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D3 said..
Maybe Peacenlove could provide the actual words spoken by Professor Sutton if he is expecting remery to provide a response accurate enough to meet Carantocs stringent standards.

Perhaps Carantoc should ask questions that aren't designed to trap the respondent into a weaker position on complex topics?

Or maybe Carantoc could give us a yes no answer to his own question?

You said the word carantoc so many times i assumed it was carrantoc speaking



Hay guys im starting to think ProfitNLoss is an "anti vaxxer"

Hey Peacenlove, you seem to mix up or interchange death rates and infection rates and raw data pretty well.

Nice to see Dr Tenpenny just saying numbers. Where did she get her 2/million death rate?
Is she saying that 1/500k infections resulted in death or that 1/500k population died from measles infection?

Those are very different stat's, with very different implications, considering that measles is mostly a disease that affects younger people and children.

From the CDC data, it's clear that your claims "that deaths from almost all communicable diseases were reduced to almost zero BEFORE vaccines were introduced" are inaccurate.
More like that they were reduced from extremely common, to less likely but still high.
Around 450 deaths from at least 400K reported infections. (Yes they believe there may have been 4 million cases in the USA, but that means a death rate of around 1/9000 infections)
www.cdc.gov/measles/about/questions.html

CDC_AAref_Val=www.cdc.gov/measles/about/faqs.html

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles_resurgence_in_the_United_States




It's clear that there were significant improvements in health and disease management in the early 20th century, we agree here, the data and plenty of studies back this up.
Not sure why you keep saying that people don't accept this? Why do you spouting "The vaccine Cult would like us to believe that vaccines drove this decline but that is a total falsehood."?

Anyway, after those improvements were realised in the early 20th century, there was still hundreds of thousands or possibly even millions of infections every year into the 1960s.
These resulted in hundreds of deaths, mostly in children.
Even today, there's not much we can do to treat measles. From the WHO "There is no specific treatment for measles. Caregiving should focus on relieving symptoms, making the person comfortable and preventing complications. "
www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/measles

I notice your comment that included claiming the WHO says Vitamin A cures measles has been removed. Is that because you checked the above link and noticed that was not correct?


In any case, I'm glad you agree that mmr vaccination reduces infection rates, thereby reducing the number of people who can contract the disease.
"All the vaccine did was reduce the infection incidence"

Because that's reducing the number of people who end up dying from it, having lifelong problems, being hospitalised, having the immune system trashed etc.

And

D3 is just a doctor to the power of 3

Vitamin D?

Delirious Delusional Deranged?

Doped Duped Doof?

All sorts of possibilities, but definitely #notarealdoctor

Think i found my new dj name

Dr doof food rd

Doof dr dr food

Dr food doof dr

Food dr doof dr


Hmmmm 7 billion people one of these must exist

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peacenlove said

This is to protect the medical industry's interests - in my opinion.

I just thought you should know that your opinion has no value. To anyone. Anywhere.

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Froth Goth said..
And

D3 is just a doctor to the power of 3

Like.

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remery said..I just thought you should know that your opinion has no value. To anyone. Anywhere.

peacenlove said

This is to protect the medical industry's interests - in my opinion.

Comical attempt. That's the kind of self centred nonsense that mankind is accustomed to coming out of the mouths of self appointed rulers, monarchs, dictators, politicians and so-called experts and says a lot about you.

When you say "just thought", i very much doubt it.

My informed opinion has equal value to any other soul's informed opinion. To believe otherwise is perhaps a product of not being adequately informed.

In response to some of your claims above, I've heard hundreds of people in my life claim that vaccines were the major driver of infectious disease reduction in the 20thC and also claims that they eradicated disease, but the truth is that general health policies and improving prosperity drove the early and steepest reductions in infectious disease before the introduction of vaccines. (CDC data no some dodgy graph you posted).

Even this website resources.healthgrades.com/right-care/vaccines/14-diseases-nearly-eliminated-by-vaccines admits that vaccines "almost", but not fully eliminated infectious disease, whilst also conveniently presenting them as the sole cause of these reductions. No mention of the reductions in infectious disease before the introduction of modern vaccines, nor any mention of the history of fatal vaccines such as the 1955 polio vaccine, nor the early measles vaccines that caused atypical measles in thousands of children, nor the 1976 "Swine Flu" hoax vaccines that was terminated following hundreds of cases of severe neurological adverse events and some deaths.

Still, the pro-vaccine cult cannot explain the dramatic increases in non-communicable diseases especially in our young since the introduction of modern vaccines and modern health policies since the end of WWII. At best, the excuse is "we have better testing" and the disease was always there. Bollocks.

This article on the Covid Cult's "medieval police state" makes a lot of sense:

brownstone.org/articles/covid-response-at-five-years-religion/

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peacenlove said..

remery said..I just thought you should know that your opinion has no value. To anyone. Anywhere.

peacenlove said

This is to protect the medical industry's interests - in my opinion.

Comical attempt. That's the kind of self centred nonsense that mankind is accustomed to coming out of the mouths of self appointed rulers, monarchs, dictators, politicians and so-called experts and says a lot about you.

When you say "just thought", i very much doubt it.

My informed opinion has equal value to any other soul's informed opinion. To believe otherwise is perhaps a product of not being adequately informed.

In response to some of your claims above, I've heard hundreds of people in my life claim that vaccines were the major driver of infectious disease reduction in the 20thC and also claims that they eradicated disease, but the truth is that general health policies and improving prosperity drove the early and steepest reductions in infectious disease before the introduction of vaccines. (CDC data no some dodgy graph you posted).

Even this website resources.healthgrades.com/right-care/vaccines/14-diseases-nearly-eliminated-by-vaccines admits that vaccines "almost", but not fully eliminated infectious disease, whilst also conveniently presenting them as the sole cause of these reductions. No mention of the reductions in infectious disease before the introduction of modern vaccines, nor any mention of the history of fatal vaccines such as the 1955 polio vaccine, nor the early measles vaccines that caused atypical measles in thousands of children, nor the 1976 "Swine Flu" hoax vaccines that was terminated following hundreds of cases of severe neurological adverse events and some deaths.

Still, the pro-vaccine cult cannot explain the dramatic increases in non-communicable diseases especially in our young since the introduction of modern vaccines and modern health policies since the end of WWII. At best, the excuse is "we have better testing" and the disease was always there. Bollocks.

The article you link to clearly states how much of an impact those 14 diseases had prior to the particular vaccine being introduced.

The article shows that despite "general health policies and improving prosperity drove the early and steepest reductions in infectious disease", there was still significant impact from these diseases.

And that dramatic further reductions in the impact of each disease was achieved almost immediately after the release of each vaccine.

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peacenlove said..

My informed opinion has equal value to any other soul's informed opinion. To believe otherwise is perhaps a product of not being adequately informed.

That depends on how informed you are. I doubt you are very well informed at all. Talking to like-minded people, googling websites that support your erroneous position is not a means of becoming "informed".

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D3 said..And that dramatic further reductions in the impact of each disease was achieved almost immediately after the release of each vaccine.

peacenlove said..

remery said..I just thought you should know that your opinion has no value. To anyone. Anywhere.

peacenlove said

This is to protect the medical industry's interests - in my opinion.

Comical attempt. That's the kind of self centred nonsense that mankind is accustomed to coming out of the mouths of self appointed rulers, monarchs, dictators, politicians and so-called experts and says a lot about you.

When you say "just thought", i very much doubt it.

My informed opinion has equal value to any other soul's informed opinion. To believe otherwise is perhaps a product of not being adequately informed.

In response to some of your claims above, I've heard hundreds of people in my life claim that vaccines were the major driver of infectious disease reduction in the 20thC and also claims that they eradicated disease, but the truth is that general health policies and improving prosperity drove the early and steepest reductions in infectious disease before the introduction of vaccines. (CDC data no some dodgy graph you posted).

Even this website resources.healthgrades.com/right-care/vaccines/14-diseases-nearly-eliminated-by-vaccines admits that vaccines "almost", but not fully eliminated infectious disease, whilst also conveniently presenting them as the sole cause of these reductions. No mention of the reductions in infectious disease before the introduction of modern vaccines, nor any mention of the history of fatal vaccines such as the 1955 polio vaccine, nor the early measles vaccines that caused atypical measles in thousands of children, nor the 1976 "Swine Flu" hoax vaccines that was terminated following hundreds of cases of severe neurological adverse events and some deaths.

Still, the pro-vaccine cult cannot explain the dramatic increases in non-communicable diseases especially in our young since the introduction of modern vaccines and modern health policies since the end of WWII. At best, the excuse is "we have better testing" and the disease was always there. Bollocks.

The article you link to clearly states how much of an impact those 14 diseases had prior to the particular vaccine being introduced.

The article shows that despite "general health policies and improving prosperity drove the early and steepest reductions in infectious disease", there was still significant impact from these diseases.

And that dramatic further reductions in the impact of each disease was achieved almost immediately after the release of each vaccine.

Odd, aren't the COVID-19 "vaccines" quite useless at preventing infection and illness and even death?

Weren't we were told that's exactly what the vaccines would do?

Wasn't that the main reason for the "Lockdown Until Vaccination" policies of the Scamdemic era?

Some here seem to think you're a medical doctor. Is that correct D3?

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D3 said..

All sorts of possibilities, but definitely #notarealdoctor

Peacenlove, maybe you missed this one?

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D3 said..

D3 said..

All sorts of possibilities, but definitely #notarealdoctor

Peacenlove, maybe you missed this one?

Check. A scientist?

So, on your claim that vaccines finish the job at the tiny tail end of all other measures, aren't the COVID-19 "vaccines" quite useless at preventing infection and illness and even death?

Weren't we were told that's exactly what the vaccines would do?

Wasn't that the main reason for the "Lockdown Until Vaccination" policies of the Scamdemic era?

When are the COVID-19 vaccines going to "eradicate" COVID-19?

Is it booster 24, 36, or 666?

Since you are so well informed, (haha), educate us. No one seems to have the answer.

Because they are asking the wrong questions . . .

BTW a mate of mines 98 year old grandma presented to her doctor with a nasty respiratory illness (COVID neg.), so the idiot doctor made her get a PFizer COVID shot and she immediately got filthy sick for days.

The family is furious that a doctor would do such a stupid thing when he should know better how an immune system works.

I'm sorry the vaccines weren't good enough for you.

Turns out the human body and the diseases that affect can be tricky.

I'm sorry that you seem to have got mixed up.
You seem to be under the impression that covid vaccines of all types were ineffective?
I'm sure your evidence for this would be the number of people who got sick, hospitalised and died from COVID-19, yes?

But then you go to say that the pandemic was a "Scamdemic" and imply that measures put in place to reduce the impact of COVID-19 were unnecessary?

So which is true to you?

COVID-19 killed lots of people and made heaps more very sick, while the vaccines were "quite useless"?

Or that COVID-19 was not real/not dangerous and that people didn't die from it, therefore the vaccines were not only useless but unnecessary?


I thought we were discussing why you believe vaccines are likely causing non-transmissible diseases whole not doing much to reduce disease burden.

Just look up the numbers of kids dying from HIB before the vaccine was introduced, then tell me that it was other societal and environmental factors that were responsible for the sudden drop in cases and deaths?

Edit: no need to patronise D3.

You claimed that many "infectious" diseases are virtually eradicated by vaccines right?

I do agree that the diseases that affect the body are tricky, and that's precisely why a sub-cutaneous injection of biologics can make matters worse. It's totally unnatural except in the case of poisonous bite.

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peacenlove said..
BTW a mate of mines 98 year old grandma presented to her doctor with a nasty respiratory illness (COVID neg.), so the idiot doctor made her get a PFizer COVID shot and she immediately got filthy sick for days.

The family is furious that a doctor would do such a stupid thing when he should know better how an immune system works.

Seems like you think you know as much as a medical doctor?

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D3 said.. Seems like you think you know as much as a medical doctor?

peacenlove said..
BTW a mate of mines 98 year old grandma presented to her doctor with a nasty respiratory illness (COVID neg.), so the idiot doctor made her get a PFizer COVID shot and she immediately got filthy sick for days.

The family is furious that a doctor would do such a stupid thing when he should know better how an immune system works.

Do i really? Putting thoughts in my head now?

Odd interpretation of my telling of the story there. The doctor's actions were directly responsible for her sudden deterioration.

By the way, medical errors and malpractice, which is what we're talking about above, are consistently in the top five leading causes of death, so no, i wouldn't wish to be in a position of such ignorance that caused so much death.

I have very little respect for a system of medicine that prioritises treatment of symptoms rather than prevention and treatment of the underlying causes of disease.

So when is the COVID-19 "vaccine" going to eradicate COVID-19?

D3 a scientist?

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peacenlove said.

Odd, aren't the COVID-19 "vaccines" quite useless at preventing infection and illness and even death?

Weren't we were told that's exactly what the vaccines would do?

Wasn't that the main reason for the "Lockdown Until Vaccination" policies of the Scamdemic era?

Some here seem to think you're a medical doctor. Is that correct D3?

No, you are making stuff up... again

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peacenlove said..

Check. A scientist?

So, on your claim that vaccines finish the job at the tiny tail end of all other measures, aren't the COVID-19 "vaccines" quite useless at preventing infection and illness and even death?

Weren't we were told that's exactly what the vaccines would do?

Wasn't that the main reason for the "Lockdown Until Vaccination" policies of the Scamdemic era?

When are the COVID-19 vaccines going to "eradicate" COVID-19?

Is it booster 24, 36, or 666?

Since you are so well informed, (haha), educate us. No one seems to have the answer.

Because they are asking the wrong questions . . .

No, you are making stuff up... again.

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peacenlove said..
BTW a mate of mines 98 year old grandma presented to her doctor with a nasty respiratory illness (COVID neg.), so the idiot doctor made her get a PFizer COVID shot and she immediately got filthy sick for days.

The family is furious that a doctor would do such a stupid thing when he should know better how an immune system works.

BTW I'm fully vaccinated, no side effects, never had COVID. FTW.

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peacenlove said..
Edit: no need to patronise D3.

You claimed that many "infectious" diseases are virtually eradicated by vaccines right?

I do agree that the diseases that affect the body are tricky, and that's precisely why a sub-cutaneous injection of biologics can make matters worse. It's totally unnatural except in the case of poisonous bite.

I'll promise to try stop being patronising if you promise to get your story straight?

According to the Australian Immunisation Handbook, COVID-19 vaccines are Intramuscular injections.

immunisationhandbook.health.gov.au/contents/vaccination-procedures/administration-of-vaccines

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peacenlove said..

I do agree that the diseases that affect the body are tricky

Wow! You must be a genius.

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remery said..

peacenlove said.

Odd, aren't the COVID-19 "vaccines" quite useless at preventing infection and illness and even death?

Weren't we were told that's exactly what the vaccines would do?

Wasn't that the main reason for the "Lockdown Until Vaccination" policies of the Scamdemic era?

Some here seem to think you're a medical doctor. Is that correct D3?

No, you are making stuff up... again

I think you have a very selective memory of history. That's exactly what our benevolent tyrant leaders and compliant mainstream media said that the vaccines would do. Prevent illness and stop the spread so the lockdowns could be ended.

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remery said..

peacenlove said..

I do agree that the diseases that affect the body are tricky

Wow! You must be a genius.

So to simplify en entire pandemic response to a vaccine is initiotic at best.

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D3 said..

peacenlove said..
Edit: no need to patronise D3.

You claimed that many "infectious" diseases are virtually eradicated by vaccines right?

I do agree that the diseases that affect the body are tricky, and that's precisely why a sub-cutaneous injection of biologics can make matters worse. It's totally unnatural except in the case of poisonous bite.

I'll promise to try stop being patronising if you promise to get your story straight?

According to the Australian Immunisation Handbook, COVID-19 vaccines are Intramuscular injections.

immunisationhandbook.health.gov.au/contents/vaccination-procedures/administration-of-vaccines

Yeah! Wasn't claiming anything here. Trouble is, the mRNA wrapped in the nano-tech iOS specifically designed to travel through the body, and has even been found in the brain, heart, livers and lungs. That's why myocarditis and pericarditis and liver cancers increased after the shots. Even i know of one liver turbo cancer death certified by the patient's oncologist. Sobering.

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remery said..BTW I'm fully vaccinated, no side effects, never had COVID. FTW.

peacenlove said..
BTW a mate of mines 98 year old grandma presented to her doctor with a nasty respiratory illness (COVID neg.), so the idiot doctor made her get a PFizer COVID shot and she immediately got filthy sick for days.

The family is furious that a doctor would do such a stupid thing when he should know better how an immune system works.

I'm not vaccinated. Nor were my elderly parents. None of us got COVID and i haven't had a cold of flu-like illness for many years.

The only family members and friends to have side effects were those vaccinated! Obviously!

As I said, the most vaccinated family member went to a vaccinated only party during the vaccine mandate tyranny and then brought COVID home. Oh the irony.

BTW you'' never be fully vaccinated because the boosters keep coming to make up for the failing shot you just had.

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peacenlove said..

D3 said..

D3 said..

All sorts of possibilities, but definitely #notarealdoctor

Peacenlove, maybe you missed this one?

Check. A scientist?

So, on your claim that vaccines finish the job at the tiny tail end of all other measures, aren't the COVID-19 "vaccines" quite useless at preventing infection and illness and even death?

Weren't we were told that's exactly what the vaccines would do?

Wasn't that the main reason for the "Lockdown Until Vaccination" policies of the Scamdemic era?

When are the COVID-19 vaccines going to "eradicate" COVID-19?

Is it booster 24, 36, or 666?

Since you are so well informed, (haha), educate us. No one seems to have the answer.

Because they are asking the wrong questions . . .

Where on earth did you get the idea that anyone thought that any and all vaccines "finish the job" by eradicating the disease they are intended to prevent serious illnes from?

Pretty sure everyone was expecting it to not be more effective than the Influenza vaccine.
You know the one they recommend you get an updated version every year?

Or hey, what about the Pertussis and Tetanus vaccines?
Recommended to get boosters?
Yep

Covid vaccines are not the magic bullet other vaccines have been, which is a shame. This does not invalidate what they achieved.

Did some politicians (in particular) and too many scientists, who should have known better, make announcements that did not match reality?
Unfortunately yes.

So this is one of the reasons the whole topic is more nuanced than what you kept posting

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D3 said..

peacenlove said..

D3 said..

D3 said..

All sorts of possibilities, but definitely #notarealdoctor

Peacenlove, maybe you missed this one?

Check. A scientist?

So, on your claim that vaccines finish the job at the tiny tail end of all other measures, aren't the COVID-19 "vaccines" quite useless at preventing infection and illness and even death?

Weren't we were told that's exactly what the vaccines would do?

Wasn't that the main reason for the "Lockdown Until Vaccination" policies of the Scamdemic era?

When are the COVID-19 vaccines going to "eradicate" COVID-19?

Is it booster 24, 36, or 666?

Since you are so well informed, (haha), educate us. No one seems to have the answer.

Because they are asking the wrong questions . . .

Where on earth did you get the idea that anyone thought that any and all vaccines "finish the job" by eradicating the disease they are intended to prevent serious illnes from?

Pretty sure everyone was expecting it to not be more effective than the Influenza vaccine.
You know the one they recommend you get an updated version every year?

Or hey, what about the Pertussis and Tetanus vaccines?
Recommended to get boosters?
Yep

Covid vaccines are not the magic bullet other vaccines have been, which is a shame. This does not invalidate what they achieved.

Did some politicians (in particular) and too many scientists, who should have known better, make announcements that did not match reality?
Unfortunately yes.

So this is one of the reasons the whole topic is more nuanced than what you kept posting

You're mincing up what I've said for flourish D3. It doesn't serve you well.

I haven't had a cold or flu-like illness in over ten years, since i corrected my own health and "did my own research". Before that I'd have several bouts of illness a year and used to get quaccinated.

Good to see you've admitted that politicians and too many scientists made false claims. That'/s exactly the problem I'm talking about. The real and most dangerous misinformation comes from politicians and so-called experts who have skin in the game. Bill Gates is a man who puts viruses into his computer operating system, then provides costly solutions in conjunction with his mates in the anti-virus and malware industries. These crooks are no different to the big pharma crooks. A 20:1 ROI for Gates on vaccine investments doesn't sound like philanthropy to me.

PS. BTW, my last vaccination was seven years ago. Tenatus. Gave me nasty painful boils under the arms. That really woke me up.

Of course the topic is nuanced. That's the point. Narrowing it down to a vaccination is the effing problem. Health is about terrain, not just germs.