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JulienLe said..cable free charging is very inefficient

This isn't entirely accurate, or (to paraphrase Obi Wan) it depends on your point of view.

To be CE compliant, a wireless charger is required to be at least 87% efficient (ignoring losses in the wall-wart as they are experienced by USB too): batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_without_wires

I agree that figure is quite a bit worse than using wire - about 13% !

Solar-power penetration is reaching 30% of homes (in Australia... other countries vary... UK is using a lot of wind), and there are many places in the chain of power-delivery where inefficiency occurs (say the transformer on the power pole), so the loss of efficiency for wireless-power, isn't a big concern.

vs.

The case on a GoPro is reasonably well constructed, yet lots of them get flooded on a regular basis. So the effort to water-proof a USB plug, is pretty hard.


That said, I applaud your effort to build these - it isn't easy. If you think wireless power isn't suitable, then ok.

Hi Julien,
How will the lightMotion be different to the Motion?
I can work out the it wont have a screen, what other specifications are you working on?
The lightMotion will be able to BT to my Iphone (or other), will an app be required? and then I could process the data with eg KA72 and post to GPSTC? Is this about how it would/could work?
Will the lightMotion be more accurate than the Motion?
How big will its memory be?

Hello mathew, as I understand that page, 87% is only AC-DC efficiency ?

"AC adapters must meet a minimum efficiency of 85 percent; Energy Star Level V requires 87 percent (European CE uses CEC as a base). Adding the losses of the AC adapter to wireless charging brings the overall efficiency down further as the inductive transfer efficiency of inductive charging is only 75-80 percent."

I wouldn't expect better than 60% total efficiency on a device the size of Motion. The device would also be thicker. And to be more efficient, it would need to be wider/longer. I'm totally on board with the principle of it but realistically, it would come with a lot of downsides too. Also, the main goal for it would be easy access to competitions and for an organiser with 100 devices, it would mean >= 50 pads, a bigger electrical toll and slower charging rates.

The first Motion prototypes had capacitive buttons hidden inside the brick because I didn't have the budget for custom seals. Great waterproofing idea but terribly inconvenient. So I moved to the current solution. And exchanged these old devices with new ones; no one ever looked back.

Hello BSN101, most of Motion documentation would hold true for the light version. You would connect it by USB and upload/use the log directly from the USB disk. I expect no change in accuracy. If something really made a change, it would be backported to Motion too. Memory will be the same 8GB, battery the same 5.6Wh. At this point, I do not know if Bluetooth will be added. It's all talks until March.

If you can keep the price at $200 or less these are going to sell well. All going well, what sort of timeframe until one is available to buy?

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Stretchy said..
If you can keep the price at $200 or less these are going to sell well. All going well, what sort of timeframe until one is available to buy?

Work starts in March ish? Yep my hand is up

Yep, but when might they be ready for sale? End of year?

Right now, I'm focused on clearing the backlog on regular Motions.

When done, and production resumes to normal, I'll make 25-50 LightMotion (any other name welcome). Around April.
Once these are made, I'll mark a pause to receive feedback on them.
Then I'll most likely change a few things.
Then it will really start. Around June.
Customers of the very first one are guaranteed to receive the next edition if it improved substantially.

It's basically the same timeline and principle as Motion. With more experience and more stable suppliers, contracts, shipping and production I hope.

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BSN101 said..
The lightMotion will be able to BT to my Iphone

I suggest that it is probably not a good idea to use an expensive smartphone on the water at all.

First reason is that waterproof bags almost always eventually fail

Second reason: this happened yesterday in a very mild fall where the phone on my arm hit the mast. Fortunately, it was a $19 phone.

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JulienLe said..
Right now, I'm focused on clearing the backlog on regular Motions.

When done, and production resumes to normal, I'll make 25-50 LightMotion (any other name welcome). Around April.
Once these are made, I'll mark a pause to receive feedback on them.
Then I'll most likely change a few things.
Then it will really start. Around June.
Customers of the very first one are guaranteed to receive the next edition if it improved substantially.

It's basically the same timeline and principle as Motion. With more experience and more stable suppliers, contracts, shipping and production I hope.

Hi Juliene, are these still on the radar to be made? Cheers Dave

Hello ! I received all parts to do the first trials but I haven't found the time yet. I'll post something longer about it at the end of next week.

Hello, this is pushed back to mid-May. I have an interesting prototype but I really need to work on big accessory-related changes to regular Motion first. Sorry !

What put me off using the GPS is having to plug it using the USB to the computer.Because I'm lazy, I use my Garmin watch that upload via Bluetooth to my phone automatically instead of using my GT31 (this also stops me to buy the Motion as I know I will not plug it to my computer after a session).The Garmin is a lot less accurate but so much more convenient in my opinion.If you were able to make a light motion having the feature of uploading directly to the phone via Bluetooth, that would be the best of both world as the Motion GPS looks great.

Good, I wanted to have a chat about this. I feel like ditching Bluetooth. Not enough following, too many platforms to trial and support, too many potential support tickets from users (not an issue but very time consuming). Supporting USB on five major OSes is already enough work.

So the idea now floats between :
- cheap with a small very readable segment display showing a few speed averages,
- cheaper, no screen, quite the rugged fortress.

Opinions welcome.

Side question but would USB plugging Motion to your phone to upload your tracks good enough ? Is your will to not have to kickstart a complete desktop computer to do this ? Or did I understand it wrong ? Thank you ! J

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JulienLe said..
Good, I wanted to have a chat about this. I feel like ditching Bluetooth. Not enough following, too many platforms to trial and support, too many potential support tickets from users (not an issue but very time consuming). Supporting USB on five major OSes is already enough work.

So the idea now floats between :
- cheap with a small very readable segment display showing a few speed averages,
- cheaper, no screen, quite the rugged fortress.

Opinions welcome.

Many people I know were hoping for a small waterproof device. Battery life of at least 24 hours and good memory for multiply sessions.

If Blue tooth increases cost and size then not necessary.

If you look at the current Canmore GP102 it a good small backup device without the accuracy or waterproof.

Personnally I would use as a back up device with another device that gives on water feedback.

If the Canmore is phased out then there are no cheap entry units available for new people.

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jusavina said..
What put me off using the GPS is having to plug it using the USB to the computer.Because I'm lazy, I use my Garmin watch that upload via Bluetooth to my phone automatically instead of using my GT31 (this also stops me to buy the Motion as I know I will not plug it to my computer after a session).The Garmin is a lot less accurate but so much more convenient in my opinion.If you were able to make a light motion having the feature of uploading directly to the phone via Bluetooth, that would be the best of both world as the Motion GPS looks great.

If you do not do GPSTC then stick with your Garmin.
They are accurate for everything except the 2 sec at times and cannot be verified.
KA 72 works fine with Garmin.

Forget Bluetooth if it is too much work. My vote is for a really simple device with no screen. Most people already have a GPS watch for approximate feedback. It would be good to have a simple LED to indicate two states. 1 Power is on. 2 Satellite lock and logging

As I understand it, having BT makes very little cost or size difference. Leaving it out wil not make it much cheaper. Certainly not in the class of the Canmore! The current Motion is already quite small. Any smaller and it would be impractcal and easy to loose.

Bluetoothing results to phone (or tablet/computeretc) is a great idea for those too lazy to open their computer and plug it in. (has the human race really got to that?)

Also, if there is no screen, the results can still be viewed quickly and easily after the session via phone and BT.

I think all understand and support this is a no screen option, For those what want a screen it is the standard Motion or other GPS's available.

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JulienLe said..
Good, I wanted to have a chat about this. I feel like ditching Bluetooth. Not enough following, too many platforms to trial and support, too many potential support tickets from users (not an issue but very time consuming). Supporting USB on five major OSes is already enough work.

So the idea now floats between :
- cheap with a small very readable segment display showing a few speed averages,
- cheaper, no screen, quite the rugged fortress.

Opinions welcome.

Can you leave bluetooth in and simplify its requirements? I don't know how you were going to implement it but I looked at this a little, and I figure that if you implement the device as a serial port (SPP) and just used a basic ZMODEM protocol or something similar to transfer files it might give you the option for users to implement file transfers on whatever platform they want.

Then again, when you need to implement something, nothing is easy.

Would rather loose the screen and keep bt

love using my 'cheap' suunto to monitor on water and quick BT upload to phone while derigging

keen for a waterproof gpstc compliant device that I can BT simply at end of session

Some news by the end of the week. Gears are turning.

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JulienLe said..
Some news by the end of the week. Gears are turning.

Is it the end of the week yet? Its beer o'clock somewhere in the world so it must be the end of the week somewhere too?

I made some important changes to Motion recently to take early user reports into account. They changed my way of viewing/using Motion for the better.

For this same reason, I've decided to give more weight to the messages written above and decided for LightMotion to come with wireless data, inductive charging, network, 10hz GNSS, big memory, big battery, no USB, no display. A rugged black box. It'll be available in bulk to distributors, competitions, clubs and by one to end users. They will only be made in bulk though, once a month. They will also come with a cool new feature I'll explain on release.

I have working prototypes on hand. I'll add a page to the website tomorrow to register your interest.

If this proves a viable alternative to USB, I'll look into moving Motion to wireless data and inductive charging in October.

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JulienLe said..
I made some important changes to Motion recently to take early user reports into account. They changed my way of viewing/using Motion for the better.

For this same reason, I've decided to give more weight to the messages written above and decided for LightMotion to come with wireless data, inductive charging, network, 10hz GNSS, big memory, big battery, no USB, no display. A rugged black box. It'll be available in bulk to distributors, competitions, clubs and by one to end users. They will only be made in bulk though, once a month. They will also come with a cool new feature I'll explain on release.

I have working prototypes on hand. I'll add a page to the website tomorrow to register your interest.

If this proves a viable alternative to USB, I'll look into moving Motion to wireless data and inductive charging in October.

Sounds great .
After purchasing 4 x Canmore, 2 x GT31, 2 x GW52, 2 x GW60 in 4 years a rugged device for GPSTC is on the way.

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Cocky2 said..>>>>>.
After purchasing 4 x Canmore, 2 x GT31, 2 x GW52, 2 x GW60 in 4 years >>>>>>>

What have you been doing with them???? Drowning 1 or two I can understand but 10 in 4 years, that must be some sort of record.

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decrepit said..

Cocky2 said..>>>>>.
After purchasing 4 x Canmore, 2 x GT31, 2 x GW52, 2 x GW60 in 4 years >>>>>>>

What have you been doing with them???? Drowning 1 or two I can understand but 10 in 4 years, that must be some sort of record.

Probably just using them as prescribed, Decrepit. Some people only do 1000km a year in flat water conditions and some will do 5000km a year in rough conditions. The stresses on the devices vary greatly from user to user. I've lost a Canmore and 3 x GW60's in two years.

WOW , you two are great at destroying stuff. I've only killed 2 since 2004, I'm still hoping the other 2 at LG will be found still intact .
I did kill 4 Garmin in 2 years thou before the GT 's arrived. They replaced all under warranty. Great service, just not suited to water

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Cocky2 said..
Sounds great .
After purchasing 4 x Canmore, 2 x GT31, 2 x GW52, 2 x GW60 in 4 years a rugged device for GPSTC is on the way.

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Boston! said..

Probably just using them as prescribed, Decrepit. Some people only do 1000km a year in flat water conditions and some will do 5000km a year in rough conditions. The stresses on the devices vary greatly from user to user. I've lost a Canmore and 3 x GW60's in two years.

Thats ridiculous! Nobody could be that careless.

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kato said..
WOW , you two are great at destroying stuff. I've only killed 2 since 2004, I'm still hoping the other 2 at LG will be found still intact .
I did kill 4 Garmin in 2 years thou before the GT 's arrived. They replaced all under warranty. Great service, just not suited to water

And epic days at the PiT are brutal on sailors and equipment.