I thought the directional was bad for hard slams, but the foil has it beat. Speed only makes it worse...!

I know the LF has a couple of guys making wings for it, which they claim are a big step up. And the Zeeko has those other wings, but are eh compatible? Something to buy down the road...

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Kamikuza said..
I thought the directional was bad for hard slams, but the foil has it beat. Speed only makes it worse...!

I know the LF has a couple of guys making wings for it, which they claim are a big step up. And the Zeeko has those other wings, but are eh compatible? Something to buy down the road...

The Zeeko Black & white edition cruises comfortably for a beginner like me somewhere in the range of low to mid 20's in Knots.
My home spot is Shallow Inlet so it's pretty much speed courses and overtaking well powered TT/12m riders with my 9m is somewhat too easy.
As the speed run is a curve bearing away, the longer you stay on it the faster you go. So far while I have yet to go very fast (over 25kts) I have yet to feel like the foil was dragging or getting unstable. in fact it seems to get more stable. But when you are running just downwind of solid ground and turning into wind to slow down not an option. I tend to stay well inside my comfort zone.
All this is to say that the Zeeko Alloy will take quite some growing out of. And the new Blue wing may be a little slower but more wave focused.

The other week when in St Kilda doing our boat rides with our 8m twin rig RIB we got to pace a Foiler who was fully kitted up with what appeared to be race gear
he was giving the yachties a speed lesson which looked cool. but he was also looking tapped out for speed. Our GPS (actually 2 Gps's) showed a max of 22kts.
This was downwind of course with some chop. The Zeeko Alloy has a 90cm mast and mounted to any old directional certainly would not allow for the lean angles that a full length mast and race board would get.
But for Freeriding it does crank up wind and it has speed capability and stability enough. Plus it allows people to enter foiling with a budget on new gear.
Then many of those may well opt to move up to Carbon foils, once they know that Foiling is for them. Many will be happy and stay on Alloy.
The Zeeko Carbon foils give a choice of 3 front wings so that choice to select a style orientated wing may well be a good enough reason to go Carbon.
Freeriding and jumping may also favour Carbon for the lower weight in the air. But Those that grew up on Alloy foils would be used to the weight and not care maybe.

This is just my own opinion based on my own limited skills and the products I know about, and this is a thread about entry level Foiling.
For those that push on this thread using high performance race designed Foils as great for learning on, it sort of reminds me of the early days when we learnt on high aspect ratio 4 line kites, and thought it was normal. when easy to use kites came along we quickly embraced them for teaching and learning on and even going forward on. Yes we proved it could be done on those early kites, but would we go back there?

Hi everyone,
I am thinking of buying a second hand foilfish simply because of availability and affordability. Also possibility to upgrade wings etc. I am wondering what size kite i would need. I am hoping to get going in about 10 - 12 knots in warm wind (asia). I am about 100kg. Mostly flat water foiling. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

Having learn't to foilboard this season I would suggest that you lower your expectations. Foilboarding certainly lowers your lower limits but 100kg in 10knts of tropical breeze I would suggest is a huge ask, even for a seasoned foilboarder /light wind flyer.

Once your used to the foilboard its comparable to a turbo charged directional with ridiculous upwind capability.
This however does not mitigate the need for enough wind, and the flying skills to completely juice whats available. With the conditions your citing I would suggest a large LW specific kite, but learning to foilboard in those conditions with a foilfish will be a huge challenge.

Bear in mind that while learning and beyond a voluminous board with a large rocker and truncated rails is a huge assistance, and to my mind this is the main downfall with the foilfish rig - the board is not designed as a foiling board and was last minute add on to to enable LF to be the first on the market with a entry level priced foil

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snalberski said..
Having learn't to foilboard this season I would suggest that you lower your expectations. Foilboarding certainly lowers your lower limits but 100kg in 10knts of tropical breeze I would suggest is a huge ask, even for a seasoned foilboarder /light wind flyer.

Once your used to the foilboard its comparable to a turbo charged directional with ridiculous upwind capability.
This however does not mitigate the need for enough wind, and the flying skills to completely juice whats available. With the conditions your citing I would suggest a large LW specific kite, but learning to foilboard in those conditions with a foilfish will be a huge challenge.

Bear in mind that while learning and beyond a voluminous board with a large rocker and truncated rails is a huge assistance, and to my mind this is the main downfall with the foilfish rig - the board is not designed as a foiling board and was last minute add on to to enable LF to be the first on the market with a entry level priced foil

I have no issues going in 8 to 10 knots on an LF Fish-Foil with a Cloud. Did 5k's yesterday between 3:30pm and 4:30pm before I dropped my kite at Norah Head.

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cqclay said...
Hi everyone,
I am thinking of buying a second hand foilfish simply because of availability and affordability. Also possibility to upgrade wings etc. I am wondering what size kite i would need. I am hoping to get going in about 10 - 12 knots in warm wind (asia). I am about 100kg. Mostly flat water foiling. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

I think something 15-17-21m would be the go. The Foil Fish is not a particularly efficient foil - I had it - but it works fine as an entry level foilboard. Personally I've used a Speed 3 21m foil kite and Cloud 17 in these conditions with no problems. The slow turning speed of a big foil kite actually helps the learning process. Personally I found it allowed me to park the kite and forget about it, and concentrate on the foiling side of things.

My favourite kite is my 15m Sonic FR. I'd rather fly that with the faster turning speed that the 21 any day (in LW)

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cqclay said..
Hi everyone,
I am thinking of buying a second hand foilfish simply because of availability and affordability. Also possibility to upgrade wings etc. I am wondering what size kite i would need. I am hoping to get going in about 10 - 12 knots in warm wind (asia). I am about 100kg. Mostly flat water foiling. Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

Hey there. What part of Asia?

I still weigh more than you and I got a LFFF too. With my Speed3 21 I have been out riding upwind in what the weather station said was 4 to 8 knots. Take that with as much salt as you like, but it was very bloody light--I wouldn't have bothered except I wanted to see how low I could go 10 knots is no problem, in fact you'll probaby prefer not much more...

The board isn't great but it's bullet proof so you don't need to worry about busting it.

Out on my just purchased 15m speed 4 lotus,LF foilfish in 5-10kts this arvo Chelsea beach had a ball??
love lightwind kiteing,flew the 15 on the beach in 0- 5 kts bloody unreal.btw I'm 82 kgs

Thanks for replies everyone. East coast of Philippines is where I will be.

Also, does anyone know where I could get an upgraded set of wings for the Foilfish? I have seen comments about them, that people are making them.

Also, the foilfish appeals to me because I can use the board for kiting waves as well. Any comment on board performance in the surf? Bit of compromise both ways I would imagine. I have only been using my old surfboards until now.

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cqclay said..
Thanks for replies everyone. East coast of Philippines is where I will be.

Also, does anyone know where I could get an upgraded set of wings for the Foilfish? I have seen comments about them, that people are making them.

There's a couple of threads at the kiteforum. LF has a bunch of different ones, Malolo I think the name is is making some, and thekitefoil.com guy once said he did them but hasn't replied to my email yet. Odds are good you could ask any company that does a "regular" wing to fuselage connection for their fins and just order the wings undrilled.

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cqclay said..
Also, the foilfish appeals to me because I can use the board for kiting waves as well. Any comment on board performance in the surf? Bit of compromise both ways I would imagine. I have only been using my old surfboards until now.

I hated it as a surfboard, but only tried it once. Others closer to your weight seem to like it. Not great but acceptable

Maybe of interest to those selecting their weapons.
I chose the zeeko alloy before seeing this post below, but it confirms what I had hoped.
The post form Nicholas Callou, the Zeeko man is comparing his alloy and carbon foils.
Clearly the carbon is better but not so much that worries me.. and that better comes at a cost as we all know.
Somewritten in Frenglish :O)


From: kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2391389&start=10.

""
In fact there is a lot of difference between the 2 products:
1- Carbon foil is lighter, then for jump it is better (jumps are warrantied only with speed/jumps wings)
2- Carbon foil can be used with 3 different wings allowing different ride experience (race, freeride or speed and jumps)
3- Carbon foil is faster. Averagely, everything can be done 3 knots faster due to the thinner mast profil. Even if the alloy foil is not only beginner dedicated (I ride it myself and never fell my level decreasing when I ride it) (max speed in standard setting for carbon foils is about 33.5knots when I ride at 30.5knots with the alloy foil).
4- There is no or minimal maintenance with carbon foil. With alloy foil, due to possible corrosion you need to rince it after your ride, and you need to apply t-gel on screws every 2-3 weeks. With carbon, nothing to do. To avoid corrosion, our alloy foil use specific aluminium (this is a way better aluminium than 6061 T6 one) + we use anodisation (most brand do it) + we paint the alloy parts (there is not a lot of branding doing it).

About the difference in feeling, it is very close except the speed. The alloy foil use same profils on wings than the Carbon foil, the DNA origin is the same.

Ride easy
Nicolas
""

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cqclay said..
Also, the foilfish appeals to me because I can use the board for kiting waves as well. Any comment on board performance in the surf? Bit of compromise both ways I would imagine. I have only been using my old surfboards until now.

I also hated the Foilfish without the foil the first time I tried it. But, once I dialled it in it is huge fun. The fins are crappy plastic and a bit loose. If you load up hard the tail slides out. Adapt your technique a little and it fits nicely into small waves and carves really well. It's a bit heavy but great for boosting. It rockets upwind. It's called a "wave skate" and that term seems to be an accurate description.

Compared to my kite surfboard it's a pig.

Overall, I love my Foilfish. I learned to foil on it and for that I am eternally grateful. I can do foil stuff on it and I am progressing.

It was cheap. It is tough. I can ride it without the foil if I want. I might sell it when I graduate to my carbon foil (on order but still waiting). I might keep it to play with. What's not to love?

PS. I am tall and skinny (185cm, 77kg). I ride the LF with a 7m most of the time (15-25-30 knots) and a 10m in light wind (10-15 knots). I've been a bit gun shy of being over powered or going too fast downwind because the LF front wing tends to buck if you get out of control. A bit of technique improvement and skills acquisition (ie about 40 hours of "practice") and I'm getting that wired. I can carve foil gybes easily.

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davnom said..
Out on my just purchased 15m speed 4 lotus,LF foilfish in 5-10kts this arvo Chelsea beach had a ball??
love lightwind kiteing,flew the 15 on the beach in 0- 5 kts bloody unreal.btw I'm 82 kgs

Glad you are enjoying that kite Dave ! Hope to get a few more over you you guys soon.

Back in business, 2ND mast mandrel arrived, so I turned it into carbon

Pull it out in a few days, make the fuselage and see how strong it is :)

Just learning but getting 100 mtr glides up on the foil. First day on the 19 mtr speed 2, 22 knots in 6-8 knots of wind is nuts. The power generated by the apparent wind on a foil kite really seems to suit the foil board.

Out today in SFA wind with the Speed3 21. The wind sock was barely getting it up to 45 degrees and I knew I was pushing my luck but it was so nice having flat water to work on foot changes. Then the wind dropped, I dropped the kite doing a down loop and had to swim in. Naturally, it was the tack that had me furtherest away from the shore . . .

As a friend said recently (and what we all knew), when light wind foiling there is very little difference between light wind and no wind.

I have stopped using my biggest kite (13m). The extra power is cancelled out by the extra weight of the kite and the difficulty in keeping it in the air in very light conditions. I am keeping an eye on the kite market for a new kite that is light enough to float in the air during lulls, has outstanding light wind relaunch, and doesn't cost a fortune.

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Gorgo said..
As a friend said recently (and what we all knew), when light wind foiling there is very little difference between light wind and no wind.

I have stopped using my biggest kite (13m). The extra power is cancelled out by the extra weight of the kite and the difficulty in keeping it in the air in very light conditions. I am keeping an eye on the kite market for a new kite that is light enough to float in the air during lulls, has outstanding light wind relaunch, and doesn't cost a fortune.

Fill it with helium

What he said ^ :)

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Gorgo said..
As a friend said recently (and what we all knew), when light wind foiling there is very little difference between light wind and no wind.

I have stopped using my biggest kite (13m). The extra power is cancelled out by the extra weight of the kite and the difficulty in keeping it in the air in very light conditions. I am keeping an eye on the kite market for a new kite that is light enough to float in the air during lulls, has outstanding light wind relaunch, and doesn't cost a fortune.

I'd rather ride and risk a swim than not risk anything and sit at home.

I make a point of not riding past the ends of our beach, so the worst that'll happen is a half-hour swim. . . .

$200 carbon foil MOD 2 nearly completed
Added removable mast to this one, longer fuselage.

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Kamikuza said..

I'd rather ride and risk a swim than not risk anything and sit at home.

I make a point of not riding past the ends of our beach, so the worst that'll happen is a half-hour swim. . . .

Whoa, I'm psychic--had to swim in Thursday last week. Duffed up a downloop transition and couldn't relaunch the 21. Half-hour swim :D Had a bloody briliant 90 minutes riding in butter-flat glassy water though.

Surprised this one is still available, www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Kitesurfing-Kites/~vt-k5/2010-Flysurfer-Speed-2-Deluxe-15-metre.aspx?search=yxrOHND3sv6FPU3CbHYI!IiZcevG2!3k. I have it in the 19mtr and it works great on a foil in 6 knots, very light weight kite.

Looking at jumping into the foil game. Probably will pick up my kit in a couple months or more. I got my eye set on the aluminum zeeko foil to start off with I reckon. Looking at pairing it with a shinnester foil board or maybe shinn el stubbo. I really want a fun board that will be just as awesome without the foil as with. Do either of this boards look overly difficult to learn on for foiling?

I think they will be fine but double checking before I get my heart set on one of these options. Any other similar recommendations?

Hi Cygnify. I think either of those two board will work - but some observations. The El Stubbo has straps will will make water starting much easier, but the short length is going to be extra challenging when learning. You'll nosedive a lot and a short board is likely to pitch you straight in the water rather than bounce you back up.

The shinnster would be more forgiving with the length, but if it's strapless only then the waterstart process is going to be tricky (initially)

I've been foiling over 12 months now and have a 125cm strapless foil board, and the first few sessions were really challenging compared to what I was used to. Getting the board into place and then keeping it there whilst diving the kite is the main problem. As soon as you let go of the rail, the foil wants to sink and pull the board flat, which gives you nothing to push against when the kite makes power and you get pulled onto the foil in a most unattractive fashion. The trick is to dive the kite with your front hand, whilst holding the rail with the back hand until the power allows you to keep the board in place with your feet. Once up its sweet.

On top of all this, my learning experience was that board volume helps, especially in light wind. My strapless board sinks unless it's moving forward, whereas something with enough volume to keep you afloat gives you some margin for error. I learnt on the LF Foil Fish and that was frustrating as it also sank / nosedived given half a chance. I then bought a proper temavento foilboard which made things much, much easier. Once you are flying, volume is irrelevant of course.

Thanks for the excellent reply jamesperth. I did have a feeling that volume would make things much easier.

Ill definitely be getting straps on whatever board i get. Its just a matter of a small compromise in water-starts then I guess with not much volume. Although I can imagine that in the beginning that is where you are spending most of your time; water-starts.

Something to think about for sure.

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airsail said..
Surprised this one is still available, www.seabreeze.com.au/Classifieds/Kitesurfing-Kites/~vt-k5/2010-Flysurfer-Speed-2-Deluxe-15-metre.aspx?search=yxrOHND3sv6FPU3CbHYI!IiZcevG2!3k. I have it in the 19mtr and it works great on a foil in 6 knots, very light weight kite.

Speed 2 is very old now, and yeah they fly good in light winds, for a 15m, but are very slow and pull harder unnecessarily in gusts. Not worth wasting money on old foils anymore, as the game has changed quite a lot since Chrono 1.

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dachopper said..
$200 carbon foil MOD 2 nearly completed
Added removable mast to this one, longer fuselage.

Where did you get the carbon material from may I ask? PM if necessary. Cheers

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Loftywinds said...

dachopper said..
$200 carbon foil MOD 2 nearly completed
Added removable mast to this one, longer fuselage.

Where did you get the carbon material from may I ask? PM if necessary. Cheers

We got source carbon ask Clint. Cheaper then anywhere else


$200 carbon is not much carbon in a foil.

The KFA foil is 3.3kg of solid carbon!