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remery said..

FormulaNova said..

I was reading/listening to 'Hail Mary' on Audible. In it the spaceship accelerates at 1.5g for half of the trip and then decelerates at 1.5g for the other half.

Clearly, this is what the turtle is doing and all the other turtles around him/her are doing the same. Who would have thought God was a turtle? (The devil is a tortoise).

I have listened to that audio textbook and you are correct. The evidence is irrefutable, indefatigable an insurmountable (plus several other ables).

Now you are getting the hang of evidence!

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remery said..

Pcdefender said..
The evidence is irrefutable that if you stick your head out of the window of a train travelling at 100 km/h it will be nearly blown off.

Throw a ball up whilst you are hanging out the window of the train travelling at 100 km/h and the ball will not come down in the same place. It will inside the cabin of the train however.

Throw a ball across the aisle while a train is slowing down. It will not come down in the same place.This is one of many experiments that I did with my kids while they were growing up. It explains why they are not idiots like you.

Clearly the train was gotten to and was in on the whole thing

Impressive that you did practical experiments with your kids to show them the realities of the real world and how things work. I think this sort of thing is pretty important as it lets kids build up their knowledge and get an understanding of how and why things work the way they do.

"Unweaving the Rainbow: Science, Delusion and the Appetite for Wonder" - a book by Richard Dawkins.

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FormulaNova said..

Impressive that you did practical experiments with your kids to show them the realities of the real world and how things work. I think this sort of thing is pretty important as it lets kids build up their knowledge and get an understanding of how and why things work the way they do.

I did the golf/ping-pong ball drop with them. That really freaked them out.

So getting back to the psychology of delusional people. What about if Pcdefender conducted an actual experiment.

How about if he gets a trusted individual who lives in the north of the state, to photograph and tape measure the shadow of a 1 metre stick at exactly the same time as him in Perth. 12:00 lunchtime might be best, just has to be the same time. May as well allow the phone to add GPS coordinates to the exif data. Post the results here. Then apply the Erastothenes calculation and see what comes out.

phys.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Astronomy__Cosmology/Astronomy_for_Educators_(Barth)/05%3A_Measuring_and_Mapping_the_Sky/5.04%3A_Measuring_the_Earth_with_Eratosthenes

I think I might have mentioned on here before that he should call someone on the east coast of Aus and check the angle of the sun, or indeed when it is sunrise, and then compare to here in Perth.

The dumb argument that sometimes comes up is that the sun is not natural and is just a man-made object.
Proving once again 'you can't beat stupid'.

You could concoct all sorts of logical arguments but they will be resoundly beaten by dumb responses.

A plane travels in a horizontal path, it does not travel in a curved path lol.

Spirit levels and gyroscopes prove planes fly on a horizontal path if measured from the tail of the plane to the nose.

Horizontal as in a right angle to the vertical. Travelling at this same angle from the runway whatever the distance travelled the plane would increase in altitude unless the nose was constantly dipping to follow the curve of the earth.

Travelling around a sphere it would be travelling in a curved not horizontal path no matter what decrepit believes.

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FormulaNova said..
I think I might have mentioned on here before that he should call someone on the east coast of Aus and check the angle of the sun, or indeed when it is sunrise, and then compare to here in Perth.

The dumb argument that sometimes comes up is that the sun is not natural and is just a man-made object.
Proving once again 'you can't beat stupid'.

You could concoct all sorts of logical arguments but they will be resoundly beaten by dumb responses.

Obviously if the Earth was flat, the length of the shadows would be same. But wouldn't the Eratosthenes experiment work better if the locations were oriented north/south? Say, Mandura and Geraldton? I see sunset in Mandurah is 17:31 and Geraldton 17:43 today.

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Pcdefender said..
A plane travels in a horizontal path, it does not travel in a curved path lol.

Spirit levels and gyroscopes prove planes fly on a horizontal path if measured from the tail of the plane to the nose.

Horizontal as in a right angle to the vertical. Travelling at this same angle from the runway whatever the distance travelled the plane would increase in altitude unless the nose was constantly dipping to follow the curve of the earth.

Travelling around a sphere it would be travelling in a curved not horizontal path no matter what decrepit believes.

Lol

"Aircraft altitude is measured (inferred) by atmospheric pressure. The aircraft is usually flown at an altitude that maintains constant ambient pressure (by pilot or autopilot, as the case may be). Changes in local barometric pressure (provided by air traffic control) are used to recalibrate the aircraft altimeter. As long as the aircraft is flown at a constant ambient pressure (hence constant altitude), it will be following the earth's curvature (as the atmosphere is attached to the spherical earth and has same properties at same distance from the center, in an ideal case) as the altitude is measured from the surface, which is curved, and not a plane." - comment from aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/27603/do-pilots-adjust-the-aircrafts-flight-path-to-allow-for-the-curvature-of-the-ea

Who knew! There are hundreds of schools around the world doing the Erastothenes experiment. What a fantastic tool for teaching young people the importance of experimentation and critical thinking.

drive.google.com/file/d/1kPlbPq1VhT1YjGOqODOr1xL3zII_zx4u/view

eratos.world.free.fr/?page_id=6439#2023

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Pcdefender said..
A plane travels in a horizontal path, it does not travel in a curved path lol.

Pete,
This again is circular reasoning.
The earth is flat, therefore horizontal is straight.
The plane travels a horizontal course, therefore the earth is flat.

Don't you see the fallacy in this argument????

Let me get this absolutely clear - you believe horizontal is not straight but is or can be curved?

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Pcdefender said..
Let me get this absolutely clear -

... - you are an idiot.

Now, before you get all offended and go crying to the mods again, let me provide you with the Oxford Reference Dictionary definition of "idiot".

An obsolete term for a person with profound mental retardation; also an abusive term for a fool. idiocy n. Profound mental retardation. idiotic adj. [From French idiot an idiot, from Latin idiota an ignorant person, from Greek idiotes a private person, or one who has no professional knowledge]"

Surely you can't argue with the Oxford Reference Dictionary.

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remery said..

Pcdefender said..
Let me get this absolutely clear -

... - you are an idiot.

So by calling someone an idiot to the question i asked i take it you also believe like decrepit that horizontal can also mean curved lol.

From the centre of a sphere i think what decrepit is trying to say is a plane travelling across the country is travelling the same distance from the centre of the spherical earth all the way to its destination.

On a spherical model this is true but the plane still must be travelling in a curved downward path.

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Pcdefender said..>>> On a spherical model this is true but the plane still must be travelling in a curved downward path.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, on a spherical model it's flying horizontal! If it was traveling downward it would be horizontal.
Downward is getting closer to the earths center of gravity, level is staying the same distance from it.
Yes, if it's flying level, neither ascending or descending, it's traveling on a curved horizontal, path

There is no such thing as a curved horizontal.

Horizontal - look up the word.

FFS why is this still going

Pete if the shoe fits

Laurie must love this

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decrepit said..

Pcdefender said..>>> On a spherical model this is true but the plane still must be travelling in a curved downward path.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, on a spherical model it's flying horizontal! If it was traveling downward it would be horizontal.
Downward is getting closer to the earths center of gravity, level is staying the same distance from it.
Yes, if it's flying level, neither ascending or descending, it's traveling on a curved horizontal, path

In any case and i forgot to add this in my earlier response - a plane travelling in a curved horizontal path as you put it, the plane would still have to be constantly dipping its nose.

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Pcdefender said..>> a plane travelling in a curved horizontal path as you put it, the plane would still have to be constantly dipping its nose.

No it's traveling level, it's not going down.
Down is towards the earth. It doesn't do that until it's going to land.

Well we cannot be both correct.

The plane is not going down correct but if measured with a spirit level the nose MUST be lower than the tail to follow a curved path.

There is no way around this very obvious fact.

You're dead right, you're wrong!
Here's the definition of horizontal.

adjective
1.
parallel to the plane of the horizon; level; flat

Compare vertical (sense 1)

2.
of or relating to the horizon


3.
measured or contained in a plane parallel to that of the horizon

4.
applied uniformly or equally to all members of a group

If it's traveling horizontally it's going parallel to the horizon, if it's flying level, it's not going down. If it's not going down the nose doesn't dip.

Your "obvious fact" is neither obvious or a fact. It's just your faulty opinion.

This is how false information, superstition and old wives tales get spread.

It does nobody any good.

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hilly said..
FFS why is this still going

Because we all have to have the last word!

But I must admit it does get very tiresome

So how come then when you put a spirit level on the arm of a chair on a plane at cruising altitude it shows the plane from nose to tail is horizontal?

You wrote...

If it's traveling horizontally it's going parallel to the horizon, if it's flying level, it's not going down. If it's not going down the nose doesn't dip.

First of all travelling at the same distance 30 0000 feet above a spherical earth on a plane the plane is not travelling on a horizontal path but must be travelling in a curved path - evidenced by spirit levels.

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Pcdefender said..

remery said..

Pcdefender said..
Let me get this absolutely clear -

... - you are an idiot.

So by calling someone an idiot to the question i asked i take it you also believe like decrepit that horizontal can also mean curved lol.

From the centre of a sphere i think what decrepit is trying to say is a plane travelling across the country is travelling the same distance from the centre of the spherical earth all the way to its destination.

On a spherical model this is true but the plane still must be travelling in a curved downward path.

No no no. I'm not "calling" you an idiot, your posts have proven that you are an "actual" idiot. Not an idiot in the general abusive sense, but an actual idiot.

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Pcdefender said..
So how come then when you put a spirit level on the arm of a chair on a plane at cruising altitude it shows the plane from nose to tail is horizontal?

You wrote...

If it's traveling horizontally it's going parallel to the horizon, if it's flying level, it's not going down. If it's not going down the nose doesn't dip.

First of all travelling at the same distance 30 0000 feet above a spherical earth on a plane the plane is not travelling on a horizontal path but must be travelling in a curved path - evidenced by spirit levels.

Have you ever actually performed this experiment? No, because you are an ignorant idiot.

Now go away and conduct the Eratosthenes experiment I suggested above and get back to intelligent people with an apology.

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decrepit said..

Because we all have to have the last word!

But I must admit it does get very tiresome

You have to admit that I have contributed a new perspective.

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Pcdefender said..>>>First of all travelling at the same distance 30 0000 feet above a spherical earth on a plane the plane is not travelling on a horizontal path but must be travelling in a curved path - evidenced by spirit levels.

I think I give up here, there's just no getting through to you.
This is evidence of Remery's following post.

But I'll have one last go.
The spirit level indicates the plane is flying level, (but how do you know the chair arm, is parallel to the direction of flight?????)

But if it's at a steady 30.000 feet, then of course it's flying level and horizontal and following a curved path and the nose isn't dipping down because it's not descending. It's flying round the earth. It's not traveling up or down. If it sets out over the South pool and circumnavigates the Earth going over the South pole half way round, it will end up back at the North pole, and be flying level and horizontal all the way.
That's not a belief that's the way it is. No matter what your opinion is.

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decrepit said..

Pcdefender said..>>>First of all travelling at the same distance 30 0000 feet above a spherical earth on a plane the plane is not travelling on a horizontal path but must be travelling in a curved path - evidenced by spirit levels.

I think I give up here, there's just no getting through to you.
This is evidence of Remery's following post.

But I'll have one last go.
The spirit level indicates the plane is flying level, (but how do you know the chair arm, is parallel to the direction of flight?????)

But if it's at a steady 30.000 feet, then of course it's flying level and horizontal and following a curved path and the nose isn't dipping down because it's not descending. It's flying round the earth. It's not traveling up or down. If it sets out over the South pool and circumnavigates the Earth going over the South pole half way round, it will end up back at the North pole, and be flying level and horizontal all the way.
That's not a belief that's the way it is. No matter what your opinion is.

The cool thing about this conversation is that regardless of the logic and the science, there is no way PM33 has ever been on a plane with a spirit level. He has seen a video where someone has. But, as Decrepit says, what do you align the spirit level with anyway?

Imagine if the world really was that simple that you could do simple experiments and see obvious results?

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decrepit said..

Pcdefender said..>>>First of all travelling at the same distance 30 0000 feet above a spherical earth on a plane the plane is not travelling on a horizontal path but must be travelling in a curved path - evidenced by spirit levels.

I think I give up here, there's just no getting through to you.
This is evidence of Remery's following post.

But I'll have one last go.
The spirit level indicates the plane is flying level, (but how do you know the chair arm, is parallel to the direction of flight?????)

But if it's at a steady 30.000 feet, then of course it's flying level and horizontal and following a curved path and the nose isn't dipping down because it's not descending. It's flying round the earth. It's not traveling up or down. If it sets out over the South pool and circumnavigates the Earth going over the South pole half way round, it will end up back at the North pole, and be flying level and horizontal all the way.
That's not a belief that's the way it is. No matter what your opinion is.

Maybe a sarcastic meme will get though to him.