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Thanks for that. I'm thinking of getting the 92 kitemast to go winging with Moses 1100 and windfoiling with the 790. Phantasm windfoiling masts are too long for my liking, so any input on whether the phantasm 92 kitemast is stiff and durable enough is welcome. The Moses 82 works fine for winging, but not for windfoiling with my kit.

I want the really tall Phantasm masts! I've been winging with 10 cm adapter on my Lokefoil to effectively give me a 102cm mast. Even that extra height made it easier to go fast through heavy chop and not worry about wing tip lift when gybing with a 940mm wing span front wing.

I think the Phantasm 92 mast is just as stiff and durable as most carbon masts. I just don't think the marketing from Slingshot is justified:

"The stiffest carbon mast on the market results in the most predictable ride no matter your speed or style"

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simonp123 said..

Thanks for that. I'm thinking of getting the 92 kitemast to go winging with Moses 1100 and windfoiling with the 790. Phantasm windfoiling masts are too long for my liking, so any input on whether the phantasm 92 kitemast is stiff and durable enough is welcome. The Moses 82 works fine for winging, but not for windfoiling with my kit.

I want the really tall Phantasm masts! I've been winging with 10 cm adapter on my Lokefoil to effectively give me a 102cm mast. Even that extra height made it easier to go fast through heavy chop and not worry about wing tip lift when gybing with a 940mm wing span front wing.

I think the Phantasm 92 mast is just as stiff and durable as most carbon masts. I just don't think the marketing from Slingshot is justified:

"The stiffest carbon mast on the market results in the most predictable ride no matter your speed or style"

Thanks for all the info on the new Phantasm stuff, I am eagerly awaiting their windfoil release. To clarify, we are talking here about their KITE mast, right? From a marketing blurb that leaked a while back, it looks like there would be a different WIND foil mast that looks broader at the base and at the fuse.

So their windfoil masts could be stiffer than their kite.

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tswei99 said..

simonp123 said..

Thanks for that. I'm thinking of getting the 92 kitemast to go winging with Moses 1100 and windfoiling with the 790. Phantasm windfoiling masts are too long for my liking, so any input on whether the phantasm 92 kitemast is stiff and durable enough is welcome. The Moses 82 works fine for winging, but not for windfoiling with my kit.

I want the really tall Phantasm masts! I've been winging with 10 cm adapter on my Lokefoil to effectively give me a 102cm mast. Even that extra height made it easier to go fast through heavy chop and not worry about wing tip lift when gybing with a 940mm wing span front wing.

I think the Phantasm 92 mast is just as stiff and durable as most carbon masts. I just don't think the marketing from Slingshot is justified:

"The stiffest carbon mast on the market results in the most predictable ride no matter your speed or style"

Thanks for all the info on the new Phantasm stuff, I am eagerly awaiting their windfoil release. To clarify, we are talking here about their KITE mast, right? From a marketing blurb that leaked a while back, it looks like there would be a different WIND foil mast that looks broader at the base and at the fuse.

So their windfoil masts could be stiffer than their kite.

Right, but sadly they won't be doing a windfoil mast in the 80-90 cm range. No chop where I sail and centred straps, so don't want the 103 Mast.

Here's confirmation that the Moses surf foils (i.e. W1100) will work with the Phantasm fuse and stab. For those looking for a long stiff mast to use with something like the W1100 for both windfoiling and winging, then this is an option. Apparently there will be separate Phantasm foils for both windfoiling and winging.

Interesting that Moses went to the effort to make their foils NOT compatible with Slingshot only for Slingshot to turn around and adapt to Moses' standard.

Anybody riding a Phantasm yet? I know that they are not coming out until the spring (windsurf), rather from a Kite on a board (not ideal with fuse length). Anybody thinking about upgrading?

My dealer was quoting Phantasm at a high price and avail in late April so I decided to look for alternatives and went with F4 free ride carbon and glad I did. It is radically more stiff than aluminum SS, wing is similar to i76, maybe a bit slower to lift but a bit faster as well with better breach performance. F4 is a local SF Bay company which is nice for me and I think they have distribution in Europe now.

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tswei99 said..
My dealer was quoting Phantasm at a high price and avail in late April so I decided to look for alternatives and went with F4 free ride carbon and glad I did. It is radically more stiff than aluminum SS, wing is similar to i76, maybe a bit slower to lift but a bit faster as well with better breach performance. F4 is a local SF Bay company which is nice for me and I think they have distribution in Europe now.

Release date isn't until earliest May. Price should be about the same @ USD 2100-2200. Choice of wings and mast strength would be deciding factor. Does F4 make their products in the USA?

I think the Phantasm (Slingshot) will offer a number of interchangeable masts and fuselages of varying lengths for both wind and wing foiling. The good news is that you can also use the Moses surf foils with these fuselages (Moses 1100 and 9500).

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ZeroVix said..

tswei99 said..
My dealer was quoting Phantasm at a high price and avail in late April so I decided to look for alternatives and went with F4 free ride carbon and glad I did. It is radically more stiff than aluminum SS, wing is similar to i76, maybe a bit slower to lift but a bit faster as well with better breach performance. F4 is a local SF Bay company which is nice for me and I think they have distribution in Europe now.

Release date isn't until earliest May. Price should be about the same @ USD 2100-2200. Choice of wings and mast strength would be deciding factor. Does F4 make their products in the USA?

Their dates have slipped many times on Phantasm and price quoted to me was well north of that figure, so I went with F4. I really only need two wings (1400 &1720) plus they have a wing fuselage if I ever go in that direction. Their engineering is top notch and on par w/ Starboard IMHO

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tswei99 said..

ZeroVix said..

tswei99 said..
My dealer was quoting Phantasm at a high price and avail in late April so I decided to look for alternatives and went with F4 free ride carbon and glad I did. It is radically more stiff than aluminum SS, wing is similar to i76, maybe a bit slower to lift but a bit faster as well with better breach performance. F4 is a local SF Bay company which is nice for me and I think they have distribution in Europe now.

Release date isn't until earliest May. Price should be about the same @ USD 2100-2200. Choice of wings and mast strength would be deciding factor. Does F4 make their products in the USA?

Their dates have slipped many times on Phantasm and price quoted to me was well north of that figure, so I went with F4. I really only need two wings (1400 &1720) plus they have a wing fuselage if I ever go in that direction. Their engineering is top notch and on par w/ Starboard IMHO

Why did you choose F4 over Starboard? Most seem now days to be more of a SB fanboy. I like the Moses 1100 wing, but not to thrilled with the non-race Moses mast. Options would be the 1100 wing with Phantasm mast/fuse if it ever comes out, F4 free race with 1700 wing or be like most and do something with SB. I weigh 115kg, light/light wind, flat water and need a locked in feel.

I was considering the Starboard SuperCruiser, but SB does not have a twin track pedestal mast. They have ones for kite/wing, but not for wind. And the SuperCruiser system does not have higher aspect wings that work with that fuse. Having pretty extensive experience on the SSi76 wing, I wanted something similar for medium to high wind, SuperCruiser might actually be a bit too big. And then I wanted a slightly larger and higher aspect wing for low wind (10-15 knots) and for it to work w/ same mast. F4 has a 1720 wing that I will be getting soon.

My two boards are SS Wizard 114 and Levi 150, both having twin tracks. I almost went all Starboard late last year, but am now convinced that twin track is the way to go. I can feel difference in very small changes (like 0.5 cm) foil mast position. It just seems like there are so many variables to optimizing this I wanted that flexibility. I think Starboard having two mounting systems really hurts them. I'd like to see them consolidate around twin track.

F4 is really the only maker that has what I wanted right now for a reasonable price.

I am 90 KG, sail 10-25 knots, mostly flat water. The F4 Freeride is surprisingly stable. I think this comes mostly from the mast stiffness.

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Samkyo said..
Do you think they will do an adaptator to use phantasm Aluminiumfuselage with hover glide aluminium mast as it has been done with Moses?
Could be nice to avoid extra mast budget and have a crossover option on both system to complet my actual system instead of replacing It.

Don't know, but I have a machining center :-).
Just ordered a SS 114 and all the gear. I wanted the phantasm, but I was told delivery in the US could be in May, but i could see that sliding a month or two, and I'm not getting any younger, so pulled the trigger on what I can get right now. Should be on the water next week. Started windsurfing in 75', raced division 2 boards in the 80's. Last board was a 125 tabou rocket with a million hours on it. Time to teach this old dog some new tricks.

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tswei99 said..
I was considering the Starboard SuperCruiser, but SB does not have a twin track pedestal mast. They have ones for kite/wing, but not for wind. And the SuperCruiser system does not have higher aspect wings that work with that fuse. Having pretty extensive experience on the SSi76 wing, I wanted something similar for medium to high wind, SuperCruiser might actually be a bit too big. And then I wanted a slightly larger and higher aspect wing for low wind (10-15 knots) and for it to work w/ same mast. F4 has a 1720 wing that I will be getting soon.

My two boards are SS Wizard 114 and Levi 150, both having twin tracks. I almost went all Starboard late last year, but am now convinced that twin track is the way to go. I can feel difference in very small changes (like 0.5 cm) foil mast position. It just seems like there are so many variables to optimizing this I wanted that flexibility. I think Starboard having two mounting systems really hurts them. I'd like to see them consolidate around twin track.

F4 is really the only maker that has what I wanted right now for a reasonable price.

I am 90 KG, sail 10-25 knots, mostly flat water. The F4 Freeride is surprisingly stable. I think this comes mostly from the mast stiffness.

Thank you for the details. You are right on track regarding the SC and SB not having the track system. It is the future IMHO. My boards are currently all DT. I know that in the future I will switch to a track mounted system. Dealer at F4 is steering me towards the light wind racing setup because of the geometry of my formula board. I am a recreational sailer and honestly not high performance oriented at all. If Moses had a decent mast (non race), the 1100 would be the way I would be going. I like the F4 HM carbon mast, but if I get the DT now it will be an issue for future track system. I don't think that F4 make an adapter for DT to track. I guess that I could pick one up from Moses or the expensive Italian company. Again, not optimal and would rather have a one piece system. The other issue with the Free Ride system you have is how much race oriented can you go with the 85cm fuse. I think you made a wise choice with your setup.

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ZeroVix said..

tswei99 said..
I was considering the Starboard SuperCruiser, but SB does not have a twin track pedestal mast. They have ones for kite/wing, but not for wind. And the SuperCruiser system does not have higher aspect wings that work with that fuse. Having pretty extensive experience on the SSi76 wing, I wanted something similar for medium to high wind, SuperCruiser might actually be a bit too big. And then I wanted a slightly larger and higher aspect wing for low wind (10-15 knots) and for it to work w/ same mast. F4 has a 1720 wing that I will be getting soon.

My two boards are SS Wizard 114 and Levi 150, both having twin tracks. I almost went all Starboard late last year, but am now convinced that twin track is the way to go. I can feel difference in very small changes (like 0.5 cm) foil mast position. It just seems like there are so many variables to optimizing this I wanted that flexibility. I think Starboard having two mounting systems really hurts them. I'd like to see them consolidate around twin track.

F4 is really the only maker that has what I wanted right now for a reasonable price.

I am 90 KG, sail 10-25 knots, mostly flat water. The F4 Freeride is surprisingly stable. I think this comes mostly from the mast stiffness.

Thank you for the details. You are right on track regarding the SC and SB not having the track system. It is the future IMHO. My boards are currently all DT. I know that in the future I will switch to a track mounted system. Dealer at F4 is steering me towards the light wind racing setup because of the geometry of my formula board. I am a recreational sailer and honestly not high performance oriented at all. If Moses had a decent mast (non race), the 1100 would be the way I would be going. I like the F4 HM carbon mast, but if I get the DT now it will be an issue for future track system. I don't think that F4 make an adapter for DT to track. I guess that I could pick one up from Moses or the expensive Italian company. Again, not optimal and would rather have a one piece system. The other issue with the Free Ride system you have is how much race oriented can you go with the 85cm fuse. I think you made a wise choice with your setup.

You could always get the pedestal mast in the future when you are ready and just sell the DT mast.

Makes sense to put a race foil on a formula board because of geometry. I guess then the question is how long you will keep formula board. I've already moved from an foil race board to a more free ride design (SS Levi 150). I may have lost a tiny bit of upwind angle, early lift, and wind range but the Levi is SOOO much easier to handle to and from the water and actually pretty maneuverable for a board its size. Plus I can sail a smaller simpler sail, for me its worth the tradeoff.

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tswei99 said..

ZeroVix said..

tswei99 said..
I was considering the Starboard SuperCruiser, but SB does not have a twin track pedestal mast. They have ones for kite/wing, but not for wind. And the SuperCruiser system does not have higher aspect wings that work with that fuse. Having pretty extensive experience on the SSi76 wing, I wanted something similar for medium to high wind, SuperCruiser might actually be a bit too big. And then I wanted a slightly larger and higher aspect wing for low wind (10-15 knots) and for it to work w/ same mast. F4 has a 1720 wing that I will be getting soon.

My two boards are SS Wizard 114 and Levi 150, both having twin tracks. I almost went all Starboard late last year, but am now convinced that twin track is the way to go. I can feel difference in very small changes (like 0.5 cm) foil mast position. It just seems like there are so many variables to optimizing this I wanted that flexibility. I think Starboard having two mounting systems really hurts them. I'd like to see them consolidate around twin track.

F4 is really the only maker that has what I wanted right now for a reasonable price.

I am 90 KG, sail 10-25 knots, mostly flat water. The F4 Freeride is surprisingly stable. I think this comes mostly from the mast stiffness.

Thank you for the details. You are right on track regarding the SC and SB not having the track system. It is the future IMHO. My boards are currently all DT. I know that in the future I will switch to a track mounted system. Dealer at F4 is steering me towards the light wind racing setup because of the geometry of my formula board. I am a recreational sailer and honestly not high performance oriented at all. If Moses had a decent mast (non race), the 1100 would be the way I would be going. I like the F4 HM carbon mast, but if I get the DT now it will be an issue for future track system. I don't think that F4 make an adapter for DT to track. I guess that I could pick one up from Moses or the expensive Italian company. Again, not optimal and would rather have a one piece system. The other issue with the Free Ride system you have is how much race oriented can you go with the 85cm fuse. I think you made a wise choice with your setup.

You could always get the pedestal mast in the future when you are ready and just sell the DT mast.

Makes sense to put a race foil on a formula board because of geometry. I guess then the question is how long you will keep formula board. I've already moved from an foil race board to a more free ride design (SS Levi 150). I may have lost a tiny bit of upwind angle, early lift, and wind range but the Levi is SOOO much easier to handle to and from the water and actually pretty maneuverable for a board its size. Plus I can sail a smaller simpler sail, for me its worth the tradeoff.

Bingo. You nailed it right on. My formula board is a 2015 Gaastra Vapor 3 and here is the kicker... it is brand new.. I got it from the Gaastra team manager at a good price (maybe not) early last year. I really wanted the Levi 160 with track mount. Keep in mind that I weigh 115kg and the Gaastra was interesting because of the volume 178l & price & availability at the time. If I had to do it over again, I would try to find the largest foil board with track mount, get an F4 one piece pedestal mast with the 1720 and move down on wing size. The other issue is the 100cm board is a pain to carry. Except the Levi 150/160, there aren't too many low wind boards. The Wizard V3 130 is nice, just too little volume when the wind dies. I like the new Severne Alien 155 coming out, but expensive and again no track system. You are on the correct path. Now I need to decide what to do.

We're getting a bit off topic, but I do want to praise the SS Levi boards. I didn't know what to expect but wound up getting a used one off a friend. The volume is shifted very far back and the construction is light so it feels MUCH smaller than it is. The deck is nice and flat and well covered with grip so getting if flying and then getting into a comfy reaching stance is a snap.

I also owned a Wizard 125 (light construction) and the Levi 150 feel almost the same in terms of maneuver and ease of use. So by moving from W125-->Levi 150 I gained easy uphaul capability with big sails and didn't lose any feel or comfort.

At 90KG I can easily uphaul a 7.0 Hydra Pro (also highly recommended) in salt or fresh water.

I think the other big boy twin track board that folks seem to like on this forum is Fanatic Stingray 140

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swoosh said..
Aren't these just Moses foils with a slingshot sticker on them?

Absolutely not. For two years yes. But there was a fall out so they parted ways.
Slingshot has spent the last two years designing the Phantasm range.

The Wind foil range will be released on May the 4th. 103cm mast 872 fuse and plenty of wing options.
This is an international launch do keep an eye out for the social media launch.

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horey69 said..
The Wind foil range will be released on May the 4th. 103cm mast 872 fuse and plenty of wing options.
This is an international launch do keep an eye out for the social media launch.

Yep May 4th is the official date and "May the fourth be with us"

lots of different mast lengths, wing combos for both wind foil and wing foil... exciting stuff.

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thedoor said..

CoreAS said..
From my understanding the windfoil phantasm is still being tweaked, and there should be a winging foil phantasm system as well.

Obviously the fuse length is pretty important for windfoiling, but the kiters got it first, they're more of them

Danglers unite

danglers! Thats awesome.

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BSN101 said..

thedoor said..

CoreAS said..
From my understanding the windfoil phantasm is still being tweaked, and there should be a winging foil phantasm system as well.

Obviously the fuse length is pretty important for windfoiling, but the kiters got it first, they're more of them

Danglers unite

danglers! Thats awesome.

Now there is a debate, which foil discipline has the most participants? If you go by the strength of the Seabreeze forums, windfoiling is the strongest, then winging, then kitefoiling. I suspect winging may overtake the other two due cost and ease of use.

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airsail said..

BSN101 said..

thedoor said..

CoreAS said..
From my understanding the windfoil phantasm is still being tweaked, and there should be a winging foil phantasm system as well.

Obviously the fuse length is pretty important for windfoiling, but the kiters got it first, they're more of them

Danglers unite

danglers! Thats awesome.

Now there is a debate, which foil discipline has the most participants? If you go by the strength of the Seabreeze forums, windfoiling is the strongest, then winging, then kitefoiling. I suspect winging may overtake the other two due cost and ease of use.

Wing foiling has to be winning for sure. It would be a tight race for 2nd between windfoil and kitefoil

www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=35576.0;attach=104311


www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=35576.0;attach=104311


are these the details?

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thedoor said..

airsail said..

BSN101 said..

thedoor said..

CoreAS said..
From my understanding the windfoil phantasm is still being tweaked, and there should be a winging foil phantasm system as well.

Obviously the fuse length is pretty important for windfoiling, but the kiters got it first, they're more of them

Danglers unite

danglers! Thats awesome.

Now there is a debate, which foil discipline has the most participants? If you go by the strength of the Seabreeze forums, windfoiling is the strongest, then winging, then kitefoiling. I suspect winging may overtake the other two due cost and ease of use.

Wing foiling has to be winning for sure. It would be a tight race for 2nd between windfoil and kitefoil

Winging for sure right now!

in the US slingshot also has a sizable share in the wake foiling department as well. Up until the wing came along kite equipment/foils sales were firmly in #1 position.
Cannot wait to use a carbon foil again, Christmas is coming early

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simonp123 said..

Thanks for that. I'm thinking of getting the 92 kitemast to go winging with Moses 1100 and windfoiling with the 790. Phantasm windfoiling masts are too long for my liking, so any input on whether the phantasm 92 kitemast is stiff and durable enough is welcome. The Moses 82 works fine for winging, but not for windfoiling with my kit.

I want the really tall Phantasm masts! I've been winging with 10 cm adapter on my Lokefoil to effectively give me a 102cm mast. Even that extra height made it easier to go fast through heavy chop and not worry about wing tip lift when gybing with a 940mm wing span front wing.

I think the Phantasm 92 mast is just as stiff and durable as most carbon masts. I just don't think the marketing from Slingshot is justified:

"The stiffest carbon mast on the market results in the most predictable ride no matter your speed or style"

Have you tried to flex one of the Phantasm masts?.....they are extremely stiff.

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Have you tried to flex one of the Phantasm masts?.....they are extremely stiff.

I've got the Phantasm Kite 633 with the 92 mast. I don't think it's particularly stiff at all. It's certainly not as stiff as my Lokefoil LK1 Performance (92cm) or my friends 95cm Starboard carbon mast. I'm not convinced it's any stiffer than the Slingshot Hover Glide 90cm aluminium mast either.

The flex is noticeable in the yaw direction and roll directions when the mast is in the board and I try moving the front wing. Perhaps they mean it's stiff compared to other kite foil masts. I'm hoping the 103W mast is much stiffer.

BTW, if you try flexing a foil mast with your hands out of the board it always feels stiff. The real test is to mount it in the board and try to flex it using the front wing for leverage.

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I have the 102 mast and run it kiting not wind foiling.
When I fit a Moses 633 I feel the yaw slip, this is a very well known charactertic of the 633, however the 102 package comes with the short fuse at 653 this only adds to the yaw slip.
When I swap back to the 730 it's doesn't happen.
Why did you decide to run the kite foil for wind foiling?
I see from your avatar you have a wizard, but you can't be running it on that due to it having a Tuttle.
The wide body Phantasm comes in an 87, 103 & 125cm. There is also a jack plate coming that allows the Phantasm to be fitted to any Tuttle connection.
We also have an aluminium Phantasm
Mast(15% lighter then the Hover Glide) in the wide body you could compare it to the carbon or standard HG. It's available in the 87 and 103 only.
I'd love to here your feed back once you have ridden the wide body Phantasm either carbon or aluminium range.

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horey69 said..

Why did you decide to run the kite foil for wind foiling?

I bought the Phantasm Kite 633 for winging. As I understand it the Phantasm Wingsurf package will use the same 92cm mast. I've also been using my Lokefoil windfoil for winging as well. The plan is to standardise on the Phantasm stuff for my winging and windfoiling.

The Slingshot marketing for this mast claims:

"The stiffest carbon mast on the market results in the most predictable ride no matter your speed or style"

That's not true from what I've seen unless I should only be comparing it against other kite foil masts.

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tswei99 said..
I was considering the Starboard SuperCruiser, but SB does not have a twin track pedestal mast. They have ones for kite/wing, but not for wind. And the SuperCruiser system does not have higher aspect wings that work with that fuse. Having pretty extensive experience on the SSi76 wing, I wanted something similar for medium to high wind, SuperCruiser might actually be a bit too big. And then I wanted a slightly larger and higher aspect wing for low wind (10-15 knots) and for it to work w/ same mast.

I was also looking into Starboard cruiser and it seems that you may be able use their monolithic carbon mast with plate and supercruiser wing. Here are some of the images and link.
pagestudio.s3.theshoppad.net/starboardfoils/362833c26aa56e68d6f985e11ff785d8.pdf