+1

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eckas said..
Got my small-motion the other day. ....

To all the guys that got a motion please stop rubbing it in !!!!
Please wait until I get mine

Overkill, but I'm having fun
wetsuit arm offcuts (I hate the forearm pressure)

Nice! How you done a float test?

I have now!
it sunk slowly. I reckon 4-5mm neoprene and it might float.
I'll test again with another offcut..

added another band of neoprene about the same size - floated no worries

If you wanted it on the forearm a bottomless stubbie holder should do the trick

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elmo said..
If you wanted it on the forearm a bottomless stubbie holder should do the trick

Stretchy has arms like Popeye (almost) - he will need a Darwin Stubby holder

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elmo said..
If you wanted it on the forearm a bottomless stubbie holder should do the trick

Nah Alby, I'll have it as high on the upper arm as possible. You're right though, stubby holder would be optimal thickness

@stretchy, hope you got a chance to spray them weeds before the boss got home.
Good idea, I will make my own tomorrow.

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Stretchy said..

elmo said..
If you wanted it on the forearm a bottomless stubbie holder should do the trick

Nah Alby, I'll have it as high on the upper arm as possible. You're right though, stubby holder would be optimal thickness

But a tad small for the bicep

Wow! Have never heard of that bottomless stubbie. Does that mean it never runs out of beer?

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Stretchy said..

JulienLe said..
So you'd like to add a "surf leash" to it?

Not literally, but maybe a second line of protection. I'm thinking maybe just a clear plastic band that Velcro's over the top of the existing setup. Don't get me wrong Julien, I think you've done a top notch job with this GPS, including the attachment method. I'm a very, very happy customer

Just added a loop through which I pass my camel back chest strap lock.


It is upside down but you get the idea.

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Stretchy said..
Overkill, but I'm having fun
wetsuit arm offcuts (I hate the forearm pressure)

My wetsuit sleeve worked, but what I didn't like was having this wet object to store away. So Mk2: 3mm EVA. Doesn't stay wet, is grippier on the arm and it floats! Only drawback is it's not a complete loop, the ends overlap under the buckle

I've used my logger for 6 sessions. I wear it on my upper forearm, using the band provided with the unit. I feed the end of the band back through the friction clip as added security. The unit is very comfortable to wear.

I've been wearing mine like a wristwatch, up arm and next to my normal watch. Can't fall off, works great.

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Richiefish said..
I've been wearing mine like a wristwatch, up arm and next to my normal watch. Can't fall off, works great.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but that position, if on the wrist, is really not good. (Underhand/Overhand)

Slightly further up on your forearm is good if you can make it stay there.

Seems to work fine on the wrist. Same position as the GW 60 was. Problem with putting it further up the arm is it can then slip down and over your hand. On the wrist, the strap is set smaller than your hand so it can't slip off.

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Richiefish said..
Seems to work fine on the wrist. Same position as the GW 60 was.>>>

Seems to work is the operative word. The GW60 has problems with the over/under hand scenario, you can pick which tack a rider was on from the accuracy data, As soon as it goes underhand the accuracy drops off. And the GW60 was designed with this in mind. The antenna is on the strap, where it gets some sort of sky view in both situations. The motion has the antenna on the flat outer surface, so the antenna is pointing wherever your wrist is facing. If you never use underhand grip this is probably not too bad, but alpha accuracy will still suffer from arm movement in the gybe. But if you do use underhand grip, the antenna will be facing the water more than the sky, so there'll be big reflection issues, messing with the satellite signals. You'll probably still get some sort of result, but the accuracy will be way off.

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decrepit said..
Seems to work is the operative word. The GW60 has problems with the over/under hand scenario, you can pick which tack a rider was on from the accuracy data, As soon as it goes underhand the accuracy drops off. And the GW60 was designed with this in mind. The antenna is on the strap, where it gets some sort of sky view in both situations. The motion has the antenna on the flat outer surface, so the antenna is pointing wherever your wrist is facing. If you never use underhand grip this is probably not too bad, but alpha accuracy will still suffer from arm movement in the gybe. But if you do use underhand grip, the antenna will be facing the water more than the sky, so there'll be big reflection issues, messing with the satellite signals. You'll probably still get some sort of result, but the accuracy will be way off.

Exactly.

Also, the Motion Logger is deliberately designed only to use strong direct signals from the satellites for optimum accuracy. If worn in a compromised position or orientation, it could well reject all the weak and reflected signals, drop below the minimum number of satellites and not even give you a result, let alone an accurate result. I found this a number of times during testing. I'd be interested to see your data files to see how compromised they are. If worn in a good position and orentation is is by far the most accurate device I have tested so far.

First session today on motion mini

I placed unit inside back zipper on my buoyancy vest

Appears to have recorded ok

Download of recording was simple
I connected motion via wifi to mobile phone
Downloaded file to folder on phone and then uploaded straight to KA72

No apps or program required on phone

Doesn't get much simpler than this

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tonyk said..
First session today on motion mini

I placed unit inside back zipper on my buoyancy vest

Appears to have recorded ok

Download of recording was simple
I connected motion via wifi to mobile phone
Downloaded file to folder on phone and then uploaded straight to KA72

No apps or program required on phone

Doesn't get much simpler than this

Good to see.

Normally, I would advise against wearing the GPS in your vest, but I was able to have a close look at your track and I agree, it looks all good. So in this case, it must have still been getting a very good signal.

That was some 'round the island' tour you took! .

I hate reading about all this stuff about overhand underhand and changes in accuracy, etc.

Heck, if we have to take extraordinary measures to keep the antenna exposed to the sky with nothing in between (like an wrist or boom or sail or mast or even a torso) then the antenna sensitivity or chip sensitivity is not sufficient. That's what needs to be fixed.

If the hiking GPSers these days can keep a good lock on sats in deep woods or deep canyons (my newer Garmins do), then our on-water GPS watches should be hugely better at keeping a good lock through a wrist.

Granted, I am not interested in posting "official" speed data, but my GW-60 and Timex Ironman GPS do a fine job of recording my speeds and tracks even under my wrist. When I have plotted out speed and position data point by point, both watches have similar noise profiles. Good enough for what I need.

BTW, what I did discover many years ago is that the original Garmin Legend in an Aquapac bag did a good job of recording when strapped to my upper arm, but a terrible job when strapped to the mast at the boom head. It had the old original GPS chip, not the later SIRF chip that works fine in deep woods.

It's different goals. We had this discussion before. I can make you a Mini Motion that will have fine accuracy in all positions. I prefered to make a highly accurate version when the antenna is directed to the sky. It's how most users wear it anyway.

I re-read it and I'd like to clarify that if some devices can't have a fix in certain conditions, other devices might decide not to have a fix in certain conditions. Motion can work indoors. Is it useful? Hell no. Is it instead useful to throw away any period of poor conditions to make sure records are trustworthy? Yes. That's my choice.

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sailquik said..

tonyk said..
First session today on motion mini

I placed unit inside back zipper on my buoyancy vest

Appears to have recorded ok

Download of recording was simple
I connected motion via wifi to mobile phone
Downloaded file to folder on phone and then uploaded straight to KA72

No apps or program required on phone

Doesn't get much simpler than this

Good to see.

Normally, I would advise against wearing the GPS in your vest, but I was able to have a close look at your track and I agree, it looks all good. So in this case, it must have still been getting a very good signal.

That was some 'round the island' tour you took! .

Thanks for checking
Good to hear the data was ok
This device is a game changer for those who want to get into GPSTC but have a low budget

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segler said..
If the hiking GPSers these days can keep a good lock on sats in deep woods or deep canyons (my newer Garmins do), then our on-water GPS watches should be hugely better at keeping a good lock through a wrist.

In my experience this is not true. Whilst modern Garmins can log a track through forests and canyons they definitely do not keep a good lock on satellites. I have many GPS's 4 * Garmins (3 of which use Glonass and GPS), GT31's, GW60, Canmore and both types of Motion. I spend a fair amount of time in the Bush creating Orienteering maps. I take my Garmin Fenix 5 plus so I can see roughly where I am whilst I'm out there and a Motion so I can see accurately where I really was when I get home.

The Motion produces much better tracks in the bush than any other GPS device I have used.

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segler said..
>>>>> then the antenna sensitivity or chip sensitivity is not sufficient. That's what needs to be fixed.

That's not the point, no matter how good the antenna/chip is, if you're getting reflections off the water, the signal will be scrambled no matter how strong.

Did a comparison test this morning during an Orienteering event in forested bush. White line Motion, Red line Garmin Fenix. Both warn next to each other on the wrist. I was ducking and weaving through thick vegetation at times the Garmin gives up and fails to record a point, hence the long straight lines for several seconds. The Motion records every turn smoothly. It's a clear winner.
Also a fraction of the price!

Great demo TB, shows the difference between guessing and knowing where you're going.
I think somewhere I have a GW60 and logger comparison, I'll have a look for it.

Will be interested to see those tracks, Mike. Ironically the Garmin probably compares better for windsurfing where there is a clear view of the sky than where it its mainly used on trails and urban canyons etc.

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yoyo said..
Will be interested to see those tracks, Mike. >>>

Here's one from January,



So It's my home made logger on my head and the GW60 on my wrist, The blue line on the bottom of the accuracy field is my logger, the red line is the GW60. This is a starboard tack so the GW60 is in an underhand grip here. I'll try and find one on Port tack with the GW60 on the trailing hand
The logger is +/- 0.141kts ,and the GW60 is +/- 0,531kts
I expect my logger would have a similar accuracy to the mini motion