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kobo said..
Thanks JB, yep that's what I find with my surf foil and 7m cabrinha drifter kite , but I haven't tried one of those single skin foil kites, which apparently drift way better than any lei kite, but they can't drift faster than the wind , So when your downwind foiling speed matches the wind speed, you have nothing to hold the wing up either ,so you have to bear away to keep some airflow over the wing.
Cheers Kobo

Not sure I 100% get your reply. But yes, when you're going the same speed as the wind going dead down wind (bearing away) will not work. Apparent wind is always changing depending on your hull speed and direction vs the wind speed and direction.

To keep a wing flying there needs to be some form of pressure. The Wing-Surfer weighs only 2.2kg and doesn't take much to make it float effortlessly. For example, in 15kn of wind (just short of 28km/h) in good swell it is easy to catch a swell and go 28km/h. That's were this happens.

These three pics are at 3 second apart during a swell run.

1. The wing is slightly in front as the actual wind is holding dominance. i.e. I am riding a few km/h slower than the wind. So the wind is still effectively coming from behind me.


2. This is 3 seconds later when I am about to catch a swell (you can see it building behind me) and am obviously traveling at the speed of the wind because the Wing has gone limp. Here you have the choices to either round up to increase the wind pressure from behind/across, or go faster to increase the apparent wind pressure from in front.


3. This is 3 seconds after again. You can see from the trim on the board I am engaging on a swell and accelerating down the face. My board speed has exceeded that of the wind and the wing is now flying behind me. The wind is coming from near directly behind me yet there is more air flow coming from in front of me due to my speed.

The problem you have with all kites is when they get into scenario 2. you have zero control. and they can not fly in scenario 3.

Hope this helps a little.

It takes a lot of time to get comfy and fully understand what is going on, but you will get it and be totally comfortable rotating the wing to suit.

Seriously a lot of fun.

Ride safe,

JB

Alan Cadiz and his Star Fish trick -- this guy is already a master wing foiler!

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dejavu said..
Alan Cadiz and his Star Fish trick -- this guy is already a master wing foiler!

Great skills but the starfish oh dear

his upwind ability is amazing. Have to work on that

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hilly said..

dejavu said..
Alan Cadiz and his Star Fish trick -- this guy is already a master wing foiler!

Great skills but the starfish oh dear

his upwind ability is amazing. Have to work on that

The tacking from healside to toeside is a complete mystery to me. I have managed one successful toeside to healside tack.

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Windgenuity said..

kobo said..
Thanks JB, yep that's what I find with my surf foil and 7m cabrinha drifter kite , but I haven't tried one of those single skin foil kites, which apparently drift way better than any lei kite, but they can't drift faster than the wind , So when your downwind foiling speed matches the wind speed, you have nothing to hold the wing up either ,so you have to bear away to keep some airflow over the wing.
Cheers Kobo

Not sure I 100% get your reply. But yes, when you're going the same speed as the wind going dead down wind (bearing away) will not work. Apparent wind is always changing depending on your hull speed and direction vs the wind speed and direction.

To keep a wing flying there needs to be some form of pressure. The Wing-Surfer weighs only 2.2kg and doesn't take much to make it float effortlessly. For example, in 15kn of wind (just short of 28km/h) in good swell it is easy to catch a swell and go 28km/h. That's were this happens.

These three pics are at 3 second apart during a swell run.

1. The wing is slightly in front as the actual wind is holding dominance. i.e. I am riding a few km/h slower than the wind. So the wind is still effectively coming from behind me.


2. This is 3 seconds later when I am about to catch a swell (you can see it building behind me) and am obviously traveling at the speed of the wind because the Wing has gone limp. Here you have the choices to either round up to increase the wind pressure from behind/across, or go faster to increase the apparent wind pressure from in front.


3. This is 3 seconds after again. You can see from the trim on the board I am engaging on a swell and accelerating down the face. My board speed has exceeded that of the wind and the wing is now flying behind me. The wind is coming from near directly behind me yet there is more air flow coming from in front of me due to my speed.

The problem you have with all kites is when they get into scenario 2. you have zero control. and they can not fly in scenario 3.

Hope this helps a little.

It takes a lot of time to get comfy and fully understand what is going on, but you will get it and be totally comfortable rotating the wing to suit.

Seriously a lot of fun.

Ride safe,

JB

Thanks very much JB ! That is a perfect explanation and exactly what I wanted to know.
Now I am clear on how the wing behaves .Thanks for going to all that effort with the pictures.
I will have to go and buy a bigger board and a wing now if I want to DW the easiest way.
I prone mostly and Kite when it's light, and used to windsurf plenty, what would you suggest for an 82 kg
newbie to start winging on?
Cheers Kobo

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kobo said..suggest for an 82 kg newbie to start winging on?
Cheers Kobo

4m any brand.
Borrow a sup foil that is easy for your weight (6 8 to 7 6) use a couple of times to get the idea. Go out in 15+ knots much easier.
Get a small sup foil board that you just kneel on to get going. Enjoy!

Gong has made a "recap" 17mn video of its experience with Winging up to now:
The tropical setting is the French island of Guadeloupe, in the Caribbean.



Note the kneepads made with tape... knee starts :-)

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colas said..
Gong has made a "recap" 17mn video of its experience with Winging up to now:
The tropical setting is the French island of Guadeloupe, in the Caribbean.

Note the kneepads made with tape... knee starts :-)

Very nice and stunning views

Not quite winging but we're close cousins - stoked downwinding with our local SUP wingers

One of those days when the the seabreeze just never really came in.

Expecting 17-22kn we got excited and brought camera man na drone pilot Bellie along for a freestyle expression session. Unfortunately according to BOM we only managed 7-13kn through out the entire session. But it was still fun.

Here's a bit of the footage from what we could get together in the uber light conditions.



JB (Yellow Wing) was riding the Naish 110 CU and JET HA 1240. Indy (Red Wing) was riding the Thrust Surf XXL (2000).

It was pretty amazing to be able to play around in such light conditions.

Enjoy,

Ride safe,

JB

A video showing the 9m2 Gong wing (biggest on the market currently if I am not mistaken) with two riders of different sizes. Note that his 50kg 14yo son (not shown) also uses it.
A warning, though: flying in low winds requires some experience to pump the foil to take off, a beginner cannot expect to get a 9m2 and start flying in 8knts wind.

Go bigger wing or go home with a 4M wing and leave the 4M wing to the expert those

Not Wing foiling... but Wing rolling :-)

Wow! That's a beautiful spot for skating with a wing. I have gotten out 5 or 6 times in the last month, but sadly just in parking lots. Still, the wings are really fun on a skateboard even in less picturesque circumstances.

These videos really show the potential for wing foiling in really offshore conditions. I am not sure about windsurfing but those conditions look way too offshore to kite in and functionally ride waves. Its cool to see the way they can ride the waves with complete freedom and in the offshore conditions the wing trails behind them perfectly.

We get a fair few days in WA ( particularly the north west) with strong offshore or side offshore winds that are too sketchy to kite and annoying to sup or surf a wing could be epic in those conditions

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Youngbreezy said..
These videos really show the potential for wing foiling in really offshore conditions. I am not sure about windsurfing but those conditions look way too offshore to kite in and functionally ride waves. Its cool to see the way they can ride the waves with complete freedom and in the offshore conditions the wing trails behind them perfectly.

We get a fair few days in WA ( particularly the north west) with strong offshore or side offshore winds that are too sketchy to kite and annoying to sup or surf a wing could be epic in those conditions

Learning to kite, it was interesting to gradually figure out the angles that work and what doesn't. Some things seem like they should work great, but when you try, the logistics just don't connect. Will be the same with winging. My vision for using these is long downwinders in swells, but I've now read reports that this raises a logistical issue: going with the wind, there's nothing to hold the wing up other than arm muscles (tiring and awkward). Surfing waves in offshore seems to make sense, as you say, the wind will hold up the wing -- and also, you will be able to rip out quick. But, one problem I foresee: unless you get a wave back in quick, you better be able to hold your position or go upwind well, or you'll get blown past the surf zone. It is going to take a few years for this to shake down and get figured out, partially because everyone has to be get past the awkward beginner stage before they can start chasing functionality.

I am in awkward beginner stage. An immediate surprise challenge is attempting to stand on a small sup in 2' wind chop ... because you would never try that otherwise, if more than 5kts, I don't sup. Second challenge is wind strength: takes way more wind than I imagined (at least at beginner stage) relative to wing size. Looking forward to hitting it hard this spring, once dependable winds start again, then next surf season attempting to get into some waves.

The 1st vid looks like my offshore dream foil wind wing session the 2nd vid is I wonder what the faces looks like on those board riders when they see foilers winging the place up

***Warning - Very Long Video***

I was stoked to get out on the all new Wing-Surfer 6m over the weekend. After a few sessions getting used to it, I thought I'd whack on the chest mount and and film an entire session with commentary.

I am riding the Hover 110 CU with JET 1240 HA Front Foil and Kite 210 Rear/Stab on an Ultra-short Fuselage (55cm) and a 75cm Mast.

In all honesty it's probably pretty boring as the angle actually isn't all that good, but I do cover quite a few things while I am riding and talk through the following and more;
- Getting up on the Foil in ultra light conditions
- Jibing in light winds,
- Tacking on the foil.
- Basic Jumps
- Baring off
- Seaweed (could be a fun drinking game for the number of times I comment about the weed).

Hope you enjoy, listen in to what you want. Apologies for any swearing that made it through, but I tried to mute it



Here is some of the stats from Waterspeed App.






Enjoy,

Ride safe,

JB

Great vid JB.. and I can't wait to get my hands on a 6 mtr.

Love the new windows.. 23 kph in only 8-10 knots of wind.. Amazing.

What happened to 4m is big enough

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hilly said..
What happened to 4m is big enough

The 4m most definitely is big enough. As a 1 Wing quiver, it's unstoppable. As excited as I am about having more sizes, the simplicity of one wing for all was awesome - 8-40+kn. The Wing-Surfer MKii is far more rigid, and definitely a more captured comfortable wind range. The 6m will be a handful for most in 10-12kn.

more sizes let us tune in more on performance for a particular wind range. Just means we have 2 or 3 wings now in our quiver as opposed to one but we get more performance as a result.
try not to think of the Wing-Surfer MKi as being replaced, it's more like the "Sport" model and the MKii is the GT.
JB

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JB said..

hilly said..
What happened to 4m is big enough

The 4m most definitely is big enough. As a 1 Wing quiver, it's unstoppable. As excited as I am about having more sizes, the simplicity of one wing for all was awesome - 8-40+kn. The Wing-Surfer MKii is far more rigid, and definitely a more captured comfortable wind range. The 6m will be a handful for most in 10-12kn.

more sizes let us tune in more on performance for a particular wind range. Just means we have 2 or 3 wings now in our quiver as opposed to one but we get more performance as a result.
try not to think of the Wing-Surfer MKi as being replaced, it's more like the "Sport" model and the MKii is the GT.
JB

Sport model with no power and no resale value.
So all the people buying the MK2 are joining the self gratification team? As you posted about people who buy bigger wings in the Wasp v Naish post.

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Campbell said..

JB said..

hilly said..
What happened to 4m is big enough

The 4m most definitely is big enough. As a 1 Wing quiver, it's unstoppable. As excited as I am about having more sizes, the simplicity of one wing for all was awesome - 8-40+kn. The Wing-Surfer MKii is far more rigid, and definitely a more captured comfortable wind range. The 6m will be a handful for most in 10-12kn.

more sizes let us tune in more on performance for a particular wind range. Just means we have 2 or 3 wings now in our quiver as opposed to one but we get more performance as a result.
try not to think of the Wing-Surfer MKi as being replaced, it's more like the "Sport" model and the MKii is the GT.
JB

Sport model with no power and no resale value.
So all the people buying the MK2 are joining the self gratification team? As you posted about people who buy bigger wings in the Wasp v Naish post.

It is always interesting how people "read" posts. I have never bagged bigger wings. I have commented that the 4m Wind-Surfer is capable of getting you foiling in under 10kn. But like all things there is skills involved. Like wise, at the risk of turning people off the new big wings, simply buying a 6m or bigger wing is not going to guarantee you will instantly get up in lighter winds. The skills you learn using smaller gear and getting technique right are in-valuable. Bigger wings are just that, bigger, heavier and slower to pump. My reference to "instant gratification" is based on those who choose to use gear as an excuse for poor technique, not the gear itself. I know I can get up on a 5.3m or 4/4.6m Wing as early or possibly earlier than most people (even lighter ones) on a 6m and using a smaller foil too. But I have paid my dues and put in the hours learning.

Anyway, simply buying a MKii does not change anything. learning is leaning. And IMHO, riding smaller gear is always more beneficial when possible over larger gear when you have the skills.

As mentioned above. The WIng-Surfer Sport is still an amazing wing, one that I truely believe out performed most if not all on the market. I never rode along side anyone thinking man I am disadvantaged because of my gear.

Enjoy the ride, try, learn and practice,

Ride safe,

JB

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JB said..

Campbell said..

JB said..

hilly said..
What happened to 4m is big enough

The 4m most definitely is big enough. As a 1 Wing quiver, it's unstoppable. As excited as I am about having more sizes, the simplicity of one wing for all was awesome - 8-40+kn. The Wing-Surfer MKii is far more rigid, and definitely a more captured comfortable wind range. The 6m will be a handful for most in 10-12kn.

more sizes let us tune in more on performance for a particular wind range. Just means we have 2 or 3 wings now in our quiver as opposed to one but we get more performance as a result.
try not to think of the Wing-Surfer MKi as being replaced, it's more like the "Sport" model and the MKii is the GT.
JB

Sport model with no power and no resale value.
So all the people buying the MK2 are joining the self gratification team? As you posted about people who buy bigger wings in the Wasp v Naish post.

Anyway, simply buying a MKii does not change anything. learning is leaning. And IMHO, riding smaller gear is always more beneficial when possible over larger gear when you have the skills.

Totally agree .........

+1

Dave why are you selling your Naish 4m wing?

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Campbell said..
Dave why are you selling your Naish 4m wing?

On the plus there is more 2nd hand gear....but too expensive

Good for the second hand punters and bad for the beginners who paid full retail after listening to the dealers hype about their product.

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Campbell said..
Good for the second hand punters and bad for the beginners who paid full retail after listening to the dealers hype about their product.

Don't see the big deal,there is always new products coming to the market.

Winging being new,innovation,means new products will evolve bigger better

I personally support people who have the guts and initiative to own and run a business.With the Internet and eBay it takes courage to do it.

Also there are a few guys on this forum that own business and push their own product.Also other guys that are paid to promote certain products. It gives the punter a raft of information so as to make an informed choice as to what best suits them

But they also are free with their time to post videos ,give support.

Just be happy with what you own,learn on that,then trade,sell or keep and then buy the new gear.