I can see you do not trust spirit levels or gyroscopes for that matter so i will leave you to enjoy your faith in heliocentrism lol.

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FormulaNova said..

The cool thing about this conversation is that regardless of the logic and the science, there is no way PM33 has ever been on a plane with a spirit level. He has seen a video where someone has. But, as Decrepit says, what do you align the spirit level with anyway?

Imagine if the world really was that simple that you could do simple experiments and see obvious results?

I was once on a plane with an idiot. The pilot refused to take off. The Federal Police came on board and dragged the idiot away. I'm arrived home too late for dinner. Maybe that's why I dislike idiots like Pcdefender.

Lol

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Pcdefender said..
I can see you do not trust spirit levels or gyroscopes for that matter so i will leave you to enjoy your faith in heliocentrism lol.

I use spirit levels a little, and rely on gyroscopes a lot.

Do you understand how a spirit level works? (Hint: requires gravity)

I do find it interesting that you can accept that a gyroscope can work and possibly even understand the principles involved. Yet don't believe that a planet can also demonstrate those same principles?

And as to your dig about "faith"? You can understand why other people may not have seen your comment as the eye opener or epiphany inducing mic drop you hoped it would be?

You provide absolutely zero evidence to back up why your claim supports flat earth and is impossible on globe earth.

And you forgot to follow on from your previous comments about earth rotation, surely aeroplanes would have to constantly turning east and flying much faster than is possible just to match/catch up to the speed of the planet spinning below them?

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remery said..

decrepit said..

Pcdefender said..>>>First of all travelling at the same distance 30 0000 feet above a spherical earth on a plane the plane is not travelling on a horizontal path but must be travelling in a curved path - evidenced by spirit levels.

I think I give up here, there's just no getting through to you.
This is evidence of Remery's following post.

But I'll have one last go.
The spirit level indicates the plane is flying level, (but how do you know the chair arm, is parallel to the direction of flight?????)

But if it's at a steady 30.000 feet, then of course it's flying level and horizontal and following a curved path and the nose isn't dipping down because it's not descending. It's flying round the earth. It's not traveling up or down. If it sets out over the South pool and circumnavigates the Earth going over the South pole half way round, it will end up back at the North pole, and be flying level and horizontal all the way.
That's not a belief that's the way it is. No matter what your opinion is.

Maybe a sarcastic meme will get though to him.

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Pcdefender said..
I can see you do not trust spirit levels or gyroscopes for that matter so i will leave you to enjoy your faith in heliocentrism lol.

Would you trust a sextant.

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Pcdefender said..
I can see you do not trust spirit levels or gyroscopes for that matter so i will leave you to enjoy your faith in heliocentrism lol.

I've seen too many spirit levels that were "out" you have to turn them around and check both ways, then use the average to get something level.
If I've adjusted the spirit level so it reads exactly the same in both direction, yes then I trust it.
What I don't trust, is placing the level on some random object on a plane and it accurately tells you anything about the planes attitude.

And again you insult me, by using the word "faith".

You talk about abusive people, but you are just as bad as anyone else.

I guess you remember I lived in a house on the waterfront, weekly I would see freighters with only there very high gantries and cranes visible over the horizon. And no a high powered telescope did not bring any more of the ship into view.
On low swell days, it's not possible that much of the ship could be obscured by waves. And if there were waves that big, the ship would rise up and down on them, more and less of it coming into view.
You have no answer to my direct experience that makes any sense. This is not faith it's direct experience with my own eyes. I know the Worl is round!!!!

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D3 said..

Pcdefender said..
I can see you do not trust spirit levels or gyroscopes for that matter so i will leave you to enjoy your faith in heliocentrism lol.

I use spirit levels a little, and rely on gyroscopes a lot.

Do you understand how a spirit level works? (Hint: requires gravity)

I do find it interesting that you can accept that a gyroscope can work and possibly even understand the principles involved. Yet don't believe that a planet can also demonstrate those same principles?

And as to your dig about "faith"? You can understand why other people may not have seen your comment as the eye opener or epiphany inducing mic drop you hoped it would be?

You provide absolutely zero evidence to back up why your claim supports flat earth and is impossible on globe earth.

And you forgot to follow on from your previous comments about earth rotation, surely aeroplanes would have to constantly turning east and flying much faster than is possible just to match/catch up to the speed of the planet spinning below them?

When hand-held GPSs first came out I was using one to track my position on a domestic flight. The hostie got a bit worried it was a phone or something so she took it up to the pilot. She came back and said, "The Captain wants to see you." It was the good old days when the public might get invited to the cockpit. The captain smiled and said, "This thing is spot on!" He let me have a look around, I don't recall seeing a spirit level anywhere. Neither did I see one a couple of years back when I had a go on the flight simulator in the city.

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FormulaNova said..

Told ya it was a turtle.

A couple of years ago I visited the World Heritage listed Jantar Mantar in Jaipur, India. It was build in the early 18th century and there were many different sundials, some very accurate indeed. There was a Maharajar who was obsessed with building the most accurate sundial. They all relied on a spherical Earth. Maybe Pcdefender just needs to get out more.


"Maharaja Jai Singh was a reputed astronomer. Emperor Muhammad Shah commissioned him to rectify the astronomical tables and to validate the data available on the positions of the planets. Jai Singh then built Jantar Mantar in seven years. This edifice was restored in the year 1901 and was declared as a national monument in the year 1948. The fascinating structure Jantar Mantar is completely made up of marble and stone. There are in total fourteen geometric devices in this observatory. These devices are used for computing the time of the day, predicting eclipses, the position of constellations, and the heights of celestial bodies.

These geometric devices are bit complex to understand but they are mainly used to calculating the time is the major purpose. For instance, Samrat Yantra is a sundial, which can tell the time with an accuracy of only two-second difference from the local time of Jaipur. This Samrat Yantra is 27.4 meters in height and used to forecast the commencement of monsoon on Guru Purnima, even today. The observatories of Jantar Mantar have enthralled the astronomers, historians, artists and architects from all over the globe."
www.tourmyindia.com/heritage/jantar-mantar-jaipur.html

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decrepit said..
I've seen too many spirit levels that were "out" you have to turn them around and check both ways, then use the average to get something level.
If I've adjusted the spirit level so it reads exactly the same in both direction, yes then I trust it.
!

This problem annoys me to tears sometimes. I have some cheap levels and some decent ones that you would expect to be better, but some of them are just out of wack and as you describe, I have to swap it around just to check to make sure it is one of the good ones. Also as my eyesight gets worse its more difficult with some as they use different coloured fluids. I am sure the good ones were yellow/green when I was younger but now they seem to be clear and harder to make out.

None of them seem to be certified for flying aircraft 'level' though

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remery said..

FormulaNova said..

Told ya it was a turtle.

You must be addressing this to mr Milk who seems to have turtle/tortoise dyslexia.

Sagan:
www.facebook.com/share/r/eeNpXTzPbFdzziZ6/?mibextid=UalRPS

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japie said..
Sagan:
www.facebook.com/share/r/eeNpXTzPbFdzziZ6/?mibextid=UalRPS

"Brains and a zest for experimentation". Two missing ingredients in Pcdefender.

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remery said..
"Brains and a zest for experimentation". Two missing MAJOR ingredients in Pcdefender.

I don't know if more credit should go to everyone arguing against Pcdefender for their seemingly unstoppable zest for trying to convince the inconvincible, or to Pcdefender for single handedly fighting off so many different people without batting an eyelid as to any sense of reality, for 24 pages of this thread.

I'll give everyone 4.5 stars for endurance, and Pcedefender gets a full 5 stars for holding up his side of the argument fully solo.

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decrepit said..

remery said..
"Brains and a zest for experimentation". Two missing MAJOR ingredients in Pcdefender.

I see you have joined remery preferring to attack the message rather than the messenger.

You claim i insulted you by using the word faith then you have the gall to post the above.

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japie said..
Sagan:
www.facebook.com/share/r/eeNpXTzPbFdzziZ6/?mibextid=UalRPS

So you believe water has the ability to support itself remembering 70 plus percent of the earth is covered in water?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

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Carantoc said..
I don't know if more credit should go to everyone arguing against Pcdefender for their seemingly unstoppable zest for trying to convince the inconvincible, or to Pcdefender for single handedly fighting off so many different people without batting an eyelid as to any sense of reality, for 24 pages of this thread.

I'll give everyone 4.5 stars for endurance, and Pcedefender gets a full 5 stars for holding up his side of the argument fully solo.

I go with what my eyes and experience tell me.

Prefer not to regurgitate what the likes of Carl Sagan pushes.

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Pcdefender said..

I see you have joined remery preferring to attack the message rather than the messenger.

You claim i insulted you by using the word faith then you have the gall to post the above.

What are you crying about now? The Oxford Reference Dictionary has clearly defined you, the messenger, as an idiot.

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Pcdefender said..

I go with what my eyes and experience tell me.

Prefer not to regurgitate what the likes of Carl Sagan pushes.

"Sagan attended the University of Chicago earning two degrees in physics. He followed with a doctorate in astronomy in 1960 and taught at Harvard University until 1968, when he moved to Cornell University. Sagan became a teacher and director at Cornell in 1971. He helped many unmanned spacecraft to explore outer space."

And your intellectual achievements are?....

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Pcdefender said..

japie said..
Sagan:
www.facebook.com/share/r/eeNpXTzPbFdzziZ6/?mibextid=UalRPS

So you believe water has the ability to support itself remembering 70 plus percent of the earth is covered in water?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

That's not how this works. It is your claim that the world is flat. Your argument is based on the fact that it appears to be flat. If you can give me a lucid explanation as to what it is that obscures vision of the lower extremities of objects across water I will engage.

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remery said..
And your intellectual achievements are?....

He's been to Spudshed.

So you are putting ALL your eggs / personal investment in your belief that the oceans curvature obscures objects far in the distance yet i am pretty sure YOU observe no curvature when you look as far to the left and right of the horizon as far as you can see.

How is your hotel mate going?

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Carantoc said..
I don't know if more credit should go to everyone arguing against Pcdefender for their seemingly unstoppable zest for trying to convince the inconvincible, or to Pcdefender for single handedly fighting off so many different people without batting an eyelid as to any sense of reality, for 24 pages of this thread.

I'll give everyone 4.5 stars for endurance, and Pcedefender gets a full 5 stars for holding up his side of the argument fully solo.

Does he though?

He's gone full ostrich

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Pcdefender said..
So you are putting ALL your eggs / personal investment in your belief that the oceans curvature obscures objects far in the distance yet i am pretty sure YOU observe no curvature when you look as far to the left and right of the horizon as you can see.

How is your hotel mate going?

He is fine. Still cannot see Vatulele from the beach. Becomes easily visible from 20 meters up the hill.

The mountains of New Caledonia were visible two days out whilst sailing there. Couldn't see the shore, nor the actual size of it, until close. And do you know what? It didn't surprise me one iota!

But there's no visible curve evident when you look as far left and right of the horizon.........

Keep believing Sagan and do not pass go

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japie said..

Pcdefender said..
So you are putting ALL your eggs / personal investment in your belief that the oceans curvature obscures objects far in the distance yet i am pretty sure YOU observe no curvature when you look as far to the left and right of the horizon as you can see.

How is your hotel mate going?

He is fine. Still cannot see Vatulele from the beach. Becomes easily visible from 20 meters up the hill.

The mountains of New Caledonia were visible two days out whilst sailing there. Couldn't see the shore, nor the actual size of it, until close. And do you know what? It didn't surprise me one iota!

Weren't ancient mariners able to identify some islands by the clouds hovering over them? With a flat earth, surely you would see ALL the clouds from here to the end of the earth, ALL the time. Not just when they are close enough to where you were.

Wrong.....perspective and convergence.

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Pcdefender said..
So you are putting ALL your eggs / personal investment in your belief that the oceans curvature obscures objects far in the distance yet i am pretty sure YOU observe no curvature when you look as far to the left and right of the horizon as far as you can see.

How is your hotel mate going?

It's not belief, it's understanding.