, clamps, etc, etc...).
Bottom line - it was an awesome learning experience, but unless you have done a decent amount of composite work and have all the gear already - probably don't expect that your first attempt will be a 100% success. Attempt 2 or 3 are probably going to be the ones that actually work... or you might just end up throwing in the towel and buy an already proven one like I did...
DIY Attempt - Looks the part and worked - just not for that long before falling apart... As mentioned, I had only 2 sessions on the DIY version. I initially had put a 1 degree angle on the stabiliser (as I had seen recommended on a number of forums); however, that combined with my oversized, high lift box wing, it was a complete disaster... there was no porpoising, it was absolute ejection from the water at any speed. I trimmed it with washers to be very slightly negative and that let me keep the board down for the most part.
Still, putting the weight back led to the porpoising which was a complete PITA and was the rest of that session and the next one (first session 35 minutes, second one even less).
Reason for getting the TKF over a Carbon foil I had been looking at a number of second-hand Carbon foils that were pretty good prices. The main issue I had was that my local spot is super shallow, and the guys that have tried foils here had said how much of a PITA getting to deep enough water is. Especially when you are trying to learn and the wind is bringing you directly back into the shallows. When you are learning, the porpoising that I'd been told would continue for many sessions meant there was going to be a significant amount of time where foiling was going to suck... I started to look for anything on shallow water foiling and schools that were teaching people to foil.
Originally, I found this:
which is a Kite School that is teaching people to foil on shortened masts. This has the effect that breaching (especially on the very short mast) doesn't lead to the massive crash which is inevitable with the full-length mast. Porpoising on the really short mast is nothing more than an annoyance and you can focus on shifting your weight to keep the board down. Interesting that Slingshot are now doing the different mast sizes directly out of the factory:
I had used a TKF mast on my DIY foil (I got their factory seconds mast for $50 USD - you can still get them on their site), so when the Manta came up second hand, it made perfect sense that I could get a decent foil, board, and have the three mast lengths which would accelerate the learning and allow shallow water riding... I cut my old mast as suggested in the above video, tapped the holes for the mounting bolts and I now have three mast lengths to play with:
So far, I have only taken out the short mast, and the experience was absolutely worlds apart from my first sessions on the DIY board. I could start safely in waist deep water, and the inevitable breaching/porpoising was reduced to an irritation - not a spectacular crash. When I have come off, I am still typically in much shallower water than I could restart with the full length mast attached, and I can stand up, have a break and continue when I'm ready.
I've had around 2.5 hours on the board and can quite easily do 200m+ runs without coming off. That's not on the foil the whole time (or even the majority of the time), but it is time that I'm playing with my balance, speed and interaction with the kite - and not sitting in the water after a big breach stack or trying to get back out to deeper water...
I'm a big fan of the short mast for learning, and it's something I think a beginner (the original focus of this thread) would do well to consider. This wouldn't be an option with the carbon masts, but is a simple and cheap (it cost me an extra $50USD + postage...) way to accelerate the learning curve with the aluminium masts.
Board with the short training mast Review of the Manta I won't do a full review as there are decent reviews earlier in this thread. I am more than happy with everything - the build quality appears really good - everything seems 100% solid - connection points are all excellent with no hint of give. The profile of the front of the board really does seem to help with softening the blow when you come down from a breach (even though I'm not coming down very far yet...), and there is plenty of volume in the board to let you stay on the surface while getting up to flying speed (it was only around 9 knots today, but the board would easily allow me to get on top of the water and moving before the wing started to kick in).
Weight This is something that has been debated a bit in this topic... I haven't measured the weight, but there is obviously an amount of heft there (the board is heavier than its main competitors I think, but it also has significantly more volume). I was actually surprised how light the fuselage is, and the weight of the wings is fairly negligible. It would definitely be heavier than my race board (which is carbon), but it is much, much easier to carry around than the race board. The reason it is much easier to carry is the slot for the adjustable mounting box being in a perfect position to use as a handle... when you grab it from there it is right in the middle of the boards center of gravity and the weight is simply not an issue. The first time I carried it to the water I carried it like the race board (loop arm under the mast) and that sucked and felt heavy and awkward - but as soon as I found the massive handle in the centre of the board - no more issues.
Once in the water, I can't see the weight being of any real significance. Obviously, if you are wanting to race, weight would become a factor, but that's not something I'm considering...
Galvanic Corrosion Another thing I've seen in this thread (and was concerned about after seeing it bought up) was referring to Galvanic corrosion between the Aluminium components and Stainless bolts, and also between the Aluminium and Carbon components. From a few people I've spoken to that deal with that type of thing (ocean going boat maintenance, corrosive environments like mine sites), as long as you use something like TefGel (as suggested in earlier posts AND in the manual for the Manta) you should have very little to worry about with the stainless to Aluminium connection - especially if you maintain it. As for the Carbon/Aluminum corrosion (I'm considering getting a Carbon speed wing down the track) that is a non-issue with the Manta, as the Carbon is not in contact with the Aluminium at all. All the wings come with Nylon spacers and never make contact with the Aluminium. The stainless bolts touching the Carbon wing - exactly the same issue on the Carbon foils and I don't see anyone too concerned about that...
Sorry... that got a bit out of hand and was much bigger than I anticipated. In summary: I like the board - build quality seems good - weight not that much of an issue for me - the short mast makes learning a MUCH better experience (still not easy by any stretch, but much better than the big stacks). With the short mast I was learning in waist deep water and doing 100m-200m runs day one (not necessarily on the foil, but not with my ass in the water either). Helmet is a very good recommendation - I've had 2 stacks where I've gone in front of the board (because all your weight is forward) and the board has caught up and hit me in the back of the head... They wouldn't have been too bad, but it was also under 10 knots, so I can see things getting much worse at higher speeds (I was wearing a helmet, so it was a non-issue for me).
Anyway. Shutting up. Hopefully, someone gets something out of that and thanks for all your contributions so far...
kiteboy dave
> 9 months ago, 5 Apr 2015
its all still rideable, even with the bend so I'm not worrying about it until I can hold speed and height consistently.
