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Ramona said..

julesmoto said..

r13 said..
Glory...........another Jonathan ransom note type advert but a lot of boat for $28k..........................I don't know if these were structurally suspect there are plenty of links on-line.......................

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/beneteau-38-needs-tidy-up-low-price-opertunity-sydney-harbour/317152

www.yachtingmonthly.com/reviews/yacht-reviews/beneteau-first-38-review-from-the-archive

Looks like it's been full of water at some stage.

It's full of mould so it might have had a few cup fulls of freshwater. I think Jonathon has priced it wisely. Someone who is prepared to get their hands dirty and wear a mask is going to get a good buy.

few cups of freshwater..... looks to me like it leaks like a sieve. I wouldn't mind betting the core of that deck is full of water.

A full refit at best even it it has "good bones", which I doubt. I suspect that hull would be as light and stiff as a wet cardboard box.

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cammd said..

Ramona said..

julesmoto said..

r13 said..
Glory...........another Jonathan ransom note type advert but a lot of boat for $28k..........................I don't know if these were structurally suspect there are plenty of links on-line.......................

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/beneteau-38-needs-tidy-up-low-price-opertunity-sydney-harbour/317152

www.yachtingmonthly.com/reviews/yacht-reviews/beneteau-first-38-review-from-the-archive

Looks like it's been full of water at some stage.

It's full of mould so it might have had a few cup fulls of freshwater. I think Jonathon has priced it wisely. Someone who is prepared to get their hands dirty and wear a mask is going to get a good buy.

few cups of freshwater..... looks to me like it leaks like a sieve. I wouldn't mind betting the core of that deck is full of water.

A full refit at best even it it has "good bones", which I doubt. I suspect that hull would be as light and stiff as a wet cardboard box.

I would say it has had the usual minor leak of freshwater through the deck at the chainplates. The stain is clearly visible. The stainless steel has a different expansion rate to the fibreglass so it is always going to leak eventually if a flexible sealant not used. Solid glass deck there so I certainly would not condemn a boat sight unseen. A small amount of freshwater in a yacht that has been closed up for a few months will get mould even if it has reasonable flow through of air. The mould on the settee cushions and the lifejackets indicate an absent owner!
I have clambered over a fair few yachts with cored decks and have not encountered one yet with a soggy deck. And that includes Hood 23's!

I'm thinking every single screw on that teak deck would be a potential/probable leak.

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Ramona said..

julesmoto said..

r13 said..
Glory...........another Jonathan ransom note type advert but a lot of boat for $28k..........................I don't know if these were structurally suspect there are plenty of links on-line.......................

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/beneteau-38-needs-tidy-up-low-price-opertunity-sydney-harbour/317152

www.yachtingmonthly.com/reviews/yacht-reviews/beneteau-first-38-review-from-the-archive

Looks like it's been full of water at some stage.

It's full of mould so it might have had a few cup fulls of freshwater. I think Jonathon has priced it wisely. Someone who is prepared to get their hands dirty and wear a mask is going to get a good buy.

The destruction of the veneers and probably ply thereunder below bunk height is what worries me as pictured below. That seems too indicate fairly deep water sloshing around above floor level at some point and probably not fresh.

The triangular cutout in the floor boards is a bit of an odd shape in a couple of the other pictures although it does give a glimpse into the bilge which shows that the boat predates the drop in integral liners/ floors/ pans. Still perhaps gluing vs tabbing of floors -it's a bit hard to see.

Either way the internal furniture and possibly bulkheads look trashed by water. Up from floor level.

Could this be the same Avanti that survived 98 Sydney Hobart? Details seems to match.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_Sydney_to_Hobart_Yacht_Race
forums.ybw.com/threads/sydney-hobart-beneteau.33079/

Avanti | Chris Mooney / John Mooney | First 38 | 1986 | FINISHED 27th across the line, 2nd PHS Div A

This is what staggers me about these old boats that are a long way from being a "going concern". They have been run down to the point where they should be offering money to take them away.

Even if you were going to supply all the materials and labour yourself to restore the boat (in some magical world where this wouldn't cost you 50k just for parts) it would probably cost you at least 10 grand to either lay the boat up somewhere you could do the work on it or keep it in a marina.

I get that if you were retired and had your mortgage paid you could basically work on the boat full time, but in that case, why in the hell wouldn't you just pay 50 grand for a decent boat and go sailing?

Absolutely - You can see it in every mooring field,where the initial run of inspiration/$ runs out,and the boat returns to its function as wildlife rescue/birdnest !

What is needed is someone to do a deal with the insurers where these boats can be disposed of and parted out to enable low-cost spares like the car market.
Winches, anchors, masts. Pulpits, booms... All the stuff that is costing far more than the labour cost of cleaning it up and servicing it.

even some of the electronics.

and most of them don't go, just swing on the moorings clogging up system. Each mooring field should have an annual big day out & those left on the moorings should be confiscated !

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JonE said..
What is needed is someone to do a deal with the insurers where these boats can be disposed of and parted out to enable low-cost spares like the car market.
Winches, anchors, masts. Pulpits, booms... All the stuff that is costing far more than the labour cost of cleaning it up and servicing it.

even some of the electronics.

I don't see how letting your boat run down is an Insurer's problem. We don't need our premiums to go up to pay for neglected boats.
I don't know the answer to neglected boats but something that financially makes it cheaper to dispose than keep to encourage owners to get rid of them off the water.
Maybe proof of lift out and antifoul every couple of years or rigging certificate to show its in date. Something that responsible owners do anyway so it's not added cost to maintained boats.

Perhaps a scheme where owners can dispose of them free by giving them away to some sort of marine wrecker who can part them out and turn a profit.

Cam I think if you got the insurers on side it would benefit everybody.

firstly all the old ** boats must be far more of a liability for the insurers. Cleaning them out of the pool would surely reduce premiums.

secondly it would reduce the likelihood of total write-off because if there was a second hand mast for 5 grand plus 10 to rig it, then you would keep your boat. If you needed 20-30k for a mast plus rigging they will write it off.

When boats get written off it costs insurers ton of money to dispose of them. We wear that cost in our premiums.

Your idea about maintenance haul out would be another way to deal with it for sure.

I think it would increase participation in the sport if it wasn't such a lottery at the bottom end of the market. I would say that 9 boats out of 10 in the under 50k for over 30 foot bracket should be scrapped.

So this one wouldn't ring your bell or make you sing?
yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/racer-cruiser-25-ft-yacht-fixed-keel-sydney/317292

You know beauty really is in the eye of the beholder isn't it! I would love to jet wash it inside and out and buy some used etchells sails.

im such a hypocrite!

Actually just had a proper look. This boat it the poster child for "why you should never buy a boat with ply decks"

Greato. Used s/h E22 sails on Farr727 (should never have sold that boat) including jib (forget if it needed to be cut down also got a J24 no2 jib for the boat and Mutiny 26 no2 which I cut down) E22 kite and mainsail (needed to be cut down perfect job Andrew Chapman at CHPS) and now PR25 main and jib no mods needed which will see me out. Put S80 kite on the F727 - what was thinking - nearly pulled the mast out of the boat clearing Longnose Pt in the Syd west harbour in 20kts noreaster coming back from Taylors Bay.............totally daft.............sold it pronto...........

Nothing wrong with ply decks as long as you maintain them.............keep them sealed at all fittings.................as you know google end grain balsa decks made totally cactus due to inappropriate sealing...............

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JonE said..
You know beauty really is in the eye of the beholder isn't it! I would love to jet wash it inside and out and buy some used etchells sails.

im such a hypocrite!

Actually just had a proper look. This boat it the poster child for "why you should never buy a boat with ply decks"

Apart from obvious rot traps and poorly maintained bits, the ply decks on my 28'er made it to 50 or 60 quite happily - and they are lighter and/or stiffer than 'glass. The framing that goes with ply also makes replacing the decks a very quick and easy operation, without all the fairing required in some other materials.

My solid 'glass boats are simple but heavy and bendy, the core ones are light and stiff but harder to fix, ply can rot but is light and easy to fix, cold moulding is great until it takes a hit, etc. Everything has positives and negatives.

My second yacht was a John Spencer "Adrian" in ply. Mighty little 24 ft sloops for Auckland Harbour and beyond.
Mine was a little bit hotted up with a masthead instead of fractional and slightly taller rig if I recall correctly, which was offset two lengths of angle iron bolted through the keelson which in turn carried a half inch steel plate with lead bottom (mine had extra for rig/sail increase).

Man she used to love getting over on her chines and I reckon I had her doing better than hull speed a few times.

Original engine believe it or not was a Ford Anglia flat head motor. I replaced it with a Kawasaki pull start, air cooled light industrial with a 2:1 reduction gear behind it.

Plywood boats are great. They beat the hell out of steel or concrete boats.

The last plywwod built Diamonds. Ton of fun for $3,000.

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/diamond-y-w/300760

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woko said..
and most of them don't go, just swing on the moorings clogging up system. Each mooring field should have an annual big day out & those left on the moorings should be confiscated !

Unfortunately if the MSB did a check and got rid of boats that never leave moorings we would lose a lot of new boats! The most used boats are those early IOR yachts that people actually own.

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cammd said..

JonE said..
What is needed is someone to do a deal with the insurers where these boats can be disposed of and parted out to enable low-cost spares like the car market.
Winches, anchors, masts. Pulpits, booms... All the stuff that is costing far more than the labour cost of cleaning it up and servicing it.

even some of the electronics.

I don't see how letting your boat run down is an Insurer's problem. We don't need our premiums to go up to pay for neglected boats.
I don't know the answer to neglected boats but something that financially makes it cheaper to dispose than keep to encourage owners to get rid of them off the water.
Maybe proof of lift out and antifoul every couple of years or rigging certificate to show its in date. Something that responsible owners do anyway so it's not added cost to maintained boats.

Perhaps a scheme where owners can dispose of them free by giving them away to some sort of marine wrecker who can part them out and turn a profit.

It's not compulsory to have comprehensive insurance.

The rules for holding a mooring cover the regular inspection bit and your vessel has to meet the boating officers idea of what constitutes a tidy vessel. This also means the colour scheme has to be suitable for the location.

There are cruising yachts all around the world doing ocean crossings with rigging 25 years old.

100 grand mahogany hull on a good trailer for 2 grand. It's been for sale for a while just looking for a varnishing enthusiast!

www.ebay.com.au/itm/405247691146?itmmeta=01J8XAK28QBK6BZDHDTXZQV7ZJ&hash=item5e5aa5098a:g:zGEAAOSwmT9m6SP5&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4IGlUAWZBx1gbu%2FRwYCIK9ybN7WcWPQDVTuYM65uRCoiH3FXRb%2BmzZnbuSMVYzoZ0aZcTUGaw%2BbpBLnt7cI14GjVqEJih3g9ewdoVe7ZGr6v8K1KC1fOVLy5zqLiyN9MBlEXSqDowKmQy1HeCCWdXAEaQg4ZHShqNkFtO9JfgeuwtPHzoJG3ZYe8ltYphBej%2B%2BhiaS0wxgJfZROk0ZSC53JMy6T8FQlIZkV0F6lRLNdzHPiK4xhVbFn%2FbnsLKtCdwfBiWR5QhAEZtiESG7yx9mLFbrxZvMck8MKp2Y2Ur5gn%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7SkzKrHZA

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Ramona said..
100 grand mahogany hull on a good trailer for 2 grand. It's been for sale for a while just looking for a varnishing enthusiast!

www.ebay.com.au/itm/405247691146?itmmeta=01J8XAK28QBK6BZDHDTXZQV7ZJ&hash=item5e5aa5098a:g:zGEAAOSwmT9m6SP5&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA4IGlUAWZBx1gbu%2FRwYCIK9ybN7WcWPQDVTuYM65uRCoiH3FXRb%2BmzZnbuSMVYzoZ0aZcTUGaw%2BbpBLnt7cI14GjVqEJih3g9ewdoVe7ZGr6v8K1KC1fOVLy5zqLiyN9MBlEXSqDowKmQy1HeCCWdXAEaQg4ZHShqNkFtO9JfgeuwtPHzoJG3ZYe8ltYphBej%2B%2BhiaS0wxgJfZROk0ZSC53JMy6T8FQlIZkV0F6lRLNdzHPiK4xhVbFn%2FbnsLKtCdwfBiWR5QhAEZtiESG7yx9mLFbrxZvMck8MKp2Y2Ur5gn%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7SkzKrHZA

That is an interesting boat. Stunningly high maintenance but what a head turner she'd be. It'd be like the nautical equivalent of being married to Gwyneth Paltrow. Everyone would be jealous except the small number of people who actually understood what was involved in keeping her afloat!

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Ramona said..

cammd said..

JonE said..
What is needed is someone to do a deal with the insurers where these boats can be disposed of and parted out to enable low-cost spares like the car market.
Winches, anchors, masts. Pulpits, booms... All the stuff that is costing far more than the labour cost of cleaning it up and servicing it.

even some of the electronics.

I don't see how letting your boat run down is an Insurer's problem. We don't need our premiums to go up to pay for neglected boats.
I don't know the answer to neglected boats but something that financially makes it cheaper to dispose than keep to encourage owners to get rid of them off the water.
Maybe proof of lift out and antifoul every couple of years or rigging certificate to show its in date. Something that responsible owners do anyway so it's not added cost to maintained boats.

Perhaps a scheme where owners can dispose of them free by giving them away to some sort of marine wrecker who can part them out and turn a profit.

It's not compulsory to have comprehensive insurance.

The rules for holding a mooring cover the regular inspection bit and your vessel has to meet the boating officers idea of what constitutes a tidy vessel. This also means the colour scheme has to be suitable for the location.

There are cruising yachts all around the world doing ocean crossings with rigging 25 years old.

I cant see the point these days for changing rigging on regular schedule of maintenance for insurance.

A basic rigging inspection should be sufficient. There is no major evidence that suggest that flexible rigging wire fails due to fatigue without warning. Likewise most rigging and mast fittings are engineered for cycling loads and fatigue. Most yachts are not rigged with rod or dyneema that might fail without proper or poor maintenance or without warning. So why the unnecessary cost for mandatory rigging renewal. Suspension bridges and massive broadcast guyed masts don't require this and only require a basic survey because they were designed properly.

I also have not come across any engineering data that suggests rigging failures through wear and tear are frequent? To me insurers are gold plating their returns and risk with such onus demands that serves no useful purpose. The other point is that rig loss from knockdown or rollover will destroy the mast long before the rigging components will fail from fatigue.

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p3p4p5 said..

Ramona said..

I cant see the point these days for changing rigging on regular schedule of maintenance for insurance.

A basic rigging inspection should be sufficient. There is no major evidence that suggest that flexible rigging wire fails due to fatigue without warning. Likewise most rigging and mast fittings are engineered for cycling loads and fatigue. Most yachts are not rigged with rod or dyneema that might fail without proper or poor maintenance or without warning. So why the unnecessary cost for mandatory rigging renewal. Suspension bridges and massive broadcast guyed masts don't require this and only require a basic survey because they were designed properly.

I also have not come across any engineering data that suggests rigging failures through wear and tear are frequent? To me insurers are gold plating their returns and risk with such onus demands that serves no useful purpose. The other point is that rig loss from knockdown or rollover will destroy the mast long before the rigging components will fail from fatigue.

It's not mandatory. Insurance companies require it based on advice from riggers!!! It used to be 15 years, now 10.

= abandoned boats with no insurance - brilliant example of unintended consequences/not thinking it through !

Another Cole 43. This one has been out of service for 14 years but does not look like the mess the other one is. Would need to see recent photos and more of them to make any sort of assessment though. Listed at $15k but I am sure they would cop less.

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/cole-43/315050

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cisco said..
Another Cole 43. This one has been out of service for 14 years but does not look like the mess the other one is. Would need to see recent photos and more of them to make any sort of assessment though. Listed at $15k but I am sure they would cop less.

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/cole-43/315050

That's an excellent buy.

Compass 33 -
yachthub.com/list/ed.html?de=317461
alot of boat for $,but runners ?

Compass 33 -
yachthub.com/list/ed.html?de=317461
alot of boat for $,but runners ?

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Planter said..
Compass 33 -
yachthub.com/list/ed.html?de=317461
alot of boat for $,but runners ?

Was very keen on that boat four years ago as it was in really nice condition. The guy sold it to someone who rang a couple of days before me but hadn't inspected yet and then strangely repurchased it back off him within a couple of months.

I think the hull is virtually identical to a Farr 1104 but with a closed transom and different deck. Both were built by Compass yachts. Obviously it carries a bit more weight than the Farr 1104 with the aft cabin and all.

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julesmoto said..

Planter said..
Compass 33 -
yachthub.com/list/ed.html?de=317461
alot of boat for $,but runners ?

Was very keen on that boat four years ago as it was in really nice condition. The guy sold it to someone who rang a couple of days before me but hadn't inspected yet and then strangely repurchased it back off him within a couple of months.

I think the hull is virtually identical to a Farr 1104 but with a closed transom and different deck. Both were built by Compass yachts. Obviously it carries a bit more weight than the Farr 1104 with the aft cabin and all.

Yes, basically an 1104 with a meter chopped of the stern and an aft cabin. Large volume for their era, and sail well, generally a little faster than a Mottle 33, more room below too. Dad has one, and I spent a few years racing it - he only came out once and decided racing was too nerve wracking;) , actually took the runners off, and never had any worries, despite being a stiff boat - we'd carry full sail in 25+ knots, heaps of backstay for mast bend, and traveler down, she'd truck upwind.

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julesmoto said..

Planter said..
Compass 33 -
yachthub.com/list/ed.html?de=317461
alot of boat for $,but runners ?

Was very keen on that boat four years ago as it was in really nice condition. The guy sold it to someone who rang a couple of days before me but hadn't inspected yet and then strangely repurchased it back off him within a couple of months.

I think the hull is virtually identical to a Farr 1104 but with a closed transom and different deck. Both were built by Compass yachts. Obviously it carries a bit more weight than the Farr 1104 with the aft cabin and all.

This boat is owned by a long time friend of mine, also ex navy. The boat was sold not long after you looked at it. The mooring is close to the shore in front of several flash mansions with full water views. The first weekend the new owner and a handful of his friends held a raucous party all weekend! The pensioners were severely pissed off and called the heat. To pacify the locals my mate bought it straight back. I think it was probably out of his hands for a week or so. I gave my mate and the local sailmaker a hand to install the new furler a few months back. She sails well and is regularly used. It has runners but I have never seen them used.