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Roo said..
Leap seconds.

Roo, I understand leap seconds, but this doesn't explain why both GPS's are not showing the same time. They are both in the same location, presumably syching to the same satellites.

It depends what they are using for their time stamp. As we know they are using different gps chipsets, each handles leap seconds differently. www.timeanddate.com/time/leapseconds.html My U-Blox 18hz gps units are 37 seconds different on the timestamps to the GT-31.

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Roo said..

boardsurfr said..

Roo said..
If you have GPSResults you can save the file as a .sbp or .sbn file and then GPSAR will be able to read it. It is the native .sbp file from the GW60 it has trouble with.

and (according to JHdeBruin) with 18 Hz data from the Gyro1. The problem exists regardless of whether the "Doppler" box is checked or not. Opening the files in GPSResults and saving them to a new .sbp file does not help, the problem persists.

Wrong again, saving the Gyro 18hz files to .sbp allows them to open in GPSAR, just did it with 5 of my Gyro 18hz files. Also works with my Bluetooth 18hz U-Blox files. You need to do your research before coming out with definitive statements that someone is wrong!

Roo, do you have a reading problem? Or is that a ODD-like need to be right that makes you cite me in a misleading way?

The issue at hand is about a bug in GPSAR Pro with 5+ Hz data if the "cubic" checkbox is enabled. What about that do you not understand? This problem appears to affect all kinds of 5 Hz data (and, according to JHdeBruin also 18 Hz data from the Gyro1).

You apparently have encountered problems when trying to load your ubx files from your prototype GPS devices in GPSAR Pro. That particular problem was due to changes in the UBLOX messages used by your device, relative to what GPSAR expected. To get such files into GPSAR, you'll need to convert them in a different format. The same it true for Canmore .fit files, which GPSAR Pro does not support at all.

When you read Patatg's post where he stated

"GpsArPro doesn't show my 10sec runs, logged at 5hz. To see them I have to uncheck the "Cubic enabled" box"

you assumed that he had a similar problem. Therefore, you wrote:

"GPSAR can't find the correct sentences in the data to process. ... Essentially GPSAR can't find the data it needs. It has the same trouble with later U-Blox GPS data"

Your assumption was wrong. There are "sentences" in .sbp files, there is only one type of records. I have "done my research" - I have descriptions of the SBP file format from 2 different sources, and I have written my own code to parse .sbp files.

You later suggested that opening the file in GPSResults, and saving it to a new file, would fix the problem:

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Roo said.. If you have GPSResults you can save the file as a .sbp or .sbn file and then GPSAR will be able to read it. It is the native .sbp file from the GW60 it has trouble with.

Sure, GPSAR will be able to read files saved from GPSResults in .sbp or .sbn format, regardless if they are from GW-60s, Canmores, Gyros, or prototypes. But since GPSAR does not have any problems reading GW-60 files, re-saving from GPSResults does absolutely nothing to save the original problem with "cubic enabled" 10 second speed calculation. The problem persists. I have actually tested that before posting the first time. You apparently never have event tried to reproduce the problem at all. Go ahead, save Gyro 18 Hz files, open them in GPSAR Pro, and look at the speed results with "Cubic enabled". Don't forget to press "Recompute all". Here's what you get (in this case with 5 Hz GW-52 data)

Without "Cubic enabled", GPSAR Pro has no problems whatsoever calculating 10 second speeds:

boardsurfr is right, GPSAR is not calculating the data with Cubic enabled when the GPS is logging data higher than 1hz.
I mentioned/emailed this to Yann when I started with the first NMEA 10hz units 2 years ago, did not receive a reply from him.

Manfred was always correct in his answers and software, I switched from GPSAR to GPS Results. (Using Wine to run it on Ubuntu)

The output of the Gyro is raw binary data from the Ublox chip itself.
Data is saved to the SD card and after that I use it to calculate the values for the display.
I don't want to do this any other way as I believe data should not be altered in any way during logging, GPS Results has access to this raw binary data.
If this means there is some difference when you calculate the values, like leap seconds, the software programmers should look into this.

SBP values are nothing more than zipped data files containing some NMEA values.
There is some information here : www.steffensiebert.de/soft/python/locosys_tools.html

I have had the same experience with Yann and Manfred. Slow or no response to bug reports from Yann, and (usually) very quick bug fixes from Manfred.

SBP is a binary file format. It is not zipped. The values in it come from the GPS unit in whichever way the GPS chip communicates with the firmware, whether that is a binary format or NMEA. I have never been able to find any field for SDOP in the NMEA documentation. For example, the GPGSA record contains PDOP, HDOP, and VDOP, but not SDOP. If anyone knows how speed accuracy is encoded in NMEA sentences, please let me know!

The loco sys_tools are a starting point, but unfortunately, many links on the page seem to be dead, and the code that parses the .sbp files is compiled (pyc). An easier starting point is the GPSBabel source code. The SBP format is defined in navilink.c. Even this description does not include the SDOP; turns out the "bit flags" field is used to store SDOP data in SBP files.

Sometimes I wonder if a new analysis program that combines the best features of GPSResults (e.g. accuracy estimates) and GPSAR (e.g. viewing multiple tracks together and jibe analysis). But I get the impression that most speed surfers just want the results in the least painful way, and that ka72.com is a near-perfect solution for them.

Locosys has just released a special GW60 firmware trial version with alpha racing feature.
This version is dedicated to those users who are interested in Alpha racing.
Here is the download link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10480954/GW60/GW60_ARFW_V1.1A0106B.ZIP

The firmware file, release note and related document are included in the zip file.
Read the release note before updating firmware.

Note the firmware will be expired on Jun 30th, 2017.


Enjoy it !

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formosa101 said..


Locosys has just released a special GW60 firmware trial version with alpha racing feature.
This version is dedicated to those users who are interested in Alpha racing.
Here is the download link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10480954/GW60/GW60_ARFW_V1.1A0106B.ZIP

The firmware file, release note and related document are included in the zip file.
Read the release note before updating firmware.

Note the firmware will be expired on Jun 30th, 2017.


Enjoy it !

How do you update the firmware on the watch to include this feature?

Not sure if it's been mentioned before or if it's technically possible, but what if the watch was equipped with two antennas, one being concealed in the wrist band so that one or both always have reception?

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John340 said..

formosa101 said..


Locosys has just released a special GW60 firmware trial version with alpha racing feature.
This version is dedicated to those users who are interested in Alpha racing.
Here is the download link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10480954/GW60/GW60_ARFW_V1.1A0106B.ZIP

The firmware file, release note and related document are included in the zip file.
Read the release note before updating firmware.

Note the firmware will be expired on Jun 30th, 2017.


Enjoy it !

How do you update the firmware on the watch to include this feature?

Use the same utility,GW60Updater.

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formosa101 said..


Locosys has just released a special GW60 firmware trial version with alpha racing feature.
This version is dedicated to those users who are interested in Alpha racing.
Here is the download link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10480954/GW60/GW60_ARFW_V1.1A0106B.ZIP

The firmware file, release note and related document are included in the zip file.
Read the release note before updating firmware.

Note the firmware will be expired on Jun 30th, 2017.


Enjoy it !

Thanks Formosa, that looks fantastic!! can't wait to try it.
I love the 5x10 average, and the alpha 500>
It's pity we have to set the speed genie to our alpha min speed though, that will means I loose the last speed run data going back upwind.
I guess it's easy enough to change that on the water, that's one big advantage of the watch, it's extremely easy to use.
As far as the GPS Team Challenge comp is concerned, the Nautical mile is more important than the 100m and 250m.
Not sure about numbers of sailors who prefer the shorter distances, depends where they sail I guess.

Any way, I'll give it a go and report back.

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Adriano said..
Not sure if it's been mentioned before or if it's technically possible, but what if the watch was equipped with two antennas, one being concealed in the wrist band so that one or both always have reception?

Well the existing antenna is in the strap on the inside of the wrist.
1) I doubt that an antenna on the outside of the wrist would ever get a better signal.
2) At GPS frequencies, I think there would be phasing issues even with 2 antennas a watch length apart. So there would have to be analyses and switching between the two antennas. This would be a big increase in complexity, may not even be room in the watch case for it, and would certainly increase the price, maybe with very little benefit.

That was painless, just had to switch over to windows, change to "com" mode, and it was done in seconds.

There's going to be lots of people who love the sleep lock out function, as well as all the other goodies.

Yes, just upgraded the firmware (easy ) really really great !! Not only the alpha , but also 5x10s AVG (!), 100m, 250m & 500m

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formosa101 said..

John340 said..

formosa101 said..


Locosys has just released a special GW60 firmware trial version with alpha racing feature.
This version is dedicated to those users who are interested in Alpha racing.
Here is the download link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10480954/GW60/GW60_ARFW_V1.1A0106B.ZIP

The firmware file, release note and related document are included in the zip file.
Read the release note before updating firmware.

Note the firmware will be expired on Jun 30th, 2017.


Enjoy it !

How do you update the firmware on the watch to include this feature?

Use the same utility,GW60Updater.

Thanks, updated successfully. All the new features work except the RSLT 1A ~ RSLT 4B. When I try to adjust, the watch says that this function is not supported! Have i missed something or is another firmware update required for this function?

So if One does an alpha with a min speed of 9 knots - this will only show on watch if speed genie is set to 8 knots?

Great unexpected feature, be great to see the NM in place of the 100m

Does anyone know what the screen flip feature is? I think it is a new feature of the above update.

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decrepit said..

formosa101 said..


Locosys has just released a special GW60 firmware trial version with alpha racing feature.
This version is dedicated to those users who are interested in Alpha racing.
Here is the download link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10480954/GW60/GW60_ARFW_V1.1A0106B.ZIP

The firmware file, release note and related document are included in the zip file.
Read the release note before updating firmware.

Note the firmware will be expired on Jun 30th, 2017.


Enjoy it !

Thanks Formosa, that looks fantastic!! can't wait to try it.
I love the 5x10 average, and the alpha 500>
It's pity we have to set the speed genie to our alpha min speed though, that will means I loose the last speed run data going back upwind.
I guess it's easy enough to change that on the water, that's one big advantage of the watch, it's extremely easy to use.
As far as the GPS Team Challenge comp is concerned, the Nautical mile is more important than the 100m and 250m.
Not sure about numbers of sailors who prefer the shorter distances, depends where they sail I guess.

Any way, I'll give it a go and report back.

Mike,

Can you change the ACT SPD (eg from Max speed to @500) during a speed session while in GPS mode. I can only the ACT SPD when not in GPS mode?

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John340 said..

formosa101 said..

John340 said..

formosa101 said..


Locosys has just released a special GW60 firmware trial version with alpha racing feature.
This version is dedicated to those users who are interested in Alpha racing.
Here is the download link:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10480954/GW60/GW60_ARFW_V1.1A0106B.ZIP

The firmware file, release note and related document are included in the zip file.
Read the release note before updating firmware.

Note the firmware will be expired on Jun 30th, 2017.


Enjoy it !

How do you update the firmware on the watch to include this feature?

Use the same utility,GW60Updater.

Thanks, updated successfully. All the new features work except the RSLT 1A ~ RSLT 4B. When I try to adjust, the watch says that this function is not supported! Have i missed something or is another firmware update required for this function?

I have just received the following PM from Locosys.

From formosa101
To John340
Sent 11 January 2017 at 10:49 AM, (QLD time)
Subject Alpha Racing firmware restriction removed.

Please try this version:

dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10480954/GW60/GW60_ARFW_V1.1G0106C.ZIP

The restriction is removed.

I've updated the watch with this version of the firmware and now the RSLT 1A ~ RSLT 4B display feature is working

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bearhoover said..
So if One does an alpha with a min speed of 9 knots - this will only show on watch if speed genie is set to 8 knots?

Great unexpected feature, be great to see the NM in place of the 100m

Well there are 4 windows, I think there's room for all the GTC divisions, the existing 5x10, distance and alpha plus 2s, NM and hour, we'll see if they can do it.

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John340 said..


Mike,

Can you change the ACT SPD (eg from Max speed to @500) during a speed session while in GPS mode. I can only the ACT SPD when not in GPS mode?

I don't think so John, you have to drop out of GPS mode to adjust anything, all you can do in gps mode is delete stuff, so be careful.

I adjusted ACT SPD yesterday on the water, from 100m to alpha, but it didn't seem to make any difference, I still had an instantaneous speed readout.
Unless of course I misunderstand what ACT SPD is supposed to do.

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formosa101 said..

sick_em_rex said..
Does anyone know what the screen flip feature is? I think it is a new feature of the above update.

You can find the same feature in GT-31.
When enabled, GW60 will display screen "upside-down".

<div>Since position of antenna is critically important for quality of GW60 computations,
this feature allows Users to put antenna in a good position as much as possible.

Formosa I'm trying to think of a situation where this would help, the inside of the wrist seems the best spot for the antenna.
I guess, if you wear the watch on the palm side of the wrist, with display reversed, the skyview would be similar, but the watch face would be more visible.
Sounds like a good idea, I'll give it a test next time I'm out.

Hey Formosa, do we guess correctly you are from locosys????
If so a big welcome on board!!!

And many thanks for your efforts to support the speed sailing community with specialised products

As usual great work guys. We really appreciate all your efforts

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formosa101 said..

decrepit said..

John340 said..


Mike,

Can you change the ACT SPD (eg from Max speed to @500) during a speed session while in GPS mode. I can only the ACT SPD when not in GPS mode?

I don't think so John, you have to drop out of GPS mode to adjust anything, all you can do in gps mode is delete stuff, so be careful.

I adjusted ACT SPD yesterday on the water, from 100m to alpha, but it didn't seem to make any difference, I still had an instantaneous speed readout.
Unless of course I misunderstand what ACT SPD is supposed to do.

The "ACT SPD" can only be changed in the settings menu.

Here is the rule of The "ACTION SPEED" display:

(1) if ACT SPD is set to "SPEED" : always display instantaneous speed.

(2) if ACT SPD is set to MAX/NSEC/100M/250M/500M speed type:
if the the speed type is not "available" (for example, traveled distance is less than 250M), instantaneous speed is displayed,
otherwise the selected speed(calculated based on the latest speed samples) will be displayed.

(3) if ACT SPD is set to &500 speed type:
if &500 speed is not available, instantaneous speed is displayed,otherwise "so-far" best &500 speed is displayed.

I'm following this tread with great interest from Belgium.
That Locosys is following this directly sounds great and I'm excited about the very fast response with firmware updates to solve issues.
Tnx Formosa101

The screen light remains on for only 2s. Thats a bit of a hassle when setting things because one always has to re-light it, and by that often press out of the menu.
Would it be possible to build in the possibility to keep the light on for a longer periode?
Tnx.

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formosa101 said..
>>>

The "ACT SPD" can only be changed in the settings menu.

Here is the rule of The "ACTION SPEED" display:

(1) if ACT SPD is set to "SPEED" : always display instantaneous speed.

(2) if ACT SPD is set to MAX/NSEC/100M/250M/500M speed type:
if the the speed type is not "available" (for example, traveled distance is less than 250M), instantaneous speed is displayed,
otherwise the selected speed(calculated based on the latest speed samples) will be displayed.

(3) if ACT SPD is set to &500 speed type:
if &500 speed is not available, instantaneous speed is displayed,otherwise "so-far" best &500 speed is displayed.

Thanks Formosa, this is what makes your presence so valuable! It clears up all the ambiguities and guesswork.
And it explains why I saw no change yesterday, I hadn't actually achieved a result in the categorys I'd set in ACT SPD

Unfortunately not enough wind today to test version "C", hopefully I'll be able to do that tomorrow.

Just a thought, but I think if Top RSLT shows the best alpha, then I think it would be more useful for ACT SPD to show the last one, that way you can tell what changes to technique are having to your results.

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formosa101 said..
Yeap.
In the pass 2 months, we discussed with Dr. Tom Chalko intensively about the alpha racing requirement and the possibility to implement it in the GW60.
The current version is the result.
Thanks Tom.

(The screen "upside down" requirement also comes from Tom...)

A big thanks to Dr Tom as well as locosys!

So any idea about the chances of 2s, NM and 1hr being implemented?

With the 4 windows I don't think room is a problem. I'd much rather see 2s than max speed, and NM and hr instead of 100m, and 250m

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decrepit said..

formosa101 said..
>>>

The "ACT SPD" can only be changed in the settings menu.

Here is the rule of The "ACTION SPEED" display:

(1) if ACT SPD is set to "SPEED" : always display instantaneous speed.

(2) if ACT SPD is set to MAX/NSEC/100M/250M/500M speed type:
if the the speed type is not "available" (for example, traveled distance is less than 250M), instantaneous speed is displayed,
otherwise the selected speed(calculated based on the latest speed samples) will be displayed.

(3) if ACT SPD is set to &500 speed type:
if &500 speed is not available, instantaneous speed is displayed,otherwise "so-far" best &500 speed is displayed.

Thanks Formosa, this is what makes your presence so valuable! It clears up all the ambiguities and guesswork.
And it explains why I saw no change yesterday, I hadn't actually achieved a result in the categorys I'd set in ACT SPD

Unfortunately not enough wind today to test version "C", hopefully I'll be able to do that tomorrow.

Just a thought, but I think if Top RSLT shows the best alpha, then I think it would be more useful for ACT SPD to show the last one, that way you can tell what changes to technique are having to your results.

Yes, but that is stil way to short.
In setting mode thats very annoying.

Sorry, my previous post is about the backlight time of 2s.

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Patatg said..
Sorry, my previous post is about the backlight time of 2s.

Yes you had me wondering for a while there.

But why set the watch in the dark? There should be plenty of time and opportunity to set it in the light?