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CAN17 said..
This is my 5'4 x 70cm x 5" thick. Used a flat deck also and no cutouts. Made sure to sand the square rails sharp so they dig into the water when pumping giving grip and easy water release. It is probably closer to 130L at a guess.
Interesting the response from Mr slingshot about cutouts. "With cutouts it planes early but is too powerful to force early takeoff. Cutouts allow easy planing and controlled early takeoff" this was in regards to his 4'2 bobba windfoil board with massive steps.

Looking Good

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miamiwindsurfe said..



This was first day on my new board(Tillo custom) i guess 3 months ago, 172cm*80cm, my mast foot now all the way back comparing to this foto,ordering another one for Cabarete, one of main changes, mast track 3-4 " back

Hello miamiwindurfe, this board as many others in this forum are basically with no nose; may I ask you and the others what is like to ride such a short nose board?
I am afraind with 3 aspects mainly: 1- uphaul since many times I go out with sails I would not be able to waterstart with given the size vs wind streght 2 slogghing, since happens frequently in the mediterranean see expecially with thermal winds that it drops suddenly and you get in the dust-3 sail carrying ability, a bigger sail (in my case would mean 6.7) may need some nose to push on, so some volume should be needed..I say should becasue I never rode similar boards and just imagine what they would be like, mine so far has quite a bit volume on the nose (old hypersonic 133 modified for foiling, mainly on the back, front untouched) .

Thank you for any advice, report, consideration

Edoardo

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dimacced said..

miamiwindsurfe said..



This was first day on my new board(Tillo custom) i guess 3 months ago, 172cm*80cm, my mast foot now all the way back comparing to this foto,ordering another one for Cabarete, one of main changes, mast track 3-4 " back

Hello miamiwindurfe, this board as many others in this forum are basically with no nose; may I ask you and the others what is like to ride such a short nose board?
I am afraind with 3 aspects mainly: 1- uphaul since many times I go out with sails I would not be able to waterstart with given the size vs wind streght 2 slogghing, since happens frequently in the mediterranean see expecially with thermal winds that it drops suddenly and you get in the dust-3 sail carrying ability, a bigger sail (in my case would mean 6.7) may need some nose to push on, so some volume should be needed..I say should becasue I never rode similar boards and just imagine what they would be like, mine so far has quite a bit volume on the nose (old hypersonic 133 modified for foiling, mainly on the back, front untouched) .

Thank you for any advice, report, consideration

Edoardo

Mine i can still uphaul, tack, etc.. i didn't want to loose any big that since i sail in area behere wind could drop to zero. Board 172*80 120l or do, new one I'm waiting i reduced volume in the back, and increase in the nose, reducing overall volume to 114l, i am light 62 kg

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Mine i can still uphaul, tack, etc.. i didn't want to loose any big that since i sail in area behere wind could drop to zero. Board 172*80 120l or do, new one I'm waiting i reduced volume in the back, and increase in the nose, reducing overall volume to 114l, i am light 62 kg

62 kg, I think maximum you need is 95 - 100 l

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coolmove said..

Mine i can still uphaul, tack, etc.. i didn't want to loose any big that since i sail in area behere wind could drop to zero. Board 172*80 120l or do, new one I'm waiting i reduced volume in the back, and increase in the nose, reducing overall volume to 114l, i am light 62 kg

62 kg, I think maximum you need is 95 - 100 l

172*80 dimensions I'm happy with, less in volume or length/width i don't see benefits, just loosing some options or making them more difficult in regards of tacking, slogging, etc.

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coolmove said..

Mine i can still uphaul, tack, etc.. i didn't want to loose any big that since i sail in area behere wind could drop to zero. Board 172*80 120l or do, new one I'm waiting i reduced volume in the back, and increase in the nose, reducing overall volume to 114l, i am light 62 kg

62 kg, I think maximum you need is 95 - 100 l

172*80 dimensions I'm happy with, less in volume or length/width i don't see benefits, just loosing some options or making them more difficult in regards of tacking, slogging, etc.

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miamiwindsurfe said..

dimacced said..

miamiwindsurfe said..



This was first day on my new board(Tillo custom) i guess 3 months ago, 172cm*80cm, my mast foot now all the way back comparing to this foto,ordering another one for Cabarete, one of main changes, mast track 3-4 " back

Hello miamiwindurfe, this board as many others in this forum are basically with no nose; may I ask you and the others what is like to ride such a short nose board?
I am afraind with 3 aspects mainly: 1- uphaul since many times I go out with sails I would not be able to waterstart with given the size vs wind streght 2 slogghing, since happens frequently in the mediterranean see expecially with thermal winds that it drops suddenly and you get in the dust-3 sail carrying ability, a bigger sail (in my case would mean 6.7) may need some nose to push on, so some volume should be needed..I say should becasue I never rode similar boards and just imagine what they would be like, mine so far has quite a bit volume on the nose (old hypersonic 133 modified for foiling, mainly on the back, front untouched) .

Thank you for any advice, report, consideration

Edoardo

Mine i can still uphaul, tack, etc.. i didn't want to loose any big that since i sail in area behere wind could drop to zero. Board 172*80 120l or do, new one I'm waiting i reduced volume in the back, and increase in the nose, reducing overall volume to 114l, i am light 62 kg

You are much lighter than me I am 73 kg dry, what is the max sail size you can put on your board to manage comfortably?
I would like to make a freeride board that I could change charcter of covering 6.7 to 4ish sails, but I believe the 6.7 would require some nose volume to handle

I weight 69kg. My board is 170x62 and 100l. No problem uphaul, slogging... when slogging, tack is easier than jibe. I have the UJ rather mid length of the board (very aft of the track, if I had known, I would have set it a few cm aft).
It is becoming my only windfoil board, from 10 to 30kt. I used a 6m sail on it, but getting better at foiling (and with a larger front wing 1300) I use 5.3 as my larger sail. Smallest is a 3.2m, and I am considering a sub 3m investment...

Here is an old vid of one of my first ride with it, with my 6.0 and old foil (around 900 I guess). It is a 360 immersive, so you can turn the view around and see the board especially when I uphaul : volume repartition is key.

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dimacced said..

miamiwindsurfe said..

dimacced said..

miamiwindsurfe said..



This was first day on my new board(Tillo custom) i guess 3 months ago, 172cm*80cm, my mast foot now all the way back comparing to this foto,ordering another one for Cabarete, one of main changes, mast track 3-4 " back

Hello miamiwindurfe, this board as many others in this forum are basically with no nose; may I ask you and the others what is like to ride such a short nose board?
I am afraind with 3 aspects mainly: 1- uphaul since many times I go out with sails I would not be able to waterstart with given the size vs wind streght 2 slogghing, since happens frequently in the mediterranean see expecially with thermal winds that it drops suddenly and you get in the dust-3 sail carrying ability, a bigger sail (in my case would mean 6.7) may need some nose to push on, so some volume should be needed..I say should becasue I never rode similar boards and just imagine what they would be like, mine so far has quite a bit volume on the nose (old hypersonic 133 modified for foiling, mainly on the back, front untouched) .

Thank you for any advice, report, consideration

Edoardo

Mine i can still uphaul, tack, etc.. i didn't want to loose any big that since i sail in area behere wind could drop to zero. Board 172*80 120l or do, new one I'm waiting i reduced volume in the back, and increase in the nose, reducing overall volume to 114l, i am light 62 kg

You are much lighter than me I am 73 kg dry, what is the max sail size you can put on your board to manage comfortably?
I would like to make a freeride board that I could change charcter of covering 6.7 to 4ish sails, but I believe the 6.7 would require some nose volume to handle

Comfort is relative, for the type of sailing i do, 5.1 is my biggest and 3.3 the small one, I'm learning that nothing needed in between to cover range 6-30+kn. Sail under 7m2 still should be ok though on my board

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6u1d0 said..
I weight 69kg. My board is 170x62 and 100l. No problem uphaul, slogging... when slogging, tack is easier than jibe. I have the UJ rather mid length of the board (very aft of the track, if I had known, I would have set it a few cm aft).
It is becoming my only windfoil board, from 10 to 30kt. I used a 6m sail on it, but getting better at foiling (and with a larger front wing 1300) I use 5.3 as my larger sail. Smallest is a 3.2m, and I am considering a sub 3m investment...

Here is an old vid of one of my first ride with it, with my 6.0 and old foil (around 900 I guess). It is a 360 immersive, so you can turn the view around and see the board especially when I uphaul : volume repartition is key.

Hi 6u1d0, thank you for posting this video, very interesting.
I am afraid I am much better as a board builder than I am as a windfoiler at the moment, you are much better than me I guess. I would like still to experiment various type of foiling: from relative big sail and small foil (800 cm2) or more centered stance (as yours) and relative big foil (my biggest so far 1000 cm2).
It seems fro the video you are having this session on a lake; I normally go on sea and water state is much more messy, so everything gets more complicated. I believe when getting more proficient, I will land close were you and others in this forum are, this kind of foiling is intriguing me a lot, but I need to get there progressively. I admit that at the moment I also enjoy speed on the foil and blasting competing with my mates windsurfing is a joy, I wonder if I could make a board which is tunable enough to cover the spectrum with good compromise to explore both kind of foiling and then see were should I go from there.
I see your mast base very far back, despite the very short board is close to middle board (90-95 cm from stern?).
Good to see you manage with a high aspect foil as well...that is interesting.

One question if I may: when you see volume repartition is key what do you mean specifically? have you some figures in mind you can share as a target for me to design?

Thank you so much for sharing I really appreciated

cheers

Edoardo

I was lucky with this design.
By volume repartition I meant that having enough volume to confortably uphaul (about 90l or more in my case) then you need the volume to be about the same forward and aft of the mast base.
Considering UJ setting for foiling, I prefer to use the distance between the forward bolt ot the tuttle box and the UJ, as distancefromstern depends on tail outline. As you can see, as was the trend when I designed this board, it is rather a no tail. So my set up is 82cm forward of front DTT bolt.
I wish I could sail more often on open sea, but it is much a longer drive for me. Plus the depth and steep bottom slope of this lake makes it ideal for foiling.
If you want to build up your foiling skills, not knowing if you want to go big and wide for slalom like sailing, or small and inboard for freefoiling, I would suggest designing something Tiny like (from Horue). The Horue Tiny is still one of the best and versatile design.
My first dedicated foil board was a Tiny like of about 110l and 190x75cm.
A pic of my two boards :

When I want to go for sailing with my larger and camed sail (challenger Sail Bad 6.3)I use the larger one. But it is very good with a wave sail too. I just feel limited by its width when I want to carve hard, but this only since a few mounths, as I have gained a lot of confidence with my smaller board.

Regarding foil wing ratio, I believe that you should focus more on the profile : each profile is optimised for a specific speed range, and some have a wide range of efficiency, some just aim top speed. There are many trade of made by wing designer.
Depending on what characteristics you're looking for, you'll have to talk a lot with wing designer to get an idea of what they worked on, then figure out how to use it.

Riding in waves would require as long a foil mast you can manage to launch.

Very nice and helpful information. Thank you

Edoardo

I think if you installed footstrap inserts centered on the Tiny it would have even more versatility.

She is finally ready for water. 5'4 x 70cm x 5" thick. This board is taking the word 'compact' to another level

Quick rundown of my setup; the length falls in between the slingshot wizard 90 and 114L but at a guess the volume is close to the 130L mark. this board is meant to get foiling in very light winds, uphaul and schlog easy with small sails under 5.4m. I have shrunk my foil to mast foot and stance distance compared to the slingshot wizard 105L and added center back strap that I'm super excited about to give me the ultimate wave riding experience on foil.

Nice, very pragmatic construction, let's see how it performs on the water and the air.
I noticed you didn't use a sandwich construction most of the windsurfing boards are made of.
I see most of the wingfoil boards are not sandwich built either, though I have seen some heavily damaged.
Do you have experience with this kind of construction with previous boards, did they last? I am particularly concerned with foil base among all, but the connection lines between foil, footstraps and mast base are also important to transfer forces properly and give adequate rigidity.
Frankly speaking I do not have an opinion, just curious, I just simply never considered possible to do it and I may be wrong.

Ciao

Edoardo

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dimacced said..
Nice, very pragmatic construction, let's see how it performs on the water and the air.
I noticed you didn't use a sandwich construction most of the windsurfing boards are made of.
I see most of the wingfoil boards are not sandwich built either, though I have seen some heavily damaged.
Do you have experience with this kind of construction with previous boards, did they last? I am particularly concerned with foil base among all, but the connection lines between foil, footstraps and mast base are also important to transfer forces properly and give adequate rigidity.
Frankly speaking I do not have an opinion, just curious, I just simply never considered possible to do it and I may be wrong.

Ciao

Edoardo

Good questions. I have made one pump board before with simlair construction, no vacuum bag surfboard style but very stiff.
I added reinforcements to the box and connected it to the deck with extra carbon and glass, I used 2lbs/ft3 eps so should also help(being a bit more dence then normal boards) compact boards like this are already pretty strong without the extra reinforcements like carbon. The rest of the board and the rails seem very strong and ding resistant with 4x6oz fiberglass layers. Even productions boards with sandwich can get soft around the back foot stance area or just in front of there. They're definitely made to be more strict on material=more cost to manufacturer. This isn't the lightest board at 20lbs but only a few pounds heavier then my slingshot wizard 105L so seems relative to the size.

Reinforced deep Tuttle box with big pine stringers.

Super Epic Connor. You think it will get wet before spring?

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thedoor said..
Super Epic Connor. You think it will get wet before spring?

Yup, tomorrow 10am. Will report back

Think this is my favorite thread ever! Great to see people testing their own ideas and tinkering with stuff, awesome.

Looking forward to seeing video Connor

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CoreAS said..
Think this is my favorite thread ever! Great to see people testing their own ideas and tinkering with stuff, awesome.

Looking forward to seeing video Connor

Gopro was out of juice unfortunately for this mornings maiden voyage. Bit brisk start out 5C air thankfully the water is a lot warmer still

Schloging in the straps and tacks were easy on this board felt kinda simlair to the wizard 105 just with a bit more buoyancy and no nose dives which was a good accomplishment considering its 5'4 long, was on a 4.7 and had the base around the middle(~43" from rear foil bolt). Could have decreased shim angle on stab 0.5 deg for less lift. It pops up out of the water nicely and quickly as I expected (which convinced me more that you don't need cutouts). Once up in the air it feels a lot smaller and compact with the short stubby nose. It goes up wind like crazy because of the wide tail and the center back strap is super fun and something I was missing the last year. It feels more like a wing board then a windsurf board, I think this is a size that one of the main manufacturers should have made for windsurf wave foilng. long thin boards are old school and thin short boards are not practical for 95% of us, go thick and short. Even the bigger riders +200lbs would be able to ride this no problem.
Was flat water today. Can't wait to try it in some proper conditions this fall

Nice to hear it is performing weel.
No cutouts..yeah definitely a marketing thing I think, our made boards may be hugly looking but work.
In flat water did you get some decent speed? What is your weight? how much wind? Normally the larger ans shorter the board the more difficult is to make it accelerate and fly...whenyou say 'it gets off the water nicely and quickly' what do you mean? No pumping?

I now...so many questions, I am curious on how it goes and if there may be any feedback I can use to refine my design before getting into resin work.

thank you so much for any feedback.

ciao

Edoardo

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dimacced said..
Nice to hear it is performing weel.
No cutouts..yeah definitely a marketing thing I think, our made boards may be hugly looking but work.
In flat water did you get some decent speed? What is your weight? how much wind? Normally the larger ans shorter the board the more difficult is to make it accelerate and fly...whenyou say 'it gets off the water nicely and quickly' what do you mean? No pumping?

I now...so many questions, I am curious on how it goes and if there may be any feedback I can use to refine my design before getting into resin work.

thank you so much for any feedback.

ciao

Edoardo

It was gusting close to 20kts max and some 6-8kt lulls of almost no wind very on and off gusty small lake condition and had to float out to the wind line a good 200m. On any other retail board this short I'd be hating life in these conditions. Was using a 4.7 wave sail, I'm 150lbs. I didn't have the GPS on but feel like I went high teens today about the wind speed. Didn't feel hard to get up on foil using simlair pumping technique to my old board slingshot wizard 105, the nose rocker feels good it doesn't dig into the water
, the extra volume I put in the nose helps float the rig and the tail has so much volume you can stand in the straps easily and keep the board pretty level still and it's stable it doesn't feel corky(keep in mind the board is probably 130L). Had my mast base further back then I would on my other board but same foil setting and needed a bit more input from front foot when riding to acomadate the extra lift from the foil. Using the sabfoil 111 mast, 799/450 with 2.5deg shim going to try 2deg next time and see how it is. Was riding a bit nose up to get foiling when pumping from the extra lift and the compact sail to foot stance was a different feeling, I see what Simon means about pumping more like a winger with shorter small pumps to get foiling. I was originally a little nervous about the wide tail catching on waves so will see how it works in waves but should be ok on the long mast. I only saw benefits from the wide tail today. It is just wide enough that I can have my size 12 feet on the opposite rail with my heel touching the rear strap when gybing
For tighter and full performance laying the rig down Simon's narrower shape with the tucked in tail looks like the go!
I wanna make a smaller board a little narrower and 100L next but probably next year. This thing already feels like a step up in performance.

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CAN17 said..

It was gusting close to 20kts max and some 6-8kt lulls of almost no wind very on and off gusty small lake condition and had to float out to the wind line a good 200m. On any other retail board this short I'd be hating life in these conditions. Was using a 4.7 wave sail, I'm 150lbs. I didn't have the GPS on but feel like I went high teens today about the wind speed. Didn't feel hard to get up on foil using simlair pumping technique to my old board slingshot wizard 105, the nose rocker feels good it doesn't dig into the water
, the extra volume I put in the nose helps float the rig and the tail has so much volume you can stand in the straps easily and keep the board pretty level still and it's stable it doesn't feel corky(keep in mind the board is probably 130L). Had my mast base further back then I would on my other board but same foil setting and needed a bit more input from front foot when riding to acomadate the extra lift from the foil. Using the sabfoil 111 mast, 799/450 with 2.5deg shim going to try 2deg next time and see how it is. Was riding a bit nose up to get foiling when pumping from the extra lift and the compact sail to foot stance was a different feeling, I see what Simon means about pumping more like a winger with shorter small pumps to get foiling. I was originally a little nervous about the wide tail catching on waves so will see how it works in waves but should be ok on the long mast. I only saw benefits from the wide tail today. It is just wide enough that I can have my size 12 feet on the opposite rail with my heel touching the rear strap when gybing
For tighter and full performance laying the rig down Simon's narrower shape with the tucked in tail looks like the go!
I wanna make a smaller board a little narrower and 100L next but probably next year. This thing already feels like a step up in performance.

Nice work Connor

I'm really liking the center back strap on this board. Stuck with my 2.5deg shim on the stab as the extra lift is needed in order to keep lift and speed for carving tight turns, it's super playful in the small ankle high waves. Frothing to see what it can do in bigger waves.

Video: 10-20kts and 8deg air 15deg water, 4.7m sail.
www.instagram.com/reel/CjeO6xKjzIm/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Nice to see you enjoing It! Is It difficult to uphaul and get It Flying? I never rode anything so short and I would be tempted but afraid to not be abile to ride It coming from my 210 cm lenght board. Volume wise we are almost there, around 130 liters, through distributed in much longher board. So far I am still on the design tablet with a 190x 70 template.

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dimacced said..
Nice to see you enjoing It! Is It difficult to uphaul and get It Flying? I never rode anything so short and I would be tempted but afraid to not be abile to ride It coming from my 210 cm lenght board. Volume wise we are almost there, around 130 liters, through distributed in much longher board. So far I am still on the design tablet with a 190x 70 template.

The board is super easy to uphaul certainly not any more difficult compared to my slingshot wizard 105. Tested it out in light wind today 7-15kts. Was on a 5.4 and sabfoil 799/450 on 111cm mast. Very impressed with light wind performance today, my goal was to make a board that has the same light wind performance or better in a more compact shape which is definitely possible and not that hard
The key is giving the nose enough volume to easily float sails up to 6m. I'm guessing you could use up to 7m on my board if your light (under 160lbs). I gave this board slightly more nose rocker also so it does not dig into the water and stuff the nose when pumping.

I'd say with your design at 190cm it would feel plenty short going with a thinner nose. When. I went from a 215cm jp 135L to the 180cm it was a big step down this custom is another step down but is very floaty because the thickness. The Pros to thicker nose would be stronger/stiffer and you could go shorter then a thinner nose to get similar light wind performance. Just like the comparison between how the wizard 105 and the 125, aggressive pumping could get foiling the same as people on the wizard 125 just more difficult on the 105. Its all tradeoff but I feel like the volume distribution is really nice on this thing. It really depends on what conditions you foil in and what kind of foiling you do and personal preference. The board I designed is not ment for places that are flat water only and just blasting with lots of power like freeracers, for that longer nose with the mast track further foward would be more efficient to get foiling. The short stubby nose on my 5'4 is giving maximum efficiency for its size but in no way is getting foiling as easily or early as the big freerace boards which are going to carry bigger sails also. 5.4 is the biggest sail I use these days.

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Thank you for the feedback. Yes I am designing a Wide and thick nose with the aim to resist sail Wright and COE generated push down, I am actually looking for a true free ride board, so nor a race One nor a wave riding Sled either, a design that Will Be slower than race one and able lto carry max 7m sail comfortably, and less agile than a pure wave or swell riding or freestyle board, but capable to do some decently. Sort of board I could grow on and experience differenti kind of windfoiling Styles.

Cheers

Edoardo

Edoardo,

With those goals I would install a 16" mast track, especially if you are using a tuttle box foil. Also multiple footstrap positions.

Hello grantmac, I use track mount for foil base and so far a 10" mast base, not Easy to find a 16" in Europe. Through 16" Is a lot, so far I don't use all the range of the 10" for the mast track, while I used all the available range on the foil mount. I probably Need to make myself a 16" carbone track ...

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dimacced said..
so far I don't use all the range of the 10" for the mast track, ... I probably Need to make myself a 16" carbone track ...

yep 10" is what is 'long track'. That's what is chose. From my experience on short freefoil type board, I should have placed it further back, as I am always all the way back on both my boards.