I didn't report any post or topic and never have,

You can't be serious about claiming that everyone has to buy a product to work out whether it's hype. That's like saying that you can't dismiss the medicinal use of ground-up rhino horn before saying it's BS. If someone wants to sell something they can provide objective evidence that it works. That's really, really, really simple.

Your repeated use of quotes that are intended to insult others seems to indicate that you're not actually willing to discuss issues. It's really odd that you and Mr MW can't actually discuss issues without insults of some sort or another.

I NEVER said wingsails are never good and never will be. It's obvious that they are good in some situations.
It's not about wingsails being a new idea - they are an 80 year old idea.
It's not about not doing research - I have done plenty of it.

It is about whether people are prepared to discuss issues without throwing around insults and cliches, and whether they are prepared to provide proof of their claims. To start with one simple issue -

1- do you agree with Professor Mark Drela, world record holder in foils, when he says ""Thin airfoils are capable of the highest CL and CL/CD values"?

2- Do you agree with Tom Speer, Boeing wing designer, when he says "a thin airfoil which always has the appropriate camber shape dialed in at any given operating point will in general be superior to a thick airfoil." ?

Can you please answer these simple questions?

I have never said that wingsails do not have some advantages. The point is that all rigs have some advantages and some disadvantages and therefore there's no need to insult sailors and sail designers if they find that for their own situation and the one of most other sailors, thin sails work better.

And please, can you cut out the quotes that are meant to insult and just discuss facts.

PS - Yes, I have read the testimonials. None of them give much information about the sailor and their experience. None of them seem to apply to the conditions many of us sail in. None of them include objective data. None of them provide good information that can back up the performance claims made for some wingsails.

Poblem with quotes ? Don't you respect experts in here domain ? Is everything not in line with your belives an insult ?

Ok Stanislav will never be a member of your country club and sometimes is a jerk but his work is unic and if you are intr. please find out for your self why wingsail have big avantages in real life windsurfing in variable conditons , not in windtunnels or on big boats .

I gave my opion in the other Topic , i spend hours writing it to find gone the next day , i am not doing it again , sorry !
Take a look on the Dutch forum

It's a really simple question - is Prof Mark Drela wrong? It just takes a "yes" or "no" response.

The fact is that either Stanislav's graph (showing the alleged advantage of thick foils) is misleading or one of the world's greatest aerodynamic experts, a world record in holder on his own foils, is wrong. As far as I can recall, what you wrote on the other forum did not address that problem.

Okay, you and Stanislav say that wingsails are more stable when it comes to back-hand pressure. That's fine. That may be an advantage to wingsails. Plenty of us have said that wingsails can have certain advantages - that's obvious.

However, that advantages does not mean that wingsails are better overall or that Stan should be insulting other sailors, other sailmakers and anyone who dares to ask him a technical question.

joe windsurf said..
why do "testimonials" have "Luke" in a photo using a NP/Neil Pryde sail ??
with a thumbs up - for the NP sail ??

because , and I quote "In NOVEMBER 2017 I TESTED the 5.8 MW Wingsail".
Tested , took it for a few runs...It was demo day.
Why there's no pictures while testing?
Weather and Wind direction were not favorable for me to take pictures from the shore. But next time ill make sure to take plenty.
What is a thumbs up for? - for a good day of windsurfing in the summer and for the camera

Sparky said..
I was wondering, would these wingsails work best with a specific "wingsails board".
Many of us use very specific, dialled in equipment. We balance the sail with board design, board volume, fin shape and fin size.
I noticed in one of the videos the board Stan was riding looked a bit "squirrelly". A technical (Australian?) term for the back of the board being a bit loose and prone to spin out.
Have considerations been made to adapting boards and fins to be more suitable?

Hey Sparky! Wing sail instantly stabilize your board -fin configuration. This is why I riding such a small board and fin. Anyone who sail wing on my speed 54 or slalom 58 (cm wide) board instantly notice board stability. The only disadvantage of narrow boards is very narrow tail , I (and others) have trouble to fit my back foot in strap. I guess If I have narrower like 50 cm board with wider tail it would be more comfortable without loosing performance in speed. Our Wing sail is 100% better performance in all aspects compare to thing ply sail. So answering your question short: wingsail doesn't need specific board , it will work with your existing gear just fine. Using our wingsail , you will expand your windsurfing ability and probably, as a result, move to smaller board and fin, as I did. I also noticed, someone came to conclusion that wingsail better in light winds, this is wrong, wingsail is wind-hungry machine, it shows its real exiting strong and stable power in really hard winds. There is no backhand or back-foot pressure or sudden pull of drops , nothing, just stable and strong pull.
Now let me answer ( repeat) other Qs . Typical airfoils have center of lift located in front , about 25% of total chord length. This is where all lift is generated . Our wingsail reverse its profile exactly in this section ( front section) , this what makes our wing different from other designs and this is why it works . I just want to point out that other "wings" has stationary front part and moving tail section , obviously this is not enough . Some other designs just spacers btw two panels... Hope it helps.

^^^^ I think he means more people using it MW, and testing it side by side with other gear.

Your video I saw is only somebody who appears to be an intermediate freerider using the sail and the testimonials are only a handful of people who say they liked it.

What we all want to see is one of the really good racers from near you use it and show speed data - with speed data from his other sail on the same day.
That is objective.
If you say it stabilises your board better, that would be evident in GPS runs in rough conditions. Showing the numbers would convince us.

So far it seems you only have subjective reviews from friends.

MWsails said..

Mark _australia said..
^^^^ I think he means more people using it MW, and testing it side by side with other gear.

Your video I saw is only somebody who appears to be an intermediate freerider using the sail and the testimonials are only a handful of people who say they liked it.

What we all want to see is one of the really good racers from near you use it and show speed data - with speed data from his other sail on the same day.
That is objective.
If you say it stabilises your board better, that would be evident in GPS runs in rough conditions. Showing the numbers would convince us.

So far it seems you only have subjective reviews from friends.

We put final commercial version in October, we don't have racers around here. Season is over . So you guys have to wait until spring time . Yes sail go faster than regular sail same size in rough and flat conditions , all we have to do is to find name who you can trust. Or we can do this: If sail does not improve your speed over regular same size, send it back we refund your money 100%.

You have 1 GPS sailor from the USA GPS Team Challenge team (I believe your old partner Alexander Sosnin) still posting sessions in your vicinity.

MW, can you advise of price to get a sail to Western Australia, say Perth. Cheaper if 2 come?

Sparky said..
I was thinking the wa windsurf community should time share one? $100 each? It can live at my place? Then we can give you twenty reviews from experienced sailors in top conditions!

Yep that's what I'm getting at.

10 interested sailors.

decrepit said..
Good thinking guys, we've got every thing here, from Coros to Margarets. Waves, slalom, free ride/style and speed. But I suggest leaving Margarets or Gnaraloo last, just in case a mast high wave collapsing on them blows the seams.

I wouldn't mind comparing my 5.8 Koncept with one.
My Koncept has taken me to 38kts,
www.gpsteamchallenge.com.au/sailor_session/show?date=2016-12-27&team=2
so would a wingsail get me to 40???????????
That would be worth well over a $100.00 if it could.

Thats 3 of us.

How much to get one here MW?

Sparky said..
I was thinking the wa windsurf community should time share one? $100 each? It can live at my place? Then we can give you twenty reviews from experienced sailors in top conditions!

Bugger that send 2 east and we'll run them at The Pit and Lake George, perfect side by side testing

BSN101 said..
Thats 3 of us.

How much to get one here MW?

Well maybe, I only said it would be worth $100 if it got me to 40kts. Question is, how big is that if?

Would this be good wingsail testing weather?

MWsails said..We put final commercial version in October, we don't have racers around here. Season is over . So you guys have to wait until spring time . Yes sail go faster than regular sail same size in rough and flat conditions , all we have to do is to find name who you can trust. Or we can do this: If sail does not improve your speed over regular same size, send it back we refund your money 100%.

#1- So u have gone all out pimping it on forums and a website - but in your long testing and development you have not had a really good sailor test it side-by-side with other equipment?
I am not after a name we can trust - just the same proficient sailor using it, alternating with his regular sail, and GPS readings for the day as he swaps sails a few times.
Your sail did not just materialise from nowhere, it has taken a while to develop, so I don't think "its not our season at the moment" is really an answer.
If I asked Ben Severne in our winter 6mths ago how the 2018 sail performs, he will be able to tell me all about the 2 yrs of testing ....... not say "oh its not the season now so I dunno..."

Where are the test numbers from last season....?


Then #2- so you are saying it has a wider range and the 5.8 will replace all my sails from 4.2 to 6m or so?
Plus it is faster in flat and open water?

And you guarantee that 100%?