Select to expand quote

eppo said..

hilly said..

eppo said..
So this is a series of texts i just received from a seriously talented local (non Team Rider) waterman (can do all the water sports to a high level) - was on armstrong, went to another brand, then back to armstrong just recently. and sounds like he made the right move.

This was his First DW on the 880. No editing - just took out my questions plus all references to comparisons to other brands he has ridden.


"Thing is crazy good, can go so fast and still super slow when needed, and can do sick turns super forgiving

And if you miss a bump it doesn't stall can just keep it hovering until the next bump

That south run was pretty wild too! 20km

30knt gusts mega bumps

Shoulda been on a smaller wing ??

Did a 2.02 min km Fkn fast

795 180 blue shim

Frothing"

Matty ain't human though he should have tried Code

"Matty ain't human though he should have tried Code "

.. yeh he's an exceptional waterman on an exceptional foil it seems, from his perspective.

Code foils are great as well - they have done such a good job with those foils.

Thats an awesome run, some serious energy down that way !!I tried the Code and was very impressed, to the point I almost bought one, glad I didn't though as this new HA has some secret ingredient.

Yesterday I had a little wing with my dad and brother in law on flat water, can't say I was that exited but decided to give the 880 a go, I had a blast.

Takeaway: The latest generation of Armstrong foils are much better than the older generations.

The fundamental problem is that Armstrong foils have been so far behind other brands that "better than the MAs!" is basically a meaningless statement in today's environment, giving no benchmark.

A different question: Are they an actual new frontier and should we switch from other brands? (f-one, unifoil, lift, AFS, etc).

Or even better, is the comparable size Armstrong HA better than the undisputed gold standard for the past nearly 3 years: the Lift 120 ?

Select to expand quote

Icebergmansion said..
Takeaway: The latest generation of Armstrong foils are much better than the older generations.

The fundamental problem is that Armstrong foils have been so far behind other brands that "better than the MAs!" is basically a meaningless statement in today's environment, giving no benchmark.

A different question: Are they an actual new frontier and should we switch from other brands? (f-one, unifoil, lift, AFS, etc).

Or even better, is the comparable size Armstrong HA better than the undisputed gold standard for the past nearly 3 years: the Lift 120 ?

so far behind other brands period or for specific purposes? Id argue the latter.

A new frontier. I would say probably not. I've read some people switching back in places around the world but as you eluded to there are some amazing foils already out there. Namely Code and F one stand out for me - but many others that are well beyond your 120 lift apparent gold standard.

Surely one would only consider changing brands if they weren't happy and that would require some solid demo rides - not from opinions on here. Depends on how you ride, and the feel you are looking for. Every brand has its own unique idiosyncrasies.

There was this but who knows what legit and what's not.

"..check out FoilHub. There's some good videos on em. My buddy said its revolutionary and the new HA actually got him off Lift and Unifoil and back on Armstrong."

Select to expand quote

Icebergmansion said..

...The fundamental problem is that Armstrong foils have been so far behind other brands...

What discipline are you basing this on? Look at Cash Berzolla on wing foil, the kid is next level ripping in waves on Armstrong gear. Oskar has been ripping on Armstrong for years, including his 2:46 prone run. Gage the Waterman won this year's Gorge Challenge DW race on a 2-year old HA1125 foil against some world class competition. Look at any clip from Austin Tovey or Noah Flegel and tell me their gear is so far behind other brands. No doubt these are elite athletes who could rip on anything but they are choosing to ride Armstrong.

Maybe at your local break the 120 is the undisputed gold standard but look worldwide at multiple disciplines and your statement is highly disputable.

In some muted defense for Icebergmansion .

Armstrong were lacking an easy to use foil for prone/ Sup surfing for pump and link and also winging for really heavy riders.

The 120 did have it over anything from armstrong in that regards. I know this because i rode the 120 more than a few times so im not just guessing. The cab, the eagles, takuma, unifoil - all had much easier to use surfing foils. Personally i just got good at using the 925 but the stall speed and hard carve drop outs were always frustrating for an average rider like me.

Towing and winging in waves i've not ridden anything that can touch the Ma wings on the market myself. DW winging . not so much.

But this has all changed now. worth the wait it seems.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
Armstrong were lacking an easy to use foil for prone/ Sup surfing for pump and link and also winging for really heavy riders.

Recommendations for me? No demos in my area so doing this all online :-) Using the MA1225 and 1750 winging... at 100kegs fully loaded, i need to use my MA1750 to get decent glide on .5-1m soft waves. But it's really unpleasant if the wind is over 15mph and there's any chop in the water, plus it turns pretty slowly. On the MA1225, it's great blasting through chop up to 25mph windy days, but I find it REALLY difficult to get any glide on waves with the MA1225 (with 205 tail) if it's less than 1m and doesn't have some decent power in the wave. Plus the MA1225 bucks quite a lot in the chop when it's over 25mph winds and powered up. The MA1225 handles speed dropping down waves and breaching great, but i just can't seem to get any reliable glide to be able to flag out.
1) Thinking of adding a smaller foil for the 20-35mph windy days, and also want some decent glide for any waves. HA880?
2) For 15-25 mph days with any wave action, HA 1080?
Cheers!

Select to expand quote

Icebergmansion said..
Takeaway: The latest generation of Armstrong foils are much better than the older generations.

The fundamental problem is that Armstrong foils have been so far behind other brands that "better than the MAs!" is basically a meaningless statement in today's environment, giving no benchmark.

A different question: Are they an actual new frontier and should we switch from other brands? (f-one, unifoil, lift, AFS, etc).

Or even better, is the comparable size Armstrong HA better than the undisputed gold standard for the past nearly 3 years: the Lift 120 ?

Unfortunately Lift had construction issues and a wobbly mast or it would be gold standard. Everyone has followed some of their designs in different ways and now we have great foils. What a time to be alive

Select to expand quote

kiwiupover said..

eppo said..
Armstrong were lacking an easy to use foil for prone/ Sup surfing for pump and link and also winging for really heavy riders.

Recommendations for me? No demos in my area so doing this all online :-) Using the MA1225 and 1750 winging... at 100kegs fully loaded, i need to use my MA1750 to get decent glide on .5-1m soft waves. But it's really unpleasant if the wind is over 15mph and there's any chop in the water, plus it turns pretty slowly. On the MA1225, it's great blasting through chop up to 25mph windy days, but I find it REALLY difficult to get any glide on waves with the MA1225 (with 205 tail) if it's less than 1m and doesn't have some decent power in the wave. Plus the MA1225 bucks quite a lot in the chop when it's over 25mph winds and powered up. The MA1225 handles speed dropping down waves and breaching great, but i just can't seem to get any reliable glide to be able to flag out.
1) Thinking of adding a smaller foil for the 20-35mph windy days, and also want some decent glide for any waves. HA880?
2) For 15-25 mph days with any wave action, HA 1080?
Cheers!

I think the 880/1080 combo would be a good call for you. Also consider getting a 180 stab to try with your MAs. It should get you an extra 1..2.. count before needing to power up, especially if adding blue or red shim.

Select to expand quote

kiwiupover said..

eppo said..
Armstrong were lacking an easy to use foil for prone/ Sup surfing for pump and link and also winging for really heavy riders.

Recommendations for me? No demos in my area so doing this all online :-) Using the MA1225 and 1750 winging... at 100kegs fully loaded, i need to use my MA1750 to get decent glide on .5-1m soft waves. But it's really unpleasant if the wind is over 15mph and there's any chop in the water, plus it turns pretty slowly. On the MA1225, it's great blasting through chop up to 25mph windy days, but I find it REALLY difficult to get any glide on waves with the MA1225 (with 205 tail) if it's less than 1m and doesn't have some decent power in the wave. Plus the MA1225 bucks quite a lot in the chop when it's over 25mph winds and powered up. The MA1225 handles speed dropping down waves and breaching great, but i just can't seem to get any reliable glide to be able to flag out.
1) Thinking of adding a smaller foil for the 20-35mph windy days, and also want some decent glide for any waves. HA880?
2) For 15-25 mph days with any wave action, HA 1080?
Cheers!

Always a bit tricky as many variables to consider. The MA1475 could be the answer if looking for potential increased glide/lift, or possibly going up to the 235 flow tail. I find that with the MA1225 the red shim works best for me, to smooth the ride with less "buck" feeling. Placement of the mast in the track can give a slightly different feeling/performance. If looking at the HA v2 and wanting that extra glide over the MA, then the 1080 or possibly 1180 could be the ticket. The HA980 might be the better choice for the higher winds over the 880ha for your weight.

Select to expand quote

IWB said..

kiwiupover said..

eppo said..
Armstrong were lacking an easy to use foil for prone/ Sup surfing for pump and link and also winging for really heavy riders.

Recommendations for me? No demos in my area so doing this all online :-) Using the MA1225 and 1750 winging... at 100kegs fully loaded, i need to use my MA1750 to get decent glide on .5-1m soft waves. But it's really unpleasant if the wind is over 15mph and there's any chop in the water, plus it turns pretty slowly. On the MA1225, it's great blasting through chop up to 25mph windy days, but I find it REALLY difficult to get any glide on waves with the MA1225 (with 205 tail) if it's less than 1m and doesn't have some decent power in the wave. Plus the MA1225 bucks quite a lot in the chop when it's over 25mph winds and powered up. The MA1225 handles speed dropping down waves and breaching great, but i just can't seem to get any reliable glide to be able to flag out.
1) Thinking of adding a smaller foil for the 20-35mph windy days, and also want some decent glide for any waves. HA880?
2) For 15-25 mph days with any wave action, HA 1080?
Cheers!

Always a bit tricky as many variables to consider. The MA1475 could be the answer if looking for potential increased glide/lift, or possibly going up to the 235 flow tail. I find that with the MA1225 the red shim works best for me, to smooth the ride with less "buck" feeling. Placement of the mast in the track can give a slightly different feeling/performance. If looking at the HA v2 and wanting that extra glide over the MA, then the 1080 or possibly 1180 could be the ticket. The HA980 might be the better choice for the higher winds over the 880ha for your weight.

How heavy are you.those are very large foils. With the new HAs you can ride smaller. I only tried a proto 680 and was blown away, I was riding my 925 with just enough wind when I demoed the 680. The 680 has similar lift, and it's way easier to ride. I am 90kg.I will wait for the 780, sounds like a quiver killer and maybe a 1080 for sup foiling in the surf and light wind winging.

Select to expand quote

MidAtlanticFoil said..

kiwiupover said..

eppo said..
Armstrong were lacking an easy to use foil for prone/ Sup surfing for pump and link and also winging for really heavy riders.

Recommendations for me? No demos in my area so doing this all online :-) Using the MA1225 and 1750 winging... at 100kegs fully loaded, i need to use my MA1750 to get decent glide on .5-1m soft waves. But it's really unpleasant if the wind is over 15mph and there's any chop in the water, plus it turns pretty slowly. On the MA1225, it's great blasting through chop up to 25mph windy days, but I find it REALLY difficult to get any glide on waves with the MA1225 (with 205 tail) if it's less than 1m and doesn't have some decent power in the wave. Plus the MA1225 bucks quite a lot in the chop when it's over 25mph winds and powered up. The MA1225 handles speed dropping down waves and breaching great, but i just can't seem to get any reliable glide to be able to flag out.
1) Thinking of adding a smaller foil for the 20-35mph windy days, and also want some decent glide for any waves. HA880?
2) For 15-25 mph days with any wave action, HA 1080?
Cheers!

I think the 880/1080 combo would be a good call for you. Also consider getting a 180 stab to try with your MAs. It should get you an extra 1..2.. count before needing to power up, especially if adding blue or red shim.

Agreed on the tail. infact that's the first thing i'd get and check before i'd outlay any big money. The 205 is a good surfy type tail, helps foil roll well rail to rail - but it's terrible for glide. Quicker tail like the 180 with a red or blue shim will do wonders for your 1225. which by the way can glide well with the right tail. Even the 220 be better than that 205 - you are probably well under tailed really at your weight and for what you are after.

Not sure i'd go any bigger than the 1080 for only winging even at your weight. already has a decent wing span and as said above they can be ridden smaller than you think. The Mas are still hard to beat purely for winging but you will get far more glide on this than any MA wing.

Select to expand quote

bolocom said..

IWB said..

kiwiupover said..

eppo said..
Armstrong were lacking an easy to use foil for prone/ Sup surfing for pump and link and also winging for really heavy riders.

Recommendations for me? No demos in my area so doing this all online :-) Using the MA1225 and 1750 winging... at 100kegs fully loaded, i need to use my MA1750 to get decent glide on .5-1m soft waves. But it's really unpleasant if the wind is over 15mph and there's any chop in the water, plus it turns pretty slowly. On the MA1225, it's great blasting through chop up to 25mph windy days, but I find it REALLY difficult to get any glide on waves with the MA1225 (with 205 tail) if it's less than 1m and doesn't have some decent power in the wave. Plus the MA1225 bucks quite a lot in the chop when it's over 25mph winds and powered up. The MA1225 handles speed dropping down waves and breaching great, but i just can't seem to get any reliable glide to be able to flag out.
1) Thinking of adding a smaller foil for the 20-35mph windy days, and also want some decent glide for any waves. HA880?
2) For 15-25 mph days with any wave action, HA 1080?
Cheers!

Always a bit tricky as many variables to consider. The MA1475 could be the answer if looking for potential increased glide/lift, or possibly going up to the 235 flow tail. I find that with the MA1225 the red shim works best for me, to smooth the ride with less "buck" feeling. Placement of the mast in the track can give a slightly different feeling/performance. If looking at the HA v2 and wanting that extra glide over the MA, then the 1080 or possibly 1180 could be the ticket. The HA980 might be the better choice for the higher winds over the 880ha for your weight.

How heavy are you.those are very large foils. With the new HAs you can ride smaller. I only tried a proto 680 and was blown away, I was riding my 925 with just enough wind when I demoed the 680. The 680 has similar lift, and it's way easier to ride. I am 90kg.I will wait for the 780, sounds like a quiver killer and maybe a 1080 for sup foiling in the surf and light wind winging.

100kg with wetsuit/vest. 6'4" tall. I also ride with the mast on 11 with the MAs. (Used to ride the 1550v2 on 7 I think.) My local is gusty inland lakes so the MA1750 gets used about 30% of sessions in 8-15mph winds with frequent pumping between gusts
I will need to play around with position more - go back to 10 on the powered up days and see if that smoothes things out.

Here's a recent day where I feel the MA1225 +205 tail is overpowered in the chop, and the lighter riders were also able to easily catch some of the smaller reformed waves (when I needed to stay powered up) ?si=WlLvkIPjVexsFx6l

yeh 11 on an FG board seems over kill somewhat. But this could be a function of being well under tailed for such a big wing and being heavy. You are asking a lot from a tail we use to tow with a 800ma at 68/75kg respectively.

honestly man you are on the wrong tail.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
yeh 11 on an FG board seems over kill somewhat. But this could be a function of being well under tailed for such a big wing and being heavy. You are asking a lot from a tail we use to tow with a 800ma at 68/75kg respectively.

honestly man you are on the wrong tail.

So go with a bigger tail? Or a smaller and faster tail like the 180?

Select to expand quote

kiwiupover said..

eppo said..
yeh 11 on an FG board seems over kill somewhat. But this could be a function of being well under tailed for such a big wing and being heavy. You are asking a lot from a tail we use to tow with a 800ma at 68/75kg respectively.

honestly man you are on the wrong tail.

So go with a bigger tail? Or a smaller and faster tail like the 180?

180 is great all rounder. I prefer the 140 but at your weight 180 will be probably better. I didn't find much difference getting up on the 140 vs 180 or even 195. Smaller you go feels faster and loser.

Select to expand quote

kiwiupover said..

eppo said..
yeh 11 on an FG board seems over kill somewhat. But this could be a function of being well under tailed for such a big wing and being heavy. You are asking a lot from a tail we use to tow with a 800ma at 68/75kg respectively.

honestly man you are on the wrong tail.

So go with a bigger tail? Or a smaller and faster tail like the 180?

Cool vid to see of you out there and to get a brief idea of your riding style and conditions. Looks fun. I would definitely try the larger tail like the 235 Flow as Eppo mentioned. What shim are you using... blue or red? Depending on shim can determine mast placement. What mast are you using.. performance or standard? If using the standard mast, i would definitely encourage you to try the Performance mast. The speed at which you ride can also change the perception of the foil. Possibly aiming to increase board speed slightly if using smaller stab 205. Also as mentioned you could try if possible the MA1475 as this will allow you to cruise at slower speeds and catch more of those smaller bumps. There is always a trade off going with bigger or smaller foils and finding what works with your weight, conditions and riding style, can take a bit of time to dial in. For more glide to catch the small bumps (the lighter riders are riding) the HA v2 like 1180 or 1080 could be the answer.

Select to expand quote

IWB said..

kiwiupover said..

eppo said..
yeh 11 on an FG board seems over kill somewhat. But this could be a function of being well under tailed for such a big wing and being heavy. You are asking a lot from a tail we use to tow with a 800ma at 68/75kg respectively.

honestly man you are on the wrong tail.

So go with a bigger tail? Or a smaller and faster tail like the 180?

Cool vid to see of you out there and to get a brief idea of your riding style and conditions. Looks fun. I would definitely try the larger tail like the 235 Flow as Eppo mentioned. What shim are you using... blue or red? Depending on shim can determine mast placement. What mast are you using.. performance or standard? If using the standard mast, i would definitely encourage you to try the Performance mast. The speed at which you ride can also change the perception of the foil. Possibly aiming to increase board speed slightly if using smaller stab 205. Also as mentioned you could try if possible the MA1475 as this will allow you to cruise at slower speeds and catch more of those smaller bumps. There is always a trade off going with bigger or smaller foils and finding what works with your weight, conditions and riding style, can take a bit of time to dial in. For more glide to catch the small bumps (the lighter riders are riding) the HA v2 like 1180 or 1080 could be the answer.

Thanks all. Using the Perf mast 935. Was using the 235 with a blue shim for both the 1225 and 1750. With the MAs I started around 7 on the board and kept going forwards until 10.5/11 which felt best for me. Didn't change once I put in the blue shim. No change when I went to the 205 tail except that the 1750 doesn't turn as good. I'll use the 235 with the 1750.

Hi Kiwiupover,

100kg rider here. I am using the MA1225 with 235and red shim in all conditions from 12-40knts. I am just back from my third ride with the HA880. It is really cool and easy to ride with the same tail. The glide and pumping is great, now I need to test a 180 tail. For higher winds, I would even go a size smaller and get a 980 to replace my MA1225.

David

First wing sesh on the HA1080/140 at 65kgs with a 85L DW board, 3.5M in 14-18knts in a river with a good fetch and choppy / semi organized bay conditions. First went out on the 880, but wind was a bit up/down so I grabbed the bigger bro.

I would place this wing between the 1125 and 1325 in terms of lift, except it has a drastically lower stall speed than both (and earlier lift off). The turning felt between an 1125 and 925, actually maybe like a 925, except it could gybe off a swell, then drive up to the top and turn back down with hardly any speed left and just accelerate right on its way. Down winging in the bay conditions felt intensely easy. Like light years ahead of the v1 HAs for those type conditions. I didn't stall out once the entire session. Felt like magic.


On gybes/cutbacks, it dipped easy and really felt locked in and seemed to accelerate through the turn, really felt it in the quads. Crusing back upwind while harnessed in, hiked over felt very nice. Felt quick enough to where I didn't feel like there was a ton of drag causing stress on the 3.5M. Felt just right!


I'm very happy to have sold my MA1750 and replace with this 1080. I think it will be a better 2nd stepping stone from the pump foil when I pick up the paddle.

Nice review of the 1080. Just got mine. It has a ton of very interesting design aspects that are so different from most foils I've seen and I'm surprised there's not much discussion around how different the camber, sections, and trailing edge are from other foils (especially within the Armie line). I replaced my ma1475 with the HA1080 for SUP foiling and DW in smaller swell. Dying to ride it! Really hoping the hype around the pumping and other attributes is accurate! 1475 was fun but I didn't love the bottom turn feel despite the cutback feeling quite good for a big foil. Speed was quite good too. Comparing the 1080 to the 1475, it is mind boggling that I should get similar use from the 1080! It looks tiny next to the 1475.

1st go winging on the HA1080 for an hour. Insane low end. As in WTF?! Better than my MA1475 and that foil had very good low end as well. Was able to pump a 3m with it at 90 kg in 12 knot lulls on the DW board shockingly. With the smallest forward speed the foil was lifting like an APF foil. Turns are still good though not as sharp or "rippey" as a MA1225 or MA1000, though maybe I'll get there as I get used to it. Glide is really, really good. But the ingredient I've been missing most is a wave-oriented foil that will still pump. We all know by now that Army foils have not been the easiest to pump for the average rider, but it looks like the pump aspect has been fully fixed as others have reported. Feels like a mini-trampoline compared to previous Army foils. The feel of a platform to push off feels so much better than the previous HAs which only felt that way if you were going damned fast while pumping. Top end seems pretty good; not blazing fast but far from slow, though I was no where near fully powered on my 3M, and was often barely gliding through big lulls. Stall speed is ultra-low which is fantastic. Tip breaches seemed pretty good too. Super smooth and steady through the water. Stoked for a first ride! Can't wait to surf it. Some stats below, bearing in mind i was never powered up and the wind just kept getting lighter through my hour session but the wind swell was decent 3-4'. I was no where near the top end of this foil of course, but not bad considering the light conditions:

Max 20.1 knots (37.3 km/h) Max 100m 19.6 knots (36.3 km/h) Max 250m 15.6 knots (28.9km/h) Max 500m 14.1 knots (26.2km/h) Max 2s 19.9 knots (36.9km/h) Max 10s 19.6 knots (36.3 km/h)

KT Dragonfly 77, 3M KT DD wing, 60 fuse, Dart tail, no shim, Performance 795 mast 12-17 knots

nice in depth review of the 880..

For those not wanting to read a long post: I will be using a 880 in place of my 1125 as it pumps that easy and glides well enough and has a higher top speed. All while having the carve feel of smaller 725/925 wings. And ease of use and stability of a HS1250/CF950. It's as loose as an MA1000 without being a terrible MA ???????.

Might be a long read, butttt. BIG shoutout Jonathan Wilson from Foilhub! He was givin me a heads up about the new HAs and tellin me to order one. I've NEVER bought new gear. I just wait a year for used stuff. But he knows the waves I surf and recommended a HA880. Was great to have his experience recommending a wing and getting my order in quick.

10/10 recommend. It's very user friendly, doesn't stall, breaches well, I hit top speeds I haven't seen before, I carved comfortably, and I was harnessing waves normally only 1125/925 does. It's definitely the best improvement and all around wing I've seen from Armstrong so far. I tried the CF, new CF, HS, MA (???), HA, new HA, and it's like it has the best features of all those wings.

Now for the long part.

I live on O'ahu and surf mushy/weak waves in Ewa Beach almost every day year round. My go-to is a HS1250, HA1125 or HA925. HA725 if I wanna hate life but the waves are better.

So here's my view on the current wings:
-HS1250: great low speed lift. Great carving. Enough top end to make sections. Impossible to stall. It's just a comfy wing and user friendly. Doesn't breach too well. I usually crash.
-HA1125: perfect low speed take-off. Amazing glide. You can harness 3" bumps and just fly across em. It's hard to stall the 1125. It's a little hard to turn and it's a little slow. 50 fuse helped it turn but banking turns hard, it's sketchy. It breaches well and is perfect for **** waves. Easy to overpower in bigger surf/lift spike.
-HA925: I rode the 925 for well over a year and loved it til it was stolen. Only reason I stopped using it. It needs speed to take off but kicks up in mushy waves. It carves very well. It has some solid glide. It connects waves easily. It has amazing top speed to go from one shoulder to the next and make any section you want.
HA725: **** that wing. At least in small waves. It slashes turns like nobodies business. But damn. Any little mistake and it stalls. It's fast and loose, but I can't recommend it for small waves and inexperienced foilers. It's just a bad day. Fun, but just too difficult.
MA1000: **** that wing too. Nawh, It turns well. It has low speed lift. Doesn't glide all that well. I just need more time on it to decide. But after 3 session, I just don't like it. Gonna try more.

HA880: it has such low speed lift I was coming up on foil and missing waves. Just scooted forward and got on my feet earlier. This makes small wave surfing so easy. The old HA you need perfect timing and need speed to get up. If you messed up the pop-up, game over. This new wing pops up so well. It came up down low like my 1125/1250. I could casually toss it into turns like a MA or CF wing. Just feels natural to surf it. This wing refuses to stall. I was pumping up wind and crashed into some swell and surfaced my board. I jumped up and got back up and going. My nose was underwater ??. The glide. I am cruising across waves that my 925/1125 harness. It's soooo good. The pump, feels like HS1250 with heavy front foot pressure. 880 needs Faster cadence like a HA925. But it just doesn't stall. You have time for mistakes and pauses and it keeps going. You can jump/pump it too hard and recover. The 725, if you can get too front heavy or sideways, you're going down. Also, my front leg was shaking after this session. I've nerve had that with the 725/925/1125. I've always had a weak and shaky back leg.

By far my favorite wing so far. I went out in garbage conditions and only caught 3 waves in an hour. My camera died before the longest and best rides at the end of the session. But it was an easy 2 minute ride and I had to stop because there just wasn't any waves to ride. I pumped far out and had nothing to connect. With the new mast and some proper cardio, this 880 is an absolute weapon.

Happy New Year! Hope this review helps people get a feel for what this wing does and if it's right for them. I ride a 28L 4' board. I weigh 150lbs. I use a 72cm first gen mast, 60 or 50cm fuselage, and lately the Surf 205 tail. I will have more experience with different tails and some stronger GPS data in the future.

Here's my $0.02. 170 lb SUPer on 96L Armstrong DW board. Intermediate skills over 40. I've had and sold the CF/HS range and the HA925/1325, demoed the other larger HA's. Currently have the MA800/1225/1750 and the smaller APF. Use a 60 fuse and 205 or 220 tail. typically riding the 1750 or APF in small weak wind driven bay waves. Shift to the 1225 when it gets decent.

Was targeting the new HA1180, to slot between 1225 and 1750, but after reading initial reviews, and local shop only having the 1080 I picked up the 1080. I think it does that and may replace my 1225.

Ive had a few sessions with it, and while not a comprehensive in depth experience I've been able to get settled in its comfort zone and had both crap waves and a decent day tallying over 1 mile on foil according to my watch.

It has a lower stall speed than all the MA's and prior HA's but save the 1750 +\- which is comparable and is only slightly higher than the APF. Watch kept me on foil at around 6ish kts; the old HA's needed closer to 8-10, MA 7-9.
Lift is progressive and controllable, and feels stronger than the 1225, but less impacted by wave energy surge (ie Id get overpowered on the 1225 on occasion, I didn't experience the same with the 1080.though this is primarily a surface area issue it's relevant to the ability to downsize). Acceleration and glide are similar to the 1325 though slightly less and better than the 1225. I've been able to keep up with small swell that I'd fall behind on with the APF or 1750. Difference is I couldn't get up on foil on the 1325 or would stall out, this takes substantially less effort. None of the sketchy twitchy moods of the old HA's, not as turny as the 925, I'd say similar to the 1225. I'd expect the v-tail (I previously loved) or newer smaller tails would open her up. Hope to give the V a go with it, but it didn't play well with the MA's, so I'll need to dig it out of the box. Similar immediate comfort of the 1225. Im a terrible pumper, but can see more of the light on this and is closer in ease of use to the APF than the MA.

Breach recover seams good, not quite as good as the 1225, but better than any others.

I wouldn't go so far as to use the term as game changer; though it certainly is compared to older generations; but it's a natural progression of their existing new lines. It gives the lift and glide the MA's lacked, and the stability and predictability of the MA's that the old HA's lacked. In the end it's exactly what I was looking for and had been hoping for in every prior upgrade that left me frustrated.

Select to expand quote

wanabxtrm said..

I wouldn't go so far as to use the term as game changer; though it certainly is compared to older generations; but it's a natural progression of their existing new lines. It gives the lift and glide the MA's lacked, and the stability and predictability of the MA's that the old HA's lacked. In the end it's exactly what I was looking for and had been hoping for in every prior upgrade that left me frustrated.

I'd echo most of what wanabxtrm wrote. I don't think I'll use the 1080 as a wing foil much but for surfing it's SO good. I think I prefer the 1225 MA for winging as it turns harder and breaches a little better. Just wrapped up a session in waist to shoulder high surf this morning and got a 2 for one in long period swell right away due to the easy pumping. Still dialling in the technique but the new HA doesn't punish you for stuffing up the pump as badly. Very happy I didn't go for the 1180; the 1080 has enough low end for sure and it still turns very well with incredible drive and glide.

880 magic !!!

81kg / 795 / 60 fuse / 180 and 140 tails red and blue shim.

5 Sessions now on the 880 now, only winging so far as recovering from knee
surgery, no proning as yet.

Winging a flat coastal then wave day I did find it a bit of a handful at times at full speed. As some have said it's a tad like a 1225. But carving on an actual wave it was magic especially with the dart. Would prefer a 680/780. But still fun and doable.

But yesterday first DW - 20km in 20-25 with decent sized bumps using the dart and blue shim it was outrageously good!! Just the right amount of speed and glide to use small bumps to hop and bop onto large bumps - and on the large bumps one could use the entire bump to carve rather than put run it like sometimes on the 925.

On the real large bumps it had amazing pitch stability - zero silly old HA stuff happening. And man does it carve!! You could carve it real hard to gather speed and power to link the next section at will.

When i found myself in a no bump hollow or falling off back of a large swell could pump it at will to find the next pump. Not once did i stall out. Effortless pump with almost stand still stall speed at times.

The only time i touched the wing in 20km was because my cardio was cooked from being off the water so long or waiting for other slow pokes on other gear.

Just the perfect blend of glide, speed, carve and pumping prowess with such impeccable stability and carve prowess. How the hell they got this foil to do all of that is beyond me!?

And man that 880 for DW winging pairs so well with the dart - amazing such a small tail works with a wing that big. I swear it has more glide and pump than with the 180?

In the meantime next to me was a guy DW paddling on his 7'2 armie board with the same 880! How does that work!!! ?

What an outrageously amazing foil.

ps and the 4m xps . damn good flagging wing. The best. So light and balanced on the flag. Can throw it around like a rag doll.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
880 magic !!!

81kg / 795 / 60 fuse / 180 and 140 tails red and blue shim.

5 Sessions now on the 880 now, only winging so far as recovering from knee
surgery, no proning as yet.

Winging a flat coastal then wave day I did find it a bit of a handful at times at full speed. As some have said it's a tad like a 1225. But carving on an actual wave it was magic especially with the dart. Would prefer a 680/780. But still fun and doable.

But yesterday first DW - 20km in 20-25 with decent sized bumps using the dart and blue shim it was outrageously good!! Just the right amount of speed and glide to use small bumps to hop and bop onto large bumps - and on the large bumps one could use the entire bump to carve rather than put run it like sometimes on the 925.

On the real large bumps it had amazing pitch stability - zero silly old HA stuff happening. And man does it carve!! You could carve it real hard to gather speed and power to link the next section at will.

When i found myself in a no bump hollow or falling off back of a large swell could pump it at will to find the next pump. Not once did i stall out. Effortless pump with almost stand still stall speed at times.

The only time i touched the wing in 20km was because my cardio was cooked from being off the water so long or waiting for other slow pokes on other gear.

Just the perfect blend of glide, speed, carve and pumping prowess with such impeccable stability and carve prowess. How the hell they got this foil to do all of that is beyond me!?

And man that 880 for DW winging pairs so well with the dart - amazing such a small tail works with a wing that big. I swear it has more glide and pump than with the 180?

In the meantime next to me was a guy DW paddling on his 7'2 armie board with the same 880! How does that work!!! ?

What an outrageously amazing foil.

ps and the 4m xps . damn good flagging wing. The best. So light and balanced on the flag. Can throw it around like a rag doll.

Sounds amazing, based on your comments I think I will wait for the 780 for winging and maybe the 1080 for Sup foiling in the surf. I am a bit heavier at 88kg and over 90 in the winter gear. I am currently on 925/725 but don't like the 925 for sup foiling

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
880 magic !!!

81kg / 795 / 60 fuse / 180 and 140 tails red and blue shim.

5 Sessions now on the 880 now, only winging so far as recovering from knee
surgery, no proning as yet.

Winging a flat coastal then wave day I did find it a bit of a handful at times at full speed. As some have said it's a tad like a 1225. But carving on an actual wave it was magic especially with the dart. Would prefer a 680/780. But still fun and doable.

But yesterday first DW - 20km in 20-25 with decent sized bumps using the dart and blue shim it was outrageously good!! Just the right amount of speed and glide to use small bumps to hop and bop onto large bumps - and on the large bumps one could use the entire bump to carve rather than put run it like sometimes on the 925.

On the real large bumps it had amazing pitch stability - zero silly old HA stuff happening. And man does it carve!! You could carve it real hard to gather speed and power to link the next section at will.

When i found myself in a no bump hollow or falling off back of a large swell could pump it at will to find the next pump. Not once did i stall out. Effortless pump with almost stand still stall speed at times.

The only time i touched the wing in 20km was because my cardio was cooked from being off the water so long or waiting for other slow pokes on other gear.

Just the perfect blend of glide, speed, carve and pumping prowess with such impeccable stability and carve prowess. How the hell they got this foil to do all of that is beyond me!?

And man that 880 for DW winging pairs so well with the dart - amazing such a small tail works with a wing that big. I swear it has more glide and pump than with the 180?

In the meantime next to me was a guy DW paddling on his 7'2 armie board with the same 880! How does that work!!! ?

What an outrageously amazing foil.

ps and the 4m xps . damn good flagging wing. The best. So light and balanced on the flag. Can throw it around like a rag doll.

Sounds amazing, based on your comments I think I will wait for the 780 for winging and maybe the 1080 for Sup foiling in the surf. I am a bit heavier at 88kg and over 90 in the winter gear. I am currently on 925/725 but don't like the 925 for sup foiling

Select to expand quote

bolocom said..

eppo said..
880 magic !!!

81kg / 795 / 60 fuse / 180 and 140 tails red and blue shim.

5 Sessions now on the 880 now, only winging so far as recovering from knee
surgery, no proning as yet.

Winging a flat coastal then wave day I did find it a bit of a handful at times at full speed. As some have said it's a tad like a 1225. But carving on an actual wave it was magic especially with the dart. Would prefer a 680/780. But still fun and doable.

But yesterday first DW - 20km in 20-25 with decent sized bumps using the dart and blue shim it was outrageously good!! Just the right amount of speed and glide to use small bumps to hop and bop onto large bumps - and on the large bumps one could use the entire bump to carve rather than put run it like sometimes on the 925.

On the real large bumps it had amazing pitch stability - zero silly old HA stuff happening. And man does it carve!! You could carve it real hard to gather speed and power to link the next section at will.

When i found myself in a no bump hollow or falling off back of a large swell could pump it at will to find the next pump. Not once did i stall out. Effortless pump with almost stand still stall speed at times.

The only time i touched the wing in 20km was because my cardio was cooked from being off the water so long or waiting for other slow pokes on other gear.

Just the perfect blend of glide, speed, carve and pumping prowess with such impeccable stability and carve prowess. How the hell they got this foil to do all of that is beyond me!?

And man that 880 for DW winging pairs so well with the dart - amazing such a small tail works with a wing that big. I swear it has more glide and pump than with the 180?

In the meantime next to me was a guy DW paddling on his 7'2 armie board with the same 880! How does that work!!! ?

What an outrageously amazing foil.

ps and the 4m xps . damn good flagging wing. The best. So light and balanced on the flag. Can throw it around like a rag doll.

Sounds amazing, based on your comments I think I will wait for the 780 for winging and maybe the 1080 for Sup foiling in the surf. I am a bit heavier at 88kg and over 90 in the winter gear. I am currently on 925/725 but don't like the 925 for sup foiling

the local guy here (best rider) uses the 880 to sup surf and for DW (he's the guy i mentioned above) and the 1080 to DW in lighter winds and he's like 80kg. if that helps. The wing span of the 1180 is getting a little wide for Sup surf i recon. depends i suppose.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..
nice in depth review of the 880..

-HA1125: perfect low speed take-off. Amazing glide. You can harness 3" bumps and just fly across em. It's hard to stall the 1125. It's a little hard to turn and it's a little slow. 50 fuse helped it turn but banking turns hard, it's sketchy. It breaches well and is perfect for **** waves. Easy to overpower in bigger surf/lift spike.
-HA925: I rode the 925 for well over a year and loved it til it was stolen. Only reason I stopped using it. It needs speed to take off but kicks up in mushy waves. It carves very well. It has some solid glide. It connects waves easily. It has amazing top speed to go from one shoulder to the next and make any section you want.
HA725: **** that wing. At least in small waves. It slashes turns like nobodies business. But damn. Any little mistake and it stalls. It's fast and loose, but I can't recommend it for small waves and inexperienced foilers. It's just a bad day. Fun, but just too difficult.

Thanks eppo this was handy to me as that's my current quiver, 1125/925/725, and agree entirely with the summary!

Still not clear to me if the HA880 replaces any of these wings if you can ride them comfortably already? Can it replace the 1125?

Select to expand quote

CH3MTR4IL5 said..

eppo said..
nice in depth review of the 880..

-HA1125: perfect low speed take-off. Amazing glide. You can harness 3" bumps and just fly across em. It's hard to stall the 1125. It's a little hard to turn and it's a little slow. 50 fuse helped it turn but banking turns hard, it's sketchy. It breaches well and is perfect for **** waves. Easy to overpower in bigger surf/lift spike.
-HA925: I rode the 925 for well over a year and loved it til it was stolen. Only reason I stopped using it. It needs speed to take off but kicks up in mushy waves. It carves very well. It has some solid glide. It connects waves easily. It has amazing top speed to go from one shoulder to the next and make any section you want.
HA725: **** that wing. At least in small waves. It slashes turns like nobodies business. But damn. Any little mistake and it stalls. It's fast and loose, but I can't recommend it for small waves and inexperienced foilers. It's just a bad day. Fun, but just too difficult.

Thanks eppo this was handy to me as that's my current quiver, 1125/925/725, and agree entirely with the summary!

Still not clear to me if the HA880 replaces any of these wings if you can ride them comfortably already? Can it replace the 1125?

I have the same quiver 1125/925/725 as you and at 80kg the 880 replaces the 1125/925 for me . It's like a 925 and 1/3 I recon ,but it pumps and turns so much better than either of those 2.The 725 would still be faster though for sure.