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WhiteofHeart said..
I am ... a psychometrician...
Thank you for the long post.
Psychometrician is getting emotional and it is ok. Engineers are more pragmatic and less emotional. As an engineer I get excited by the engineering results. For example you say that F4 bits Fly-Y and I start thinking about it and get interested why would F4 bit Fly-Y. I am thinking perhaps, you have seen F4 next to Fly-Y. We, engineers got used to ignore propaganda but we pay attention to facts. If you have had an experiment showing F4 wins vs Fly-Y I should be able to have the same result. Because in my experiment Fly-Y bits F4, as an engineer I do not get excited as a psychometrician. As an engineer I want to find why F4 bits Fly-Y when you test it but Fly-Y bits F4 when I test it. In my location an older rider was on F4 and he could not get on the foil very well because of light wind so my FLY-Y was definitely faster because I was in flight and F4 was not in flight. When F4 got in flight it was not very stable, wiggling side-to side so it was loosing again. When F4 was kind of ok in stable flight it was going little slower than Fly-Y. F4 rider owns it for 2 years. Fly-Y came to market 2 months ago. The conclusions from my experiment is that even with longer practice F4 is more difficult to ride. Fly-Y is more stable in comparison to F4. Fly-Y is definitely earlier in flight compared to F4. There is a video of frpgear foils flying when Slingshot foils still pumping.
This is an interesting phenomena because it is not completely explained why both frp foils Koryaga and fly-y get in flight at lighter wind. This is the area where an experienced psychometrician like you can educate an engineer like me. From engineering prospective I do not see how the shape of the platform (mast) can make frp foils fly earlier. But from psychometrician prospective I would think that it must be a reason why frp keeps making these exotic platforms probably at higher cost instead of making low cost traditional foil masts. Do you think if I install my fly-y wing on F4 mast I will get a better results? If frpfoils get in flight earlier with the ugly Koryaga and fly-y platforms does it mean that the efficiency of frpgear wings is so good so it compensates for the ugly look of the platforms? If so, frp should make a traditional mast design with its efficient wings, but they are not doing that. A typical psychometrician may explain this simple because frp designers are psychos and many on this forum agree but not a pragmatic engineer. As an engineer I know how much cost and effort it takes to develop a product as complex as Fly-Y or Koryaga. While in engineering I have not met anyone investing so much into something without a practical reason. This is why I think that frp is using these exotic forms because these forms work better. I agree with you that the pdf on frpgear.com does not completely explain the reason why frp products win F4 in light wind. (I am not interested in racing) The pdf looks like a promotion without telling the key secret. Apparently frp pdf worked because I see many read it and even commented.
BTW, I can jibe now in my fly-y and I found it to be very easy to jump on it. But I do not know about the loops. Unfortunately I do not have much time to foil. I am not a good windsurfer. This is why I like fly-y. It allows me (under 200lb) to get in flight at 8 knots gust and continue my flight regardless of wind variations at about 16 knots speed. I do not like stronger winds because my fly-y goes too fast for me. Perhaps I will get used to high foil speeds when I practice more. But now I am very pleased that I can foil when experienced windsurfers are standing on the beach and watching me foiling because they do not have enough wind. Without fly-y I would be standing on the beach watching them. I do not compete. With fly-y I can go foiling without even checking wind because I will have my gust any way. In fact it is more pleasure to get a gust and fly on very flat water. spectators on the beach do not feel the gust because gust are very local on my spot so they are watching me and pointing at me because I go 16 knots without wind from their point of view. And I do not need a harness at such of light winds, which is a good safety benefit. I think most of the foilers here on the forum are still learning and it is ok. Foiling is new and it seems evolving considering new hydrofoil design arrivals from frp.
Going back to F4 vs Fly-y:
I get in flight on fly-y before F4 so I thought that I had light wind wing. But when F4 gets in flight it does not go faster than fly-y. On a traditional foil if it gets in flight earlier it goes slow while in flight. But fly-y gets in flight earlier and goes as fast as F4 when F4 can fly too. I examined F4 wings. F4 wings are about 2 times thicker compared to fly-y. F4 stab is convex on both sides. Fly-Y stab is flat on the top and only 4mm thick. F4 wing is about 20cm shorter span. F4 stab is about 15cm longer span. from engineering prospective it seems fly-y is just better balanced because it has an option to move entire foil along the board. F4 has better surface finish.
You brought up a list of respectful foiling companies giving them a credit for engineering. I am sure they are better in foiling design than me. But from a person off the street I see the following: there are basically 4 unique hydrofoil designs in the industry:
- airplane design from over 100 foil manufacturers
- fly-y design from frpgear
- koryaga design from frpgear
- fly-fin from frpgear
From someone not an inexperienced the situation looks like frpgear is covering 75% of the R&D world windsurfing hydrofoil effort. And I am not surprised that 75% of modern wind foiling innovations are originated in the US. And, it is a pleasure to see that Made in the USA is finally price competitive (credit to Trump.)
As an engineer I am still wandering how do some colleges here make accurate conclusion about fly-y without riding it?
TASSIEROCKS
> 9 months ago, 30 Apr 2017
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