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Shlogger said..
So has anyone used the Naish Crossover 120 wind foiling. I like the idea of being able to switch the front wing and go Sup foiling or surf foiling. What happens if you try to wind foil on the Crossover 120 using the large wings meant for Sup'n and Surf'n? I'm debating between the two boards now. The video with Kai implies that he used the same foil for all three, my guess is he swapped out the front wing.

I hope to ours for a burl tomorrow. Will attempt to get some gopro and pics

Ride safe,

JB

Any ideas on the range of board sizes that will work well with the Naish Thrust foil.

I have a 250cm x 69cm board in mind - too long, too narrow?

Thanks

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azymuth said..
Any ideas on the range of board sizes that will work well with the Naish Thrust foil.

I have a 250cm x 69cm board in mind - too long, too narrow?

Thanks

I used my 112 mistral with a horue foil for quite a while and thought it was ok
But later once I got some wider boards I realized I had been making it harder for myself, I found that the extra width is an advantage on the foil not just in light winds but you get so much more control in strong winds, the length on the other hand seems to be far less significant so no worries there
Anyway it will work and be possible to use is the short answer

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scarrgo said..

azymuth said..
Any ideas on the range of board sizes that will work well with the Naish Thrust foil.

I have a 250cm x 69cm board in mind - too long, too narrow?

Thanks

I used my 112 mistral with a horue foil for quite a while and thought it was ok
But later once I got some wider boards I realized I had been making it harder for myself, I found that the extra width is an advantage on the foil not just in light winds but you get so much more control in strong winds, the length on the other hand seems to be far less significant so no worries there
Anyway it will work and be possible to use is the short answer

Cheers Sean

whats is the range of sail sizes for foiling ?

I think on the naish site it has 5.7 and 4.7 sail for foiling.

obviously it depends on weight - how does the foiling go in strong winds say 20- 25 ? or more ?

or do they get put away for wave boards then ?

They get put away in strong winds.a lot of ppl brought the foils for light winds myself included.the Hover thrust is not a speed demon.l think in a few years someone might crack 40 knots on a high aspect foil. . My hover moves at around 18 to 20 knots that's enough for me. Some of the Euro guys are saying the race foils can go pretty fast.almost endless speed push it if you dare they are saying.

The Naish WS foil sounds great. It seems to focus on the things that are most important to me for foiling which are going in as light as wind as possible, good upwind ability, and stable flight.

Hopefully it also can make nice carving turns on swells. I also read it goes about 20 knots which is as much speed as I need. I look forward to trying it and I will most likely buy it.

The Naish Hover 122 WS board though confuses me. With the goals I stated above, it is my understanding from what I read online that wider boards are more stable, and boards with more volume from increased width can rise up sooner.

JP has two foil boards, the 135 and 155. I purchased the 155 because they say it targets light wind and upwind foiling, two of my goals.

I have heard many say that in air jibing is also easier on a wider board, so I assume carving turns on swells might also be easier on a wider board. My JP 155 foil board is 90 cm wide. The JP 135, their smaller board, is 86 cm wide. The Naish board is only 73 cm wide.

Is there something that I do not understand that allows the Naish board to get onto the foil faster in light winds vs. a wider foil board?

This topic is really interesting to me. I am no expert but this is my take from my own research and I think it depends a lot on the foil you choose. When I tried the Slingshot foil on the 133 litre board, the board felt unnecessarily big for me at ~97kg. It was heavy to carry around and I knew I would not go in that direction of a board that big and heavy. Perhaps a large light board would be better. Though the foiling was super fun and got me hooked!
The wider and thinner chord foils (high aspect ratio like NP carbon race etc) are designed to be more stable at a higher speed than lower speed and take more speed to get going, opposite to the Naish (though it still achieves a respectable top end). Therefore you do not need as big a sail to get going on the Naish. As you do not need a bigger sail you can probably get away with a much smaller board size including width. Most people can easily up haul a 122 litre board, 110 is fine for most and certainly at my light weight . Though the short and wide seems to work best from all the forums I have read as there is less swing weight and the width is stability.

I think the much larger board (155 litre) would likely have some detriment in that it is heavier and may be more of an issue once going fast or if the wind picks up (wind resistance, friction, turbulence etc). So on many of the foils they work well on boards around 120 litre and 80 wide, but on some foils you probably want a bit more width and volume to be stable and on others can probably get away with less. This is mostly surmising from what I have read

I wonder how small a board the Naish would work with? But at 73 wide most people I have spoken to say it is more than stable enough. NP suggest boards of 70cm wide and up for their fast foils and I know of people who have easily used the NP on smaller boards than 120 litre.

So with the Naish or similar foils (stable and early take off ) then perhaps even smaller again than the hover will work well?

Thanks Vic, interesting points.

The JP 135 Foil Board is 7.6kg, the 155 is 8.6kg. If you get the less expensive 135 it weighs the same as the 155. I could not find what the Naish board weights in at. I agree board weight would impact early foiling.

From what I heard the Slingshot boards run a bit heavy, although I could not find their weight. I believe they are not carbon, which would explain why they feel heavy.


I read the 155 is also good in high winds because of the stability the extra width brings.The Naish board is a bit longer, 229 cm vs. 220 cm for the JP 155 and 215 cm for the JP 135.


Exocet is coming out with foil boards, at 81 and 91 cm wide. Their 135 L will be 7.2 kg in carbon or 9.5 kg in ASA. They will have 160 L at 230 cm and 7.9 kg Carbon. Just like JP, they only make a larger board in Carbon, perhaps because it becomes too heavy in other materials.

It is a hard question because I want to be able to foil in the lightest winds and I want to be able to comfortably carve on swells, and I am not sure which board is better at it. They really are very different boards yet promoting the same goal.

Just to clarify I used a demo board at the local shop which is an old Starboard free formula with the slingshot foil -not the Slingshot foil board. It would weigh a lot more than either of the JP foil boards I would think but it did feel heavy and too big for me.
The really wide boards I image you can really load up the foil with a race sail and give it heaps and really fly. You probably don't need that if you use a 5 to 6m sail, or even a freerace 7.5. So I think if you have a foil board that is awesome and short wide boards seem to be the go and a light one would theoretically aid with lift off, as it does for an aeroplane. An aeroplane needs more thrust if it is heavier to take off (more thrust for a windfoil is a bigger sail or more wind). So perhaps the type of foil may dictate the type of board you would go for?

I am late to this party - but looks real interesting especially the light air stuff.

Sounds like foils differ some are good for early lift off - light air moderate speed -16- 20 ? . others are more high wind/high speed

Considering that a foil does in water what sail does in air - no surprise that size and shape will vary for conditions. The whole package would be my preference.

however i wonder if it would be hard to build simple board in foam and epoxy with re enforcing in right places for foil attachment.

similarity rig requirements are slightly different given a 6 metres sail is going to be used in lighter breezes - perhaps lighter weight materials and less re enforcement?



"

OK, based on the comments in this thread I decided to buy a Naish Windsurf Foil. I am going to run it on my JP 155 foil board and see how it compares to my other two foils, the NP Aluminum, and the Go Foil Maliko. I should have it next week and will update once I have had some time on it.

Normster, based on the feedback in this thread it sounds like the Naish is good at light wind and can go as fast as I would want to go on a foil. There are foils that are faster but they do not interest me as my goal is not to go as fast as possible.

First go yesterday with my Naish WS1 foil plugged into an Isonic 107 (68.5 wide) with 5m wave sail. I'm 84kgs.

Easier than I thought and heaps of fun. 3 mates also had quick first tries and all popped up foiling pretty easily

Wind was about 15 to 20 knots - had a quite a few 200m glides (albeit erratic) after about 20 minutes popping up and down.
34cm harness lines way too long - probably need 26'ers.
The back straps on the Isonic felt too far out on the rail - fine in the stronger gusts but could do with a strap 5cm inward.
I think that the board might be a little narrow for sub 12 knot winds - it felt quite sticky when the wind dropped.

A couple of questions;
Has anyone tethered their foil - if so are you drilling a small hole through the top of the mast?
Worried about my standard tuttle box cracking or the bolts pulling through and losing the lot!
Also I noticed a little water in the mast - anyone thought about filling the mast with closed cell expanding foam?

Light wind ocean down-winders are going to be awesome Cheers JJ

Ok thinking of getting the Hover but coming from a raceboard background will need to get some smaller sails.What do people think of the following, I weigh 80kg
NP Ryde 6.5
Naish force five 6.2 and 5.0
Naish Sprint 6.4
want to get out as much as possible is the 6.5 too big??
maybe a 6m might better

Went out yesterday 10-15 knots. 5.5m (wave sail) wasn't enough for me to be up on foil whole time. I need a bit bigger would thing a 6.5 would have had it dialled in.

I had time to play with lots of the small adjustments of both foil tilt and also foil track position. Very interesting.

The foil tilt did get me lifting quicker. The interesting thing was that moving the foil toward to nose by 1cm (arrow in line with front of the foil fin box) made a massive difference. The foil when up did sit a little lower in the water but also felt more balance very much like normal sailing position. IU thing this was because I could use my back foot more.

One of the other big things I noticed was that I ditched the wetsuit boots (careful on not cutting foot on foil if water starting). This allowed for the smallest of toes and foot angle adjustments and more feel. Even the smallest of toe pressure can make a massive change.

Anyway I got a few gybes in but it continues to prove that this is a whole new thing even after sailing for >30 years. It brings out some of your inherit weaknesses and any differences between port or starboard sailing. I realised a few things in the lighter winds on the foil:
1. I really am not good with pumping (I gave that up years ago)- so need some practice as I have become a lazy sailor waiting for the gusts to get me onto the plane
2. starboard hand fwd foiling for me was a little slower to get up on the foil than port
3. harness lines need to be a little shorter and a little further back

AUS814 I think up to a 6.5 will be fine on the Naish setup. I am definitely going to add a sail that size into my quiver as I only go to 5.5 at the moment and my old 6.6 race sail I think is too heavy. I too am just not sure which sail to go that will be light and have the quick acceleration at low winds, and provide some wind holding to pump- any suggestions welcome.

Thanks for the update H2o, can I ask what your weight night be ?

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AUS 814 said..
Thanks for the update H2o, can I ask what your weight night be ?

around the 85kegs

Has anyone tried the 90cm mast in the Hover ??, would it offer any benefits or just increase the pain levels if you went over the bars from that height ?

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AUS 814 said..
Has anyone tried the 90cm mast in the Hover ??, would it offer any benefits or just increase the pain levels if you went over the bars from that height ?

Was told on back order and won't be available for a while yet.
i was out in some decent swell couple days ago didn't have any issues with the 70. But I've still got a long way to go learning.

The 90 cm mast would be good in big chop that's about all. The 70 cm mast is all you need in light winds if anything it will pop up quicker then the 90 so l have be told. J.B. might have a answer for us.

My first session on my Naish WS Foil I used a 7.5 Ezzy Zephyr, which is a big sail, same boom measurement as an 8.0.


The wind was really light and I did not want to take any chances on having too small a sail. I was the only one out as the wind was so low. I did not need to pump, and the control and stability worked fine with the large sail. I probably could have been on a 6.5 and pumped to get up.


AUS 814 I think a 6.5 is fine. It might depend on your board. I am on a JP 155 foil board so it can handle large sails.


Today covered 27 km in light wind with a 5.5 and some serious pumping at times to get going. My top speed was 15 knots. I probably would have preferred a 6.5 at times today so I could do less pumping.


Not sure if I am doing it right but I used a little up and down motion along with the sail pumping to get going. Sometimes the board would pop out of the water which gave me a chance to get a little speed, then it would come down, then one more pump and I was up for good. I really study the water for the ripples of a gust, and I also found if I can combine that with a small swell at the same time it really helps.


The Naish is my 3rd foil and I really like it the most. For me the early take off and stability are most important and Naish WS foil offers both. If I can do 17 knots or so comfortably on the top end I don't feel the need to go faster.


I have sailed a shorter mast in chop and I did not have a problem with it. I think the 70 cm is high enough. Today the wind was gusty and as I got tired I had a few times where my foil came out of the water. I am glad I am not on the 90 cm when coming back down. The touch downs were pleasant and I was able to pop right back up and continue on.

My 4th foiling session - steady 15 to 18 knot seabreeze with nice swell lines. Used 5.3m Blacktip wavesail.

The 70cm mast works great on the ocean - in fact foiling at half-height upwind kissing the wave tops is awesome fun.

Sailed 25 kms, 95% of the time foiling, top speed 19.9 knots. No idea what other foils are like, but the Naish makes it easy.

Get into it peeps


Leighton Beach WA

yep, the Naish does make it easy. I got out on mine for the first time on the weekend on my Mistral Devil in good conditions for learning.
Take-off is easy and touch-downs gentle and predicable. The foil is docile and you get lost of warning before things go pear-shaped.
I really like the design. the foil does not rely on thick bolts for strength, the components fit together in slots and are fastened with M6 screws.
I used Nulon anti-seize on the threads and found that I had to re-tighten the mast/fuselage connection after a couple of hours. I have removed the excess lubricant and it now stays tight.

those of you with "older" boards - before foiling ...
have you all re-enforced the fin box ??
anything else as well ??

Can?t find anything about the weight of the Thrust WS1 foil, any who knows?

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normster said..
whats is the range of sail sizes for foiling ?

I think on the naish site it has 5.7 and 4.7 sail for foiling.

obviously it depends on weight - how does the foiling go in strong winds say 20- 25 ? or more ?

or do they get put away for wave boards then ?

I have probably put about 20 hours on my hover 122 with naish thrust foil , I am 75 kilos and it seems as a rule of thumb if you can water start easily the rig is too big, you can foil easily around at board speed of 16 knots , much quicker and you get to much lift , so change down sail size . foot strap position is really critical with the straps back it is easier to get up on the foil, but a bit harder when wind kicks in , I find going downwind take the back foot out in stronger breezes and move it forward this help keep downward pressure on the foil . So with the lift 5.7 i use it from around 8 to 13 knots then go to 4.7 upto 20 after that sea state is getting a bit hairy. Absolute hooked in the marginal breeze it is so interactive and engaging . To me the fact of high lift and small sail is way more appealing then some set ups with higher aspect foil and bigger rigs .

Normster, foiling in strong gusty winds on the Naish is not easy. I prefer gust of 19 knots or under on my 4.7 Superfreak.I think gusty is the issue. Strong constant winds, like they get in Maui, you can foil with a small sail. I am hearing they use size 2 something there.


Where I sail when the wind goes above 20 knots, it is not steady. I tried a 3.5 Superfreak sail and it was very hard because the wind would be on, then it would disappear for that sail size, then come back on.


Also as mentioned above, the Naish likes to run about 16 knots. Maybe heavier riders can get more speed out of it but I find it gets harder to control and feels like it is not in it's comfort zone when you go faster.My top speed today was 18.24 knots, and that was because I was coming down a large swell and picked up too much speed. I had a pretty good crash too because of it. I have to learn how to come down the ramp of a large swell and maintain 16 knots if possible.


I had my first day on the Lift 5.7 and it really is better for foiling. In wind gusts 11 to 13 knots it start easily with very little pumping, and the upwind angles and turning ability were great. The softness in the sail makes controlling it easy, and I did a lot of one arm foiling with while in the harness line. I am hoping it will handle over 13 knots of wind, as I did not feel it was getting too much power at 13 knots.



If it is gusting 16 knots or more I am sure a 4.7 sail would feel better, but I am hoping the Lift can handle it so I do not have to change sails if I am already rigged.I found with extreme sheeting out and very long harness lines I could handle up to 17.3 knots on my 6.5 Ezzy sail. The sail was sheeted out almost all the way at times, but it worked. It was not the optimum size, but it was more fun to keep going than to exit the water and rig a new sail.

Bensen, regarding the weight the foil takes in some water so a dry weight is one thing but it will probably get a bit heavier when in the water. If that effects the performance a bit that is OK because I still love the way it performs. Once you get out of the water if you take it apart it will drain instantly, if you keep it together it will drip dry. I had some foam put in my mast at the top and bottom which keeps most of the water out. There is still a little bit that drips out after a session.

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BrynKaufman said..


Also as mentioned above, the Naish likes to run about 16 knots.

It looks like they all have a design speed, depends to some degree (?) on the Tail wing angle. The NP instruction booklet...


Just wait, that'll evolve into a boom twist grip. The only question is.. will you twist down to go faster or twist up to push the nose down?

Desperately waiting for the Next container to arrive with my Hover - counting the days !. Can anyone suggest a board bag that might fit. Flying Objects have a day cover in 235 X 85 to fit a slalom board, ? the shape of the hover should fit okay, no problems if its to big !. Any thought s or suggestions welcome