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BZRider said..
What's the best Armie tail for learning to paddle up on SUP with the 1180/795/60 setup? Priority right now is to get lifted and foiling in wind swell. Have the 235 and 140 right now.

As Eppo said, I loved the 220 when starting my DW journey and still do in marginal conditions.The 235 is definitely a bit slower but I love it in the surf on the new HA's, had it with the 880and 780 one day and it blew my mind how fun it was.

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Wingman WA said..

BZRider said..
What's the best Armie tail for learning to paddle up on SUP with the 1180/795/60 setup? Priority right now is to get lifted and foiling in wind swell. Have the 235 and 140 right now.

As Eppo said, I loved the 220 when starting my DW journey and still do in marginal conditions.The 235 is definitely a bit slower but I love it in the surf on the new HA's, had it with the 880and 780 one day and it blew my mind how fun it was.

Well, I've done a chop shop v2 on the 232.
paired it with the ha780 (85kg rider) in 6knots
its an amazing low-end tail day thing
www.facebook.com/share/p/DXbfZVMV74Z1qPkX/?mibextid=WC7FNe

Another video with the 780 in nuking conditions - it really is a 1 foil quiver!! 45 knots gusts, and absolutely awesome session ????

?si=tSI9k4UNd-TQEGh7

I've been riding the 1080 and 680 a ton lately and reluctantly ended up selling my well-loved MA1000 to help fund another HA for this summer (880). But I hopped back on the MA1225/180 tail yesterday in 4' windswell and 20-30+knots and DW board and it was a complete blast for turning and banking off swell. My 680 is covering the medium to high wind part of the scale easily and is so surfy and playful, but the MAs still ride beautifully. The MA lack of solid pump platform is really highlighted now for me after riding the new HAs, but for winging the MAs are so damned good. I feel like the new HA has taught me how to get even more out of the MA as the MA is so tolerant to breaching and fast direction changes. I guess what I'm saying is that the new HAs are great but the MA is far from outdated. Super curious to see if the MA V2 (whenever they get released) will incorporate more of the reflex curve of the HA next round?

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Windoc said..
I've been riding the 1080 and 680 a ton lately and reluctantly ended up selling my well-loved MA1000 to help fund another HA for this summer (880). But I hopped back on the MA1225/180 tail yesterday in 4' windswell and 20-30+knots and DW board and it was a complete blast for turning and banking off swell. My 680 is covering the medium to high wind part of the scale easily and is so surfy and playful, but the MAs still ride beautifully. The MA lack of solid pump platform is really highlighted now for me after riding the new HAs, but for winging the MAs are so damned good. I feel like the new HA has taught me how to get even more out of the MA as the MA is so tolerant to breaching and fast direction changes. I guess what I'm saying is that the new HAs are great but the MA is far from outdated. Super curious to see if the MA V2 (whenever they get released) will incorporate more of the reflex curve of the HA next round?

You'd hope so hey. But there is always a compromise in design and its related performance in the end.

Eppo... I was wondering if you could get some insight into something for me from your son. Im racing the M2O this year in the wing category and currently planning to use either the 680 or 580 (depending on wind) with the 180 tail. I'm wondering about what I can do that might give me a little more speed specifically related to either front wing or stab?

I'm wondering which of these options will give the biggest ROI
-more shim on current set up
-140 dart tail with current set up
-see if I can convince a friend to loan me his 685

Thanks!!!

Select to expand quote

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Eppo... I was wondering if you could get some insight into something for me from your son. Im racing the M2O this year in the wing category and currently planning to use either the 680 or 580 (depending on wind) with the 180 tail. I'm wondering about what I can do that might give me a little more speed specifically related to either front wing or stab?

I'm wondering which of these options will give the biggest ROI
-more shim on current set up
-140 dart tail with current set up
-see if I can convince a friend to loan me his 685

Thanks!!!

Will ask him and a few others like Aiden and Oskar. In the meantime post this question on the armstrong facebook page as well (if you are not on it i can for you?) as plenty of informed crew on there. Good luck man you are gonna have a blast!

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Oahuwaterwalker said..
Eppo... I was wondering if you could get some insight into something for me from your son. Im racing the M2O this year in the wing category and currently planning to use either the 680 or 580 (depending on wind) with the 180 tail. I'm wondering about what I can do that might give me a little more speed specifically related to either front wing or stab?

I'm wondering which of these options will give the biggest ROI
-more shim on current set up
-140 dart tail with current set up
-see if I can convince a friend to loan me his 685

Thanks!!!

So .. the brains trust have reported back .

685 is a no go. Too much span for winging the crossing - it's not flat at all out there.

Actually the 625Ma is probably your best bet - 180 with a red shim.

If you can get some training in then it's worth dialing the 140 dart in with same shim. Be quicker but also you do lose some pitch control.

If you can't get hold of a 625MA then the 580 as the 680 is too slow overall for that race.

They all asked where you are based ? They said get some training in some solid swell downwind as that is what you will be facing.

Learn to be in control when you have very little.

Hope that helps.

Eppo

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eppo said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Eppo... I was wondering if you could get some insight into something for me from your son. Im racing the M2O this year in the wing category and currently planning to use either the 680 or 580 (depending on wind) with the 180 tail. I'm wondering about what I can do that might give me a little more speed specifically related to either front wing or stab?

I'm wondering which of these options will give the biggest ROI
-more shim on current set up
-140 dart tail with current set up
-see if I can convince a friend to loan me his 685

Thanks!!!

So .. the brains trust have reported back .

685 is a no go. Too much span for winging the crossing - it's not flat at all out there.

Actually the 625Ma is probably your best bet - 180 with a red shim.

If you can get some training in then it's worth dialing the 140 dart in with same shim. Be quicker but also you do lose some pitch control.

If you can't get hold of a 625MA then the 580 as the 680 is too slow overall for that race.

They all asked where you are based ? They said get some training in some solid swell downwind as that is what you will be facing.

Learn to be in control when you have very little.

Hope that helps.

Eppo

Many thanks!

I'm on Oahu. We've started our training and have been trying runs in the deep blue on broad reach in big swell. I'm finding it's almost as much psychological as it is actual skill. Two friends are doing a crossing this weekend, I've got too much going on so I'm skipping this one.

Sounds like the 580 and 140 might be the best option.

Select to expand quote

Oahuwaterwalker said..

eppo said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Eppo... I was wondering if you could get some insight into something for me from your son. Im racing the M2O this year in the wing category and currently planning to use either the 680 or 580 (depending on wind) with the 180 tail. I'm wondering about what I can do that might give me a little more speed specifically related to either front wing or stab?

I'm wondering which of these options will give the biggest ROI
-more shim on current set up
-140 dart tail with current set up
-see if I can convince a friend to loan me his 685

Thanks!!!

So .. the brains trust have reported back .

685 is a no go. Too much span for winging the crossing - it's not flat at all out there.

Actually the 625Ma is probably your best bet - 180 with a red shim.

If you can get some training in then it's worth dialing the 140 dart in with same shim. Be quicker but also you do lose some pitch control.

If you can't get hold of a 625MA then the 580 as the 680 is too slow overall for that race.

They all asked where you are based ? They said get some training in some solid swell downwind as that is what you will be facing.

Learn to be in control when you have very little.

Hope that helps.

Eppo

Many thanks!

I'm on Oahu. We've started our training and have been trying runs in the deep blue on broad reach in big swell. I'm finding it's almost as much psychological as it is actual skill. Two friends are doing a crossing this weekend, I've got too much going on so I'm skipping this one.

Sounds like the 580 and 140 might be the best option.

if you could get hold of a 625Ma with a 140 dart shimmed, a few others like oscar have said the same thing to me now.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..

eppo said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Eppo... I was wondering if you could get some insight into something for me from your son. Im racing the M2O this year in the wing category and currently planning to use either the 680 or 580 (depending on wind) with the 180 tail. I'm wondering about what I can do that might give me a little more speed specifically related to either front wing or stab?

I'm wondering which of these options will give the biggest ROI
-more shim on current set up
-140 dart tail with current set up
-see if I can convince a friend to loan me his 685

Thanks!!!

So .. the brains trust have reported back .

685 is a no go. Too much span for winging the crossing - it's not flat at all out there.

Actually the 625Ma is probably your best bet - 180 with a red shim.

If you can get some training in then it's worth dialing the 140 dart in with same shim. Be quicker but also you do lose some pitch control.

If you can't get hold of a 625MA then the 580 as the 680 is too slow overall for that race.

They all asked where you are based ? They said get some training in some solid swell downwind as that is what you will be facing.

Learn to be in control when you have very little.

Hope that helps.

Eppo

Many thanks!

I'm on Oahu. We've started our training and have been trying runs in the deep blue on broad reach in big swell. I'm finding it's almost as much psychological as it is actual skill. Two friends are doing a crossing this weekend, I've got too much going on so I'm skipping this one.

Sounds like the 580 and 140 might be the best option.

if you could get hold of a 625Ma with a 140 dart shimmed, a few others like oscar have said the same thing to me now.

and lastly mate if you are going to race take all your imperfections out and run over both front and back with some 2000 grit like armie does here ..

?si=-mEBeAhcAbB3oMQg

Select to expand quote

eppo said..

eppo said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..

eppo said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Eppo... I was wondering if you could get some insight into something for me from your son. Im racing the M2O this year in the wing category and currently planning to use either the 680 or 580 (depending on wind) with the 180 tail. I'm wondering about what I can do that might give me a little more speed specifically related to either front wing or stab?

I'm wondering which of these options will give the biggest ROI
-more shim on current set up
-140 dart tail with current set up
-see if I can convince a friend to loan me his 685

Thanks!!!

So .. the brains trust have reported back .

685 is a no go. Too much span for winging the crossing - it's not flat at all out there.

Actually the 625Ma is probably your best bet - 180 with a red shim.

If you can get some training in then it's worth dialing the 140 dart in with same shim. Be quicker but also you do lose some pitch control.

If you can't get hold of a 625MA then the 580 as the 680 is too slow overall for that race.

They all asked where you are based ? They said get some training in some solid swell downwind as that is what you will be facing.

Learn to be in control when you have very little.

Hope that helps.

Eppo

Many thanks!

I'm on Oahu. We've started our training and have been trying runs in the deep blue on broad reach in big swell. I'm finding it's almost as much psychological as it is actual skill. Two friends are doing a crossing this weekend, I've got too much going on so I'm skipping this one.

Sounds like the 580 and 140 might be the best option.

if you could get hold of a 625Ma with a 140 dart shimmed, a few others like oscar have said the same thing to me now.

and lastly mate if you are going to race take all your imperfections out and run over both front and back with some 2000 grit like armie does here ..

?si=-mEBeAhcAbB3oMQg

Really appreciate the pointers!

At my local spot, we ride upwind to break then surf back in and repeat. I hardly ever do broad reach runs, thats changing as the race comes near.

Select to expand quote

Oahuwaterwalker said..

eppo said..

eppo said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..

eppo said..

Oahuwaterwalker said..
Eppo... I was wondering if you could get some insight into something for me from your son. Im racing the M2O this year in the wing category and currently planning to use either the 680 or 580 (depending on wind) with the 180 tail. I'm wondering about what I can do that might give me a little more speed specifically related to either front wing or stab?

I'm wondering which of these options will give the biggest ROI
-more shim on current set up
-140 dart tail with current set up
-see if I can convince a friend to loan me his 685

Thanks!!!

So .. the brains trust have reported back .

685 is a no go. Too much span for winging the crossing - it's not flat at all out there.

Actually the 625Ma is probably your best bet - 180 with a red shim.

If you can get some training in then it's worth dialing the 140 dart in with same shim. Be quicker but also you do lose some pitch control.

If you can't get hold of a 625MA then the 580 as the 680 is too slow overall for that race.

They all asked where you are based ? They said get some training in some solid swell downwind as that is what you will be facing.

Learn to be in control when you have very little.

Hope that helps.

Eppo

Many thanks!

I'm on Oahu. We've started our training and have been trying runs in the deep blue on broad reach in big swell. I'm finding it's almost as much psychological as it is actual skill. Two friends are doing a crossing this weekend, I've got too much going on so I'm skipping this one.

Sounds like the 580 and 140 might be the best option.

if you could get hold of a 625Ma with a 140 dart shimmed, a few others like oscar have said the same thing to me now.

and lastly mate if you are going to race take all your imperfections out and run over both front and back with some 2000 grit like armie does here ..

?si=-mEBeAhcAbB3oMQg

Really appreciate the pointers!

At my local spot, we ride upwind to break then surf back in and repeat. I hardly ever do broad reach runs, thats changing as the race comes near.

Best of luck mate, have a blast. Cool race to be part of.

For what it's worth, I was just in a local wing race event and decided to try out the 580. It was lighter wind, flattish water, and I was running a 7M, mostly broad reaches. It was a surprisingly slow combo. I would have been better off with a 725 or 925 for the race. Maybe the 625 or 800, but the extra glide of the 580 was welcome on light wind gybes.

I'd be curious to know the average speeds the wingers are maintaining for the M2O? Makes sense the MA625 would be the call though; so easy to push all the smaller MAs' top speeds. I find the HA680 pretty quick but need to really focus to push it near the 30 knot range. IMO It would be exhausting if not near impossible to maintain that kind of intensity for a race like this on the new Armstrong HAs.

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MidAtlanticFoil said..
For what it's worth, I was just in a local wing race event and decided to try out the 580. It was lighter wind, flattish water, and I was running a 7M, mostly broad reaches. It was a surprisingly slow combo. I would have been better off with a 725 or 925 for the race. Maybe the 625 or 800, but the extra glide of the 580 was welcome on light wind gybes.

was the wind on the lighter side ? Problem i found with the 725/925 is when the wind was good the instability at high speeds was a factor. But in lighter winds you could access more speed than our trials comparing it with the 625 and 800ma.

what tail and shim were you using on the 580 in the race?

agreed though a 625ma especially in those conditions out back in the m20 race is still the go.

Select to expand quote

eppo said..

MidAtlanticFoil said..
For what it's worth, I was just in a local wing race event and decided to try out the 580. It was lighter wind, flattish water, and I was running a 7M, mostly broad reaches. It was a surprisingly slow combo. I would have been better off with a 725 or 925 for the race. Maybe the 625 or 800, but the extra glide of the 580 was welcome on light wind gybes.

was the wind on the lighter side ? Problem i found with the 725/925 is when the wind was good the instability at high speeds was a factor. But in lighter winds you could access more speed than our trials comparing it with the 625 and 800ma.

what tail and shim were you using on the 580 in the race?

agreed though a 625ma especially in those conditions out back in the m20 race is still the go.

I was running the 140 tail with red shim. The 580 felt a bit squirrely on pitch when at speed going through some of the chop on the broad reaches. After I went through the finish lines or before starts I was ripping turns and loving it. It loves to be on rail. Going straight is not it's strong suit I'd say.

The next day I ran the DWP 930 on a lightwind upwind/downwind race and that performed really well. Race was a true test of wind reading on the course, pumping endurance, and lightwind skill. My buddy ended up with the win on a larger Axis ART Pro I think, as I came off foil on a botched tack (too high and slipped a tip).

Select to expand quote

MidAtlanticFoil said..

eppo said..

MidAtlanticFoil said..
For what it's worth, I was just in a local wing race event and decided to try out the 580. It was lighter wind, flattish water, and I was running a 7M, mostly broad reaches. It was a surprisingly slow combo. I would have been better off with a 725 or 925 for the race. Maybe the 625 or 800, but the extra glide of the 580 was welcome on light wind gybes.

was the wind on the lighter side ? Problem i found with the 725/925 is when the wind was good the instability at high speeds was a factor. But in lighter winds you could access more speed than our trials comparing it with the 625 and 800ma.

what tail and shim were you using on the 580 in the race?

agreed though a 625ma especially in those conditions out back in the m20 race is still the go.

I was running the 140 tail with red shim. The 580 felt a bit squirrely on pitch when at speed going through some of the chop on the broad reaches. After I went through the finish lines or before starts I was ripping turns and loving it. It loves to be on rail. Going straight is not it's strong suit I'd say.

The next day I ran the DWP 930 on a lightwind upwind/downwind race and that performed really well. Race was a true test of wind reading on the course, pumping endurance, and lightwind skill. My buddy ended up with the win on a larger Axis ART Pro I think, as I came off foil on a botched tack (too high and slipped a tip).

Good feedback to consider. I'm leaning toward 580 and 180 with red shim. The red shim does a lot to speed up the 680. For me, the key will be balancing top speed against stability. Going fast and crashing a lot won't do me any good, lol. If the conditions are "typical" for the time of year, it could easily be 20-25 kts with 2-3 meter swell.

Select to expand quote

Oahuwaterwalker said..

MidAtlanticFoil said..

eppo said..

MidAtlanticFoil said..
For what it's worth, I was just in a local wing race event and decided to try out the 580. It was lighter wind, flattish water, and I was running a 7M, mostly broad reaches. It was a surprisingly slow combo. I would have been better off with a 725 or 925 for the race. Maybe the 625 or 800, but the extra glide of the 580 was welcome on light wind gybes.

was the wind on the lighter side ? Problem i found with the 725/925 is when the wind was good the instability at high speeds was a factor. But in lighter winds you could access more speed than our trials comparing it with the 625 and 800ma.

what tail and shim were you using on the 580 in the race?

agreed though a 625ma especially in those conditions out back in the m20 race is still the go.

I was running the 140 tail with red shim. The 580 felt a bit squirrely on pitch when at speed going through some of the chop on the broad reaches. After I went through the finish lines or before starts I was ripping turns and loving it. It loves to be on rail. Going straight is not it's strong suit I'd say.

The next day I ran the DWP 930 on a lightwind upwind/downwind race and that performed really well. Race was a true test of wind reading on the course, pumping endurance, and lightwind skill. My buddy ended up with the win on a larger Axis ART Pro I think, as I came off foil on a botched tack (too high and slipped a tip).

Good feedback to consider. I'm leaning toward 580 and 180 with red shim. The red shim does a lot to speed up the 680. For me, the key will be balancing top speed against stability. Going fast and crashing a lot won't do me any good, lol. If the conditions are "typical" for the time of year, it could easily be 20-25 kts with 2-3 meter swell.

mate one other thing. a few crew have reminded me that a longer say 70 fuse would be really useful to hold greater speeds with control. I know all the race heads use longer fuses.

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mate one other thing. a few crew have reminded me that a longer say 70 fuse would be really useful to hold greater speeds with control. I know all the race heads use longer fuses.

One of my fellow local riders raced last year. I believe he placed 3rd in his division. He reinforced that (at least for us older guys) it's impossible to maintain full speed for the entire race. It's more about doing max speed runs in intervals combined with backing off and giving your body a rest.

He also said its important to pick a foil that you have the best shot of minimal falls. Of course it all depends on the conditions of the day, last year the winds were light, but on a day like I described above, getting up on foil in the middle of the channel could be really challenging. When I've been in those kinds of conditions before (open ocean swell 2-3M+) you need to be able to drop in and get on foil while you drop, can be sketchy and consume a lot of energy. As "the crow flies" it's 32 miles (51km) but it's more likely to be around 36 miles (57km). Energy conservation will be important for me.

I was thinking about starting a thread dedicated to the M20, might be fun to get others chiming in on training, etc. I'm doing a lot of OC1 on light wind days and I'm amazed at what that is doing for upper body strength and endurance (I'm 53).

I see you guys are talking about racing - did my first race the other day with the 780 & 140 tail with red shim. + duotone d/lab 5m unit4. won ;D was pretty light wind and competition wasn't that hard. Don't recommend it buut for a local race it was enough ;D

just a quick update on my impressions of the 780. I originally thought it was very near the 1850 in terms of lift and stability, but i've since downgraded that a bit. perhaps i was just initially out in stronger winds than i recalled, but lately i realize that the 780 can in no way replace the 1850 nor is it a single foil quiver. the 780 definitely requires more wind, and since i'd rather use a smaller hand wing with a bigger foil (rather than a bigger hand wing with a smaller foil), the 1850 still gets most of my water time. the 780 is great for stronger wind days, but a bit too much of a struggle on those light ones.

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beached57 said..
just a quick update on my impressions of the 780. I originally thought it was very near the 1850 in terms of lift and stability, but i've since downgraded that a bit. perhaps i was just initially out in stronger winds than i recalled, but lately i realize that the 780 can in no way replace the 1850 nor is it a single foil quiver. the 780 definitely requires more wind, and since i'd rather use a smaller hand wing with a bigger foil (rather than a bigger hand wing with a smaller foil), the 1850 still gets most of my water time. the 780 is great for stronger wind days, but a bit too much of a struggle on those light ones.

This seems like a pretty broad gap - have you considered replacing your 1850 with an 1180?

Select to expand quote

wingding said..

beached57 said..
just a quick update on my impressions of the 780. I originally thought it was very near the 1850 in terms of lift and stability, but i've since downgraded that a bit. perhaps i was just initially out in stronger winds than i recalled, but lately i realize that the 780 can in no way replace the 1850 nor is it a single foil quiver. the 780 definitely requires more wind, and since i'd rather use a smaller hand wing with a bigger foil (rather than a bigger hand wing with a smaller foil), the 1850 still gets most of my water time. the 780 is great for stronger wind days, but a bit too much of a struggle on those light ones.

This seems like a pretty broad gap - have you considered replacing your 1850 with an 1180?

actually i don't think it's a broad gap at all. the 780 and 1850 are fairly close in performance as i originally stated (way above in this thread), but my current point is that they're not as close as i thought. i'm not looking to replace my 1850 as it's one of my favorite foils for winging. i imagine the 1180 may have some benefits over the 1850, but i've got enough wings cluttering my garage as is.

Select to expand quote

beached57 said..

wingding said..

beached57 said..
just a quick update on my impressions of the 780. I originally thought it was very near the 1850 in terms of lift and stability, but i've since downgraded that a bit. perhaps i was just initially out in stronger winds than i recalled, but lately i realize that the 780 can in no way replace the 1850 nor is it a single foil quiver. the 780 definitely requires more wind, and since i'd rather use a smaller hand wing with a bigger foil (rather than a bigger hand wing with a smaller foil), the 1850 still gets most of my water time. the 780 is great for stronger wind days, but a bit too much of a struggle on those light ones.

This seems like a pretty broad gap - have you considered replacing your 1850 with an 1180?

actually i don't think it's a broad gap at all. the 780 and 1850 are fairly close in performance as i originally stated (way above in this thread), but my current point is that they're not as close as i thought. i'm not looking to replace my 1850 as it's one of my favorite foils for winging. i imagine the 1180 may have some benefits over the 1850, but i've got enough wings cluttering my garage as is.

What tail are you running with the 780? The 1850 is so draggy and slow I'm guessing you are running a larger tail with the 780 for it to seem comparable?

I just had a nice light wind session on the 880 and then 1080 with the 180 stab. Both really great wings.

i'm using the Flying V stabilizer for both (200). And i'm not a fan of going fast, so maybe that's why i like the 1850 so much.

Looks like the 680 may be a good 1-foil quiver for lighter wingers (~ 60 kg). My wife just bought one and had a couple of sessions in 9 and 20 knots of wind, and loved the wing both times. Before the new HAs, she would have used an old 1250 in light wind (and a 1550 maybe twice a year), and the original 725 high aspect in stronger wind. Seems like the 680 can do everything her two previous wings did, but better. Enough lift to get going with a 4.2 when gusts on shore read just above 10 knots, and enough control to use the same wing in 25 knot gusts. She had tried the 880 first, thinking it would fit in between the 725 and 1250, but thought it had too much lift.

Interestingly, she likes the 680 best with her favorite old v-tail. She got a 180 to go with it and tried it with a red shim and the front wing moved 2 cm forward, but could not get going. She had no problems to get going after switching to the v-tail.

A few questions arise:
- What about the new HA makes it so much better?
- Why shim the speed 180 tail? She did it based on advice from others using the same foil, but ended up not being able to fly, despite moving the mast forward. The Armstrong shims reduce lift - does everyone else use the small front wings only when it's nuking?

A question for the foil drive users:
what is the best armstrong front foil to use for say 15knot downwinder conditions with a foil drive? Say with knee to waist high wind swell, so a relatively easy going downwind day? Would the HA v2 be able to glide and keep up in these conditions or would it be a constant pumpathon to stay on the wind swells? asking for a friend who is about 80kg intermediate.

Select to expand quote

Poida said..
A question for the foil drive users:
what is the best armstrong front foil to use for say 15knot downwinder conditions with a foil drive? Say with knee to waist high wind swell, so a relatively easy going downwind day? Would the HA v2 be able to glide and keep up in these conditions or would it be a constant pumpathon to stay on the wind swells? asking for a friend who is about 80kg intermediate.

i'd say the 980 myself. that's what a local has settled on after using the 1080 and that's paddling up (he did use the FD before). good compromise between enough lift and glide but much better to turn that the 1080. But he's a decent rider though.

Select to expand quote

boardsurfr said..
Looks like the 680 may be a good 1-foil quiver for lighter wingers (~ 60 kg). My wife just bought one and had a couple of sessions in 9 and 20 knots of wind, and loved the wing both times. Before the new HAs, she would have used an old 1250 in light wind (and a 1550 maybe twice a year), and the original 725 high aspect in stronger wind. Seems like the 680 can do everything her two previous wings did, but better. Enough lift to get going with a 4.2 when gusts on shore read just above 10 knots, and enough control to use the same wing in 25 knot gusts. She had tried the 880 first, thinking it would fit in between the 725 and 1250, but thought it had too much lift.

Interestingly, she likes the 680 best with her favorite old v-tail. She got a 180 to go with it and tried it with a red shim and the front wing moved 2 cm forward, but could not get going. She had no problems to get going after switching to the v-tail.

A few questions arise:
- What about the new HA makes it so much better?
- Why shim the speed 180 tail? She did it based on advice from others using the same foil, but ended up not being able to fly, despite moving the mast forward. The Armstrong shims reduce lift - does everyone else use the small front wings only when it's nuking?

I'd say try it then without a shim. I use both a red and a blue but not in marginal conditions. I hate light wind winging rather do something else like watch grass grow. Speed tail is higher aspect needs some speed over it to work i suppose.