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remery said..
Everest is the highest mountain above sea level at 8,849 m. So we should be able to see it from anywhere on a flat Earth. Why then does it appear lower than the mountain the closer mountain?

It took me 10 or 15 seconds for the penny to drop.

Are you implying that Everest is lower than the mountain in front of it due to their claimed curvature of the earth?

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Pcdefender said..

remery said..
Everest is the highest mountain above sea level at 8,849 m. So we should be able to see it from anywhere on a flat Earth. Why then does it appear lower than the mountain the closer mountain?

It took me 10 or 15 seconds for the penny to drop.

Are you implying that Everest is lower than the mountain in front of it due to their claimed curvature of the earth?

Yes, I am sure he is.

So why is that? Is Everest lower than the mountain "in-front" or is there something else going on?

Are you serious?

I understood its their psychology of trust that entraps them in their ball earth religion but i had no idea intelligence had anything to do with it.

Thanks FN for clearing that up lol.

Depends on how tall the closer mountain is and how tall it is, obviously.

It's the details that trip people up.

Like how can a mountain cast a shadow on clouds that are higher than it?

Observation as in life's observation - water in a contained environment at the surface is always level or horizontal.

The religion / indoctrination i received from my church i mean tv - water curves

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Pcdefender said..
Are you serious?

I understood its their psychology of trust that entraps them in their ball earth religion but i had no idea intelligence had anything to do with it.

Thanks FN for clearing that up lol.

You have a problem with that concept. LoL.

Yes, I think the suggestion is that intelligence has something to do with it

L oh FN L.

Maybe the turtles were all in a banking turn to the right, which would tilt the plane of observation away from the POV making Everest appear shorter. To be clear, I mean the turtles' RHS, not the observers, cos, like, that would obvi be wrong otherwise.
But now I think about it, possibly two of the elephants on top of the turtles were kneeling, cos this would have the same effect. Probably still the elephants' RHS tho.

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Pcdefender said..
Observation as in life's observation - water in a contained environment at the surface is always level or horizontal.

The religion / indoctrination i received from my church i mean tv - water curves

So, you're just thinking too small?

Oh wait, water curves in a glass or tank, that whole meniscus thing

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Pcdefender said..

remery said..
Everest is the highest mountain above sea level at 8,849 m. So we should be able to see it from anywhere on a flat Earth. Why then does it appear lower than the mountain the closer mountain?

It took me 10 or 15 seconds for the penny to drop.

Are you implying that Everest is lower than the mountain in front of it due to their claimed curvature of the earth?

My bad, I had to go out and clicked send withour re-reading. The comment should have read, "Everest is the highest mountain above sea level at 8,849 m. So we should be able to see it from anywhere on a flat Earth. Why then does it appear lower than the closer mountain?[edit; the mountain in the foreground is about 45 km closer]

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Pcdefender said..
Observation as in life's observation - water in a contained environment at the surface is always level or horizontal.

The religion / indoctrination i received from my church i mean tv - water curves

So I was sitting at the Coodanup foreshore the other day. The newly installed tables look to be level. I observed the rain water on top of the tables seemed to indicate that the table top was level. I also observed that when I lined up the table with Point Grey across to Boombas (approx 8km distant), I couldn't get the horizon to line up with the table top. The table ends were always too high. I observed that either the sheen of rain water on top of the table doesn't 'find its level' or the water in the estuary 8kms away, isn't finding its level. I am confused as to why this happening when "water in a contained environment at the surface is always level or horizontal." Can you please explain my observations of my local environment?

^so if you confirm that the table is level with a spirit level, and then look along the surface of the table it should line up with a table on the foreshore at Boombs right? Hove er simple maths tells me it will line up with a point about 0.64 metres higher.

I have observed that the rain water pools in an even depth sheen along the top of the aluminium table top. I could get a spirit level, but water will always find its level. If the table is not flat I will observe water missing from the higher end. Yes?
Weirdly you can't see the foreshore over the Boombas side. Dunno why that is. Maybe a Mirage Meniscus thingo???

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fangman said..

Pcdefender said..
Observation as in life's observation - water in a contained environment at the surface is always level or horizontal.

The religion / indoctrination i received from my church i mean tv - water curves

So I was sitting at the Coodanup foreshore the other day. The newly installed tables look to be level. I observed the rain water on top of the tables seemed to indicate that the table top was level. I also observed that when I lined up the table with Point Grey across to Boombas (approx 8km distant), I couldn't get the horizon to line up with the table top. The table ends were always too high. I observed that either the sheen of rain water on top of the table doesn't 'find its level' or the water in the estuary 8kms away, isn't finding its level. I am confused as to why this happening when "water in a contained environment at the surface is always level or horizontal." Can you please explain my observations of my local environment?

You have used a practical observation to reinforce your understanding of the shape of the earth? Nah, that stuff never works. All you need is a youtube video by Amber something or other and you are toast.

Clearly the table was a fake with special nano particles meant to get water sticking to it even though it was a concave table. It is designed to fool people just like you to think the earth is curved.

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FormulaNova said..

fangman said..

Pcdefender said..
Observation as in life's observation - water in a contained environment at the surface is always level or horizontal.

The religion / indoctrination i received from my church i mean tv - water curves

So I was sitting at the Coodanup foreshore the other day. The newly installed tables look to be level. I observed the rain water on top of the tables seemed to indicate that the table top was level. I also observed that when I lined up the table with Point Grey across to Boombas (approx 8km distant), I couldn't get the horizon to line up with the table top. The table ends were always too high. I observed that either the sheen of rain water on top of the table doesn't 'find its level' or the water in the estuary 8kms away, isn't finding its level. I am confused as to why this happening when "water in a contained environment at the surface is always level or horizontal." Can you please explain my observations of my local environment?

You have used a practical observation to reinforce your understanding of the shape of the earth? Nah, that stuff never works. All you need is a youtube video by Amber something or other and you are toast.

Clearly the table was a fake with special nano particles meant to get water sticking to it even though it was a concave table. It is designed to fool people just like you to think the earth is curved.

Oh wow, nano particles! I just thought they were guano particles and the theories were all just a bit sh!tty.

Here's a cheap experiment for people willing to learn.

?si=a8qPZnaIvuSD6cdX

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fangman said..

Pcdefender said..
Observation as in life's observation - water in a contained environment at the surface is always level or horizontal.

The religion / indoctrination i received from my church i mean tv - water curves

So I was sitting at the Coodanup foreshore the other day. The newly installed tables look to be level. I observed the rain water on top of the tables seemed to indicate that the table top was level. I also observed that when I lined up the table with Point Grey across to Boombas (approx 8km distant), I couldn't get the horizon to line up with the table top. The table ends were always too high. I observed that either the sheen of rain water on top of the table doesn't 'find its level' or the water in the estuary 8kms away, isn't finding its level. I am confused as to why this happening when "water in a contained environment at the surface is always level or horizontal." Can you please explain my observations of my local environment?

I took my level down today and whacked it on the table. Fair go to the tradies, it was smack on the money. Not the I would trust a spirit level with all its meniscus stuff inside. After FN's revelation about guanoparticles I also took down my water bottle and poured it over the table top. Water still found its own level today, and it was the same across the length of the table. Another big ups for the tradies. I checked the table against the horizon at Boombas to Point Grey just over 8 km's away again. And again it seems the table top is the shape of a banana compared to the horizon. I am stumped. If water finds its own level, why have I got two different water levels - one straight(table) and one curved down at the ends(horizon)? What am I doing wrong here?

It's called the horizon cause its horizontal, check your measurements.

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fangman said..

I took my level down today and whacked it on the table. ... What am I doing wrong here?

What you are doing wrong is the same as me...

(Sadly, pigs are very intelligent animals... unlike Pcdefender)

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Pcdefender said..
It's called the horizon cause its horizontal, check your measurements.

Its called "having a brain"... check that you have one.

Are you guys saying the horizon is curved ?

Ball earthers believe water curves though were it actually a ball and you were out at sea you would not see curve as the horizon line would have to meet up.

What you would or should see is the line of the horizon all 360 degrees around you would be below you.

Imagine you are a tiny ant living on a soccer ball, the line of the horizon all around you would be below you.

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Pcdefender said..
Something that the average joe can demonstrate is a start.

I don't know if I qualify as an average Joe, but I think I did science to your standards. I think I did it with my table, water bottle, spirit level and own eyes. Twice. 'Check your measurements' is a flippant and unworthy reply. I did an experiment to your standards and got results that don't seem to fit with your world view. I reckon it's now up to you to show me where I went wrong by replicating my experiment and methodology. It's empirical and something the average Joe can demonstrate after all.

Fair enough but i did not know how you checked the horizon.

Put a straight edge across it and it will be completely horizontal no matter the distance.

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Pcdefender said..
Fair enough but i did not know how you checked the horizon.

Put a straight edge across it and it will be completely horizontal no matter the distance.

I thought I detailed my experiment reasonably clearly, but just in case of confusion, I used the edge of the table as my straight edge. Which I checked using my spirit level and water for straightness and levels. The tables are new extruded aluminium surface and straight as a die.
To reiterate, I did this science to your standards. You are obliged to show me empirically, ( as this is the currency of science you agreed upon all those pages ago), on where I went wrong.

Good to see you are not just taking their word for it.

I have done the experiment like twenty times and the horizon lined up with my straight edge.

Try it out again tomorrow.

Nope, you don't get to deflect. My methodology met the standards you required. It's thoroughly reproducible, and I believe I can do it 21 times and get the same result. Time for you to show me where I went wrong. I want an empirical demonstration the average Joe can understand. Try it out tomorrow.

I will try it out again and again.

They even admit the horizon does not curve from memory.

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Pcdefender said..
Ball earthers believe water curves though were it actually a ball and you were out at sea you would not see curve as the horizon line would have to meet up.

What you would or should see is the line of the horizon all 360 degrees around you would be below you.

Imagine you are a tiny ant living on a soccer ball, the line of the horizon all around you would be below you.

Imagine you are a man with a tiny ant brain living on a ball with a diameter of 12,472 km, the line of the horizon all around you would be below you

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Pcdefender said..
I will try it out again and again.

They even admit the horizon does not curve from memory.

You know that this 'try it out' actually means going into the physical world and comparing things?

Not just finding a youtube song about it? Not just sending another meme or two?

I think in this case it means finding a body of water where you can see it against the horizon, and then comparing it to a straight edge close to you.

Good luck. I think you need God on your side to even attempt it.

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Pcdefender said..
What you would or should see is the line of the horizon all 360 degrees around you would be below you.

Imagine you are a tiny ant living on a soccer ball, the line of the horizon all around you would be below you.

Yep, pretty good analogy.
Now the really interesting but would be to get a theodolite or similar survey tool.
Line it up on the horizon, set your scale to Zero.
Then rotate it in the vertical plane until it lines up with the opposite horizon. Flat or ball the total angle should be a bit over 180. (Or get a an accurate reference to vertical and the angle should be a bit over 90)

On a flat earth, the angles should be less, because you're on a flat plane. The angles would increase pretty linearly as you raised the elevation.

On a ball however, the angle would be greater to start with, and then increase very differently as you increase your elevation.


But I imagine the tricky part would be figuring out just what limits your vision to the horizon on a flat earth? Is it a consistent phenomenon that you can rely on to take these measurements?