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Siksvan said..

sunsetsailboards said..
agree with hand wing drag being a big factor... my Unit v2 4.5 feels way faster than my old v1 Unit 4.0 or 3.3... haven't measured w/ GPS, so could all be perceptual BS, but the slipperiness through the air feels much different. People I've demo'd it out to seem to have similar experience w/ respect to efficiency and upwind ability.

will be fun to use an Apple Watch or borrow a Locosys to see what kind of speeds I am eeking out and whether the GoPro GPS is complete BS or not.

I just sailed with inflatable wing on hard snow 44 knots and limit was wind speed not a drag of wing. I'm sure I can make over 50 knots if conditions are right. Maybe lot more on the ice. Surely smaller wings are faster than large ones because of drag.

the Cabrinha wing designer was on the Progression Project podcast and made reference to new wing design w/ smaller LE making big leaps in speed. One of the local guys here is a tester.

used the Waterspeed on Apple Watch for the first time today:

SABFOIL W940/370 with Unit D/LAB 3.5 OPd.... slow water conditions and not my normal foil (W1000)

2sec 21.3kt
10 sec 19.4kt
20 sec 19.3kt
500m 18.0kt

was more focused on riding swell today than going fast

W1000 definitely feels faster but don't have a Kraken 653 fuse right now. Fun dialing in the W940 which is nice but something I haven't ridden in awhile. First day was at the front of the tracks on Sky Wing 4'8" 60l.... today moved back 2cm... tomorrow will move back another 2cm so I'm in the center of the tracks.

anybody else use the waterspeed app and can comment on accuracy?

My fastest to date was 23.5 kts on an 850 sqcm front wing. I had to lean way back, and it wasn't great... as this is too small a wing for enjoyable gliding and riding, but i am curious to try it with the HA-925

went out with the SABFOIL W1000 today for a short sesh. Flat water, good wind.

Sky Wing 4'8"
Project Cedrus 90cm Mast
SABFOIL W1000/647/400
D/LAB 3.5

2sec 22.7kt
5sec 22.6kt
10sec 22.2kt
20sec 21.6kt
500m 20.1kt

Was talking to a dude on the beach, and he said going from the 19mm PC mast to the NoLimitz he picked up about ~2mph which seems like a lot, but that would be very interesting if that were the case. He is also using the Waterspeed app for Apple Watch, but don't know if he's comparing peak speed or doing 5 or 10 second averages.

Felt decently speedy today... I definitely can't go 30kt w/ this setup.... know that for sure. Perhaps someone else can, but that someone is not me.

Sunset, that's pretty fast, are you doing the Friday night Crissy races? I feel like that's the best way to see the faster foil - also wing. I'll see you out there.

I haven't done any Speed winging for a while, but here's an old one that was memorable from 2020.



Max speed = 24.4kn
Best 2s = 24.3kn
Best 5s = 23.8kn
Best 10s = 23.5kn
Best 20s = 22.4kn

Good speed runs on Narrabeen lakes. Riding the Naish 810 foil with 280HA rear and 3.6m Wing. Wind was westerly around 20kn with big squalls.

Keen to get some more speed runs. really want to crack the 25kn then eventually the 30kn.

Here's a video of one of the runs before I ate it breeching.



Good times.

Ride safe,

JB

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sunsetsailboards said..

Siksvan said..

sunsetsailboards said..
agree with hand wing drag being a big factor... my Unit v2 4.5 feels way faster than my old v1 Unit 4.0 or 3.3... haven't measured w/ GPS, so could all be perceptual BS, but the slipperiness through the air feels much different. People I've demo'd it out to seem to have similar experience w/ respect to efficiency and upwind ability.

will be fun to use an Apple Watch or borrow a Locosys to see what kind of speeds I am eeking out and whether the GoPro GPS is complete BS or not.

I just sailed with inflatable wing on hard snow 44 knots and limit was wind speed not a drag of wing. I'm sure I can make over 50 knots if conditions are right. Maybe lot more on the ice. Surely smaller wings are faster than large ones because of drag.

the Cabrinha wing designer was on the Progression Project podcast and made reference to new wing design w/ smaller LE making big leaps in speed. One of the local guys here is a tester.

used the Waterspeed on Apple Watch for the first time today:

SABFOIL W940/370 with Unit D/LAB 3.5 OPd.... slow water conditions and not my normal foil (W1000)

2sec 21.3kt
10 sec 19.4kt
20 sec 19.3kt
500m 18.0kt

anybody else use the waterspeed app and can comment on accuracy?

Thanks for that info on the Waterspeed app! I've always been very skeptical about the "max" speed that most activity apps record. I couldn't find any proof but I suspect many of them use a pretty short time interval like 2 seconds. A 2 sec gps location measurement interval is always going to be more inaccurate than a 10 sec interval (which in turn would be less accurate than a 20 sec interval), and even if it was reasonably accurate, a max speed you can only reach for a couple of seconds just doesn't have the same impact as one you can sustain for 20 seconds, or better yet a 500m average.

I just loaded the Waterspeed app on my Apple Watch but I haven't tried it yet. I'll report back when I do. I'm typically getting a max speed of between 20 and 23 knots when using the Strava app on my Apple Watch and doing a speed run when conditions are right, but I don't put much stock in it. Looking forward to seeing what my 10 sec, 20 sec, and 500m measurement intervals will come out to. Plus I think it would be really cool to measure the lowest sustainable foiling speed of the same foil rig. I've always felt the most versatile foil rig is the one that provides the maximum range from stall speed to top speed

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Windgenuity said..
I haven't done any Speed winging for a while, but here's an old one that was memorable from 2020.



Max speed = 24.4kn
Best 2s = 24.3kn
Best 5s = 23.8kn
Best 10s = 23.5kn
Best 20s = 22.4kn

Good speed runs on Narrabeen lakes. Riding the Naish 810 foil with 280HA rear and 3.6m Wing. Wind was westerly around 20kn with big squalls.

Keen to get some more speed runs. really want to crack the 25kn then eventually the 30kn.

Here's a video of one of the runs before I ate it breeching.

Good times.

Ride safe,

JB

Hey JB, that video inspired me to chase speed on the wingding!Here is my best speed session so far, using the Axis ART899, 380 tail, 5m Strike wing in 20-25kn in Feb at Kyeemagh(www.ka72.com/Track/t/488854).
Recorded with Waterspeed/Applewatch which has some controversy, but the 5 best 10s runs are pretty consistent.
You should all join the KA72 wingdingers group and post your speed sessions there!www.ka72.com/Groups/Group-Activity/groupid/69

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HubDekkers said..
I'm also trying to push my limits. So far my max is 25,4 knots. My goal is to reach 50 kmh (27 knots). Conditions and setup hasn't been ideal so far. I have used the Armstrong HA925 and HA195 tail. I was still using the 72cm mast. In choppy water this makes it very challenging. Switching to the 85cm mast will give loads more control (I hope).

I have been riding the HA725 as well, but the speed is about the same. This tells me I am still the limiting factor. It is about control and how hard you dare to push.

There is also still some tuning to be done. :)

Hi, do you use any shim on the HA195 stab ? ... my max speed is 21kt also with the HA925/HA195/85cm mast and 60 fuselage, with no shim on stab.

I have also tried with the 70cm fuselage, its more stable but slower.

I've been pushing my bigger wings last Monday I got a new pb for my hs1850 / 70fuse /232stab with a red shim in backwards making it -2deg /85mast 150 ltr board nova v2 6.0 I'm 112kg managed 23.30 kts I went and sailed on freshwater dam and increased my pb by half a knot so was rapped to brake into the 23's on it my file is on ka72
I then changed to my ha725 but couldn't get a gust lined up and only went .6 of a knot faster it's a big change to the brain swapping between those sizes but is fun to do it

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HubDekkers said..
I'm also trying to push my limits. So far my max is 25,4 knots. My goal is to reach 50 kmh (27 knots). Conditions and setup hasn't been ideal so far. I have used the Armstrong HA925 and HA195 tail. I was still using the 72cm mast. In choppy water this makes it very challenging. Switching to the 85cm mast will give loads more control (I hope).

I have been riding the HA725 as well, but the speed is about the same. This tells me I am still the limiting factor. It is about control and how hard you dare to push.

There is also still some tuning to be done. :)

I have no clue about my speed but with the ha725 I go clearly quicker than with the ha925 and with the ha525 still more than with the Ha725. I use the 50 fuselage + 72 mast and I feel it turns much more with this setting but also it can go quicker with more control especiall with a 60 fuselage. My priority is the surf. We can not get everything.

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JohnnyTsunami said..
Sunset, that's pretty fast, are you doing the Friday night Crissy races? I feel like that's the best way to see the faster foil - also wing. I'll see you out there.

do we know each other?

my regular spot is Crissy, so I sail w/ all the ML/KA throng already. I always seem to be out of town for the races. Want to do one for fun, but I'm not a racer and I don't like start lines or close quarters w/ foils all around me (or windsurf fins for that matter).

I'm not even using a harness or footstraps.... do footstraps help for going fast? Most of the ML crew are riding front straps only

got a SAB W800 front wing... didn't feel dialed the first time I used it... did not feel I could push it the way I can with the W1000

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sunsetsailboards said..

JohnnyTsunami said..
Sunset, that's pretty fast, are you doing the Friday night Crissy races? I feel like that's the best way to see the faster foil - also wing. I'll see you out there.

do we know each other?

my regular spot is Crissy, so I sail w/ all the ML/KA throng already. I always seem to be out of town for the races. Want to do one for fun, but I'm not a racer and I don't like start lines or close quarters w/ foils all around me (or windsurf fins for that matter).

I'm not even using a harness or footstraps.... do footstraps help for going fast? Most of the ML crew are riding front straps only

got a SAB W800 front wing... didn't feel dialed the first time I used it... did not feel I could push it the way I can with the W1000

Harness and straps are better used going TWA 110 and below. They help leverage going upwind and reaching to give more purchase and inturn you should get more righting moment from being able to heel the mast harder. Long story short, you can push harder and go faster upwind and just off the breeze reaching

rode my buddy's KA board and ML800 the other day.... setup was more front foot oriented than mine and had straps (which I don't normally ride with). my foot position was pretty different than what I normally do, so didn't feel like I could push the gear. perhaps I just need to spend some time w/ straps and get used to the different stance. I'm not actually that interested in racing but I don't like to go slow or get passed, and my greatest joy w/ winging is gliding, turning, and riding swell. It is interesting though to see what gear is fast and what just maybe feels fast. The differences can also be small. So far w/ the GPS have only tested my W1000 w/ PC mast and W940 w/ Kraken mast. Need to put the Slingshot Phantasm PTM 926 on next to see what that does. That one doesn't feel particularly fast and it is really stable, but last time I rode it in Baja, I was passing windsurfers, so maybe it's not that slow.

I feel like there is something there with the foot positioning. I ride with straps set so my front foot is a bit too far forward most of the time so that when I'm nuking down a wave or reaching fast I'm never in a position where I have to back off because I can't get enough front foot pressure. It results in mostly touchdown crashes rather than breaches but it definitely helps speed and also botched gybes when you miss the footstrap your foot is still in an ok position and you can ride it out.

My board is drying out frontman a crack so I rode my kt 38l board which has the strap holes a few inches further back and it was rideable and balanced but I much prefer the other way.

I've gotten 28.9 on with art 799 + short fuse, 400 flat tail. With 3.8m ppc surge wing. Flat water around 25 knots of wind.

It's the fastest foil I've tried, I've gotten 25kn+ many time with art 999, HP's 930, 1050. All with the same tail.

Breaking 30kn will be my next goal just need the right conditions.

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oliverp said..
I've gotten 28.9 on with art 799 + short fuse, 400 flat tail. With 3.8m ppc surge wing. Flat water around 25 knots of wind.

It's the fastest foil I've tried, I've gotten 25kn+ many time with art 999, HP's 930, 1050. All with the same tail.

Breaking 30kn will be my next goal just need the right conditions.

Strewth you are fast, I'm going for speed and Im at least 20-30% off your pace with the same gear!!!

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oliverp said..
I've gotten 28.9 on with art 799 + short fuse, 400 flat tail. With 3.8m ppc surge wing. Flat water around 25 knots of wind.

It's the fastest foil I've tried, I've gotten 25kn+ many time with art 999, HP's 930, 1050. All with the same tail.

Breaking 30kn will be my next goal just need the right conditions.

That's some great speed

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oliverp said..
I've gotten 28.9 on with art 799 + short fuse, 400 flat tail. With 3.8m ppc surge wing. Flat water around 25 knots of wind.

It's the fastest foil I've tried, I've gotten 25kn+ many time with art 999, HP's 930, 1050. All with the same tail.

Breaking 30kn will be my next goal just need the right conditions.

What mast are you using? Every time I go fast on my 899 96 carbon mast it ventilates and I eat it.

I max out at 18 knots, Armstrong HA1125, HA195 one red ship (1deg), gong hipe 85l, foil just forward of center in rails, 85 kg plus wetsuit, takoon 5/7m wing.... I got 16 knots on the gong fluid h xl (approx 1500 cm) and 1m carbon mast...the Armstrong felt alot faster, but only 2 knot difference...hmm

Think the ha1125 would be faster...probably a few knots above 20 possible, but gong now quotes over 30 knots for their new ypra.

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JohnnyTsunami said..

oliverp said..
I've gotten 28.9 on with art 799 + short fuse, 400 flat tail. With 3.8m ppc surge wing. Flat water around 25 knots of wind.

It's the fastest foil I've tried, I've gotten 25kn+ many time with art 999, HP's 930, 1050. All with the same tail.

Breaking 30kn will be my next goal just need the right conditions.

What mast are you using? Every time I go fast on my 899 96 carbon mast it ventilates and I eat it.

The aluminium mast 19mm 82cm. I have heard stories about the carbon masts which sucks, I've never tried them so can't comment. Maybe the new carbon masts they are making will solve the issues. ??

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pumpnjump said..

oliverp said..
I've gotten 28.9 on with art 799 + short fuse, 400 flat tail. With 3.8m ppc surge wing. Flat water around 25 knots of wind.

It's the fastest foil I've tried, I've gotten 25kn+ many time with art 999, HP's 930, 1050. All with the same tail.

Breaking 30kn will be my next goal just need the right conditions.

Strewth you are fast, I'm going for speed and Im at least 20-30% off your pace with the same gear!!!

I think rider weight, wind, water conditions, wing size and transfer of power from wing to board play a big factor for speed. At first I was scared of going fast incase of a big crash which limited my speed. I don't recommend this but I just changed mindset and forget about crashing and just go as fast as I can and push past mental block ??

having confidence that your mast won't vent is a part of it for me... allows me to push.

New SAB Kraken 93 mast seems to be pretty good... I'm not venting very often if at all. got a 5sec 22.4kn and 20sec 21.3kn on my slower foil W940. Don't have the Kraken fuselage for the W1000/W800 yet.

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oliverp said..

pumpnjump said..

oliverp said..
I've gotten 28.9 on with art 799 + short fuse, 400 flat tail. With 3.8m ppc surge wing. Flat water around 25 knots of wind.

It's the fastest foil I've tried, I've gotten 25kn+ many time with art 999, HP's 930, 1050. All with the same tail.

Breaking 30kn will be my next goal just need the right conditions.

Strewth you are fast, I'm going for speed and Im at least 20-30% off your pace with the same gear!!!

I think rider weight, wind, water conditions, wing size and transfer of power from wing to board play a big factor for speed. At first I was scared of going fast incase of a big crash which limited my speed. I don't recommend this but I just changed mindset and forget about crashing and just go as fast as I can and push past mental block ??

The alloy mast is better for speed runs, notwithstanding the 799 never plateaus in lift - the faster you go, the harder it will lift. People have put shims under the front screws to aid in this. This isn't a mental block, rather you just able to translate power and keep going.

Axis has new fuses coming out in the non too distant future to correct the over lifting. This might help, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

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King Crash said..

oliverp said..

pumpnjump said..

oliverp said..
I've gotten 28.9 on with art 799 + short fuse, 400 flat tail. With 3.8m ppc surge wing. Flat water around 25 knots of wind.

It's the fastest foil I've tried, I've gotten 25kn+ many time with art 999, HP's 930, 1050. All with the same tail.

Breaking 30kn will be my next goal just need the right conditions.

Strewth you are fast, I'm going for speed and Im at least 20-30% off your pace with the same gear!!!

I think rider weight, wind, water conditions, wing size and transfer of power from wing to board play a big factor for speed. At first I was scared of going fast incase of a big crash which limited my speed. I don't recommend this but I just changed mindset and forget about crashing and just go as fast as I can and push past mental block ??

The alloy mast is better for speed runs, notwithstanding the 799 never plateaus in lift - the faster you go, the harder it will lift. People have put shims under the front screws to aid in this. This isn't a mental block, rather you just able to translate power and keep going.

Axis has new fuses coming out in the non too distant future to correct the over lifting. This might help, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

that's interesting, I never had an issue with too much lift, if anything I had not enough especially when I was gybing, I had to carry so much speed just to stay on the foil. I'm interested to see the new fuses though, maybe a 699 ART would be even faster and solve some of the issues you've mentioned.

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oliverp said..

King Crash said..

oliverp said..

pumpnjump said..

oliverp said..
I've gotten 28.9 on with art 799 + short fuse, 400 flat tail. With 3.8m ppc surge wing. Flat water around 25 knots of wind.

It's the fastest foil I've tried, I've gotten 25kn+ many time with art 999, HP's 930, 1050. All with the same tail.

Breaking 30kn will be my next goal just need the right conditions.

Strewth you are fast, I'm going for speed and Im at least 20-30% off your pace with the same gear!!!

I think rider weight, wind, water conditions, wing size and transfer of power from wing to board play a big factor for speed. At first I was scared of going fast incase of a big crash which limited my speed. I don't recommend this but I just changed mindset and forget about crashing and just go as fast as I can and push past mental block ??

The alloy mast is better for speed runs, notwithstanding the 799 never plateaus in lift - the faster you go, the harder it will lift. People have put shims under the front screws to aid in this. This isn't a mental block, rather you just able to translate power and keep going.

Axis has new fuses coming out in the non too distant future to correct the over lifting. This might help, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

that's interesting, I never had an issue with too much lift, if anything I had not enough especially when I was gybing, I had to carry so much speed just to stay on the foil. I'm interested to see the new fuses though, maybe a 699 ART would be even faster and solve some of the issues you've mentioned.

Lots pushed for a 599 or 699. It'll never happen apparently. People have cut the 799 down, but it just removes glide. How far back do you ride the mast in the box? Also what board? The smaller ARTs really don't agree with some brands - the One boards are almost perfect for it. Have heard very good things about that combo.
799 has so much glide you can take it out from 13 knots and glide/pump through lulls. Not sure how you're running out of glide!

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oliverp said..
I've gotten 28.9 on with art 799 + short fuse, 400 flat tail. With 3.8m ppc surge wing. Flat water around 25 knots of wind.

It's the fastest foil I've tried, I've gotten 25kn+ many time with art 999, HP's 930, 1050. All with the same tail.

Breaking 30kn will be my next goal just need the right conditions.

Sorry I don't believe those speeds for a second. What gps watch did you use? It's easy to get a high speed blip.
Can you share the gpx for analysis on ka72?
Cheers

I think the ART 799 really needs the 300p rear wing to go fast and control lift at speed. I have used the 300p on rough water and felt very nice. Looking forward to speed testing on flat water.

I think 10sec average gps speeds should be used. I've seen peak speeds of inxs of 25knots due to gps positioning errors.

Some race talk:

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Alysum said..

oliverp said..
I've gotten 28.9 on with art 799 + short fuse, 400 flat tail. With 3.8m ppc surge wing. Flat water around 25 knots of wind.

It's the fastest foil I've tried, I've gotten 25kn+ many time with art 999, HP's 930, 1050. All with the same tail.

Breaking 30kn will be my next goal just need the right conditions.

Sorry I don't believe those speeds for a second. What gps watch did you use? It's easy to get a high speed blip.
Can you share the gpx for analysis on ka72?
Cheers

Hey mate I didn't know I was speaking to an international adjudator of the wing foil speed records however, I'll indulge your request...

I used both a Samsung watch 4 and newest generation Apple watch using Strava and waterspeed respectively to record speed.

Strava only gives top speed and no other data and recorded 28.9kn

Waterspeed gave a 1sec speed of 29.1 and 5 sec 28.5 which led me to conclude 28.9 was top speed.

I don't know if you don't believe me personally or that a speed this 'fast' is possible on a wing foil. To develop your knowledge of how fast people have gone on a foil here's a vid below in which he got 31kn for your viewing pleasure

You can comment on his video if you believe it didn't happen as well

Kai Lenny has also gone for wing foil speed record attempts with a DIY rig made from a windsurfer sail that you can find online yourself with what appears to be 30+ kn speed.

Here's the video from my run also for your viewing pleasure.

media.discordapp.net/attachments/717285819995521084/986651035739238400/received_1094735404473780.mp4

Enjoy mate

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Steven F said..
I think the ART 799 really needs the 300p rear wing to go fast and control lift at speed. I have used the 300p on rough water and felt very nice. Looking forward to speed testing on flat water.

I think 10sec average gps speeds should be used. I've seen peak speeds of inxs of 25knots due to gps positioning errors.

I've been hoping to test the 300p as I've heard such good reviews about it, will be interesting to compare it to the flat tails which one would assume to be faster.

Which length fuse do you use paired with the 300p?