Select to expand quote

shodan said...

I'm on a LF Foil fish and need some advice. I found that with the foot straps in their forward most position I couldn't stop the board from doing super fast pogoing. The centre of the mast sits about 3 inches in front of the rear foot strap and after looking at where masts are on other boards decided to shift the rear strap all the way back and before water starting place my back foot directly over the mast. This puts my back foot between the two deckpads, on the slippery bare board, and narrows my stance putting my balance off a bit but has solved the out of control pogoing. What I'd like to know is at 62kg am I too light to get my weight forward enough to get balanced. The chick in the LF video doesn't seem any heavier than I am and seems to manage fine or is my stance just that bad?
<div>
An option I was thinking of was drilling the board to move the mast back a few inches, so it's located over the back foot strap, but wasn't sure if this might ruin the board. The other option is to fill the gap with a deckpad and turn the back strap around and fit a brace to the bolts that holds the back of the mast so the front of the strap can be bolted down.

<div>Any advice would be appreciated.

I have the LF as well. I removed back foot strap all together, left the front one on for launching only and learned get my weight onto the front foot. My rear foot usually ends up in that gap with just my heal touching the rear deck pad. It works okay for me.

You can always wax the gap or put in some more deck pad.

Shodan, it sound like your weight is too far forward, as your speed builds you can probably generate enough lift to enable the board to come off the water, but your weight drives it back down again Hence the pogo motion.

I also learnt on the LF and found the guide was about right to use the middle setting for the straps. Taking the rear off is also quite helpful, but I only did this once I mastered the basics as I found it helpful to move my rear foot around when riding toeside.

if you haven't tried this already, I would suggest moving the front strap to the middle and with a narrow stance ( back foot fwd an inch or so) practice riding the foil flat on the water, both tacks. When you can comfortably control the board on the water, start making very subtle weight changes to hop the foil a little. Weight backwards, then forward again to stop it riding uncontrollably. Eventually, small hops become longer and eventually result in controlled flying.

Be confident it is a very stable foil and you will get the hang of it ! It's just a matter of logging enough hours :)

Well someone has to not let my favorite thread die..... how about some progression reports foil newbies? I'm up and going albeit still pretty erratic. Getting some pretty long non pogo runs... upwind angle on the goofy tak still needs a fair bit more practice but overall I'm really pleased with where I am. Collected some ripper bruises along the way... plenty more to come I expect.

I'm up and riding out in the bay off Bonbeach going upwind downwind over sandbars shallow stuff
managing the swells but get caught out every now and then when a passing swell drops away from under my board and
the foilbreaks the surface in u go ??
my problem is going toe side it's like starting from scratch again,l can get around but then it all gets weird once l get around.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Im riding a LF foil fish.
If u read this Carl ur boards going great !!!
will catch with u at St Kilda
cheers

Gi'day all

I remember reading on one of these foil threads where someone bought a couple of reject alloy masts from a foil company. I can't find it, doses anyone remember where that is?

www.seabreeze.com.au/News/Kitesurfing/DIY-Hydrofoil-with-an-old-Skateboard-Deck_9750585.aspx

Looks like the topic has been removed...

Select to expand quote

davnom said...
Any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Im riding a LF foil fish.
If u read this Carl ur boards going great !!!
will catch with u at St Kilda
cheers

Awesome mate, I also found toeside on foil more scary..
I think it's the fear of landing on foil if it all goes wrong.

Try wearing your harness I bit looser, so it can twist a bit.
Or you could try one of those fancy hooks that move..

It really helps when you want to go downwind fast, and you can kind of carve off onto your toes and back onto your heals without having to make any foot changes.

Soo much to learn, I'm currently working on tacks etc.

Faaaarrrrk. This is a massive thread. My eyes glazed over after a while.

What was the concensus? which foil is the best option for a cost effective entry level foil.

PS i alreadt have a board that will work so i'm looking for a foil unit only. Ideally for less than $1000nzd.

Plummet, you are obviously after second hand.
So if carbon anything 4 yrs or older is way outdated tech.
any repairs you have to be totally confident with.
Shovel shape front wings are old tech but still being used by those companies that just buy a design looking for lowest cost.
Alloy foils need to be looked after. first thing to show neglect is the bolts and threads. Stainless steel bolts into alloy thread is a corrosion nightmare leading to seizing. every week or 2 bolts have to be removed and a thread seal paste applied, not thread lock, to protect against seizing.
Get a second hand foil with seized bolts and there will be no cheap easy fix.
Alloy masts welded to base plate are a crack in progress. the mast extrusions used by all alloy foil makers come from only 1 or 2 Chinese companies.
the plates are usually machined from rolled stock. Welding looks nice but the interface of the weld edge and parent alloy is weakened during the welding process.
Alloy has an elasticity modulus of Zero. this means any flex will contribute to fatigue. this means any bending and straightening is contributing to fatigue.
So secondhand alloy foils should be well looked after have free bolts, and no welds in their construction. Then you can buy with confidence.
BUT,,,, those of you out there with foils fitting this description with latest tech wing design should be holding out for way more than $1000NZ.
Those that chose Alloy foils that were galvanized before powdercoating are in an an even stronger negotiating position.

Select to expand quote

oldbones said..
Gi'day all

I remember reading on one of these foil threads where someone bought a couple of reject alloy masts from a foil company. I can't find it, doses anyone remember where that is?

http://www.thekitefoil.com/#!online-store/cre6/!/Special-deals/c/12622627/offset=0&sort=normal


I've got that alu mast and can tell you it's heavy almost 2kg, length is 90cm and slightly bent 0.5mm maybe. I might end up using it as a mold for a DIY carbon fiber one.

Already shaped my mast off a closed cell foam tho. No time to finish it atm.

I really think you have the ability to build it :)

What puts me off this manta is very sharp looking mast edge. Combined with a weight, this is a guillotine :(

As you might know, I've spent 1 hr shaping my mast (sounds funny). That is it. Carbon cost plus everything else guessing $300? With my DIY board as well...

If I like the ride might invest in the above.

Select to expand quote

dbabicwa said..

I really think you have the ability to build it :)

What puts me off this manta is very sharp looking mast edge. Combined with a weight, this is a guillotine :(

As you might know, I've spent 1 hr shaping my mast (sounds funny). That is it. Carbon cost plus everything else guessing $300? With my DIY board as well...

If I like the ride might invest in the above.

Plenty of good tips from this french forum:

kitefoil.forumactif.org/f26-nos-mats-et-fuselages

Just use google translator to get the essence of it.

Select to expand quote

Plummet said..
Faaaarrrrk. This is a massive thread. My eyes glazed over after a while.

What was the concensus? which foil is the best option for a cost effective entry level foil.

PS i alreadt have a board that will work so i'm looking for a foil unit only. Ideally for less than $1000nzd.

http://zeeko-kites.com/gb/foil-series/279-alloy-foil-series-2015.html

Select to expand quote

snalberski said..
Well someone has to not let my favorite thread die..... how about some progression reports foil newbies? I'm up and going albeit still pretty erratic. Getting some pretty long non pogo runs... upwind angle on the goofy tak still needs a fair bit more practice but overall I'm really pleased with where I am. Collected some ripper bruises along the way... plenty more to come I expect.

My progress is very very slow due to hardly getting out on the water. New job's keeping me busy all weekdays till late evening and weekends just haven't had the stars align. I'm hoping this weekend might be a go. Otherwise I'm just trying to sneak a session here & there till next year when family commitments will ease a bit....

Select to expand quote

kiteboy dave said..

oldbones said..
Gi'day all

I remember reading on one of these foil threads where someone bought a couple of reject alloy masts from a foil company. I can't find it, doses anyone remember where that is?

http://www.thekitefoil.com/#!online-store/cre6/!/Manta-aluminum-mast-production-scrap/p/48432214/category=12622627

That would still cost around $1600 nzd to land in nz.

If you mean the zeeko the price shown incs french taxes, is about 665 euro without, so ~ $1090nz. Then you have postage, import taxes etc which I don't know about.

The manta (freeride) is $759 US or ~$1160 nz. Plus postage, taxes, etc.

These are you 2 best options for cheap, new, foil only, and plate connection (have to specify for manta).

I have been following this thread with interest while on my travels and decided to jump into the foray. I ended up purchasing a Jim Stringfellow foil from a friend who has advanced to racing. Greg from Board Riding Maui (aka Cloud kites) is using these foils and thinks pretty highly of them, so it was worth the punt. It was second hand but in perfect condition, not even a scratch, and $800.00. I arrived home finally three days ago and set about hacking into an older fish that I had rendered unsurfable any more. I did the repairs, added a thin wooden plate on the bottom deck, (top deck has wooden panel). Its ready to bolt up now and put me through the learning process. Looking forward to seeing what all the fuss is about!
Does anyone know where to get the thread seal paste the Ral Inn was talking about?
Cheers....stoked to be home finally!

Flyingcab on his new slingshot

Select to expand quote

dafish said..

Does anyone know where to get the thread seal paste the Ral Inn was talking about?
Cheers....stoked to be home finally!

Go to an engineering shop and ask for pipe thread sealant. Loctite do one.

You could just use grease also. All you need to do is remove the change of salt water getting in there. Lob some grease on that will do the trick.
Thread sealant goes off and becomes hardish so it would be a pain in the arse removing and apply sealant if you unbolt the unit each time. Its a good idea for set and forget.

Select to expand quote

kiteboy dave said..
If you mean the zeeko the price shown incs french taxes, is about 665 euro without, so ~ $1090nz. Then you have postage, import taxes etc which I don't know about.

The manta (freeride) is $759 US or ~$1160 nz. Plus postage, taxes, etc.

These are you 2 best options for cheap, new, foil only, and plate connection (have to specify for manta).

Ok thats getting better. Gst is 15% on anything imported over $500. plus what ever the freight is.

Plummet said..

Select to expand quote

dafish said..

Does anyone know where to get the thread seal paste the Ral Inn was talking about?

Go to an engineering shop and ask for pipe thread sealant. Loctite do one.

_____________________________________________________________

I think he was talking about Tef Gel, not Thread lock.... I guess you would get it from boating supplies.

Select to expand quote

Plummet said..
Faaaarrrrk. This is a massive thread. My eyes glazed over after a while.

What was the concensus? which foil is the best option for a cost effective entry level foil.

PS i alreadt have a board that will work so i'm looking for a foil unit only. Ideally for less than $1000nzd.

Why don't you talk to Biggie and Pete...

I'll most likely be bringing a foil over in Jan if you would like to check it out for ideas, shape etc.

between the three of you I think you could design and make something for your local conditions.

think global, buy local.

When I get home I will check out the details of the thread seal that comes with the Zeeko Alloy foils.
Your aim is to seal and anti seize the thread.
Grease is just a paste that carries oil so will just get messy.

I reckon "durlac" (designed for this purpose) for people that rarely dismantle foil and grease for those that do every couple of weeks.

Select to expand quote

polykarb said..

Plummet said..
Faaaarrrrk. This is a massive thread. My eyes glazed over after a while.

What was the concensus? which foil is the best option for a cost effective entry level foil.

PS i alreadt have a board that will work so i'm looking for a foil unit only. Ideally for less than $1000nzd.

Why don't you talk to Biggie and Pete...

I'll most likely be bringing a foil over in Jan if you would like to check it out for ideas, shape etc.

between the three of you I think you could design and make something for your local conditions.

think global, buy local.

Yeah nah. I can build one if I want. Which I probably will do at some point. But I want to learn on an existing design first. Find out what I like and what I don't like . Then apply my building skill to build one suited to me.

PS Pete has already tried to build one. Snapped it on the first run. He's a good fabricator. But no good at design. Boards are a piece of piss compared to foil design. Foil is 99% design 1% fabrication.

I have or am in the processing of it loading. photos that show the details of the TIKAL Tef-Gel, onto our facebook page.
www.facebook.com/3Inlets-Windsports-1407344329565514/
This stuff would also have applications in the like of board fittings.

Select to expand quote

Plummet said...


Yeah nah. Foil is 99% design 1% fabrication.

I think you will find that the fabrication is just as important as design. Prob more 50/50.

I've gone from LF FF to Kfa mk3, and agree that design makes a huge difference in performance.

The forces generated when foiling are massive, if your fabrication is not perfect your design won't matter.

If you make something that's low aspect to learn on you will have more fun. Especially in the surf

Maybe a slightly shorter mast/strut, I hope I don't hit anything during my trip. (Already getting excited).

Fair point. For me the fabrication is the easy part. Its figuring out what and how that's difficult.

I'll be interested to see you foil the naki. Only seen one crazy French guy do it.

First run out today. Good thing I had no expectations. Body dragging to get to deeper water was a challenge. Only spend about 40 minutes but managed to ride 15 feet. Every aspect is like learning all over again. I think the wind was too light, about 12 knots max which made it harder as I was chasing the kite a bit and losing power to keep the board flat and stop it from rising. Will try it next in 15 knots. I also kept the two rear fins of the quad on, but I will ditch those as the board was tracking a bit too straight and I tended to roll over the board and crash.. The surfboard I modified is no doubt too big at 6 foot, but it's all I had to work with. I will shape a paipo when I learn how to ride. Now to go back and find those beginner videos again ;)

I used an old directional kiteboard at 195cm and it is no problem if not a help when board comes back down.
The main advantage of shorter boards maybe easiness of transport. As we progress the extra length is no use.