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Thickness and chord were measured at 80cm down the mast.

Phantasm 102 Twist 7mm Flex 10mm Thickness 13.7mm Chord 109mm

Sabfoil 101cm Twist 10mm Flex 12mm Thickness 13.92mm Chord 106mm

Levitaz 110cm Twist 16mm Flex 12 mm Thickness 12.5mm Chord 98mm

Naish 2018 Alloy 90 cm Twist 5 mm Flex 19mm Thickness 15mm Chord 110mm

Thanks, now I understand why my Lokefoil is so much stiffer. It has a chord of 130mm with a short section up to 160mm. The thickness varies between 16 mm and 18mm. I didn't realise that kite masts are optimised for lightweight and low drag rather than absolute stiffness.

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horey69 said..
Ok so just in from the US team
The 103 carbon wide body with the PFI730 wing 872 aluminium fuse and PS 400 stab comes in at 4.4kg.
2.6kg of that is the Carbon wide body mast.
The Phantasm isn't built to be the lightest on the market, it's built to be super stiff/ durable/ adaptable.
Latest hype sheets are dropping on May the 4th
Hit up your dealer
Grant

Well, today is May 4th. Just saying :)

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CoreAS said..
The U.S. phantasm launch has been delayed to the summer as well now.
Increased demand for shipping containers and logistics are creating a bottle neck.

Looks like no May 4/21 promotion -- delayed until...?

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WillyWind said..

horey69 said..
Ok so just in from the US team
The 103 carbon wide body with the PFI730 wing 872 aluminium fuse and PS 400 stab comes in at 4.4kg.
2.6kg of that is the Carbon wide body mast.
The Phantasm isn't built to be the lightest on the market, it's built to be super stiff/ durable/ adaptable.
Latest hype sheets are dropping on May the 4th
Hit up your dealer
Grant

Well, today is May 4th. Just saying :)

May 4th 2022, fool! Just kidding. I don't think Slingshot is the only company that can't find containers. I know other companies in different industries that can't get their products due to shipping container not being available.

Yep delayed due to shipping etc, no exact date either.

I work in an industry that relies on raw materials coming in on shipping containers and it's a total crap shoot. it's been going on for a long, long time

Also if you have product shipping from China it's not unusual for freight companies to hold your containers up until you pay over the original estimated shipping amount. Got you by the short and curlies they have!

combine that with surge in equipment demand, Covid, shipping canals delayed due to ships stuck in the sand (not necessarily slingshot) and you now have the absolute perfect storm of FUBAR.

Today in the news there is an epidemic shortage of swimming pool chlorine due to all of the above, and housing lumbar has tripled in past 6 months.

Phantasm now due in June

Yep you got it, pushed back again, we at Slingshot Australia like every other brand are facing multiple issues with shipping/demand/ manufacturing delays due to new C19 outbreaks, not a lot any of us can do.

Stay calm and ride your current gear.

Grant

The latest news is that the new Phantasm windfoil stuff won't arrive in the UK until August 10th. I've decided to cancel my order as I don't want to wait that long and I'm mainly winging now anyway.

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simonp123 said..
The latest news is that the new Phantasm windfoil stuff won't arrive in the UK until August 10th. I've decided to cancel my order as I don't want to wait that long and I'm mainly winging now anyway.

From what I've heard the Phantasm range also has some impressive winging foils as well wind foil and kiting foils.

I have to admit that if I had to wait until August I too would be looking for something else.

A lot of hype over carbon foils period!
Sure lighter and easier to carry etc. but not many foilers actually seem to progress past anything that the hover glide/aluminum foils wouldn't do!

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CoreAS said..
A lot of hype over carbon foils period!
Sure lighter and easier to carry etc. but not many foilers actually seem to progress past anything that the hover glide/aluminum foils wouldn't do!

I agree. For the money even the very good free foilers can be happy with the hover glide foils (and apparently they are). I suspect they get 90 to 95% of the performance the of expensive foils with carbon masts, etc. Like with many things you have to pay a ton of money for those few extra percentage points of performance. If you have the financial wherewithal then why not. Everyone else should think twice and consider doing the prudent thing. If we're honest with ourselves sometimes the more expensive product disappoints (after we get tired of attempting to rationalize why we bought the damn thing).

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dejavu said..

CoreAS said..
A lot of hype over carbon foils period!
Sure lighter and easier to carry etc. but not many foilers actually seem to progress past anything that the hover glide/aluminum foils wouldn't do!

I agree. For the money even the very good free foilers can be happy with the hover glide foils (and apparently they are). I suspect they get 90 to 95% of the performance the of expensive foils with carbon masts, etc. Like with many things you have to pay a ton of money for those few extra percentage points of performance. If you have the financial wherewithal then why not. Everyone else should think twice and consider doing the prudent thing. If we're honest with ourselves sometimes the more expensive product disappoints (after we get tired of attempting to rationalize why we bought the damn thing).

Completely agree regarding the extra percentage performance points but to watch novice wingers riding a $2.5k carbon foil and still can't gybe or even get up foil very well, means someone is doing a great job selling whatever the cool super hype look is.

i don't know that we need to be shaming people for their purchases... either being cheap or spendy. some people just like nicer things and some are more frugal. Slingshot Hover Glide does not provide 90-95% of possible performance sorry. While foils like the i76 are still relevant, it is now about 3 years old, and we've seen how much development has happened in that time frame. I basically earned to foil on the i76 and still think it's a good wing, but I've also ridden better... much better.

I could see the immediate impact when my girlfriend switched from SS HG to Fanatic Aero HA for winging... the upwind angle, speed, and stability were apparent on the first reach.

one of my gripes about SS early on was weight... at that point i didn't care if it even performed better, I just wanted lighter. The 1/2 mile walk to the water from the car influenced that.

Some people show up to the beach in a Tesla w/ old ass gear. Others show up in beaters w/ shiny new carbon foils. Their life, their choice.

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sunsetsailboards said..
i don't know that we need to be shaming people for their purchases... either being cheap or spendy. some people just like nicer things and some are more frugal. Slingshot Hover Glide does not provide 90-95% of possible performance sorry. While foils like the i76 are still relevant, it is now about 3 years old, and we've seen how much development has happened in that time frame. I basically earned to foil on the i76 and still think it's a good wing, but I've also ridden better... much better.

I could see the immediate impact when my girlfriend switched from SS HG to Fanatic Aero HA for winging... the upwind angle, speed, and stability were apparent on the first reach.

one of my gripes about SS early on was weight... at that point i didn't care if it even performed better, I just wanted lighter. The 1/2 mile walk to the water from the car influenced that.

Some people show up to the beach in a Tesla w/ old ass gear. Others show up in beaters w/ shiny new carbon foils. Their life, their choice.

I agree. Slingshot Hover Glide is a great foil for the money. The Phantasm series will be much better in terms of performance, weight and wing selection. Why get a carbon boom and not aluminum? The weight, the performance and long term durability. Same applies with foil components. Maybe in winging (short mast) the carbon mast doesn't stand out that much, but see the difference in racing platforms. Is a carbon mast really worth 1.5k more for the mast alone? You decide.

I've ridden a lot of different masts over the last few years and what is evident is that a stiff mast makes foot switching so much easier as the whole platform feels more rigid.
In this regard alloy masts are great, for their price there is nothing stiffer. But as you go to longer masts the carbon wins as the upper section can be built a lot thicker to remove the flex from that area. At 112cm that the Phantasm will come in only carbon will do, and if playing in swell is your thing the long mast is definitely the go.
But alloy is great for shorter masts, and from what I understand there are adapters coming that will allow phantasm wings to fit hover glide masts.
Of course Covid is destroying the supply chain, went looking for a new bed yesterday and lead times have blown out to 6 months, the other half wasn't happy.

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airsail said..
I've ridden a lot of different masts over the last few years and what is evident is that a stiff mast makes foot switching so much easier as the whole platform feels more rigid.
In this regard alloy masts are great, for their price there is nothing stiffer. But as you go to longer masts the carbon wins as the upper section can be built a lot thicker to remove the flex from that area. At 112cm that the Phantasm will come in only carbon will do, and if playing in swell is your thing the long mast is definitely the go.
But alloy is great for shorter masts, and from what I understand there are adapters coming that will allow phantasm wings to fit hover glide masts.
Of course Covid is destroying the supply chain, went looking for a new bed yesterday and lead times have blown out to 6 months, the other half wasn't happy.

i guess you'll just have to keep sleeping in the same bed together then until she can get her own ;-)

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sunsetsailboards said..
i don't know that we need to be shaming people for their purchases... either being cheap or spendy. some people just like nicer things and some are more frugal. Slingshot Hover Glide does not provide 90-95% of possible performance sorry. While foils like the i76 are still relevant, it is now about 3 years old, and we've seen how much development has happened in that time frame. I basically earned to foil on the i76 and still think it's a good wing, but I've also ridden better... much better.

I could see the immediate impact when my girlfriend switched from SS HG to Fanatic Aero HA for winging... the upwind angle, speed, and stability were apparent on the first reach.

one of my gripes about SS early on was weight... at that point i didn't care if it even performed better, I just wanted lighter. The 1/2 mile walk to the water from the car influenced that.

Some people show up to the beach in a Tesla w/ old ass gear. Others show up in beaters w/ shiny new carbon foils. Their life, their choice.

You mentioned the Fanatic Aero HA wings -- where I am these foils (aluminium masts) are in the same ballpark price-wise as the SS Hover Glide foils, which are about $700 to $1,500 less expensive than the foils with carbon masts. The Kujira foils (aluminium masts) are again $700 to $1,500 less than the foils with carbon masts (although you can pay considerably more and get a carbon mast).

Are you saying that these less expensive foils (SS, Fanatic, Takuma and others) can't get within a few percentage points of the performance of the significantly more expensive foils? Your comments about the Fanatic foils seem to contradict this. My comments were not restricted to the Hover Glide foils but rather to the bang for the buck that some foils offer when compared to the more expensive ones -- IMO this has nothing to do with "shaming".

Like I said -- if you have the financial wherewithal to buy whatever you want, then who cares, go ahead. All I was saying is that there are some very good foils out there that are very competitive performance-wise with the expensive foils -- they may not be as light or have quite the build quality but for a lot of people that's not particularly important because they suspect that the technology and designs will be (and are) changing rapidly as the foiling sports grow -- meaning they'll upgrade in a year or two anyway. One tends to take a bigger hit on resale for the expensive stuff percentage-wise (a 40% hit on the resale of a $2,500 foil is a lot more money than a 40% hit on a $1,500 foil). Fortunately for me, I don't have to walk half a mile to the water -- if I did I'd probably be buying foils with carbon masts too!

Not shaming anyone for buying carbon its more of the miss guidance.

From my observation and talking with groups of foilers from the different disciplines they are jumping ahead and getting frustrating results but as we know carbon is always cool kid.

I'm as frustrated with the global market delays of the phantasm as the next man! but still having killer sessions on the HG (all infinity wings)
and yes its an old design but sometimes they are hard to beat.

In my crystal ball i can see you guys running in a few months to your local dealer and buying this mighty magic mystery all carbon phantasm carbon stuff and telling your wife this is much much better than the 3 years old outdated alu thing

I haven't been impressed with the Phantasm quality so far. My Phantasm Kite 633 had a very noisy mast and rear stab which I had to fix with some Donaldson's trailing edge sanding. The sides of fuselage are now developing significant areas of corrosion where there is no contact with wings, etc or suffered any damaged. I assume that's caused by poor quality paint/coating.

The Phantasm Windsurf 730 is going to sell for GBP 2500 (USD 3500) in the UK! That seems excessive - particularly if the quality doesn't improve. For that sort of money I'd expect a carbon or titanium fuselage like Armstrong.

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PatK said..
In my crystal ball i can see you guys running in a few months to your local dealer and buying this mighty magic mystery all carbon phantasm carbon stuff and telling your wife this is much much better than the 3 years old outdated alu thing

Anytime I want an upgrade, just tell the wife it's a safety issue.

Those that already pushing the limits of the HG will Im sure feel the extra percentage of the carbon phantasm.
The video evidence of the WA crew shredding on the HG alone is proof of the pudding.


My point was for the novice, beginners and through say the first phase (perfecting the gybe for example) a $2.5+ carbon foil will not magically get you there.

BTW There are quality issues with every brand

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dejavu said..

sunsetsailboards said..
i don't know that we need to be shaming people for their purchases... either being cheap or spendy. some people just like nicer things and some are more frugal. Slingshot Hover Glide does not provide 90-95% of possible performance sorry. While foils like the i76 are still relevant, it is now about 3 years old, and we've seen how much development has happened in that time frame. I basically earned to foil on the i76 and still think it's a good wing, but I've also ridden better... much better.

I could see the immediate impact when my girlfriend switched from SS HG to Fanatic Aero HA for winging... the upwind angle, speed, and stability were apparent on the first reach.

one of my gripes about SS early on was weight... at that point i didn't care if it even performed better, I just wanted lighter. The 1/2 mile walk to the water from the car influenced that.

Some people show up to the beach in a Tesla w/ old ass gear. Others show up in beaters w/ shiny new carbon foils. Their life, their choice.

You mentioned the Fanatic Aero HA wings -- where I am these foils (aluminium masts) are in the same ballpark price-wise as the SS Hover Glide foils, which are about $700 to $1,500 less expensive than the foils with carbon masts. The Kujira foils (aluminium masts) are again $700 to $1,500 less than the foils with carbon masts (although you can pay considerably more and get a carbon mast).

Are you saying that these less expensive foils (SS, Fanatic, Takuma and others) can't get within a few percentage points of the performance of the significantly more expensive foils? Your comments about the Fanatic foils seem to contradict this. My comments were not restricted to the Hover Glide foils but rather to the bang for the buck that some foils offer when compared to the more expensive ones -- IMO this has nothing to do with "shaming".

Like I said -- if you have the financial wherewithal to buy whatever you want, then who cares, go ahead. All I was saying is that there are some very good foils out there that are very competitive performance-wise with the expensive foils -- they may not be as light or have quite the build quality but for a lot of people that's not particularly important because they suspect that the technology and designs will be (and are) changing rapidly as the foiling sports grow -- meaning they'll upgrade in a year or two anyway. One tends to take a bigger hit on resale for the expensive stuff percentage-wise (a 40% hit on the resale of a $2,500 foil is a lot more money than a 40% hit on a $1,500 foil). Fortunately for me, I don't have to walk half a mile to the water -- if I did I'd probably be buying foils with carbon masts too!

I agree that carbon set up is particularly helpful for carrying my gear on long walk at the beach and also ease of set-up. The particular carbon foil I have does not show the corrosion I had experienced with Slingshot which also delaminated after a short use (replaced by warranty). Despite I am not proficient in foil jibing , I guess that is considered below level 1, I am enjoying the ride of foiling. I appreciate everyone has a different levels of buying power but at my age and working for over 45 years, I allow myself some of the expensive developments to certain degree. I feel that the carbon foil did make a significant difference even for me at my level and many people at our beach could not ride foil at my level.

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simonp123 said..
I haven't been impressed with the Phantasm quality so far. My Phantasm Kite 633 had a very noisy mast and rear stab which I had to fix with some Donaldson's trailing edge sanding. The sides of fuselage are now developing significant areas of corrosion where there is no contact with wings, etc or suffered any damaged. I assume that's caused by poor quality paint/coating.

The Phantasm Windsurf 730 is going to sell for GBP 2500 (USD 3500) in the UK! That seems excessive - particularly if the quality doesn't improve. For that sort of money I'd expect a carbon or titanium fuselage like Armstrong.

I dont understand that they didnt go 1-piece / monobloc plane, or at least 1 piece frontwing/fuselage. Especially since slingshot doesnt believe in shimming anyway. The performance difference is quite noticable (having tested the exact same carbon frontwing with an alu fuselage and 1-piece carbon), and its a lot stronger if done right. Alu fuselages kept bending on me, carbon is bulletproof!!

I suppose transport is an argument (and possibly a good one at that..), but the biggest F-One wing has 110 wingspan and 2200cm2, and also has a monoblock construction up until the mast connection. Its just the back half of the fuselage which is screwed on, but that bit doesnt take that much force.

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dejavu said..

sunsetsailboards said..
i don't know that we need to be shaming people for their purchases... either being cheap or spendy. some people just like nicer things and some are more frugal. Slingshot Hover Glide does not provide 90-95% of possible performance sorry. While foils like the i76 are still relevant, it is now about 3 years old, and we've seen how much development has happened in that time frame. I basically earned to foil on the i76 and still think it's a good wing, but I've also ridden better... much better.

I could see the immediate impact when my girlfriend switched from SS HG to Fanatic Aero HA for winging... the upwind angle, speed, and stability were apparent on the first reach.

one of my gripes about SS early on was weight... at that point i didn't care if it even performed better, I just wanted lighter. The 1/2 mile walk to the water from the car influenced that.

Some people show up to the beach in a Tesla w/ old ass gear. Others show up in beaters w/ shiny new carbon foils. Their life, their choice.

You mentioned the Fanatic Aero HA wings -- where I am these foils (aluminium masts) are in the same ballpark price-wise as the SS Hover Glide foils, which are about $700 to $1,500 less expensive than the foils with carbon masts. The Kujira foils (aluminium masts) are again $700 to $1,500 less than the foils with carbon masts (although you can pay considerably more and get a carbon mast).

Are you saying that these less expensive foils (SS, Fanatic, Takuma and others) can't get within a few percentage points of the performance of the significantly more expensive foils? Your comments about the Fanatic foils seem to contradict this. My comments were not restricted to the Hover Glide foils but rather to the bang for the buck that some foils offer when compared to the more expensive ones -- IMO this has nothing to do with "shaming".

Like I said -- if you have the financial wherewithal to buy whatever you want, then who cares, go ahead. All I was saying is that there are some very good foils out there that are very competitive performance-wise with the expensive foils -- they may not be as light or have quite the build quality but for a lot of people that's not particularly important because they suspect that the technology and designs will be (and are) changing rapidly as the foiling sports grow -- meaning they'll upgrade in a year or two anyway. One tends to take a bigger hit on resale for the expensive stuff percentage-wise (a 40% hit on the resale of a $2,500 foil is a lot more money than a 40% hit on a $1,500 foil). Fortunately for me, I don't have to walk half a mile to the water -- if I did I'd probably be buying foils with carbon masts too!

my comments were intended to point out that maybe it's not so friendly to make fun people for spending more money (or less money) on a foil regardless of skill level. I know we're all just having fun here, but people chiming in that someone who spend $2.5k for a carbon foil and can't even jibe yet must have fell for hype, etc, or that there's no point in spending more $$ for something other than X-Brand because some guy somewhere shreds on it. i've found foiling, and especially wing foiling, to be extremely tribal, and people really get into brands. Perhaps it's the non-cross-compatability b/w foil parts. not sure if this is the same everywhere or just here in San Francisco Bay Area.

I agree with you that there are great foils at many price points. my 95% performance comment was with regard to SS HG specifically, I think it's long in the tooth, and while state of the art at the time (2-3 years ago), now you can get better foils for a small price premium. I still think it's good value bang for the buck currently, especially for the careful person (like me) who is willing to maintain the parts and make sure all the fasteners are tight. I am a Slingshot/Fanatic/SAB retailer, and I've tried a decent amount of stuff while learning and teaching windsurf foiling and wingfoiling, and I've seen lots of beginners struggle with gear that is hard to use whether it be cheap or expensive. I wish the Slingshot FWing package offered a longer fuselage option, as I think the pitch stability of the short fuse makes learning harder for many people. The Slingshot FWind package is still a nice foil for wind foiling IMO.

Anyway, will be interested to see how good the Phantasm range is when it finally arrives. Will the masts be stiff? Also interested in the final production weight. First numbers I've heard are very light, but we'll see if that's actually the reality.

Select to expand quote

WhiteofHeart said..

simonp123 said..
I haven't been impressed with the Phantasm quality so far. My Phantasm Kite 633 had a very noisy mast and rear stab which I had to fix with some Donaldson's trailing edge sanding. The sides of fuselage are now developing significant areas of corrosion where there is no contact with wings, etc or suffered any damaged. I assume that's caused by poor quality paint/coating.

The Phantasm Windsurf 730 is going to sell for GBP 2500 (USD 3500) in the UK! That seems excessive - particularly if the quality doesn't improve. For that sort of money I'd expect a carbon or titanium fuselage like Armstrong.

I dont understand that they didnt go 1-piece / monobloc plane, or at least 1 piece frontwing/fuselage. Especially since slingshot doesnt believe in shimming anyway. The performance difference is quite noticable (having tested the exact same carbon frontwing with an alu fuselage and 1-piece carbon), and its a lot stronger if done right. Alu fuselages kept bending on me, carbon is bulletproof!!

I suppose transport is an argument (and possibly a good one at that..), but the biggest F-One wing has 110 wingspan and 2200cm2, and also has a monoblock construction up until the mast connection. Its just the back half of the fuselage which is screwed on, but that bit doesnt take that much force.

Why? Modular system for 3 sports (can't be one piece). It would be very expensive to offer a product like Lokefoil system for the casual user. Carbon fuselage are far from bulletproof. I have seen some pictures of split carbon fuselage. You can ask the designer of F4 and Starboard why they don't offer them in carbon. The longer the fuse, the greater the problem. Forget about any impact issues. The Phantasm wind foiling series will have 873 fuse (87.3 cm). Funny thing about transport; I read yesterday on a German website offering the Phantasm series and the translation is: "The mast connection to fuselage is very tight. That is why the foil is not necessarily suitable for removing the mast from the fuselage. It is better to dismantle the front wing for transport." No first hand experience on the kite foils, so I can't comment on that.

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sunsetsailboards said..

dejavu said..

sunsetsailboards said..
i don't know that we need to be shaming people for their purchases... either being cheap or spendy. some people just like nicer things and some are more frugal. Slingshot Hover Glide does not provide 90-95% of possible performance sorry. While foils like the i76 are still relevant, it is now about 3 years old, and we've seen how much development has happened in that time frame. I basically earned to foil on the i76 and still think it's a good wing, but I've also ridden better... much better.

I could see the immediate impact when my girlfriend switched from SS HG to Fanatic Aero HA for winging... the upwind angle, speed, and stability were apparent on the first reach.

one of my gripes about SS early on was weight... at that point i didn't care if it even performed better, I just wanted lighter. The 1/2 mile walk to the water from the car influenced that.

Some people show up to the beach in a Tesla w/ old ass gear. Others show up in beaters w/ shiny new carbon foils. Their life, their choice.

You mentioned the Fanatic Aero HA wings -- where I am these foils (aluminium masts) are in the same ballpark price-wise as the SS Hover Glide foils, which are about $700 to $1,500 less expensive than the foils with carbon masts. The Kujira foils (aluminium masts) are again $700 to $1,500 less than the foils with carbon masts (although you can pay considerably more and get a carbon mast).

Are you saying that these less expensive foils (SS, Fanatic, Takuma and others) can't get within a few percentage points of the performance of the significantly more expensive foils? Your comments about the Fanatic foils seem to contradict this. My comments were not restricted to the Hover Glide foils but rather to the bang for the buck that some foils offer when compared to the more expensive ones -- IMO this has nothing to do with "shaming".

Like I said -- if you have the financial wherewithal to buy whatever you want, then who cares, go ahead. All I was saying is that there are some very good foils out there that are very competitive performance-wise with the expensive foils -- they may not be as light or have quite the build quality but for a lot of people that's not particularly important because they suspect that the technology and designs will be (and are) changing rapidly as the foiling sports grow -- meaning they'll upgrade in a year or two anyway. One tends to take a bigger hit on resale for the expensive stuff percentage-wise (a 40% hit on the resale of a $2,500 foil is a lot more money than a 40% hit on a $1,500 foil). Fortunately for me, I don't have to walk half a mile to the water -- if I did I'd probably be buying foils with carbon masts too!

my comments were intended to point out that maybe it's not so friendly to make fun people for spending more money (or less money) on a foil regardless of skill level. I know we're all just having fun here, but people chiming in that someone who spend $2.5k for a carbon foil and can't even jibe yet must have fell for hype, etc, or that there's no point in spending more $$ for something other than X-Brand because some guy somewhere shreds on it. i've found foiling, and especially wing foiling, to be extremely tribal, and people really get into brands. Perhaps it's the non-cross-compatability b/w foil parts. not sure if this is the same everywhere or just here in San Francisco Bay Area.

I agree with you that there are great foils at many price points. my 95% performance comment was with regard to SS HG specifically, I think it's long in the tooth, and while state of the art at the time (2-3 years ago), now you can get better foils for a small price premium. I still think it's good value bang for the buck currently, especially for the careful person (like me) who is willing to maintain the parts and make sure all the fasteners are tight. I am a Slingshot/Fanatic/SAB retailer, and I've tried a decent amount of stuff while learning and teaching windsurf foiling and wingfoiling, and I've seen lots of beginners struggle with gear that is hard to use whether it be cheap or expensive. I wish the Slingshot FWing package offered a longer fuselage option, as I think the pitch stability of the short fuse makes learning harder for many people. The Slingshot FWind package is still a nice foil for wind foiling IMO.

Anyway, will be interested to see how good the Phantasm range is when it finally arrives. Will the masts be stiff? Also interested in the final production weight. First numbers I've heard are very light, but we'll see if that's actually the reality.

Wyatt Miller said that the whole set (one piece pedestal 103 wide) is 4.4 kg. The mast is 2.6kg. Compare that to Moses full 12k race mast (107) which is 2.476kg with deep tuttle / no pedestal. Not the lightest, but not bad at all.

"Wyatt Miller said that the whole set (one piece pedestal 103 wide) is 4.4 kg. The mast is 2.6kg. Compare that to Moses full 12k race mast (107) which is 2.476kg with deep tuttle / no pedestal. Not the lightest, but not bad at all."

I've never used the Moses/SAB foils so I don't personally know, however, I have heard that the long Moses masts aren't stiff enough for the larger front wings ie. Moses 1100 and maybe the 9500 -- they are fine for the much smaller in area kite foils. Supposedly the Phantasm masts are much stiffer and will handle these large wings and perhaps that is why they weigh more. Can anyone comment on this?

Select to expand quote

dejavu said..
"Wyatt Miller said that the whole set (one piece pedestal 103 wide) is 4.4 kg. The mast is 2.6kg. Compare that to Moses full 12k race mast (107) which is 2.476kg with deep tuttle / no pedestal. Not the lightest, but not bad at all."

I've never used the Moses/SAB foils so I don't personally know, however, I have heard that the long Moses masts aren't stiff enough for the larger front wings ie. Moses 1100 and maybe the 9500 -- they are fine for the much smaller in area kite foils. Supposedly the Phantasm masts are much stiffer and will handle these large wings and perhaps that is why they weigh more. Can anyone comment on this?

Just for clarification, I was just comparing 12k mast (Phantasm vs Moses Race 107). The Moses Race 107 is stiff and can't be used with the 1100 wings. The rest of Moses mast are not 12K.

I got my hands on a Phantasm 102 foil and a Sabfoil 101 foil. The Phantasm fuselage is more chunky than the Sabfoil so I'm guessing a lot stronger, but heavier. I tested the mast stiffness, the Phantasm is 30% stiffer in twist and just under 20% in flex.
But, the Sabfoil is designed as a freeride kitefoil mast and is lighter so the total foil weight is less. The construction of the Phantasm is probably an overkill for kitefoil but an advantage for wingfoil and windfoil.

Hello,

at first with the preliminary flyer that slingshot release I was really interested by the phantasm. Since with delay, price and wing availabiIity, I started changing my mind as a refined I76 will stay a 76 not sure the upgrade will be really noticeable except the drag reduction at the fuselage connection.
I would have prefer a solution to allow HG owner to use the carbon mast with there original set of wing and been able to add really new wing like high aspect.
now let's talk about price, with delay on shipping the probably that the production is in Asia is high and as Sonic inChina is the actual go to for foil manufacturing we can start from there and try to understood why European foil are less expensive like Alpin foil/AFS/Lokefoil/SAB. The only option is that's man hrs rate in 10years grow so much in China that Europe are now a low cost area. yes I forgot to say that 10years ago I was working near Sonic factory for composite manufacturing and more particularly Moth that give me a good idea of the number and to know that big factor are not the few extra carbon layers .
Base on this and to reduce carbon print impact that already high with composite my next foil upgrade will be certainly source locally with brand that also manufacturer and who give me the feeling of not being only a wallet full of money that you full with good commercial information