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myscreenname said..
Lockdown in Victoria was ...... Looking back, it seems almost unbelievable what the government put us through.

Not sure you could only see it when you looked back. Seemed pretty obvious at the time.

Did you see Peter Costello's comments on it the other day ?

They should have an enquiry of some sort. Oh wait, yeah they did. Except everyone involved either refused to participate or had absolutely no recollection of anything that happened.

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Carantoc said..
Did you see Peter Costello's comments on it the other day ?

Where do I find that, pedant?

Maybe it is just something I know that you don't ?

Try here for a News Corp take on it. I suspect a Guardian article will come soon, as soon as they work out how to spell Costello and stop hyperventilating over whatever they think Trump posted to twitter yesterday.

www.news.com.au/national/victoria/politics/peter-costello-gave-victorias-former-premier-daniel-andrews-a-spray-at-the-alliance-for-responsible-citizenship/news-story/84782bf4d65031d6c56ba7fbfa2bace4

The was a court hearing but Justice what's her name classified all evidence.

Conspiracy theory beliefs in the adolescent population: A systematic review
Anthony Byrne, David Martin, Claire Jones, Niall Galbraith, Tom Mercer
Journal of adolescence, 2024

Introduction
While the study of conspiracy theory beliefs is a relatively new research area, there has been a rise in academic interest in recent years. The literature provides evidence of relationships between conspiracy theory beliefs and a range of factors, but the vast majority of studies are limited to adult samples, and it is unclear how such beliefs present in adolescence.

Methods
The systematic review was conducted according to the PRISMA?S format. Relevant databases were searched up to February 23, 2023, for quantitative studies related to adolescent conspiracy theory beliefs.

Results
The six included articles show that conspiracy theory beliefs are present from the start of adolescence, and stable from age 14 upwards, with correlations reported for mistrust and paranoid thinking. Negative relationships were reported for cognitive factors such as ontological confusion, cognitive ability, and actively open?minded thinking. Health?related beliefs correlated with adverse childhood experiences, peer problems, conduct, and sociodemographic factors. Right?wing authoritarianism and anxiety positively correlated with intergroup conspiracy theory beliefs.

Conclusion
While some factors from adult studies are replicated in the review, there are differences between age groups. The age at which conspiracy theory beliefs begin to form indicate developmental aspects of adolescence, and possibly childhood, that require further examination. Cognitive factors show promise for interventions and should be explored further. However, the lack of studies using adolescent populations is an issue that must be resolved for a greater understanding of conspiracy theory beliefs and a move toward effective interventions.
s an extreme outcome of common cognitive processes.

Hey remery,

Do you know that a 'conspiracy theory belief' isn't just any opinion that is different to yours, or an opinion that you disagree with.

Or at least is didn't used to be. It does seem the definition might have changed. Much like many other terms such as "racist", "misogynist", "equal opportunity".....

^ not sure what you are asking, editing before the time-out will be helpful.

I wasn't sure what your seemingly random quote above was in reference to.

If it was commenting on the posts above regarding belief that the Andrew's government response to Covid was extremely poor and then when questions were asked there was a convenient bout of amnesia and classification of official government documents, then I was making a point I don't believe that thinking those things is anything close to having 'conspiracy theory beliefs'.

On the other hand, if your quote was just some random grab of text from the internet with not much reference to the conversation currently occurring or any of your own explanation or assessment of the quote then.... fair enough my response was out of context to your out of context response - although it would seem hypocritical when you then pile on to Pcd when he also quotes random grabs of text from the internet with not much reference to the conversation currently occurring or any of his own explanation or assessment of the quote.

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Carantoc said..
Maybe it is just something I know that you don't ?

Did you know Dan Andrews is getting a statue? Funny thing is one of his biggest critics, former Premier, Jeff Kennet, made the law that entitled him to one.

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Carantoc said..
I wasn't sure what your seemingly random quote above was in reference to.

If it was commenting on the posts above regarding belief that the Andrew's government response to Covid was extremely poor and then when questions were asked there was a convenient bout of amnesia and classification of official government documents, then I was making a point I don't believe that thinking those things is anything close to having 'conspiracy theory beliefs'.

On the other hand, if your quote was just some random grab of text from the internet with not much reference to the conversation currently occurring or any of your own explanation or assessment of the quote then.... fair enough my response was out of context to your out of context response - although it would seem hypocritical when you then pile on to Pcd when he also quotes random grabs of text from the internet with not much reference to the conversation currently occurring or any of his own explanation or assessment of the quote.

Minenwasn't a response or a quote. It was a summary of a scientific paper about conspiracy theories... in a thread about critical thinking. It's not always about you.

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myscreenname said..

Carantoc said..
Maybe it is just something I know that you don't ?

Did you know Dan Andrews is getting a statue? Funny thing is one of his biggest critics, former Premier, Jeff Kennet, made the law that entitled him to one.

Public. Toilet.

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myscreenname said...
Did you know Dan Andrews is getting a statue?

Getting or got ?

He left more than a year ago. It'll probably be 3 years late and $2bn over budget. What's the betting it eventually ends up as the Vicco taxpayer funding a staue to somebody else and located in Scotland.

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".... Negative relationships were reported for cognitive factors such as ontological confusion, cognitive ability, and actively open?minded thinking.... "

I didn't know what odontological confusion was all about. What an interesting little rabbit hole, especially the effect of environment in childhood and early adolescence. Can't see me popping my head up for a while.
FWIW here is a reasonably concise definition I found: (their emphasis)
'Ontological confusion refers to the difficulty or failure to differentiate between what is real and what is not, particularly when distinguishing between abstract concepts (like myths, beliefs, or supernatural entities) and physical reality. It occurs when people mistakenly attribute real-world existence to something that is merely symbolic, fictional, or metaphorical. This confusion can affect decision-making and perceptions of truth, often seen in areas like pseudoscience or conspiracy theories.'

^ not to be confused with ONTOGENY, which is also interesting, just ask Ernst Haeckel.

I do have a handle on Haeckel - stressful flashbacks trying to remember all that stuff in Embryology all those years ago!

"With the progress of the vaccination campaign against the SARS-COV-2, we are ever closer to reaching that part of the population that refuses or is hesitant about vaccination. This study investigated the association between critical thinking motivation factors (i.e., intrinsic value of critical thinking and expectancy of one's critical thinking ability), conspiracy mentality, intolerance of uncertainty and hesitancy toward vaccination. A sample of 390 participants completed an online survey during April 2021. Across participants, results indicate that conspiracy mentality and expectancy about personal ability as a critical thinker positively predict vaccine hesitancy. On the contrary, the intrinsic value attributed to critical thinking, intolerance of uncertainty, and education are negatively associated with hesitancy. While the findings confirm existing evidence, particularly on the detrimental role of conspiracy mentality on vaccine acceptance, they also shed light on the double-faced role exercised by critical thinking. Practical implications and future directions are discussed.
...
Thinking style preferences, particularly for critical/analytical thinking, have been investigated as a possible protective factor against the endorsement of conspiracy theories. For instance, analytic thinking is associated with reduced beliefs in conspiracy theories and, in line with that, experimentally eliciting analytic thinking produces a reduction in conspiracies ideation. Generally speaking, out of the different measures and constructs used in literature to assess this variable, a more intuitive vs. deliberative thinking style has been consistently reported as a predictor of conspiracy mentality. As related to the COVID-19 pandemic and related behaviors, Stanley and colleagues recently showed that lower engagement in analytic thinking is a predictor of both the tendency to believe that the pandemic is a hoax and the lack of respect for social distancing measures."

Cannito, L., Ceccato, I., Bortolotti, A. et al. Exploring vaccine hesitancy: the twofold role of critical thinking. Curr Psychol 43, 15046-15054 (2024). doi.org/10.1007/s12144-022-04165-w

"A surge in far-right parties entering governments across Europe is raising concerns for science. Policy experts warn that these parties typically show no interest in research and innovation, leaving scientists vulnerable to budget cuts. In the Netherlands, researchers are bracing for ?1 billion (US$1.1 billion) in cuts to the university and research budget under a coalition government including the anti-Islam Party for Freedom. The coalition also wants to limit the intake of international students and implement rules that would require universities to apply for permission to teach courses in English, which could trigger an exodus of foreign academics who don't want to, or can't, teach in Dutch."

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-03506-y

"... in models mutually adjusting for [Congressional District] political and social metrics and vaccination rates, Republican trifecta and conservative voter political lean independently remained significantly associated with an 11%-26% higher COVID-19 mortality rate."

Relationship of political ideology of US federal and state elected officials and key COVID pandemic outcomes following vaccine rollout to adults: April 2021-March 2022
www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X(22)00201-0/fulltext

"... the scientific community must fight scientific mis- and disinformation as though lives depended on truth and trust, because they do."

www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.adu4907

^^^^^ You should stop doom scrolling , its no good for you

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Pcdefender said..
I reckon you and Chris 249 are perfectly suited for Canberra - God help us

I did work in Canberra for a while. One contract was working on one of the teams that took on big business and won, scoring record fines and saving the country hundreds of millions of dollars. The last one included recommending action against high-ups in the military and a very prominent soldier or two. Before that I did things like getting rid of bad and corrupt lawyers. In other words, while pcdefender was playing with his keyboard, I and others were actually taking on crooks and bullies and winning for the good guys.

This is where these guys show their cowardice. There are plenty of other people out there who see things that should be fixed, and then go out and get an education and fix them. Some spend years living in tents to help out people in developing countries, some took big pay cuts (compared to where they could get elsewhere) year after year for decades or more so they could solve social issues, others worked in the desert far from their family.

Those people saw a problem and went out there and fixed it. The CT guys claim to see a problem and just sit inside and whine about it. They don't do any actual investigation themselves, like getting original documents. They don't go out and get degrees so they can find out what is really happening and try to fix it, like scientists and doctor and others do. Nope, they claim to see catastrophes around and yet all they do is sit on the internet and then go to the beach or the pub instead of getting qualifications and a job where they could actually do something.

They are too cowardly to go out and try to take effective action against these so-called perils. Wimps, the lot of them. Like an paralytic old dero with a goon skin, they are all whine and no action.

When a CTer has actually taken on powerful people and businesses and won, rather than whining and fantasising about it, then they can talk. Until then it's all bull**** and cowardice.

Here you go. Let's get critical:

x.com/0rf/status/1859702328015847914?s=46&t=1GB2TIBB90HpGgoUCFAO5w

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Chris 249 said..


I did work in Canberra for a while...... blah blah ......am I a big boy mummy

Get over yourself

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TonyAbbott said..

Chris 249 said..


I did work in Canberra for a while...... blah blah ......am I a big boy mummy

Get over yourself.....because we don't like the truth.

Why do you apparently see something wrong in working against corporate crime and conmen? It says a lot about your level of honesty.

You totally missed the point, which is that I have a right to reply to what a CTer says about me, and that CT dickheads here have been saying that those who oppose their BS are sheep when in fact we are doing things to stop crap going down while they do nothing but whine.

Unlike you and the CTers, people with critical thinking skills provide evidence for their claim, as I did. What I did was no more than if I'd said I'd worked as a sailmaker in a discussion on Seabreeze on sailmaking, or when people here say that they work as shapers, or when a CTer here said that he'd worked in middle management in corporations.

You've got one of the biggest egoes here. You do little but drop in snide remarks, with no evidence to back them up, as if you are smarter than anyone else. You do that while proving that you are not smart by totally missing the point, as in this case. I'd tell you to get over yourself but your head is so big that getting over it would need sherpas.

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japie said..
Here you go. Let's get critical:

x.com/0rf/status/1859702328015847914?s=46&t=1GB2TIBB90HpGgoUCFAO5w

A classic case of NOT applying critical thinking. The claim is that "the media and every late night comedian" did something - and yet there is no evidence whatsoever that the claim is true. So show us where "the media and every late night comedian" did what is claimed and people with critical thinking skills will believe you.

Until you give proof, only the sheep will listen.

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Chris 249 said..

japie said..
Here you go. Let's get critical:

x.com/0rf/status/1859702328015847914?s=46&t=1GB2TIBB90HpGgoUCFAO5w

A classic case of NOT applying critical thinking. The claim is that "the media and every late night comedian" did something - and yet there is no evidence whatsoever that the claim is true. So show us where "the media and every late night comedian" did what is claimed and people with critical thinking skills will believe you.

Until you give proof, only the sheep will listen.

What was the Joe Rogan video in the link, didn't that have evidence to support the claim. Am I a sheep

USA ranked #14 - 3,642 deaths per million.
Australia #108 - 937 deaths per million
Japan ranked #129 - 595 deaths per million.

A hunch: x.com/0rf/status/1694370372005560377?s=46&t=1GB2TIBB90HpGgoUCFAO5w

"What you can safely say is that if you divide the number of reported deaths by the number of reported cases, you will almost certainly get the wrong answer," said John Edmunds, a professor at the centre for mathematical modelling of infectious diseases at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine.

That's why World Health Organization (WHO) officials - who said last week that 3.4% of the people worldwide confirmed as having been infected with the new coronavirus had died - were careful not to describe that as a mortality rate or death rate.

"In an unfolding epidemic, it can be misleading to look at the naive estimate of deaths so far divided by cases so far," said Christl Donnelly, a disease specialist at Oxford University and Imperial College London. "This is due to the delay from the time it takes for individuals to progress from being diagnosed as cases to dying."

With COVID-19 - the infection caused by the new coronavirus - the time between onset of disease and death is fairly significant, at around two to three weeks or more.

So the sum involved would need to compare the number of deaths at a given point with the actual case numbers from some weeks beforehand.

Page 41 summary:

Jaipie is right
Chris 249 got egg on face
remery took out top pedant award