Ok, I have been perth for 2.5 years now and prior to that I was a keen snowboard instructor. In snowboarding the vibe is really good, the snowboard community look out for each other, encourage their mates to progress and get stoked when beginners get anew trick or progress.

So I came to Perth expecting the same from surfing, only to find the opposite. A lot of people are so up themselves and selfish in terms of taking waves. Not all welcoming to newcomers or beginners. It makes me sad, it's supposed to be a sport which is supposed to be a soulful one, where you are out in nature enjoying it with friends. Instead you are given bad looks and in some instances sworn at and told not to come back. What's that all about?

A lot of the chat on here really annoys me and it is always WA people saying 'f-in kooks' this and that. To all those that share this opinion, please just take yourself back to when you were a beginner, and we all were one time. We have all dropped in on someone, I don't care what you say, it's part of learning. A bit of tolerance and good karma goes a long way guys, give it some thought eh. So next time you see a 'kook' out there give him some room say hi and ask how he's going. Manners don't cost anything guys.

Totally agree with you @sporto. I've snowboarded all my life and took up surfing as there aren't as many opportunities to hit the snow as there are in Europe.

Rather than get ** for doing the wrong thing when I know no better or its an accident, I would hope that the experienced guys would point me in the right direction so I don't make the same mistakes. Maybe even help with a few pointers about technique.

I get it that everybody wants to catch waves, but hey isn't it all about everybody getting stoked?

Apples and oranges, sporto. In snowboarding, wait a minute and the run is free. Surfing it's one person/wave and in places like Perth there are more
people than waves so naturally conflict arises. In more remote areas the vibe is more relaxed.

As you say, it's a sport. There's no requirement to be soulful or whatever. Some people like to just talk story in the water and are happy with one wave/session and just trim on a log. Some people like to smash the crap out of as many waves as they can. Some people like to float around with dolphins. Some people don't give a crap.

Some days I'll get zero good waves. But I'm out there more days than most people, in some pretty horrendous conditions. Sometimes you'll get the wave of your session and someone drops in on you down the line or flounders right in the most critical spot. That sucks and understandably pisses people off.

When I was a beginner I was a grom and the deal was you're the lowest of the low and you get picked on and stuff. Weaker groms would be binned and pranked on shore. I remember at one club comp they zipped up a grom and were going to roll him off an almost-cliff. He ended up a future club champ and all round ripper. I remember another one being binned. Future club champ and all round ripper #2. Pay your dues and get the rewards.

Learners and beginners shouldn't expect to paddle out with crew that have been surfing forever and expect to share the sets. Pay the dues.

These are things you learn over many years as a kid. That's why it's hard to learn when you're older. You've got to persevere and be stubborn and have a willingness to take the crumbs and continually get smashed. Good luck.

How do you feel at the top of a powder run when you're following backcountry protocol, taking turns with your crew and all have packs and are beeping and a weekend warrior comes blazing past following your tracks and just ploughs on down, yardsaleing the whole way before your mate down below is even in a safe zone? There are kooks in all sports. Some piss you off, some can endanger your life.

BTW, here's a big tip on dropping in - if you're paddling for a lefthander, look to your right. If it's a right, look to your left. If you see someone, don't paddle. Who says I'm not nice and friendly and helpful?

I'd agree with that comment.

BUT don't let anyone else's issue bother you. It maybe depends on were you surf? I find most of the spots i frequent are friendly enough. I will always chat and say hi to people but not everyone responds

I will always keep out of the way of better surfers though as i think its right, but i will also get involved and take my share of waves if i want to as well. Especially when a few don't think they should share

Sadly i find these days you just find people in general are Grumpy Old Folk. Its not just restricted to surfing

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MornoPom said..
I get it that everybody wants to catch waves, but hey isn't it all about everybody getting stoked?

No. It's about me. Why should I care if someone else is getting stoked?

Back to the snow analogy, second most famous saying (after the 'yellow snow' one) is 'no friends on powder days'.

Same sentiment, limited powder, limited time, too many skiers/snowboarders. If it's just you and a mate and plenty of pow, no problem. If it's just you and a mate and plenty of waves, no problem.

Would be nice if beginners used some common sense though when they go out in the water.
I can safely say that almost all my surf related injuries (and a good deal of my dings) are as a result of being dropped in on or having someone paddle across me while I'm on a wave.

I just don't get what it is that makes beginners think it's okay to just paddle a big lumbering longboard into a packed lineup with waves that are way beyond their ability. Unlike with snowboarding (by the way, there are PLENTY of elitist asshole snowboarders out there) we don't have a pieste sign posted with runs catered for different skill levels that keep the beginners on the easy stuff and out of the way while the experienced snowboarders can hack up the pow pow on big gnarly black runs. That kind of thing in the water is self policed by those who are out there.

I try to be polite in the water, but if someone puts me in danger or damages my property by sheer stupidity, then they will get educated.

I dont see this at all, in fact Ive only seen one fight in the surf and to this cant understand why it happened.
Yes there was a drop in but it wasnt a critcal wave and the violence wasnt warrented.

Also I have never had a problem with learner surfers near me. I cant say that I have encouraged people but I have given a hoot to lots of people as they surf past.

Where do you normally surf sporto?

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sporto said..

Ok, I have been perth for 2.5 years now and prior to that I was a keen snowboard instructor. In snowboarding the vibe is really good, the snowboard community look out for each other, encourage their mates to progress and get stoked when beginners get anew trick or progress.

BTW, do you really get stoked when teaching beginners and they manage their best falling leaf impression on day 1? Or get off their first chair without falling? On a day when it's snowing and your mates are lapping an empty chair? Instructing is for chumps.

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subasurf said..

Would be nice if beginners used some common sense though when they go out in the water.
I can safely say that almost all my surf related injuries (and a good deal of my dings) are as a result of being dropped in on or having someone paddle across me while I'm on a wave.

I just don't get what it is that makes beginners think it's okay to just paddle a big lumbering longboard into a packed lineup with waves that are way beyond their ability. Unlike with snowboarding (by the way, there are PLENTY of elitist asshole snowboarders out there) we don't have a pieste sign posted with runs catered for different skill levels that keep the beginners on the easy stuff and out of the way while the experienced snowboarders can hack up the pow pow on big gnarly black runs. That kind of thing in the water is self policed by those who are out there.

I try to be polite in the water, but if someone puts me in danger or damages my property by sheer stupidity, then they will get educated.

Yeah i was thinking about that after i posted. There is a genuine safety risk in the surf. Packs scare me a lot. Especially paddling out after a bomb set. If I'm close to others i often will remind them not to chuck boards.. The amount you see that is just crazy..

I guess another point is, especially in WA is we have mostly beach breaks. The East will get a lot of points so you will often have a designated paddle out area out of the line up as on a beach, it seems to be just were ever

Yeah, those Qld point breaks sure are safe, friendly places for learners (or anyone).

I've only snow boarded a few times in Yuzawa Japan where they had beginner, medium & advanced runs. So I was like on this big wide medium slope hillside which remained still each day unaffected by tide, swell & wind. As peeps have already mentioned you can't compare the 2 activities & not only because snowboarding is nothing like surfing but because of the variable limit of opportunities to catch waves.

Unfortunately you find yourself in one of the worst places for waves. WA's (windy always) Perth coastline doesn't have protective bays to cater for variable wind conditions & has a line of reefs a few k's out, plus Rotto blocking swell. Then you've got a city full of wave hungry frothers chasing waves...it was bad enough when I lived there up until 1994. But now you have a lot more mining with Fly in/out people surfing inside of 9 to 5 weekdays competing with the students & beach bums as well. Its changed so much & actually quite rapidly over the last 10 years. So understandably a lot of people are frustrated & that comes out in the water.

My advice would be to just try & find a place with less people. It may not be as good as the popular places, but with the right equipment you can still have a great time. Otherwise just give up, coz your part of the problem (jk)

One thing that bothers me is that not many people seem to pull anyone else up in the water nowadays. It doesnt have to be agro, just a friendly heads up on their wrongdoing. So many times I see people get burnt and snaked so they just give em the stink eye and bitch to their mates and then finally they start burning and snaking everyone else without being proactive to solve the problem (and then maybe jumping on forums after their surf for a cry...)
I gave a mal rider a heads up on his snaking two weeks ago up here and he was totally oblivious to what he was doing. Absolutely no lineup awareness whatsoever. Only 12 ppl in the lineup (can handle 20 easily) and he is just going wave after wave up the inside of everyone. That sht wouldn't fly for very long when I was growing up and I just cant understand why people don't take it upon themselves to educate people, ESPECIALLY the groms and the middle aged beginners.
Obviously education goes out the window when its packed, but I just go elsewhere nowadays anyhoo.

Rant over

I'm back to surfing where it all began for me 30 years ago. It's been quite a hiatus.
I'm often the first out, and with Ks of empty beach, some tool will indefinitely paddle out and sit almost within arms reach of me and avoid eye contact. I say G'day and get stink-eyed.

No waves for him!


Essentially, a smile, some knowledge of the "rules", and a realistic skill/conditions match will see you through. And time in the water.
Good luck and see you out there.

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Buster fin said..

I'm often the first out, and with Ks of empty beach, some tool will indefinitely paddle out and sit almost within arms reach of me and avoid eye contact. I say G'day and get stink-eyed.

Any time I paddle out to a spot where there is one guy out having a good time, I always try and make a point of letting the next few decent waves go through without even pretending like I am interested in them. Simply to make it obvious that I respect the fact he did the early and had it to himself and that I don't intend to come out and take everything away from him.

It's always resulted in a fun sesh where two strangers have had a bit of banter and cheered each other into waves.

No one owns the surf, regardless of how good you are or whether you are a local or not.
Paying dues is a load of crap and bandied about by narcissistic pricks who think they are better than every one else.
Every one has equal right to have a go, within their limits.
Take your turn, don't snake and don't drop in, as well as stay out of the way of riders when paddling out.
End of story.

^+1. Well said Beerdead. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of these types over here and the vibe in the water is usually pretty average compared to other states

I find agro dudes funny in the line up, getting all upset if someone makes a mistake, what a waste on energy!

Like they never had to learn at all.

Cant imagine it would be any fun sitting there in silence with a look on your face like you just sucked on a lemon!

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Souwester said..

I find agro dudes funny in the line up, getting all upset if someone makes a mistake, what a waste on energy!

Like they never had to learn at all.

Cant imagine it would be any fun sitting there in silence with a look on your face like you just sucked on a lemon!

Guys who are agro i normally find will only ever get vocal with either girls or youngens Nothing wrong with letting someone know if they are doing it wrong, but no need for agro..

I would find it boring if no one ever talked back to me

Not much bothers me in the surf. Probably because I am cr*p and surf cr*p waves. The only behaviours that annoy me is people acting like they own it (as mentioned above). I understand rippers get more; I get it. But I've seen the local, wannabe ripper yelling at people on waves while he is paddling out, then yelling as a set comes that it is his (claiming it before anyone is even in position and the wave is still on the horizon), then yelling at people as he is surfing a wave (the same situation he was yelling at people before hand).

I think the calling a wave while the whole line up is still paddling towards the horizon is pure arrogance in my opinion. On one of the waves I saw, it turned out by chance that when everyone turned their boards toward the beach, two or three guys were actually inside the arrogant guy and yet he still continued his "yep, yep yep" even though two guys were inside.

That behaviour annoys me more than learners, or anything else. At the end of the day, if you're surfing where I surf you're probably a pretty ** surfer anyway who should not act like they're on the tour. I mean, who claims mettams (or the like)!?

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PaddlePig said..
Not much bothers me in the surf. Probably because I am cr*p and surf cr*p waves. The only behaviours that annoy me is people acting like they own it (as mentioned above). I understand rippers get more; I get it. But I've seen the local, wannabe ripper yelling at people on waves while he is paddling out, then yelling as a set comes that it is his (claiming it before anyone is even in position and the wave is still on the horizon), then yelling at people as he is surfing a wave (the same situation he was yelling at people before hand).

I think the calling a wave while the whole line up is still paddling towards the horizon is pure arrogance in my opinion. On one of the waves I saw, it turned out by chance that when everyone turned their boards toward the beach, two or three guys were actually inside the arrogant guy and yet he still continued his "yep, yep yep" even though two guys were inside.

That behaviour annoys me more than learners, or anything else. At the end of the day, if you're surfing where I surf you're probably a pretty ** surfer anyway who should not act like they're on the tour. I mean, who claims mettams (or the like)!?

+1 the biff that I saw was at Mettams waist to shoulder height

Yeah I think that's what I meant dish licker. Surely it's not worth the agro...

Doggie, I surf in the usual **** spots in the Perth metro area. Scarbs/S Trigg in summer and Leighton in winter or when it's bigger.

To be honest I have noticed the bad vibes in Perth with the surf crew and it has bothered me for quite a while but it all came to a head when I was out surfing with my mates and we witnessed the arrogant aggressive nature of some surfers 1st hand.

My mate who is the least experienced of my crew dropped in on a guy by accident, it was one of those things, yes he shouldn't have, but I found out later that he didn't know the rules. So it was a genuine mistake and he felt horrible about it and apologised to the dude who's board got damaged. This dude was a total wank tho, and was going off on one calling him c this f that and generally being an agro arsehole. My mate got a large gash to his head at the time too and had to go to A and E to get it glued. This guy didn't care about my mate's head or the fact that he is a good guy who made a genuine mistake. He told him never to come back to that break and duly ruined his stoke and he didn't surf for weeks after then and probably won't surf there again. Who had the right to tell anyone that?! Nobody, that guy does not own the ocean, nor do I or any of you on here. A bit of respect and understanding is all really....
Incidentally my mate would have offered to have the guys board repaired but because he was such a dick he decided feck him!

"No one owns the surf, regardless of how good you are or whether you are a local or not. Paying dues is a load of crap and bandied about by narcissistic pricks who think they are better than every one else. Every one has equal right to have a go, within their limits. Take your turn, don't snake and don't drop in, as well as stay out of the way of riders when paddling out. End of story."

This proves that my faith in WA surfers is restored

I blame all the UFC on Telly, now every w*nker in the water thinks they are a hard w*nker...

Share the stoke guys, some of you moaners have absolutely no idea how fortunate you are just to be able to get out there in the first place!

Thinking back i have noticed a weird vibe in the water at times. But probably due to that i decided to body surf with fins on at the time. Swimming out to a break and then hoping to snatch a few probably raised a few eyebrows. Being less visible puts me in the danger zone so i usually end up down the line taking whats available. Weed beds can be fun!

I haven't posted on here for ages ,and listening to the gurus sprout on is pretty sad .+1 to all the guys giving you encouragement . I grew up and surfed scarbs and the crowds are a part of life . Don't let the few idiots and metro legends get you down , keep at it !

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sporto said..

My mate who is the least experienced of my crew dropped in on a guy by accident, it was one of those things, yes he shouldn't have, but I found out later that he didn't know the rules.

....and here we have it. Beginners without a clue paddling out at a crowded spot, not knowing what to do, and then creating a hazard to other surfers in the water.

It's just surfing. All you have to follow are two rules: look to your inside and don't snake. Better surfers can pick off beginners sitting on the inside while they're on the shoulder, generally making out if they'll make the wave or not. My encounter of the majority of better or good surfers have been pretty good. They'll let the odd one go to beginners and call them in. It's usually the minority that ruin it for the majority. Even better when you leave the metro area as everyone's even more chilled in the country side and with a bit of respect, alls good.

Now onto a grey area: mates whom drop in on you - especially with the wave of the day like this morning on a crowded line up. I've decided should this ever happen again, I may have to pump to catch up before taking them out on the wave kamikaze style

A young guy I surf with lots and his old man. This young guy is 14, rips and just got his first brand new stick. Anyway I took of on a wave, he was outside me on my back hand and as I pulled my bottom turn he had taken of and I was running straight at him, and his brand new board. I jumped onto him to shield him, but boards still collided. Anyway it was his fault but it didn't stop me feeling any worse For weeks. Even this morning he was out and he had another new board, I reminded him to stay well clear of me

Luckily no damage and he was obviously very apologetic. My point is accidents happen its just part of surfing to some extent

I think many people just get caught out new to surfing, not understanding how hard to ocean can be to deal with and very quickly get out of the depth(ability wise)

How do you drop in by accident? Do you have neck issues so you can't turn your head? Or hearing issues like the poor booger who couldn't hear me yesterday? Or poor reaction times like the many guys who just sat there waiting to get hit by me and a few others today and especially yesterday?

Lol at encouraging others. Why? It's already crowded so let's encourage more people?

Learner groms are doing just fine. At the two more populated places I surf there are heaps of them. Probably 20 on Thursday, 20 on Friday. They know their place and will ultimately progress to ruling the lineup. It's learner adults that refuse to accept their place at the bottom of the ladder that cause problems.

Lol at people not owning a spot. Try that theory at Pt Packed. Try that where I was yesterday. At one stage there was a pack of about 8 long-term locals, many years of experience and some very good surfers. State level, former and current. Try paddling out and taking turns with them.

Imagine a super consistent Pt Packed. A 3' day. Say 4 wave sets every 5 minutes. Everyone's equal, learners have the same rights as locals. An average crowd of 24 gets 2 waves an hour if they form an orderly queue. Yeah, right.

I think you and I are in the exact same mindset on this issue, Legion.

Maybe legion you could become the grand poobar in your spare time, and sit on the beach directing all newcomers,kooks,has beens on where to go and sit so us champs can have all the waves to ourselves