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high as a kite said..
Any good tips on body drag out to deeper waters.
Tried for the first time last night and ended up with banged up shins from the wings and mast.

Haha HAAK - would have loved to have watch that !

Pain to come for me as well - I have got on the bandwagon , waiting on the gear to turn up

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high as a kite said..
Any good tips on body drag out to deeper waters.
Tried for the first time last night and ended up with banged up shins from the wings and mast.

I have the board under my arm (in front of mast, so holding more towards the front than back), foil facing away from me into the wind. I put a bit of pressure onto the mast using my ellbow to put a bit pressure on it thus keeping the foil halfway in the water, halfway out of the water. This works fine. Have tried once facing foil downwind but did not work as well (risk of being pulled over or onto the board depending on wind strenth).

Not sure this is the right technique but I can body drag upwind so can't be too wrong.

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bigtone667 said...

eppo said..

snalberski said...
Simply saying that adjusting your back foot pressure to allow the foil to rise is a shallow and incomplete description of the required action. When enough speed is achieved the foil will rise by itself. At this point the rider is required to adjust their center of gravity to keep the foil flying level, whatever the height out of the water. Ongoing mini adjustments of your center of gravity (in relationship to the foil/stabiliser pivot point) is done by moving your hips forward or backward. That in combination with small amounts of sheeting in to get lift and out to reduce height when required add up to level flying, at least for the writer.

This makes sense to me... in theory at the moment of course

It is really about working in three dimensions..... the up/down transition and your feet not being the pivot points are a BIG deal. Then once you get it, you just forget about it (except for the odd specular crash as a reminder).

Yeh okay. Looking forward to your spitfire review in time

You should master all the body dragging methods (board upwind or downwind, foil up, down or to the side) so you can deal with whatever comes your way.

This video shows probably the most effective way of dragging. I do it with my chest up near the mast. That gives me a lot more leverage so I can control board and foil position better.

It is important to go a little downwind when coming off the beach. You can go at a high upwind angle but it's slow and you tend to get pushed back by waves.

As you get out a bit deeper you can dip the foil a little into the water and get some lift and use that to accelerate.

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eddiemorgs said..

high as a kite said..
Any good tips on body drag out to deeper waters.
Tried for the first time last night and ended up with banged up shins from the wings and mast.

Haha HAAK - would have loved to have watch that !

Pain to come for me as well - I have got on the bandwagon , waiting on the gear to turn up

What i have found works really well and no fuss is to hold the foil with the trailing hand right on/infront of the small wing and drag the it behind you. Everything floats nice and high on the water while you walk/body drag out.

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Green Cherub said..

eddiemorgs said..

high as a kite said..
Any good tips on body drag out to deeper waters.
Tried for the first time last night and ended up with banged up shins from the wings and mast.

Haha HAAK - would have loved to have watch that !

Pain to come for me as well - I have got on the bandwagon , waiting on the gear to turn up

What i have found works really well and no fuss is to hold the foil with the trailing hand right on/infront of the small wing and drag the it behind you. Everything floats nice and high on the water while you walk/body drag out.

I lay at the back of the board and place my free hand on the front foot strap or just behind the foot strap and push down. Keeps clear of everything.
I even just hang to the tail and steer it where I want it. The secret is to keep the speed DOWN.

Hi Christian
The boat learning technique looks very good and opens up a wide range of weather conditions for beginners.
I am on the east coast and discussed it with a local instructor and his initial comment was the kite provides a lot of lift and thought the boat towing with low level of pull would make it harder. But he is open minded so can you add more on the boat learning technique.
Would you be open to a phone conversation with him?

I must admit you have me motivated and almost ready to fly over.

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DukeSilver said..
I'm about to buy my first foil (Zeeko Blue and White) and this thread has been a great source of info. Thanks for starting it Swavek and for all the contributors that have shared their experiences. Just heading out now to buy some full body armour .

Good choice of foil

Cheers - I think the Zeeko will be a good compromise between lowish cost and decent performance as I improve. Could have done with a foil this arvo on the river

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Gorgo said..
You should master all the body dragging methods (board upwind or downwind, foil up, down or to the side) so you can deal with whatever comes your way.

This video shows probably the most effective way of dragging. I do it with my chest up near the mast. That gives me a lot more leverage so I can control board and foil position better.

It is important to go a little downwind when coming off the beach. You can go at a high upwind angle but it's slow and you tend to get pushed back by waves.

As you get out a bit deeper you can dip the foil a little into the water and get some lift and use that to accelerate.

Thanks Gorgo

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eddiemorgs said..

high as a kite said..
Any good tips on body drag out to deeper waters.
Tried for the first time last night and ended up with banged up shins from the wings and mast.

Haha HAAK - would have loved to have watch that !

Pain to come for me as well - I have got on the bandwagon , waiting on the gear to turn up

LOL, didn't see that coming Eddie but then again didnt think i would get one either.
I swapped my Bali board for it.
Looks like there will be a couple old farts on foils when you head to Robe.
The first time out i really question if i really need to do this. Second time much the same. Third time going up wind both ways with board still on water. Going to keep the board on the water until i learn pitch control.
Let me know your progress.

Eppo said it was like the first time a chick shoved her hand down your pants
Didn't know what to do
But felt good

I used to believe I would never be able to ride a unicycle, balance on one of those tubes under a plank things or last very long on a mechanical bull.
After going through the learning stages of foiling I reakon I can do them all at the same time and while rubbing my tummy and patting my head.
Plus my artistic scores for crashing have gone up to 10's

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cauncy said..
Eppo said it was like the first time a chick shoved her hand down your pants
Didn't know what to do
But felt good

A bit more like she should have taken her teeth out before. And then her boyfriend comes and punches you while you are just relaxing.

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high as a kite said..

eddiemorgs said..

high as a kite said..
Any good tips on body drag out to deeper waters.
Tried for the first time last night and ended up with banged up shins from the wings and mast.

Haha HAAK - would have loved to have watch that !

Pain to come for me as well - I have got on the bandwagon , waiting on the gear to turn up

LOL, didn't see that coming Eddie but then again didnt think i would get one either.
I swapped my Bali board for it.
Looks like there will be a couple old farts on foils when you head to Robe.
The first time out i really question if i really need to do this. Second time much the same. Third time going up wind both ways with board still on water. Going to keep the board on the water until i learn pitch control.
Let me know your progress.

Nice work old fella! Won't see mine for a bit I am guessing. Finding some deep water among the stingers is the worry !

Will keep you posted.

Useful tip I followed for your first session was to only bolt the mast onto the board and leave the wings back in the car.

This helps you to get used to the water start as you only have the rotational effect of the mast (the bit that tries to throw you over the other side of the board) to worry about and not the lift of the wings.
Plus it also helps to get you used to manoeuvring the board in the water as when you kick the mast whilst swimming you don't cut your shins open.

It won't take long to get beyond this step (probably 15-30 mins) but it just helps to get the waterstart and travelling on the surface feeling. Then stick the wings back on and do the same thing. Removes loads of crashing (cuz who wants to spend their time crashing?)

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high as a kite said..

Gorgo said..
You should master all the body dragging methods (board upwind or downwind, foil up, down or to the side) so you can deal with whatever comes your way.

This video shows probably the most effective way of dragging. I do it with my chest up near the mast. That gives me a lot more leverage so I can control board and foil position better.

It is important to go a little downwind when coming off the beach. You can go at a high upwind angle but it's slow and you tend to get pushed back by waves.

As you get out a bit deeper you can dip the foil a little into the water and get some lift and use that to accelerate.

Thanks Gorgo

If you have kelp or weeds near shore that the wings will hang up in, you can also try body dragging it upside down. I have board upwind with arm over middle and mast under armpit / over shoulder. Body drag it like you would without a board, flying kite with back hand and pointing with front hand, just half laying on top of board. It's awkward, but it works. Challenge around here is: need enough power inshore to body drag through the kelp, but then over powered once outside. I was reminded yesterday how challenging it is to foil when overpowered.....teetering on the edge of out of control at all times. LOL

How's ya progression going boys? I'm working on jybes. Getting there slowly.

I just had another go today, finally starting to get up on the foil for short distances, obviously still got a long way to go but happy enough with my progress so far.

Just taking it slowly and have achieved what I was aiming for at this stage, which was no major stacks, been heaps of small ones though.

I'm guessing the big ones come when you start getting fast and attempt gybes and tacks, so I have still got that to look forward too.

I feel like I'm going backwards a bit. After my second session I could go as far as I liked without foiling and stay upwind easily, and foil for 2-3 secs at a time. Then I decided to drop kite size from 13m to 9m (for the 3rd and 4th session) and was back to square one. Crashed loads, walked upwind a lot and that meant less time on the water to practice.

The problem has been the smaller kite needs to be worked more, this would be fine if I could foil quickly but I can't yet. This has all been in 10-15 knots. Tempted to go back to the 13m just to nail the foiling basics then downsize. Met a local foiler at Botany Bay that has given me heaps of helpful tips so that has been good.

Good to hear you are jybing Plummet. I am a long way off that!

I have had those days where you feel like you have gone back a few steps.
Usually when I look back it's being over powered for my ability.
When you drop back kite sizes consider also using longer lines.
Foiling does put your kite control skills to the test so in early days do everything to make sure flying the kite is as smooth and simple as possible.

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HeavyInt said...
I feel like I'm going backwards a bit. After my second session I could go as far as I liked without foiling and stay upwind easily, and foil for 2-3 secs at a time. Then I decided to drop kite size from 13m to 9m (for the 3rd and 4th session) and was back to square one. Crashed loads, walked upwind a lot and that meant less time on the water to practice.

The problem has been the smaller kite needs to be worked more, this would be fine if I could foil quickly but I can't yet. This has all been in 10-15 knots. Tempted to go back to the 13m just to nail the foiling basics then downsize. Met a local foiler at Botany Bay that has given me heaps of helpful tips so that has been good.

Good to hear you are jybing Plummet. I am a long way off that!

Hi HeavyInt. What you are describing is very common , my advice would be to keep riding the same sized kites as you'd Tt with ( especially in those winds) until you are up and riding sustained on the foil on each tack. This might take 5-10 hours of experience or more.

It's true you can kitefoil with small kites but it requires some solid skills on the foil first. (FYI it only works because when foiling you have very little drag and can point high and ride fast which generates sufficient apparent wind to allow the small kite to fly. If you are touching down frequently it's just frustrating and hard work)

If you were happy and riding with your bigger kite, stick with that for now. It's hard enough as it is !

Keep at it !!

With foiling it is much more critical to have the right size pumped up. Overpowered is a no go and too dangerous. Underpowered is frustrating as you want some consistent pull and not sine the kite constantly, and have it stall when water starting. Closing the gap between just enough power to get up on the board and foil, and then have a just big enough kite to ride up on the foil, this is the trick. Agree playing with different line lenghts can be good. But often it is better to just pump up another kite as opposed to mucking around and having a frustrating session. Days when wind is predictable within a certain range and consistent are the best of course.

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RussKraut said..
With foiling it is much more critical to have the right size pumped up. Overpowered is a no go and too dangerous. Underpowered is frustrating as you want some consistent pull and not sine the kite constantly, and have it stall when water starting. Closing the gap between just enough power to get up on the board and foil, and then have a just big enough kite to ride up on the foil, this is the trick. Agree playing with different line lenghts can be good. But often it is better to just pump up another kite as opposed to mucking around and having a frustrating session. Days when wind is predictable within a certain range and consistent are the best of course.

I dunno, I think you can get a real wide range out of one kite learning to foil. I have done many of learning sessions in hell gusty 10-25 knots on the 8m.

Sure a clean 15 knots and flat sea on an 8m is ideal. My call is as long as you can relaunch your kite and drag out through the surf go out. Don't wait for the magical 15 knots and low swell day. Will you get slammed on a 25 knot 3m swell day? yes you will. It will be a humbling , frustrating and terrifying session. But it will make you better even if it doesn't feel like it at the time. The more conditions you battle the better you will be. Then when the magical flat sea, 15 knot breeze comes along you will progress like a motherfuclker.

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Plummet said..

RussKraut said..
With foiling it is much more critical to have the right size pumped up. Overpowered is a no go and too dangerous. Underpowered is frustrating as you want some consistent pull and not sine the kite constantly, and have it stall when water starting. Closing the gap between just enough power to get up on the board and foil, and then have a just big enough kite to ride up on the foil, this is the trick. Agree playing with different line lenghts can be good. But often it is better to just pump up another kite as opposed to mucking around and having a frustrating session. Days when wind is predictable within a certain range and consistent are the best of course.

I dunno, I think you can get a real wide range out of one kite learning to foil. I have done many of learning sessions in hell gusty 10-25 knots on the 8m.

Sure a clean 15 knots and flat sea on an 8m is ideal. My call is as long as you can relaunch your kite and drag out through the surf go out. Don't wait for the magical 15 knots and low swell day. Will you get slammed on a 25 knot 3m swell day? yes you will. It will be a humbling , frustrating and terrifying session. But it will make you better even if it doesn't feel like it at the time. The more conditions you battle the better you will be. Then when the magical flat sea, 15 knot breeze comes along you will progress like a motherfuclker.

I was trying to give advise to the ordinary foil newbie who may get frustrated already with the rather slow progress and may appreciate trying to minimise inadequate conditions and risk of injury. But yes, there are those highly talented and tough guys out there who like to torture themselves and who have to kite in gusty, cold, all over the place wind and chop

Whatever works for you mate

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RussKraut said..

Plummet said..

RussKraut said..
With foiling it is much more critical to have the right size pumped up. Overpowered is a no go and too dangerous. Underpowered is frustrating as you want some consistent pull and not sine the kite constantly, and have it stall when water starting. Closing the gap between just enough power to get up on the board and foil, and then have a just big enough kite to ride up on the foil, this is the trick. Agree playing with different line lenghts can be good. But often it is better to just pump up another kite as opposed to mucking around and having a frustrating session. Days when wind is predictable within a certain range and consistent are the best of course.

I dunno, I think you can get a real wide range out of one kite learning to foil. I have done many of learning sessions in hell gusty 10-25 knots on the 8m.

Sure a clean 15 knots and flat sea on an 8m is ideal. My call is as long as you can relaunch your kite and drag out through the surf go out. Don't wait for the magical 15 knots and low swell day. Will you get slammed on a 25 knot 3m swell day? yes you will. It will be a humbling , frustrating and terrifying session. But it will make you better even if it doesn't feel like it at the time. The more conditions you battle the better you will be. Then when the magical flat sea, 15 knot breeze comes along you will progress like a motherfuclker.

I was trying to give advise to the ordinary foil newbie who may get frustrated already with the rather slow progress and may appreciate trying to minimise inadequate conditions and risk of injury. But yes, there are those highly talented and tough guys out there who like to torture themselves and who have to kite in gusty, cold, all over the place wind and chop

Whatever works for you mate

Ok that came out wrong. What I meant to mean was, just fly in the normal conditions you fly in. as long as you can relaunch your kite and aren't stupidly over powered. You will ultimately progress faster than if you wait for "ideal" conditions.

From my experience I would have to totally agree with Plummet, jamesperth and others in this thread... in the learning stage using the kite size you would
normally use in any given wind strength (within reason) is the most beneficial. Having to devote large amounts of focus into working the kite or stop it from
falling out of the sky is undesirable and unnecessary. My mantra for learning to foil in marginal conditions (which varies for individuals) became and still is as Plummet says... if you can relaunch you have a sesh.

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Plummet said..
How's ya progression going boys? I'm working on jybes. Getting there slowly.

This season my goal was to achieve duck tacks which on a good day I am achieving 60 or 70% of, albeit very messy with board on the water arse in the drink. Today I tried my first proper low level boosts and it was way less scary than I thought it would be, in fact not scary at all at low heights. Its given me enough confidence to have a crack at backrolls.... probably should start using my helmet again!

Kai lenny foiling without kite

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Surfer62 said..
Kai lenny foiling without kite

God he makes that look freaken easy. The porpoising on the way back out looks a bit goofy!

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snalberski said..
From my experience I would have to totally agree with Plummet, jamesperth and others in this thread... in the learning stage using the kite size you would
normally use in any given wind strength (within reason) is the most beneficial. Having to devote large amounts of focus into working the kite or stop it from
falling out of the sky is undesirable and unnecessary. My mantra for learning to foil in marginal conditions (which varies for individuals) became and still is as Plummet says... if you can relaunch you have a sesh.

Plummet said..
How's ya progression going boys? I'm working on jybes. Getting there slowly.

This season my goal was to achieve duck tacks which on a good day I am achieving 60 or 70% of, albeit very messy with board on the water arse in the drink. Today I tried my first proper low level boosts and it was way less scary than I thought it would be, in fact not scary at all at low heights. Its given me enough confidence to have a crack at backrolls.... probably should start using my helmet again!

I'm not even thinking about duck tacks yet. But they look cool. So that will be the next progression after the jybes are sorted.
I'm already into jumping. Jumping is my happy place on the normal boards so its not much of a leap to jump on the foil. Its pretty damn cool having a 3 foot take off ramp bolted to the bottom of your board!
Landing on the other hand is amusing. I need to sort some cooler landing. At the moment i'm spudding in and arse checking most of the time.

The only time I've worried during jumps is when I loose the foil and almost land on it!