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RoyStuart said..

MickPC said..

thedrip said..

MickPC said...

Ted the Kiwi said..
When it's big I like volume so I can get of trouble in a hurry. The Drip is making far too much sense. He needs a new name - something more befitting. Most are just after survival and who can blame them. I would not even want to be out there. Would be shutting myself just standing on the beach watching

Yeah this board is for 12 foot face waves though. It will be fine for that, I thought he was talking much bigger waves you need a gun for. I'm happy on my 6'2 or 6'4 in double overhead

I think Roy is aiming at much bigger waves, mick. I seem to remember him mentioning 24 foot faces which is starting to head towards gunnier boards. I would still be on my 7' in that size. Double head I would be happy to surf one of my 5'10" twinnies if the wave was suitable. That's the other thing - size is so relevant. I have mates come from Perth and go for surfs and they call things 8', yet if you claimed that in the pub the boys would slap you for exaggerating a pleasant day of solid 4 footers. 6' inji - chilling, man; 6' womb - I want my mummy (and why did I paddle out? Why? Why why?).

Gotta head off to work...but yeah I've only ever snapped 5 leggies & 4 of them were along the Ellenbrook stretch of coast. Plenty of power in those waves

Fascinating that you have to go to work.. anything else off topic of a personal nature which you'd like to share with the group? How was your last poo?

Anyone can snap a leggie once it has a small cut or is slightly perished... it proves nothing and we don't even know or care if it is true or not. The biggest waves I've ridden in the past 20 years were all without a legrope by the way.

This was in reply to thedrip Roy. I mentioned I would be away from keyboard in the spontaneous moment of leaving for work. I guess because it was on my mind & it also explains forum silence from my part. However I'm happy you find it fascinating & I have noticed you've taken a keen interest in my posts, even my bowel motions apparently.

Regarding snapped leggies, I was taken back in time to a happy place by thedrips's mention of one of the waves I used to surf a lot in the 90's along my favourite summertime stretch of coast. My post was acknowledging the power of the place, not trying to "puff" myself up with talk of breaking a legrope, it is one of the most humbling places you could surf...no I would have told the story of the one other legrope I broke somewhere else if I wanted to talk myself up.

And I actually would have had a positive comment in regard to your reply to Ricardo which did sound good in theory. But I can see you've pigeon holed me as the forum troll. If that's what floats your boat, so be it.

Aaah the 90s. Those halcyon years before the crowds went stupid. We must have been surfing together at times, although I was mainly on the other waves. That joint scares me with any size on it.

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MickPC said..
But I can see you've pigeon holed me as the forum troll. If that's what floats your boat, so be it.

Of course you are a valuable forum member but have been typing a lot of crap on here, it is borderline trolling when misquoting others to make a point.

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thedrip said..

So the tail, being a displacement hull, creates a drag point to enhance control? Makes sense I guess.

Not exactly, the tail isn't intended to create drag.

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My understanding is that pintails have been popular for forever in guns as the low surface area planes at higher speed and makes the board more controllable than something like a fish board which has a wide tail to plane earlier, but gets skittish. I guess our tow boards do the same thing, narrow to enhance control at speed.

Yes, although it's the zone just behind the leading edge of the wetted surface area which produces most of the planing lift, because that's where the highest water pressure is. pressure drops off rapidly towards the tail. So, a pintail can plane just as early as planing lift depends more upon the area forward rather than the tail area.

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And the rails at the back, sounds like the way nose rider rails are wrapped by the water, and once again it is for control, without sacrificing too much outright speed? I think nose rider rails are out and out stall points though aren't they? So a bit different but similar.

Sort of similar although noserider rails are designed to pull the tail down whereas mine are more neutral.

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RoyStuart said..

MickPC said..
But I can see you've pigeon holed me as the forum troll. If that's what floats your boat, so be it.

Of course you are a valuable forum member but have been typing a lot of crap on here, it is borderline trolling when misquoting others to make a point.

Your boards could be the best Roy but with your attitude I wouldn't touch one,your shaping skills or ideas may be before there time,but you really need to complete some form of marketing class.MickPC has been a valued member of this forum for a long time and calling him a troll laughable.

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Macaha said..

RoyStuart said..

MickPC said..
But I can see you've pigeon holed me as the forum troll. If that's what floats your boat, so be it.

Of course you are a valuable forum member but have been typing a lot of crap on here, it is borderline trolling when misquoting others to make a point.

Your boards could be the best Roy but with your attitude I wouldn't touch one,your shaping skills or ideas may be before there time,but you really need to complete some form of marketing class.MickPC has been a valued member of this forum for a long time and calling him a troll laughable.

Truth hurts no doubt...

I call it the way I see it just as you are.

Now you have lost

If you've got a constant soft rail which is thicker in the tail than most guns ridden today how will the board get any bite and how will the rail sink in to draw out a turn on a wave of that size,rolled rails in the tail for big waves became obsolete years ago as they didn't hang in as seen in old footage at waimea etc,is that the reason for the long drawn out pin tail.Also if the fulcrum point is much smaller doesn't that reduce the control the rider has,Id have thought that was an advantage to have that point moving over a wider area depending on speed and lift so the rider can adjust to whats in front of him such as boils,bumps and flat sections etc and not just hoping that the board will handle it

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RoyStuart said..

Ricardo1709 said..
One thing Id like to hear from Roy is- what design facets do you incorporate into your boards that make them superior to the boards ridden by big wave surfers at the moment.What are these shapers, (many who have been shaping boards for decades) doing wrong in their designs.Id like to know your theories on design in relation to your boards as this thread has had very little information on actual design theories but a hell of a lot superficial statements that this design works and that design has major problems etc- fill us in on why these designs will work compared to whats being ridden at the present.

It's a good question thanks for raising it... I've also been shaping for decades by the way.

I've written a lot about the design facets you are asking about, much of it is on my blog.

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I've been assuming this site was your blog, my mistake...............

Haha classic mate

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Ricardo1709 said..


If you've got a constant soft rail which is thicker in the tail than most guns ridden today how will the board get any bite and how will the rail sink in to draw out a turn on a wave of that size

Hi Ricardo

Softer rails sink more easily than sharp rails, and hold in better too.

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rolled rails in the tail for big waves became obsolete years ago as they didn't hang in as seen in old footage at waimea etc

Those old boards are a totally different animal, the main issue there was the planshape and bottom roll, not the rails.

Fins were a problem as well.

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Also if the fulcrum point is much smaller doesn't that reduce the control the rider has

It's not necessarily smaller it just doesn't move around as much, which greatly improves control.

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,Id have thought that was an advantage to have that point moving over a wider area depending on speed and lift so the rider can adjust to whats in front of him such as boils,bumps and flat sections etc and not just hoping that the board will handle it

No it's a huge disadvantage, when the fulcrum moves way back ( and it will do this suddenly, faster than the rider can react) then it makes the board unbalanced and causes a host of control issues.

A 'self tending' board is a wonderful thing, the rider doesn't have to wonder if the board will handle it because the board does handle it, allowing the rider to react more instinctively, leaving his attention free to plan the bigger picture.

I rest my case lol

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vanders1 said..

RoyStuart said..

Ricardo1709 said..
One thing Id like to hear from Roy is- what design facets do you incorporate into your boards that make them superior to the boards ridden by big wave surfers at the moment.What are these shapers, (many who have been shaping boards for decades) doing wrong in their designs.Id like to know your theories on design in relation to your boards as this thread has had very little information on actual design theories but a hell of a lot superficial statements that this design works and that design has major problems etc- fill us in on why these designs will work compared to whats being ridden at the present.

It's a good question thanks for raising it... I've also been shaping for decades by the way.

I've written a lot about the design facets you are asking about, much of it is on my blog.

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I've been assuming this site was your blog, my mistake...............

Lol ok the blog is over here, it's had over a million views: www.roystuart.biz/

Roy has this topic on screen and hits the refresh button every 5 seconds.

My understanding is that a displacement hull with its convex bottom shape will naturally ride lower at speed because they push through the water instead of lifting and planing over it and will actually suck on to the wave,so the faster you go the more control you will have but if you're turning from further up the board i would have thought you would need more edge on your rails as your not turning from over the fin with your back foot,so in effect a harder rail further up would help it hold its edge through a turn

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thedrip said..
Aaah the 90s. Those halcyon years before the crowds went stupid. We must have been surfing together at times, although I was mainly on the other waves. That joint scares me with any size on it.

We probably did man. That joint scares me these days, I was there 1992-1997. A year before the stupid protection began in WA. It was great in summer, coz it always had a wave & although there could be 50 peeps at Marg's & Lefties there would usually be no one in between. Gas Bay wasn't too crowded back then either, loved surfing there in summer. Otherwise I'd be at Grunters, South Point or the right hander off Margs main break

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Macaha said..

RoyStuart said..

MickPC said..
But I can see you've pigeon holed me as the forum troll. If that's what floats your boat, so be it.

Of course you are a valuable forum member but have been typing a lot of crap on here, it is borderline trolling when misquoting others to make a point.

Your boards could be the best Roy but with your attitude I wouldn't touch one,your shaping skills or ideas may be before there time,but you really need to complete some form of marketing class.MickPC has been a valued member of this forum for a long time and calling him a troll laughable.

Hey cheers Mac

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Ricardo1709 said..


My understanding is that a displacement hull with its convex bottom shape will naturally ride lower at speed because they push through the water instead of lifting and planing over it

The board is a planing hull with concave bottom and a displacement tail.

Even so called 'displacement hulls' with convex bottoms are planing craft.

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if you're turning from further up the board i would have thought you would need more edge on your rails as your not turning from over the fin with your back foot,so in effect a harder rail further up would help it hold its edge through a turn

Hard edges are not needed I assure you, in fact the rails hold better without them.

some cases , actually a lot , edges will cause lift in a planning situation.

naish and starboard are doing this. their race boards just about fully edged

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RoyStuart said...

Macaha said..

RoyStuart said..

MickPC said..
But I can see you've pigeon holed me as the forum troll. If that's what floats your boat, so be it.

Of course you are a valuable forum member but have been typing a lot of crap on here, it is borderline trolling when misquoting others to make a point.

Your boards could be the best Roy but with your attitude I wouldn't touch one,your shaping skills or ideas may be before there time,but you really need to complete some form of marketing class.MickPC has been a valued member of this forum for a long time and calling him a troll laughable.

Truth hurts no doubt...

I call it the way I see it just as you are.

... After seeing Paul fisher rip on a dick shaped board, I have started thinking all this design stuff that most shapers blabber on about is mostly bull****. All boards work it's just some work better than others. I don't think Mickpc was having a dig mate .. But I do think that if you are going to make such out there statements about design you better grow a thicker skin. Calling people trolls is pretty poor form..especially when the biggest troll is obviously you.

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Ctngoodvibes said..

RoyStuart said...

Macaha said..

RoyStuart said..

MickPC said..
But I can see you've pigeon holed me as the forum troll. If that's what floats your boat, so be it.

Of course you are a valuable forum member but have been typing a lot of crap on here, it is borderline trolling when misquoting others to make a point.

Your boards could be the best Roy but with your attitude I wouldn't touch one,your shaping skills or ideas may be before there time,but you really need to complete some form of marketing class.MickPC has been a valued member of this forum for a long time and calling him a troll laughable.

Truth hurts no doubt...

I call it the way I see it just as you are.

... After seeing Paul fisher rip on a dick shaped board, I have started thinking all this design stuff that most shapers blabber on about is mostly bull****. All boards work it's just some work better than others. I don't think Mickpc was having a dig mate .. But I do think that if you are going to make such out there statements about design you better grow a thicker skin. Calling people trolls is pretty poor form..especially when the biggest troll is obviously you.

Whatever... I draw the line at people deliberately misquoting me to make a point.

It's pretty lame and illogical to suggest that I get a 'thicker skin' while whingeing because I said that someone was trolling.

Anyway what 'out there' statements do you think that I've made?

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laceys lane said..
some cases , actually a lot , edges will cause lift in a planning situation.

naish and starboard are doing this. their race boards just about fully edged

Yes a hard edge will slightly increase planing lift because it makes the planing surface wider by a small amount.

Making the board wider is another way to achieve this, but really there's no shortage of planing area on any big wave board, it's how it is placed which counts.

Here is a classic example of poor fulcrum position causing a serious wipeout. The board appears to be way to light also, 40 pounds plus would be the minimum for offshores like that, 55 pounds would be more like it.

www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152672043392058

Here's another one:

-yt-cl=85114404

Im talking more about the edge for turning ,it may create lift when planing but you need an edge to hold an arc through a turn on waves with power and speed-especially as Roy says the surfers surfs forward on his boards,rolled rails id have thought would not hang in as well as one with edge,if naish is making race boards fully edged doesn't that back my thoughts ,they're designed for speed thats why they have rails like that so they bite and increase forward momentum instead of being pushed downwind- edge = bite =holding a line

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Ricardo1709 said..
Im talking more about the edge for turning ,it may create lift when planing but you need an edge to hold an arc through a turn on waves with power and speed-especially as Roy says the surfers surfs forward on his boards,rolled rails id have thought would not hang in as well as one with edge,if naish is making race boards fully edged doesn't that back my thoughts ,they're designed for speed thats why they have rails like that so they bite and increase forward momentum instead of being pushed downwind- edge = bite =holding a line

I've done it both ways and the rails with no tucked edge hold in much better, plus they are more predictable. There's no question which is better for control.

Not sure why you are comparing with Standup paddle race boards which only do about 8mph max (except when catching a bump) and don't have to turn much.

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Macaha said..
Roy has this topic on screen and hits the refresh button every 5 seconds.

is that what you do on your art threads

Ok I wasn't comparing to stand up paddle I thought he was referring to race boards for kiting which reach speeds far in excess of what a surfer would attain-my mistake,although I still believe a hard edge will hold better than a soft rounded rail through a turn as the edge will act like a fin when its on rail

when its strong offshore most of the shaper's design skill and fabrication skill , goes straight out the window any way .

a 15 nt offshore breeze coupled with the apparent wind generated by the speed of the wave , add some chop , equals ...........lift off !!! as most boards need some nose rocker, up she goes with the wind .

Roy , may be you need to incorporate some kind of down draft aerodynamics in the noses for big waves in strong offshore conditions .


I, ll only want 50 percent of profits made for that tip old fellow .

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SandS said..

when its strong offshore most of the shaper's design skill and fabrication skill , goes straight out the window any way .

a 15 nt offshore breeze coupled with the apparent wind generated by the speed of the wave , add some chop , equals ...........lift off !!! as most boards need some nose rocker, up she goes with the wind .

Roy , may be you need to incorporate some kind of down draft aerodynamics in the noses for big waves in strong offshore conditions .


I, ll only want 50 percent of profits made for that tip old fellow .

thats great for take off.
but what happens when you're speeding along the face.

The features which I've described, plus more weight and better nose shape cure that problem even with 35 knots plus apparent wind.