Ran into Damien at Kahului harbor today inflating some Speedwing X wings. Asked him if I could pick one up to feel the weight. He was super cool and offer me a test ride! Conditions today was challenging 20-30+kts gusting ENE switching to E then to nothing, wind waves about knee to waist high.

I was riding my North 3.5, so I tried out the SpX 3.6.

Initial impressions:

Weight: on the heavy side, think Armstrong and not F-One

Power: Very strong, the thing did not flap all that much. Felt more like a solid object. I could really figure out how to pump it, because it felt so different. But power was so direct I got up on foil from sheer acceleration alone.

Ride experience: First off it was eerily quiet. No flapping noise, even when the wind was nuking! I rode my North right before trying the X so I could compare. The thing cuts up wind like a pro. I'm pretty good a going upwind, but the X had me going in a whole new angle. Power was very linear. Pulls hard from the get go and just kept going. Dumping wind was easy because it was so solid. More like tilting a board that you are carrying into the wind than changing the direction of an umbrella.

Handles: Two long handles like the WR, but solid, felt more like mini booms. In the right place and very comfortable. I was able to gybe right away, caught a little bump and surfed a bit, then gybe back with not a thought about the handles, they were just there when I reached for them. That's some good engineering, when the user doesn't have to think about it once the first ride during very difficult conditions.

Visibility: Surprisingly, I did not find the wing all that easy to see through. The material is a bit foggy to start, add in some water it was not very clear, unlike the windows on my north where I have great vision. I ended up lifting the wing to check my surroundings.

Behavior on the water: When I fell, the X did this strange thing. It didn't sit on the surface of the water like my North and Armstrong, it didn't flip over like a Duotone, it floated in the air! I was in the water sorting out my board, looked over my shoulder and the wing was flying, just hovering in the air like a drone, waiting for me to get back on the board. It wasn't pulling hard on the leash, even though it was gusting 30+, it just sat in the air waiting. This happened twice during my ride, once it was on the surface of the water, then flew when I pull the leash. Never had a wing do this, so not sure what to make of it.

Bags: I check out the bags that they come in and was impressed. Large and long like the north ones (3 feet/ 1 meter or so). Zipper zipped around the top and down the side like Armstrong. Material seemed high quality. It had padded backpack straps for carrying. There was also a zippered outside pocket that was nearly half the length of the bag.

Leash: will be wrist one. Not sure about quality, the one on the tester was old and stretched out.

That's all I can remember. If I left out anything, ask and I might remember more after I get some food.

Select to expand quote

martyman said..

AnyBoard said..
I think Robert from blue planet mentioned the allulla OR wing is not as fold resistant as some other non-allulla wings in the middle when jumping and pumping under larger rider loads duw to the small leading edge.

Dunno about that, I'm 210pds and with the wing pumped to 9pds there is zero deformation under load.
Was Robert saying that he thinks that there might be deformation, or was he saying there was deformation? If there was deformation, then what PSI was it pumped to?
I had a buddy try mine and he only pumped it to 6psi as that is what he does on his Ozone's. The result wasn't great lol.

The thing about all this is, it seems like people are really busy trying to poke holes in products they haven't even tried-that is a pretty common theme with new products. This can create false narratives that cause problems for these companies. Trolling based on conjecture and no experience is kinda ****ty for these companies trying to innovate-reedin, OR, Duotone,etc -all of them

He sells them and had tried but went back to a stiffer setup. Thats the impression I got. It was in one of his latest podcast interviews. Check it out.
no false narrative.

My personal experience in regards to your comments is that some of these companies are obviously doing their r&d with the customer.

Probably too heavy to flip over .. Just jokes.

Select to expand quote

AnyBoard said..

martyman said..

AnyBoard said..
I think Robert from blue planet mentioned the allulla OR wing is not as fold resistant as some other non-allulla wings in the middle when jumping and pumping under larger rider loads duw to the small leading edge.

Dunno about that, I'm 210pds and with the wing pumped to 9pds there is zero deformation under load.
Was Robert saying that he thinks that there might be deformation, or was he saying there was deformation? If there was deformation, then what PSI was it pumped to?
I had a buddy try mine and he only pumped it to 6psi as that is what he does on his Ozone's. The result wasn't great lol.

The thing about all this is, it seems like people are really busy trying to poke holes in products they haven't even tried-that is a pretty common theme with new products. This can create false narratives that cause problems for these companies. Trolling based on conjecture and no experience is kinda ****ty for these companies trying to innovate-reedin, OR, Duotone,etc -all of them

He sells them and had tried but went back to a stiffer setup. Thats the impression I got. It was in one of his latest podcast interviews. Check it out.
no false narrative.

My personal experience in regards to your comments is that some of these companies are obviously doing their r&d with the customer.

lol, that sure sounds like a troll comment to me.
Whatever.

I'll check out Roberts podcast, he is a very practical fella

Select to expand quote

Goofcat said..
Ran into Damien at Kahului harbor today inflating some Speedwing X wings. Asked him if I could pick one up to feel the weight. He was super cool and offer me a test ride! Conditions today was challenging 20-30+kts gusting ENE switching to E then to nothing, wind waves about knee to waist high.

I was riding my North 3.5, so I tried out the SpX 3.6.

Initial impressions:

Weight: on the heavy side, think Armstrong and not F-One

Power: Very strong, the thing did not flap all that much. Felt more like a solid object. I could really figure out how to pump it, because it felt so different. But power was so direct I got up on foil from sheer acceleration alone.

Ride experience: First off it was eerily quiet. No flapping noise, even when the wind was nuking! I rode my North right before trying the X so I could compare. The thing cuts up wind like a pro. I'm pretty good a going upwind, but the X had me going in a whole new angle. Power was very linear. Pulls hard from the get go and just kept going. Dumping wind was easy because it was so solid. More like tilting a board that you are carrying into the wind than changing the direction of an umbrella.

Handles: Two long handles like the WR, but solid, felt more like mini booms. In the right place and very comfortable. I was able to gybe right away, caught a little bump and surfed a bit, then gybe back with not a thought about the handles, they were just there when I reached for them. That's some good engineering, when the user doesn't have to think about it once the first ride during very difficult conditions.

Visibility: Surprisingly, I did not find the wing all that easy to see through. The material is a bit foggy to start, add in some water it was not very clear, unlike the windows on my north where I have great vision. I ended up lifting the wing to check my surroundings.

Behavior on the water: When I fell, the X did this strange thing. It didn't sit on the surface of the water like my North and Armstrong, it didn't flip over like a Duotone, it floated in the air! I was in the water sorting out my board, looked over my shoulder and the wing was flying, just hovering in the air like a drone, waiting for me to get back on the board. It wasn't pulling hard on the leash, even though it was gusting 30+, it just sat in the air waiting. This happened twice during my ride, once it was on the surface of the water, then flew when I pull the leash. Never had a wing do this, so not sure what to make of it.

Bags: I check out the bags that they come in and was impressed. Large and long like the north ones (3 feet/ 1 meter or so). Zipper zipped around the top and down the side like Armstrong. Material seemed high quality. It had padded backpack straps for carrying. There was also a zippered outside pocket that was nearly half the length of the bag.

Leash: will be wrist one. Not sure about quality, the one on the tester was old and stretched out.

That's all I can remember. If I left out anything, ask and I might remember more after I get some food.

Thank you for the real world evidence. Keep it coming.

Select to expand quote

martyman said.. The thing about all this is, it seems like people are really busy trying to poke holes in products they haven't even tried-that is a pretty common theme with new products. This can create false narratives that cause problems for these companies. Trolling based on conjecture and no experience is kinda ****ty for these companies trying to innovate-reedin, OR, Duotone,etc -all of them

You are being way too logical and reasonable for an online forum. For what it's worth, I totally agree with you - well put.

Here's a good look at the wing itself and the materials of which it's made.

Select to expand quote

martyman said..

AnyBoard said..

martyman said..

AnyBoard said..
I think Robert from blue planet mentioned the allulla OR wing is not as fold resistant as some other non-allulla wings in the middle when jumping and pumping under larger rider loads duw to the small leading edge.

Dunno about that, I'm 210pds and with the wing pumped to 9pds there is zero deformation under load.
Was Robert saying that he thinks that there might be deformation, or was he saying there was deformation? If there was deformation, then what PSI was it pumped to?
I had a buddy try mine and he only pumped it to 6psi as that is what he does on his Ozone's. The result wasn't great lol.

The thing about all this is, it seems like people are really busy trying to poke holes in products they haven't even tried-that is a pretty common theme with new products. This can create false narratives that cause problems for these companies. Trolling based on conjecture and no experience is kinda ****ty for these companies trying to innovate-reedin, OR, Duotone,etc -all of them

He sells them and had tried but went back to a stiffer setup. Thats the impression I got. It was in one of his latest podcast interviews. Check it out.
no false narrative.

My personal experience in regards to your comments is that some of these companies are obviously doing their r&d with the customer.

lol, that sure sounds like a troll comment to me.
Whatever.

I'll check out Roberts podcast, he is a very practical fella

I have benefitted immensely from the feedback in this forum right back to my early days of kite surfing then kite foiling but as marketing has penetrated all our mechanisms for review when we can't demo, I think some balance in the discussion is important. Not sure how that is trolling.
You can listen to Robert's comments in his wing foiling interview on daniel graffe's YouTube. Here you will find his very diplomatic, measured and qualified feedback after riding the allulla OR wing.

My takeaway was the allulla material may be the best of the best leading edge and strut material but the wing design has some disappointments for his specific requirements, one being rigidity in the leading edge. Still a great wing but personal circumstances and requirements will determine whether it's worth the money.

A little less froth than some reviews in this thread but from a credible source.

I mentioned it because allulla has the potential to offer the best pump for the smallest wing and will be super light, which for those of us targeting our purchases for downwinging and wave riding it offers the dream potentially. Those with these requirements might be better to wait in my opinion as that is a lot of money.

Warning more balance in the next sentence.
kdmaui, in talking how amazing the new x wing is mentioned wave riders might be more happy on the standard reedin wing. A lot to read between the lines there.

use alluula for the frame and we may have gen II wings

JD follow cam has some recent footage of someone super comfortable with this wing.

Select to expand quote

goggo said..
JD follow cam has some recent footage of someone super comfortable with this wing.

FoilAddict looking SUPER comfortable

last few clips from this vid:

Select to expand quote

MidAtlanticFoil said..

goggo said..
JD follow cam has some recent footage of someone super comfortable with this wing.

FoilAddict looking SUPER comfortable

last few clips from this vid:

Yeah, that's the one.

Side-off wave riding doesn't seem to need the wing to be super light compared to downwind swell riding. Although a very well behaved flagging wing is very important there.

Select to expand quote

AnyBoard said..

martyman said..

AnyBoard said..

martyman said..

AnyBoard said..
I think Robert from blue planet mentioned the allulla OR wing is not as fold resistant as some other non-allulla wings in the middle when jumping and pumping under larger rider loads duw to the small leading edge.

Dunno about that, I'm 210pds and with the wing pumped to 9pds there is zero deformation under load.
Was Robert saying that he thinks that there might be deformation, or was he saying there was deformation? If there was deformation, then what PSI was it pumped to?
I had a buddy try mine and he only pumped it to 6psi as that is what he does on his Ozone's. The result wasn't great lol.

The thing about all this is, it seems like people are really busy trying to poke holes in products they haven't even tried-that is a pretty common theme with new products. This can create false narratives that cause problems for these companies. Trolling based on conjecture and no experience is kinda ****ty for these companies trying to innovate-reedin, OR, Duotone,etc -all of them

He sells them and had tried but went back to a stiffer setup. Thats the impression I got. It was in one of his latest podcast interviews. Check it out.
no false narrative.

My personal experience in regards to your comments is that some of these companies are obviously doing their r&d with the customer.

lol, that sure sounds like a troll comment to me.
Whatever.

I'll check out Roberts podcast, he is a very practical fella

I have benefitted immensely from the feedback in this forum right back to my early days of kite surfing then kite foiling but as marketing has penetrated all our mechanisms for review when we can't demo, I think some balance in the discussion is important. Not sure how that is trolling.
You can listen to Robert's comments in his wing foiling interview on daniel graffe's YouTube. Here you will find his very diplomatic, measured and qualified feedback after riding the allulla OR wing.

My takeaway was the allulla material may be the best of the best leading edge and strut material but the wing design has some disappointments for his specific requirements, one being rigidity in the leading edge. Still a great wing but personal circumstances and requirements will determine whether it's worth the money.

A little less froth than some reviews in this thread but from a credible source.

I mentioned it because allulla has the potential to offer the best pump for the smallest wing and will be super light, which for those of us targeting our purchases for downwinging and wave riding it offers the dream potentially. Those with these requirements might be better to wait in my opinion as that is a lot of money.

Warning more balance in the next sentence.
kdmaui, in talking how amazing the new x wing is mentioned wave riders might be more happy on the standard reedin wing. A lot to read between the lines there.

Ya I never said dont give reviews, or that reviews based upon personal experience or discusion weren't valid. Like, that's what we are doing here. Not just you or even about you, but people going on about **** they just dont know about, or perpetuating inaccurate "facts" is ****ty for these small businesses. Anyways...

I still don't think robert had enough air in that wing. I'm a heavyweight and treat my stuff terribly. Ive taken it out massivly overpowered, and loaded it up as heavily as a guy can-ive never even budged that leading edge. BUT, I had it pumped to 9 psi. If a guy reads the instruction manual(I usually dont), it says that 8psi is a general suggestion.

I'm looking fwd to try what this Reedin Superwing is about.

Past that, happy holiday season and plentiful wind and waves to all!

You can probably pump higher than recommended but there is a higher risk of damaging the seams/stitching of the wing. Ive been pumping my normal canopy superwing to 10psi for a while and it seems fine. used to do 11 or 12 on old ensis/wr and blew some up though. always broke at a panel seam

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FoilAddict said..
You can probably pump higher than recommended but there is a higher risk of damaging the seams/stitching of the wing. Ive been pumping my normal canopy superwing to 10psi for a while and it seems fine. used to do 11 or 12 on old ensis/wr and blew some up though. always broke at a panel seam

again, not an allula employee here, but I do know that the material withstands extremely high pressures. They were blowing up pumps inflating test LE's. The stitching is not regular thread either. Look at the strut-its recommended to be pumped to 12psi. I think the take home is that the stuff is often treated like regular dacron, but is far from it.

Kane- are you predominantly using the Reedin for airs and freeriding? What are you using these days in the surf? Can you answer that ?(lol)

Yeah Allula and hookipa LE can do 12.

I only have the SWX in 3.6, waiting on my quiver. So far if the waves are good I'm using the standard canopy for it's front handle stability, anytime else ill be using the X ply.

Need this correction on Aluula.

The material is 40% stiffer. This is NOT because you pump it to a higher pressure. Actually, Aluula doesn't hold a stitch better. Look at the extra rows of stitching on every seam. Also notice the only place they say 12 PSI, is the SKINNY center strut. Skinner than any center strut, on any wing, currently on the market. This is why it can take 12 psi and it's the Aluula being 40% stiffer than allows this to work.

Leading edge pressures with Aluula are the SAME as Dacron wings, yet 40% stiffer.

Select to expand quote

DWF said..
Need this correction on Aluula.

The material is 40% stiffer. This is NOT because you pump it to a higher pressure. Actually, Aluula doesn't hold a stitch better. Look at the extra rows of stitching on every seam. Also notice the only place they say 12 PSI, is the SKINNY center strut. Skinner than any center strut, on any wing, currently on the market. This is why it can take 12 psi and it's the Aluula being 40% stiffer than allows this to work.

Leading edge pressures with Aluula are the SAME as Dacron wings, yet 40% stiffer.

You mean " Leading edge pressures with Aluula are the SAME as Dacron wings, yet 40% stiffer" If the same diameter of strut or leading edge.

Only a 20% reduction of leading edge might see the Aluula frame only as stiff as the bigger diameter Dacron frame for the same pressure.

Select to expand quote

AnyBoard said..

Only a 20% reduction of leading edge might see the Aluula frame only as stiff as the bigger diameter Dacron frame for the same pressure.

Logic says maybe. My Ocean Rodeo wings seem (based on memory only) about the same diameter at the leading edge as my Ensis Scores were. Both said inflate to 8 psi. Ocean Rodeo massively stiffer at 8psi.

Thanks for the clarification DWF, Hookipa seems to hold a stitch better due to its tear resistance

Select to expand quote

AnyBoard said..

DWF said..
Need this correction on Aluula.

The material is 40% stiffer. This is NOT because you pump it to a higher pressure. Actually, Aluula doesn't hold a stitch better. Look at the extra rows of stitching on every seam. Also notice the only place they say 12 PSI, is the SKINNY center strut. Skinner than any center strut, on any wing, currently on the market. This is why it can take 12 psi and it's the Aluula being 40% stiffer than allows this to work.

Leading edge pressures with Aluula are the SAME as Dacron wings, yet 40% stiffer.

You mean " Leading edge pressures with Aluula are the SAME as Dacron wings, yet 40% stiffer" If the same diameter of strut or leading edge.

Only a 20% reduction of leading edge might see the Aluula frame only as stiff as the bigger diameter Dacron frame for the same pressure.

This video shows the breaking point of Aluula compared to Dacron. Dacron has a lot stretch to it Aluula not so much...

Superwing X weights according to the realwatersports website...

6.0m 7.8 lbs
5.2m 7.0 lbs
4.7m 6.4 lbs
4.2m 6.0 lbs

So a 5.2 is aprox half a kg more heavy as a Slick 5m with carbon boom. and 800gr more heavy as my Smik 5m I do wonder if I would notice that on such surface.

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Jaybin said..
Superwing X weights according to the realwatersports website...

6.0m 7.8 lbs
5.2m 7.0 lbs
4.7m 6.4 lbs
4.2m 6.0 lbs

My 4M OR A series is 3.5 lbs for comparison. My Fone 6M CWC is 5.5 lbs. That's a quite a weight difference

More and more on the way. I'm a big fan of how flat this is

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King Crash said..
More and more on the way. I'm a big fan of how flat this is

I like the idea of no stretch and durability. Could live with rolling like a sail. looks like a lot more development to the wing than the other equipment, will be interesting to see where we are at next year.

Though I haven't ridden it yet, my 4.7 arrived yesterday (plenty of wind coming this weekend). I didn't get to ride it, but pumped it up and it certainly looks impressive. It reminds me a lot of a windsurfing sail the way the leading edge and leech set up after inflated.

I share in the opinion that, with the x-wing, glide, and "standard" build wings we are starting to see different pathways to follow depending on our own preferences. As a windsurfer of 40+ years (started when I was 7), I went through a range of sails and disciplines over the years. I ended up finding the most joy in down the line wave sailing, but still will head out for a good novelty high wind bump and jump session on the 1-2 days a year when it blows over 40 knots.

With wave windsurfing, I've ridden everything from light weight sails to bomb proof sails. I also tried designs from very easy to luff to power on/power off. Even though I'm not currently riding them, my favorites over the years were always part of the Naish Force line. I loved the low end grunt and instant power. I never minded the slight addition to weight or the fact that they are sometimes less forgiving than other sails.

Moving into wing foiling, I really liked the wings I've tried by DG and have spend a decent amount of time on the previous Superwing. Based on my experience with the Ensis wings, WR, and V1 Superwing, I'm confident that Damien wouldn't have released a wing in this material if it didn't work really well. When it come to comparing the X-wing with the OR Glide, I'm guessing it will be somewhat similar to my experience with windsurfing sails over the years, there will be different cost/benefit equations for each wing relative to our own individual rider preferences.

All this said, I have tentative plans to meet up with a fellow rider who owns an OR Glide A this weekend. We're planning to swap wings back and forth to experience the differences side-by-side. The only thing that might through a monkey wrench in our plan is that it might be too windy for my 4.7 and his 5.0. If that ends up being the case, I'll report back after conditions do agree.

Have uou been able to try the 2 wings?

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Ch0p said..
Have uou been able to try the 2 wings?

Didn't get to try the OR but here's what I posted on standupzone:

I've had a session in 12-15mph with 4.7 and now a good session in 15-18 on 4.2. It was after my session on the 4.7 that I swapped out for a 4.2. I simply don't need the amount of power in the 4.7.
First impressions here. The good: once you are on foil it's like a muscle car, lots of power and torque and noticeably faster than other wings I've tried. Using HA925 with chopped V tail I was easily hitting 19-20mph on GPS. That is without ever fully sheeting in and pointing off. For the first time, I'm thinking I might try a harness. Other things, can point very high, 4.2 can be flown with one hand and still generate a lot of forward propulsion. The 4.2 has more power than the Armstrong 4.5. On a wave I found that flagging with your back hand on front strut handle and front hand on leading edge handle was most comfortable and allowed me to generate more power to get through sections when you needed it but still have the "wing free" experience of driving forward based on wave energy alone. When flagging high behind you, the wing still catches enough power that it moved around a bit. Another SWX rider said this could be managed by flagging lower.
Challenges: When the wind was marginal, the weight of the wing had more of an impact on pumping to foil. Weight will matter to some and not to others. For me, this wing feels very different from anything else I've tried and is drawing out more of the windsurfer in me in terms of technique. The 4.7 was cooking my forearms because it had so much power on foil. My suggestion to those who have these coming is to prepare for an initial learning curve and be open to how wings like this will change some of the way we ride them.
A fellow rider who has an 5m OR full Aluula really likes his SWX 4.2. He sees it as a good complement to his OR as opposed to an alternative. He also says the SWX is the more ridged of the two.
I believe the space that the SWX occupies will be better understood and defined as everyone gets more time on them and develops their technique for what it demands.