The Two State Solution

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Created by

cammd > 9 months ago, 11 Apr 2024

myscreenname

2296 posts

15 Apr 2024 7:46pm

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Carantoc said..

We could send FormulaNova over there to be the Viceroy, to rule them all with absolute power.

Send him away for a 20 year Isralestine Viceroy assignment and do all of us a favour.

Why stop with FN? Send the entire Seabreeze community there on boats. I'd love to be there and watch FN in a white gown give them their compulsory, government approved COVID shots on arrival.

FormulaNova

15090 posts

15 Apr 2024 9:59pm

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myscreenname said..

FormulaNova said..

myscreenname said..

FormulaNova said..

I think you are right. Those numbers appear to be bogus. I guess the PR people from Hamas did not think it through.

Unsurprisingly I find it easy to accept that a terrorist group that attacked Israelis is now faking the numbers to make it appear that they are the victims.

I don't know either, I guess there are lots still under rubble and a lack of official body counters left who are prepared to risk counting.

Roughly, what do you think the numbers are?

What is the number of people slaughtered by the IDF that would make you feel warm and fuzzy six months on?

By rescuing 3 hostages, mistakingly killing 3 others do you think the IDF have been justified in murdering 13,000 children?

What is the answer? How do stop Hamas from doing this again if you just sit back and say 'nah, it's okay, you can kidnap and kill our children'?

I think in the past Israel have tolerated terrorists hiding within the Palestinians. How much of that do you take before you fight back? If you don't what is the answer?

LOLS

I'm not falling for that old chestnut: Evadeing answering a bunch of difficult questions by asking me to answer your own set of random and idiotic questions.

No, fair's fair. Youngbreezy posted an article suggesting that the numbers provided for the number of Palestinians killed is too simple, and thus likely to be made up. If you had read it, you would understand that the 13000 children killed number is most likely made up. By coming back to the 13000 children statement, suggests you didn't bother reading it.

Now, if you would argue that a group intent on painting Israel in a bad light, after they themselves starting the attacks, may provide misleading numbers to make themselves look better and Israel bad.

So, my questions still stand. If you think it is a genocide, how are you sure of the numbers to make it a genocide?

Then, what did you expect Israel to do when its own young people were kidnapped, raped, and murdered? Tell them it is fine and accept it?

I can understand why you would be against Israel killing so many people, but to ignore the suggestion that its not what the numbers really are is just pretending to understand the situation and sticking to the side you have already chosen.

Clearly this is a really difficult situation. To just say 'Israel should stop it' is just dumb and has no basis in reality.

FormulaNova

15090 posts

15 Apr 2024 10:05pm

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myscreenname said..

Why stop with FN? Send the entire Seabreeze community there on boats. I'd love to be there and watch FN in a white gown give them their compulsory, government approved COVID shots on arrival.

When will it all stop. The spitting in shoes, the pissing in orange juice....

You surely quote Crackandtalks posts just so that 'technical error' that stops me reading them is bypassed and I get to read of his infinite (infinitesimal?) wisdom? I will try and resolve the error and not read them anyway. It will be hard work, but I will manage to ignore his version of thinking.

Pcdefender

1607 posts

15 Apr 2024 10:38pm

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FormulaNova said..

I can understand why you would be against Israel killing so many people, but to ignore the suggestion that its not what the numbers really are is just pretending to understand the situation and sticking to the side you have already chosen.

Clearly this is a really difficult situation. To just say 'Israel should stop it' is just dumb and has no basis in reality.

Look at the videos available online of the destruction of Gaza City ffs.

Anyone who an ounce of commonsense can see the 30 K number of deaths is grossly underestimated.

A single 20 floor apartment complex can house over a thousand people alone i would think, especially with the poverty situation over there its likely you will have many people staying in each apartment.

Around half the population in the Gaza Strip are under 20 I've read.

myscreenname

2296 posts

16 Apr 2024 3:08am

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FormulaNova said..
No, fair's fair. Youngbreezy posted an article suggesting that the numbers provided for the number of Palestinians killed is too simple, and thus likely to be made up. If you had read it, you would understand that the 13000 children killed number is most likely made up. By coming back to the 13000 children statement, suggests you didn't bother reading it.

Now, if you would argue that a group intent on painting Israel in a bad light, after they themselves starting the attacks, may provide misleading numbers to make themselves look better and Israel bad.

So, my questions still stand. If you think it is a genocide, how are you sure of the numbers to make it a genocide?

Then, what did you expect Israel to do when its own young people were kidnapped, raped, and murdered? Tell them it is fine and accept it?

I can understand why you would be against Israel killing so many people, but to ignore the suggestion that its not what the numbers really are is just pretending to understand the situation and sticking to the side you have already chosen.

Clearly this is a really difficult situation. To just say 'Israel should stop it' is just dumb and has no basis in reality.

Hey there FormulaNumbers

As you are aware it has been widely reported that at least 30,000 people have been killed by the IDF including 13,000 children in Gaza. I have no reason to dispute these figures and stand by the widespread and growing belief that this is genocide and crime against humanity.

The numbers are backed up in an article recently published in Time Magazine, which examined this very question.

The article references the propaganda reported in Tablet (conservative online magazine focused on Jewish news and culture) and details two different studdies using different methodologies to collect the estimated numbers of dead Gazans

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza: time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

Below is an excerpt

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Actually, the numbers are likely conservative. The science is extremely clear.

In December, the medical journal The Lancet, published two critiques of the death surveillance process done by extremely experienced scholars at Johns Hopkins and The London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. Both concluded that the Gazan numbers were plausible and credible, albeit by somewhat different techniques and logic.

Now that you have some more science behind the numbers you disputed of the genocide taking place in Gaza and as fair's fair, my question to you still stands?

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FormulaNumber
What do you think the numbers are?

What is the number of people killed by the IDF that would make you feel warm and fuzzy?

By rescuing 3 hostages, mistakingly killing 3 others do you think the IDF have been justified in killing 13,000 children?

Israelies should be ashamed of what their government is doing and demand an immediate end to this insane genocide.

Never Again

cammd

QLD

4331 posts

16 Apr 2024 7:22am

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myscreenname said..

Never Again

Never again you say.

If Israel put down there arms an annihilation of the Jews is exactly what will happen again but don't believe me read the below promise from Hamas

Hamas member, Ghazi Hamad on October 24, 2023: "Israel is a country that has no place on our land [.] because it constitutes a security, military, and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nation." (October 24, 2023, LBC TV (Lebanon)). He also vowed to repeat the October 7 attacks "time and again until Israel is annihilated," and expressing a desire to "sacrifice martyrs" (referring to Gazan civilians) for Hamas' ideological aim of destroying Israel.

I posted it again because you conveniently ignored it last time.

btw the way did you read the bit about Hamas expressing a desire to "sacrifice martyrs" . Hamas brought this disaster upon Gaza on purpose, even when they openly state a desire to see their own people killed you just ignore it.

I think you want Israel gone, that's the only conclusion that can be drawn from demanding Israel cease defending themselves against an enemy that has vowed to destroy them.

myscreenname

2296 posts

16 Apr 2024 5:59am

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cammd said..
I think you want Israel gone, that's the only conclusion that can be drawn from demanding Israel cease defending themselves against an enemy that has vowed to destroy them.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_again

You can think what you like. Haters are going to hate.

I like Jewish people, I know far more of them and have more in common with them than Muslims.

Because I oppose the genocide in Gaza doesn't equate to batting for the other team.

As a self proclaimed pro-lifer, I find it quite odd that you can't understand that.

raynef2005

QLD

160 posts

16 Apr 2024 8:19am

We need to discuss the real problem.

The advent of the modern internet, forums, social media etc. has given a voice to everyday morons to argue with strangers on the internet all day about topics they don't understand properly which then unfortunately sometimes makes it into the news cycle.

One thing is clear these days. The amount of vitriol directed towards people who do not share the same beliefs as those on the left (who seem to be governing all conversations around ethics) is sickening.

The world is going to eat itself soon.

Carantoc

7194 posts

16 Apr 2024 6:19am

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FormulaNova said...
..... It will be hard work, but I will manage to ignore his version of thinking.

mmm.... somehow I doubt it will be hard for you, but anyways...

That's the perfect attitude for a supreme Viceroy.

You can ignore the thinking of the locals and impose your own moral crusade / jihad on them. That way you know with absolute certainty you are right and they are wrong.

cammd

QLD

4331 posts

16 Apr 2024 8:20am

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myscreenname said..

cammd said..
I think you want Israel gone, that's the only conclusion that can be drawn from demanding Israel cease defending themselves against an enemy that has vowed to destroy them.

Why do you insist Israelis stop defending themselves, Hamas have promised not to stop. Its that simple HAMAS WILL NOT STOP, that I understand. Hamas made that clear

therefore they must be stopped, in the meantime Hamas are willing to sacrifice as many Martyrs as possible but using them as shields. Why don't you understand that

myscreenname

2296 posts

16 Apr 2024 6:32am

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raynef2005 said..
We need to discuss the real problem.

The advent of the modern internet, forums, social media etc. has given a voice to everyday morons to argue with strangers on the internet all day about topics they don't understand properly which then unfortunately sometimes makes it into the news cycle.

One thing is clear these days. The amount of vitriol directed towards people who do not share the same beliefs as those on the left (who seem to be governing all conversations around ethics) is sickening.

The world is going to eat itself soon.

I found the last paragraph in the time article poignant, and on point to what you have posted. What you are saying is correct.

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There are certain building blocks of society that require agreement for us to work well collectively. Society is weaker and discourse less productive if we cannot agree on at least a few basic things. In the case of Gaza, acknowledging that there was an appalling and extremely deadly attack on October 7th, and that over 30,000 Gazans have died since, mostly women and children, seems like the most basic of cornerstones of reality on which to move toward constructive discussion and eventual resolution.

time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

psychojoe

2239 posts

16 Apr 2024 8:09am

There's a parallel of misunderstanding between this and the Ukraine situation. With only a handful of Ukrainians killed, people were calling it a war. With only 30,000 or so Gazans killed people are calling it a genocide. It's been 6 months already. Doesn't Israel have the capacity to annihilate Palestine?
Edit: if you want to end the conflict, I've got Covid. I can go over and spread it and everyone will die.

cammd

QLD

4331 posts

17 Apr 2024 7:05am

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myscreenname said..

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza: time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

The Science is Clear. Unborn babies are human beings, 200,000 per day are killed by abortions.

How can a self proclaimed pacifist support that Genocide. 200000 a day, everyday, including weekends and public holidays.

D3

1516 posts

17 Apr 2024 5:42am

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cammd said..

myscreenname said..

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza: time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

Citation needed for your claim of 73 million abortions

psychojoe

2239 posts

17 Apr 2024 5:50am

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D3 said..

Citation needed for your claim of 73 million abortions

As a global figure, it's perfectly realistic. Are you not so good at math?

Mr Milk

NSW

3120 posts

17 Apr 2024 9:13am

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cammd said..

myscreenname said..

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza: time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

To be "killed" they have to be able to survive without non natural support outside the womb. So they aren't.

cammd

QLD

4331 posts

17 Apr 2024 9:14am

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D3 said..

cammd said..

myscreenname said..

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza: time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

Citation needed for your claim of 73 million abortions

www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/abortion

cammd

QLD

4331 posts

17 Apr 2024 9:23am

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Mr Milk said..

cammd said..

myscreenname said..

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza: time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

To be "killed" they have to be able to survive without non natural support outside the womb. So they aren't.

BS, if you pulled a egg out of a nest would you be killing it, not by your logic, but you would be because you reached in and grabbed it out knowing it couldn't survive. Stop talking BS, when you reach in a grab an unborn baby out, your killing it.

D3

1516 posts

17 Apr 2024 7:34am

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cammd said..

D3 said..

cammd said..

myscreenname said..

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza: time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

Citation needed for your claim of 73 million abortions

www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/abortion

Thank you for the link.

Making abortion illegal does not stop abortion, it just forces people into unsafe abortions.

Your link states unsafe abortion is a leading cause of maternal deaths.

It also considers abortion essential healthcare.

cammd

QLD

4331 posts

17 Apr 2024 10:33am

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D3 said..

cammd said..

D3 said..

cammd said..

myscreenname said..

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza: time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

Citation needed for your claim of 73 million abortions

www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/abortion

No organisation gets everything right....or wrong

Mr Milk

NSW

3120 posts

17 Apr 2024 10:51am

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cammd said..

Mr Milk said..

cammd said..

myscreenname said..

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza: time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

To be "killed" they have to be able to survive without non natural support outside the womb. So they aren't.

No. I'd be grabbing a handy breakfast

D3

1516 posts

17 Apr 2024 9:30am

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cammd said..

D3 said..

cammd said..

D3 said..

cammd said..

myscreenname said..

The Science Is Clear. Over 30,000 People Have Died in Gaza: time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/

Citation needed for your claim of 73 million abortions

www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/abortion

No organisation gets everything right....or wrong

This one might be mostly wrong

www.icr.org/article/cosmology-research

japie

NSW

7145 posts

17 Apr 2024 3:36pm

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cammd said..

japie said..

cammd said..

japie said..
Report: Israeli doctor says detained Palestinians are undergoing 'routine' amputations for handcuff injuries

edition.cnn.com/2024/04/06/middleeast/doctor-israel-hospital-conditions-intl/index.htm

Never would have thought I would see you cite CNN as a reliable source. I guess it suits you this time.

theDoctor said..

the only people who believe anything israel says
also believe electric vehicles will save the planet
and the vaccine is safe and effective

Israel said Hamas attacked them on Oct 7th, you don't believe that happe.ned?
your probably alongside Japie in thinking the holocaust was a hoax, which btw is on the same conspiritard level as a flat earth

You are a funny little peanut. I quoted CNN after having read the article in Haaretz if only to demonstrate that even CNN had picked up on it.

The hoax comment demonstrates precisely why it is that you cannot be taken seriously. You just fabricate ****e without attempting any verification. Much like Israel.

Holocaust industry lies have been exposed frequently over the years. Lamp shades from human skin, soap etc..

Were they persecuted ? Yes, along with many other sectors of the population. Does it give them the right to behave as they please? Not in my book.

There are heaps of Jews speaking out against the depraved treatment of Palestinians. They are rarely if ever given a podium. I follow Finkelstein, Greenwald, Blumenthal, Mate and a number of others.

I delved more deeply into what happened on 7/10 than most. One of the first things I listened to was Bret Weinstein interviewing Efrat Fenigson, Jewish journalist and ex intelligence operative who spent a day a week during her conscription manning the border. The interview goes for nearly two hours. She goes to great pains to explain that at the time of the interview there was no logical explanation as to how Hamas achieved what they did without instant response from the Israeli military. An achievement which would have been impossible in her time in the military 20 years ago at a time when surveillance technology could only achieve a fraction that can be achieved today.

Answer me this one question.

Why is it that Jewish refugees from Russia were welcomed to Germany before the turn of the century, settling there without fear of persecution only to experience a rapid drop of the hat type reversal of sentiment in the 1930's?

Hint: It's got something to do with selling out their hosts in exchange for British support for a return to the promised land.

The hoax comment came from the Benjamin Friedman speech you posted in another thread, sorry couldn't listen to 2 hours of him but a quick google identified him as a holocaust denier, That's enough of a conspiritard theory to lose any credibility.

I haven't done the research you have, I haven't read Mein Kampf either but I have heard Hitler was already anti jewish long before 1930. You have other info, then spill it, don't just say "hint", otherwise you just formulating an argument based on "facts" you know that know one else has and are therefore unverifiable. I guess that ensures your correct in your own mind.

The idea that the Israeli Government allowed Oct 7th to happen or even worse were involved in it is pretty wild. If there was evidence of that I would expect to see some evidence not just hearsay from a journalist who was in the military 20 years ago. I think that is up there with FE theories as well.

So I am basically guessing you subscribe to the Hamas view that Zionism is trying to take over the world, Yes, No? Zionist's are the Globalist's you keep referring to?

Thats a serious amount of power that Wikepedia has! And Google for popping that up. So here is a copy of his introduction.to balance things up a tad because there is a serious level of disparity between being a holocaust denier and what he was known for.

If what he says is true then the whole world deserves to know the truth and it goes all the way toward explaining the radical rise of anti-Semitism in a country, Germany, where it was previously non existent and was in actual fact a haven for persecuted Jews from Russia

Zionists have played a massive part in global politics for a long time. They were especially active during the communist revolution in Russia and played a huge hand in the power structure. At the time the Russian Jewish population was somewhere around 4%. Zionists held roughly 30% of office. Bear in mind that this was at a time when the most heinous atrocities were perpetrated. I've read a plausible account that 26 million people were murdered. By famine and gun shot.

To really rub it in Zionist Bankers poured money into the revolution. Arguably making it possible. Oh and they set up the first revolutionary central bank. Funny that!

The Zionist Sayanim network around the world is massive. An estimated 2000 active members in London alone. Zionist banking power is supreme. Do they plan to rule the world?

I think that they are being used to achieve that purpose and would likely be rewarded with high office should that occur. I also think that they are being used in a big way. Like now.

And the funny thing is is that of all the Jews who protest against Zionism it's the Ultra Orthodox who are the most vocal.

It stinks like three day old fish. The whole bloody thing. And they're completely mad

raynef2005

QLD

160 posts

17 Apr 2024 3:47pm

For those who have a spare 5 hours...

Leaves little hope.

cammd

QLD

4331 posts

17 Apr 2024 4:17pm

All of the above may be true, I don't know, I bother to read what you post, in most cases I think its plausible and I don't trust the elites running the show.

However I do think its unlikely the Israeli government was involved in Oct 7, that is a step to far, there would need to be evidence before I could begin to believe that were the case.

Now I don't think the Israeli Government is virtuous or without fault but I do believe they have a right and an obligation to defend their country and citizens and I do think Israel has as much right as any other country to exist.

In the face of an enemy that has vowed never to stop until Israel is gone I think they have little choice but to keep going until the enemy/Hamas is destroyed. I don't believe its a genocide, its a horrible war for sure. The genocide slur is propaganda, 3 times as many people were killed in one night at Dresden or Tokyo or Hiroshima. The battle of the Somme killed 50000 in one day. Its not a genocide, the IDF have the capacity but they are not using it. My belief is the IDF have a hugely difficult job trying to eliminate terrorists hell bent on using the population as shield's. Hamas have openly said that is the case so its not even a point of dispute.

If Hamas are eliminated will their be peace, probably not. People have been fighting over that land from antiquity to now. Iran and its proxies will continue to provoke. All Israel can do is deal with the enemy at the gate.

D3

1516 posts

17 Apr 2024 2:26pm

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psychojoe said..

D3 said..

Citation needed for your claim of 73 million abortions

As a global figure, it's perfectly realistic. Are you not so good at math?

I'm not great at maths. I was just surprised at the number.

If global population is approx 8billion, 73 million is almost 1 percent (0.9).

According to the World Factbook, global population is growing approximately 1.7%.

Just surprised that abortion has such an impact on the global population.

psychojoe

2239 posts

17 Apr 2024 5:01pm

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D3 said..

psychojoe said..

D3 said..

Citation needed for your claim of 73 million abortions

As a global figure, it's perfectly realistic. Are you not so good at math?

Yeah, but not nearly as much impact as the Haber press. Without industrial farming, the famine would see numbers dwindle toward one billion.

FormulaNova

15090 posts

17 Apr 2024 5:17pm

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psychojoe said..

D3 said..

psychojoe said..

D3 said..

Citation needed for your claim of 73 million abortions

As a global figure, it's perfectly realistic. Are you not so good at math?

Yeah, but not nearly as much impact as the Haber press. Without industrial farming, the famine would see numbers dwindle toward one billion.

What is this Haber press thing?

Does abortion really have much impact on the population? If people accepted that they would have a baby every time they got pregnant, with the enforced 9 months or more off, would they keep going at it? I doubt it. Behaviors would change.

In times of old people could still try and avoid pregnancy, it just seems that now it is easier.

D3

1516 posts

17 Apr 2024 7:02pm

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FormulaNova said..

psychojoe said..

D3 said..

psychojoe said..

D3 said..

Citation needed for your claim of 73 million abortions

As a global figure, it's perfectly realistic. Are you not so good at math?

Yeah, but not nearly as much impact as the Haber press. Without industrial farming, the famine would see numbers dwindle toward one billion.

The keys to avoiding pregnancy are education and access to contraception.

It's no coincidence that high rates of unsafe abortions occur in areas where abortion is illegal or extremely difficult to access, which just also happen to be areas with very poor education stats and almost non existent access to contraceptives.

Women in those areas also tend to have cultural expectations to not avoid pregnancy, whether they wish to use old or new methods.

myscreenname

2296 posts

17 Apr 2024 7:37pm

A few experts were discussing abortion in the U.S. specifically the Roe vrs Wade saga on Radio National this arvo. It was pretty dull, but I believe there are some angry anglo males on Seabreeze that may find it worthwhile.

www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/rearvision/the-story-of-roe-wade/103575362

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