Decided it was time to take what I've learnt from foil boards and put it into a custom.
I wanted a board with low swing weight but enough volume to uphaul. I wanted volume under my foot straps, so straps forward which means foil forward while at the same time the ability to move the UJ back towards my front straps.
"Mark Australia" has been building bulletproof custom wave boards for years so I went to him with pages of information
The result is everything I could have dreamed it would be.
170 x 66 x 14 ,110 litres , 8 kgs with straps
A board this short requires precision technique to pop it up onto the foil but it releases cleanly without feeling "sticky"
It is a carving machine, super low swing weight with the ability to schlog home if the wind drops.
Well done Mark

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2keen said..







Decided it was time to take what I've learnt from foil boards and put it into a custom.
I wanted a board with low swing weight but enough volume to uphaul. I wanted volume under my foot straps, so straps forward which means foil forward while at the same time the ability to move the UJ back towards my front straps.
"Mark Australia" has been building bulletproof custom wave boards for years so I went to him with pages of information
The result is everything I could have dreamed it would be.
170 x 66 x 14 ,110 litres , 8 kgs with straps
A board this short requires precision technique to pop it up onto the foil but it releases cleanly without feeling "sticky"
It is a carving machine, super low swing weight with the ability to schlog home if the wind drops.
Well done Mark

How does it feel in comparison to the 87 freestyle?

Whow, really nice board. Long foil tracks and crazy short and far back mast track. Would like to see a video you riding this beauty

Wow, that looks like very compact geometry, cool!

Board has 16 inch foil tracks, 8 inch mast track.
Compared to the SS 87, weight is same, volume is further back, mast track further back, foot straps further forward all resulting in a looser feel
Conditions here aren't particularly conducive to video at the moment but I will try and post something soon

Bloke likes orange.


Happy you love it Simon

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2keen said..
...mast track further back...

Understatement

Lovely board, well done to you both for the idea and execution.

NIce work gents! You are on the leading edge of this discipline!

Nice, many similarities to mine. But I'm into neon green, can you comfortably tack it?

Compared to SS boards, made for SS foil, the geometry, especially mast track, looks off. But if it works for you, then great!

Personally, I think the discussion of swing weight as an issue in foiling is just BS to get people to buy shorter boards that are harder to uphaul and tack!

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Sandman1221 said..
Compared to SS boards, made for SS foil, the geometry, especially mast track, looks off. But if it works for you, then great!

Personally, I think the discussion of swing weight as an issue in foiling is just BS to get people to buy shorter boards that are harder to uphaul and tack!

How many different boards have you foiled on?

Fantastic Simon and the next step in wind foiling evolution for sure with custom wind foil boards.

I have been thinking of doing the same for a while and you are the man to kick it off.

I enjoyed foiling the FS115 but wasn't keen on the tail and felt like it needed more width, I need more volume than you but
cannot wait to see your new board in action, reckon you are onto something and with the mast base so far back you'll be pulling off Balz style transitions on it

Hmm I may have to started putting my ideas into action....great stuff!

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Sandman1221 said..
Personally, I think the discussion of swing weight as an issue in foiling is just BS to get people to buy shorter boards that are harder to uphaul and tack!

I don't even own a uphaul

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2keen said..
Board has 16 inch foil tracks, 8 inch mast track.
Compared to the SS 87, weight is same, volume is further back, mast track further back, foot straps further forward all resulting in a looser feel
Conditions here aren't particularly conducive to video at the moment but I will try and post something soon

Looks great !. Can't wait to see some video action.

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Sandman1221 said..
Compared to SS boards, made for SS foil, the geometry, especially mast track, looks off.

Personally, I think the discussion of swing weight as an issue in foiling is just BS to get people to buy shorter boards that are harder to uphaul and tack!

But its not.

So now that's over with.....

Sweet ,interested to hear your thoughts on the mast track foot strap position.

Bringing the mast back towards the front foot straps was not my idea, Balz talks about it at 6:30 in the link.
The advantage is not just for aerial spinning manoeuvres (of which I do none) but for carving. I found with both my Wizard 114 and Freestyle 87 the further back the sail the easier it gets to control the foil especially when the power in the sail is on and off like it is when carving swell or waves
Balz does clarify though that it will be " much harder at first because it's going to be reactive and weird"

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KDog said..
Sweet ,interested to hear your thoughts on the mast track foot strap position.

I was going to but bear in mind this is not my design ideas, its 2Keens design so I am not claiming any ideas. Further, Balz says it all on that video.

My take on it though is getting CLR, COE to line up is what windsurfing has been about forever. Now we also have foil lift, the footstrap positioning has to balance the old COE/CLR equation but it also has to balance the axis of pitch - as you're flying.

The really good foilers are getting more and more compact with mast, feet and foil - which makes sense. Getting everything closer together will make it more reactive but harder. Like race car steering or even just narrow stance on your windsurfing waveboard.

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2keen said..

Bringing the mast back towards the front foot straps was not my idea, Balz talks about it at 6:30 in the link.

As he was talking about mastfoot position I was thinking just like winging, then he said exactly that.

Windsurfing started on longboards, then progressed into the short wave boards we have now and 'longer' freeride boards with different footstrap, mast track and sailing stances. Foil boards are developing into different shapes very quickly. Compare that custom shape to a board like my freerace AHD Compact 83 and they are chalk and cheese.

Last year i got a used pegasus 108. Did not get familiar with it. The step was too much for me (65y 75kg). Too narrow, way too short and all stuff too close. In my light choppy conditions it was a mess to get it flying. After some frustrating sessions i sold it. Will give the predator 110 a chance at the engadinwind exhibition. But it has no tracks and only little footpads. The alternative would be to make my own board, already have two chinook 16" tracks in stock.

Great looking board
in my mind, compact geometry, not ultra compact geometry, with the mast track way back, is the next step in evolution for the manoeuvre orientated foil boards.
Disconnects the influence of the mast foot pressure on the ride height.

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2keen said..







Decided it was time to take what I've learnt from foil boards and put it into a custom.
I wanted a board with low swing weight but enough volume to uphaul. I wanted volume under my foot straps, so straps forward which means foil forward while at the same time the ability to move the UJ back towards my front straps.
"Mark Australia" has been building bulletproof custom wave boards for years so I went to him with pages of information
The result is everything I could have dreamed it would be.
170 x 66 x 14 ,110 litres , 8 kgs with straps
A board this short requires precision technique to pop it up onto the foil but it releases cleanly without feeling "sticky"
It is a carving machine, super low swing weight with the ability to schlog home if the wind drops.
Well done Mark

That's a great looking board and has got me wondering whether Swift foiling in the UK could make me one! Does the backwards mast track position make it easier to uphaul on a short board?

I thought the mast track back looked aggressive - although very familiar with the Balz video - but then saw the set up on the Starboard FoilX in the Cookie jibe video that came out a few weeks back and posted on another thread. Plus a few shots of new combo boards I've seen lately. In that context, it would behoove me to try moving the mast foot back and seeing where it leads me.

fwiw, my 195cm board doesn't seem like it would gain anything by being shorter but I definitely ascribe to the notion that if something isn't useful, trim it away. With the mast track further back and all the volume under the rider, more nose, even if it isn't felt, isn't really providing much benefit so certainly makes sense to consider eliminating it. It's riders like 2keen who are pushing the boundaries that help inform the rest of us what is beneficial in a board design.

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Paducah said..
I thought the mast track back looked aggressive - although very familiar with the Balz video - but then saw the set up on the Starboard FoilX in the Cookie jibe video that came out a few weeks back and posted on another thread. Plus a few shots of new combo boards I've seen lately. In that context, it would behoove me to try moving the mast foot back and seeing where it leads me.

fwiw, my 195cm board doesn't seem like it would gain anything by being shorter but I definitely ascribe to the notion that if something isn't useful, trim it away. With the mast track further back and all the volume under the rider, more nose, even if it isn't felt, isn't really providing much benefit so certainly makes sense to consider eliminating it. It's riders like 2keen who are pushing the boundaries that help inform the rest of us what is beneficial in a board design.

Yes the FoilX has the mast track pretty far back compared to fin/hybrid/race foil and freeride boards. I looked at the starboard freeride foil board that someone else had out this weekend and it was similar to my Blast's.

This was first day on my new board(Tillo custom) i guess 3 months ago, 172cm*80cm, my mast foot now all the way back comparing to this foto,ordering another one for Cabarete, one of main changes, mast track 3-4 " back

Simon,
Of those three boards in your post, which one can you get flying the soonest? It may be too soon to tell but I bet your new board will take off easier once you get it dialed.

Also one thing not mentioned yet, I think there are gains in speed and windward ability to be made with this geometry. When the sail moves closer the foil, the down force is on a shorter lever so we should be able to use a smaller stab or less shim angle to balance it.

I also think as we move our sails back the sails will get shorter booms and/or the center of lift will move forward.

very nice board 2keen. You will have a lot of fun with the sail all the way back. i do ride my setting similiar and for carving its a blast!

For swingweight i can only say i never ever did only missed one cm board lenght for carving and maneuveroriented foiling. the shorter the better. i ride a 132cm / 4'3 board.

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simonp65 said..

2keen said..







Decided it was time to take what I've learnt from foil boards and put it into a custom.
I wanted a board with low swing weight but enough volume to uphaul. I wanted volume under my foot straps, so straps forward which means foil forward while at the same time the ability to move the UJ back towards my front straps.
"Mark Australia" has been building bulletproof custom wave boards for years so I went to him with pages of information
The result is everything I could have dreamed it would be.
170 x 66 x 14 ,110 litres , 8 kgs with straps
A board this short requires precision technique to pop it up onto the foil but it releases cleanly without feeling "sticky"
It is a carving machine, super low swing weight with the ability to schlog home if the wind drops.
Well done Mark

That's a great looking board and has got me wondering whether Swift foiling in the UK could make me one! Does the backwards mast track position make it easier to uphaul on a short board?

I'm really surprised that swift foiling haven't made a windfoil board similar to this already?
The design and characteristics seem to be very similar to wingfoil boards designed for flatter take off with HA front wings.
So they could probably just modify a 110/120 litre wing board and it would work.

It would be great to source boards, designed and made in your own country, rather than an inferior product being shipped around the world.
Also , it appears that the speed of evolution of wing boards and suitable foils is so quick, by the time you order a board and wait for it to turn up 6 months later, it'll be out of date.

Great to get so much positive feedback.
Uphauling is easier with the mast base close to the centre of volume, as for tacking its on my to do list as is upwind 360's think I'll wait till it warms up a little. The board gybes on a dime and foils point high so tacking would only be for novelty.
To early to say which board takes off earliest, I have a feeling once I refine my technique it may be the custom. The mast back allows a much more active board pump similar to wingers.
The whole custom process was exciting. It's one thing to have an idea but to have someone produce it "as imagined" is another thing altogether. Credit to Mark!!
It was great getting regular progress pictures seeing the concept evolve. The fact that it performs better than expected is such a bonus

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r3st0ck said..
... i ride a 132cm / 4'3 board.

You can't say something like that and not include pics.

This whole discussions reminds me very much of the "smaller is better" trend in windsurfing maybe a couple of decades ago. Sure, the pictures of world class wave sailor in Hawaii were exciting. But the effect was that any board large enough to float you was "uncool", as was any sail 6 m or larger. So many people at regular spots simply ended sitting up on the beach waiting for wind, and many got frustrated and gave up on windsurfing completely.

Some of the trends in windfoil gear seem to follow a similar trend - promoting design changes that benefit a small, but vocal and highly visible group of very skilled experts. The "mast foot closer to the straps" idea mimics what we've seen in freestyle windsurf boards. Fantastic for PWA and EFPT competitors doing double and triple "power" moves. But for more average sailors, what was once a fantastic multi-use board (the ~ 2012 Skate 110) has now become an expert-only board. But at least Fanatic has bucked some of the trends in other products, like the rather long Blasts for windsurfing, and much-loved (but not flashy) Stingrays for windfoiling.

As someone has predicted here a while ago, the vast majority of windfoilers for whom longer board length translates to "excessive swing weight" have transitioned to winging, which gets rid of the "mast foot" and "excessive swing weight" problems completely. I have yet to see a windfoiler who matches the carving abilities of a decent winger, and the "wings are slower" argument is becoming a thing of the past as winger's skills improve and they transition to high aspect foils.