Select to expand quote

Ctngoodvibes said..
Mctavish are the best ya can get in my opinion. Flawless finish. Love the look of the 70s style blue bird model.

Love the look of the Sumo or Sherpa in a 6'10".

Would be awesome to see just how much "better" a near $1700 board performs against a $450 board?

And that's the real question here?

I've not ridden a $1700 board, and others have not ridden a recent $450 board.

But I did ride a $70 7'2" mid length Mini Mal on the weekend that I spent a day patching up so that I could give it toy son as a Birthday present. And guess what? It was a pop out and it was an awesome ride for a $70 board with a slight twist in the nose.

And I have seen many others riding expensive branded boards and not get the same wave count, fun, or performance that I do out of mine with a $60 set of fins upgrade.

But yeah I drool over some of the shapes as well, they just look right.

More and more what Mick said.

Time for a new copywriter btw.

producing surfboards is big business, big profits for some.

I think most of the bigger Australian manufacturers have moved their production overseas then ship back to Australia.

you could probably still find an old school shaper along the coast, but you would probably pay $1000 minimum for a truly hand shaped custom.

if your not prepared to do that, then you have to ride the machine made board built in asia or australia or buy second hand. (then finding a second hand board that was hand shaped)

IF i was planning on getting a hand shaped board, I would like to be sure who was shaping it, who was glassing it, who was sticking the fins on, before i parted with my cash.

surfblanks sell machine cut boards ready for finishing

surfblanksaustralia.com/collections/all-blanks

like I said, I intend hacking out my own board.

(ps my brand name wetsuit was made in thailand)

do you buy the ozito or the makita?

some links for the discussion

www.surfer.com/features/imported-surfboards-effect-surf-culture/

www.theinertia.com/surf/trump-administration-tariff-surfboards-china-trade-war/

www.facebook.com/groups/1716467161964739/

pic to add some perspective

This one is a good article as well

www.coastalwatch.com/surfing/25494/nick-carroll-5-690-634-surfboards-in-just-five-years


Buying a cheap board for summer in a quiver isn't going to kill the industry. Cheap imports have been around since the 80s. They serve a purpose but without the local industry what happens to r & d, support for local junior surfers, local board riders etc, environmental groups like surf rider and all theAussie business that create a Surfing community.

Don't see the cheap import brands supporting any of that stuff.

Buy what you want but don't tell us they are equivalent or that it is anything more than a purely financial decision and transaction for you and the owner.

The cost of saving a few bucks in your pocket may be a trade off somewhere elsewhere in the scheme of things.

Ok ,can a SBW board be a thing of beauty? Like a custom board?

I'm loving this discussion.

Seems like I hit some raw nerves.

Commerce is the thing, big bucks against big names. My beef has never been against the struggling custom shape maker or glasser.

But don't go comparing offshore "brand" name boards, and yes a large portion of the so called "brand" names that associate themselves with legend shaper names are made offshore. So don't go making claims that it is worth 3 time the price to pay for a "branded" shape made offshore versus a non branded shape made offshore.

If you are that much of a purist be a purist. Go to your local shaper and see where they make their kit, go out back and see what the cartons say and do a dumpster dive and find the source of their materials.

Everyone here and I know that yes you can get a performance advantage from a custom, that is not in question. The amount of advantage versus the skill level that will realise the advantage is in question for 3 times the price.

Big brands that are privatised are under pressure to produce profits for shareholders, no profit, no business. So the squeeze is on to drive down costs and maximize margins, to differentiate in a saturated market, to not just sell a product but a hipster image and cool cat lifestyle.

Don't fool yourselves kids, the marketing jocks have it over you in spades.

If you want to be a purist who champions the Australian shaper and maker then do that, but do it against full disclosure, full transparency of supply chain right down to where the sandpaper and tools are made.

Famous brands have sold out to cheap manufacture just as much as warehouse imports, the difference is that at least the warehouse imports do not try to blind you with marketing BS and a vibe that tried to con you in to believing it is anything other.

People want to call BS on this prove me wrong, let's fact up exactly who makes what where and how? What their supply sources are? Where they get their resins, blanks, cloth, tools, fins etc.

Arrogant bunch of *ricks who cry foul but prove nothing other than regurgitate a whole lot of marketing BS that they have blindly swallowed.

If MacT make em in Oz state 100% made in Oz. Or state made in Oz from locally sourced and imported, and state the % split based on materials consumed and not on labour involved. If you are all so worried about sweat shop labour leave that out of the equation.

Will my cheap board still be around in 10 years? Likely not, but the only brand name boards that i see around now are the ones that have been in mothballs for a decade or two. And then they are old school design and inferior to modern purist performance advantages.

Seriously, people saying in one breath that cheap boards under perform so you should get a custom or brand name board. Then in the next saying that they don't last as long as a brand board etc. What is it you want? A brand name that will last 10 years and somehow over that time transform itself to maintain a performance advantage over a cheap board? Hell I could buy a new cheap board every 5 years and be riding something that surpasses the branded board by my second board. And it will still only cost me half as much.

Like I said not dissing the real people, selling what they say and not giving in to the pressure of offshore manufacture, more power to them.

But people getting nasty and bent outta shape because I dare challenge the fragile image that they want to believe in and protect, built by corporate greed and BS marketing? Come on, seriously you guys are deeper than that?

When I boil it down I really do not think we are that different in our desire, to see real shapers benefit from the growth in the sport that we love. It's just a fact that we now reside in a global economy that does nothing to protect these guys. And like I said in one post before, the imports where inevitable, it had to happen to match the demand the exists because your local shaper would never be able to give everyone that surfs the one on one custom design that many claim their boards represent.

Damn I like poking the hornets nest, you guys are so easy to get a rise from it.

As for supporting any of that stuff? I think we have very different ideology on that front, supporting or using it as a launch platform?

local industry will always have a place, it has and continues to transition in an effort to remain competitive and relevant. Demand will always dictate a local supply source because purists will always exist. And that is a great thing, but do not for one moment be fooled that everyone who claims shaper god rights and Australian made is giving you full disclosure, dumpster dive if you are a purist and find out the truth before you hand them 3 time the coin for a board that has the same cost base as my import, all for a sticker that says _"insert brand name here"_.

Hell I could link you up with any number of board factories in China that pump out their product and they will happily put whoevers brand name you want on that shapers design. You can happily import these in their droves, wax them up, surf them a couple of times and then dump them into the seconds market as the "brand" name boards that they "are" and still make 150% profit.

Unethical? Absolutely.

Illegal? Absolutely but only if sold as new.

But I guarantee that it will or is already happening just like Nikes, Rolex, and any other surf label clothing at markets across Oz.

And all the salty sheep said Baaaahhhh as the bowed down to the shaper gods that they worshiped.

Whilst the real shapers quietly and methodically crafted their wares under the inspiration of, and yearning to understand and engage with the almighty shape tester himself, the ocean.

At least I know where my board was really made.

Select to expand quote

Hydromann said..
I'm loving this discussion.

Seems like I hit some raw nerves.

Commerce is the thing, big bucks against big names. My beef has never been against the struggling custom shape maker or glasser.

But don't go comparing offshore "brand" name boards, and yes a large portion of the so called "brand" names that associate themselves with legend shaper names are made offshore. So don't go making claims that it is worth 3 time the price to pay for a "branded" shape made offshore versus a non branded shape made offshore.

If you are that much of a purist be a purist. Go to your local shaper and see where they make their kit, go out back and see what the cartons say and do a dumpster dive and find the source of their materials.

Everyone here and I know that yes you can get a performance advantage from a custom, that is not in question. The amount of advantage versus the skill level that will realise the advantage is in question for 3 times the price.

Big brands that are privatised are under pressure to produce profits for shareholders, no profit, no business. So the squeeze is on to drive down costs and maximize margins, to differentiate in a saturated market, to not just sell a product but a hipster image and cool cat lifestyle.

Don't fool yourselves kids, the marketing jocks have it over you in spades.

If you want to be a purist who champions the Australian shaper and maker then do that, but do it against full disclosure, full transparency of supply chain right down to where the sandpaper and tools are made.

Famous brands have sold out to cheap manufacture just as much as warehouse imports, the difference is that at least the warehouse imports do not try to blind you with marketing BS and a vibe that tried to con you in to believing it is anything other.

People want to call BS on this prove me wrong, let's fact up exactly who makes what where and how? What their supply sources are? Where they get their resins, blanks, cloth, tools, fins etc.

Arrogant bunch of *ricks who cry foul but prove nothing other than regurgitate a whole lot of marketing BS that they have blindly swallowed.

If MacT make em in Oz state 100% made in Oz. Or state made in Oz from locally sourced and imported, and state the % split based on materials consumed and not on labour involved. If you are all so worried about sweat shop labour leave that out of the equation.

Will my cheap board still be around in 10 years? Likely not, but the only brand name boards that i see around now are the ones that have been in mothballs for a decade or two. And then they are old school design and inferior to modern purist performance advantages.

Seriously, people saying in one breath that cheap boards under perform so you should get a custom or brand name board. Then in the next saying that they don't last as long as a brand board etc. What is it you want? A brand name that will last 10 years and somehow over that time transform itself to maintain a performance advantage over a cheap board? Hell I could buy a new cheap board every 5 years and be riding something that surpasses the branded board by my second board. And it will still only cost me half as much.

Like I said not dissing the real people, selling what they say and not giving in to the pressure of offshore manufacture, more power to them.

But people getting nasty and bent outta shape because I dare challenge the fragile image that they want to believe in and protect, built by corporate greed and BS marketing? Come on, seriously you guys are deeper than that?

When I boil it down I really do not think we are that different in our desire, to see real shapers benefit from the growth in the sport that we love. It's just a fact that we now reside in a global economy that does nothing to protect these guys. And like I said in one post before, the imports where inevitable, it had to happen to match the demand the exists because your local shaper would never be able to give everyone that surfs the one on one custom design that many claim their boards represent.

Damn I like poking the hornets nest, you guys are so easy to get a rise from it.

As for supporting any of that stuff? I think we have very different ideology on that front, supporting or using it as a launch platform?

local industry will always have a place, it has and continues to transition in an effort to remain competitive and relevant. Demand will always dictate a local supply source because purists will always exist. And that is a great thing, but do not for one moment be fooled that everyone who claims shaper god rights and Australian made is giving you full disclosure, dumpster dive if you are a purist and find out the truth before you hand them 3 time the coin for a board that has the same cost base as my import, all for a sticker that says _"insert brand name here"_.

Hell I could link you up with any number of board factories in China that pump out their product and they will happily put whoevers brand name you want on that shapers design. You can happily import these in their droves, wax them up, surf them a couple of times and then dump them into the seconds market as the "brand" name boards that they "are" and still make 150% profit.

Unethical? Absolutely.

Illegal? Absolutely but only if sold as new.

But I guarantee that it will or is already happening just like Nikes, Rolex, and any other surf label clothing at markets across Oz.

And all the salty sheep said Baaaahhhh as the bowed down to the shaper gods that they worshiped.

Whilst the real shapers quietly and methodically crafted their wares under the inspiration of, and yearning to understand and engage with the almighty shape tester himself, the ocean.

At least I know where my board was really made.

Seems you are getting bitter perhaps you're nerve has been hit

Are Sbwh paying you buy the word?

Select to expand quote

Macaha said..
Ok ,can a SBW board be a thing of beauty? Like a custom board?

Yes, check out what MacT himself says about board refinement.

www.mctavish.com.au/blogs/stories-2/cut-in-some-concave

His philosophy is to take the shape you have, the thing that you are used to and remodel it to suit you. Fine tune it, reshape elements of it, change fins!

You all know what I bought, and I paid a third of the price of a MacT of a similar design and size.

So for me it's no big thing to hack in a few more FCS plugs to test fin placement. It's no big thing for me to sand through my fiberglass and into the blank to give the nose some more concave, hell even MacT did that. It's no big thing to transform it from a diamond tail to a swallow tail if I find that riding twins is my jam.

For $450 I can even thin out my rails to get some better drive if they needed it, but they don't.

I bought a solid core design that I can mess around with and have fun not just in the water but through experimentation, and I can do this all on a supposedly crap import board without going broke if I wanted to.

So yeah if your that way inclined and you love to tinker you can dial it into a thing of beauty, and I will do exactly that over time as I find flaws that do not suit me. And when I am done and have my hacked you board that rides like a dream in whatever conditions I choose to ride i can take it to a real shaper and have them do it justice in a new custom board for me.

But most kooks that buy them are not in that mind set, they are entry level with a budget, they may not even stick with it or they may and then progress to a "brand" board or a custom design. And in my book that is only good for the local economy and industry, just don't get sucker punched by marketing in the process.

Select to expand quote

Macaha said..

Hydromann said..
I'm loving this discussion.

Seems like I hit some raw nerves.

Commerce is the thing, big bucks against big names. My beef has never been against the struggling custom shape maker or glasser.

But don't go comparing offshore "brand" name boards, and yes a large portion of the so called "brand" names that associate themselves with legend shaper names are made offshore. So don't go making claims that it is worth 3 time the price to pay for a "branded" shape made offshore versus a non branded shape made offshore.

If you are that much of a purist be a purist. Go to your local shaper and see where they make their kit, go out back and see what the cartons say and do a dumpster dive and find the source of their materials.

Everyone here and I know that yes you can get a performance advantage from a custom, that is not in question. The amount of advantage versus the skill level that will realise the advantage is in question for 3 times the price.

Big brands that are privatised are under pressure to produce profits for shareholders, no profit, no business. So the squeeze is on to drive down costs and maximize margins, to differentiate in a saturated market, to not just sell a product but a hipster image and cool cat lifestyle.

Don't fool yourselves kids, the marketing jocks have it over you in spades.

If you want to be a purist who champions the Australian shaper and maker then do that, but do it against full disclosure, full transparency of supply chain right down to where the sandpaper and tools are made.

Famous brands have sold out to cheap manufacture just as much as warehouse imports, the difference is that at least the warehouse imports do not try to blind you with marketing BS and a vibe that tried to con you in to believing it is anything other.

People want to call BS on this prove me wrong, let's fact up exactly who makes what where and how? What their supply sources are? Where they get their resins, blanks, cloth, tools, fins etc.

Arrogant bunch of *ricks who cry foul but prove nothing other than regurgitate a whole lot of marketing BS that they have blindly swallowed.

If MacT make em in Oz state 100% made in Oz. Or state made in Oz from locally sourced and imported, and state the % split based on materials consumed and not on labour involved. If you are all so worried about sweat shop labour leave that out of the equation.

Will my cheap board still be around in 10 years? Likely not, but the only brand name boards that i see around now are the ones that have been in mothballs for a decade or two. And then they are old school design and inferior to modern purist performance advantages.

Seriously, people saying in one breath that cheap boards under perform so you should get a custom or brand name board. Then in the next saying that they don't last as long as a brand board etc. What is it you want? A brand name that will last 10 years and somehow over that time transform itself to maintain a performance advantage over a cheap board? Hell I could buy a new cheap board every 5 years and be riding something that surpasses the branded board by my second board. And it will still only cost me half as much.

Like I said not dissing the real people, selling what they say and not giving in to the pressure of offshore manufacture, more power to them.

But people getting nasty and bent outta shape because I dare challenge the fragile image that they want to believe in and protect, built by corporate greed and BS marketing? Come on, seriously you guys are deeper than that?

When I boil it down I really do not think we are that different in our desire, to see real shapers benefit from the growth in the sport that we love. It's just a fact that we now reside in a global economy that does nothing to protect these guys. And like I said in one post before, the imports where inevitable, it had to happen to match the demand the exists because your local shaper would never be able to give everyone that surfs the one on one custom design that many claim their boards represent.

Damn I like poking the hornets nest, you guys are so easy to get a rise from it.

As for supporting any of that stuff? I think we have very different ideology on that front, supporting or using it as a launch platform?

local industry will always have a place, it has and continues to transition in an effort to remain competitive and relevant. Demand will always dictate a local supply source because purists will always exist. And that is a great thing, but do not for one moment be fooled that everyone who claims shaper god rights and Australian made is giving you full disclosure, dumpster dive if you are a purist and find out the truth before you hand them 3 time the coin for a board that has the same cost base as my import, all for a sticker that says _"insert brand name here"_.

Hell I could link you up with any number of board factories in China that pump out their product and they will happily put whoevers brand name you want on that shapers design. You can happily import these in their droves, wax them up, surf them a couple of times and then dump them into the seconds market as the "brand" name boards that they "are" and still make 150% profit.

Unethical? Absolutely.

Illegal? Absolutely but only if sold as new.

But I guarantee that it will or is already happening just like Nikes, Rolex, and any other surf label clothing at markets across Oz.

And all the salty sheep said Baaaahhhh as the bowed down to the shaper gods that they worshiped.

Whilst the real shapers quietly and methodically crafted their wares under the inspiration of, and yearning to understand and engage with the almighty shape tester himself, the ocean.

At least I know where my board was really made.

Seems you are getting bitter perhaps you're nerve has been hit

Nah not bitter at all brother, just pissed by the lack of any real understanding of marketing and commerce and how we all so easily become sheep flocking to our shaper shepards.

And as I have said some but not all of them are real, and more power to the real ones, Grant Miller comes to mind when I type that but there are a thousand other local ones around the country and one day one of them will hear the jingle of my coin.

"SP = Are Sbwh paying you buy the word?"

Nope, full disclosure. Not even a sticker, I simply bought one of there boards and it seems wrong to let misinformation and bias cloud the quality and ride of that.

Select to expand quote

SP said..
This one is a good article as well

www.coastalwatch.com/surfing/25494/nick-carroll-5-690-634-surfboards-in-just-five-years


Buying a cheap board for summer in a quiver isn't going to kill the industry. Cheap imports have been around since the 80s. They serve a purpose but without the local industry what happens to r & d, support for local junior surfers, local board riders etc, environmental groups like surf rider and all theAussie business that create a Surfing community.

Don't see the cheap import brands supporting any of that stuff.

Buy what you want but don't tell us they are equivalent or that it is anything more than a purely financial decision and transaction for you and the owner.

The cost of saving a few bucks in your pocket may be a trade off somewhere elsewhere in the scheme of things.

Good article SP, lines up with what I said about locals would not be able to keep up with demand. So some clever economics graduate made a marketing model to entice people into a lifestyle choice and buy cheap imports.

A big hit in the short term to local shapers, takes a big chunk from bottom line when even dedicated customers skip a seasonal buy and try a pop out like Mac has even admitted to.

But like in the US they will bounce back, they will benefit as the number base of surfers who are now wanting a dialed in performance comes knocking on their doors.

Select to expand quote

Hydromann said..
I'm loving this discussion.

Seems like I hit some raw nerves.

Commerce is the thing, big bucks against big names. My beef has never been against the struggling custom shape maker or glasser.

But don't go comparing offshore "brand" name boards, and yes a large portion of the so called "brand" names that associate themselves with legend shaper names are made offshore. So don't go making claims that it is worth 3 time the price to pay for a "branded" shape made offshore versus a non branded shape made offshore.

If you are that much of a purist be a purist. Go to your local shaper and see where they make their kit, go out back and see what the cartons say and do a dumpster dive and find the source of their materials.

Everyone here and I know that yes you can get a performance advantage from a custom, that is not in question. The amount of advantage versus the skill level that will realise the advantage is in question for 3 times the price.

Big brands that are privatised are under pressure to produce profits for shareholders, no profit, no business. So the squeeze is on to drive down costs and maximize margins, to differentiate in a saturated market, to not just sell a product but a hipster image and cool cat lifestyle.

Don't fool yourselves kids, the marketing jocks have it over you in spades.

If you want to be a purist who champions the Australian shaper and maker then do that, but do it against full disclosure, full transparency of supply chain right down to where the sandpaper and tools are made.

Famous brands have sold out to cheap manufacture just as much as warehouse imports, the difference is that at least the warehouse imports do not try to blind you with marketing BS and a vibe that tried to con you in to believing it is anything other.

People want to call BS on this prove me wrong, let's fact up exactly who makes what where and how? What their supply sources are? Where they get their resins, blanks, cloth, tools, fins etc.

Arrogant bunch of *ricks who cry foul but prove nothing other than regurgitate a whole lot of marketing BS that they have blindly swallowed.

If MacT make em in Oz state 100% made in Oz. Or state made in Oz from locally sourced and imported, and state the % split based on materials consumed and not on labour involved. If you are all so worried about sweat shop labour leave that out of the equation.

Will my cheap board still be around in 10 years? Likely not, but the only brand name boards that i see around now are the ones that have been in mothballs for a decade or two. And then they are old school design and inferior to modern purist performance advantages.

Seriously, people saying in one breath that cheap boards under perform so you should get a custom or brand name board. Then in the next saying that they don't last as long as a brand board etc. What is it you want? A brand name that will last 10 years and somehow over that time transform itself to maintain a performance advantage over a cheap board? Hell I could buy a new cheap board every 5 years and be riding something that surpasses the branded board by my second board. And it will still only cost me half as much.

Like I said not dissing the real people, selling what they say and not giving in to the pressure of offshore manufacture, more power to them.

But people getting nasty and bent outta shape because I dare challenge the fragile image that they want to believe in and protect, built by corporate greed and BS marketing? Come on, seriously you guys are deeper than that?

When I boil it down I really do not think we are that different in our desire, to see real shapers benefit from the growth in the sport that we love. It's just a fact that we now reside in a global economy that does nothing to protect these guys. And like I said in one post before, the imports where inevitable, it had to happen to match the demand the exists because your local shaper would never be able to give everyone that surfs the one on one custom design that many claim their boards represent.

Damn I like poking the hornets nest, you guys are so easy to get a rise from it.

As for supporting any of that stuff? I think we have very different ideology on that front, supporting or using it as a launch platform?

local industry will always have a place, it has and continues to transition in an effort to remain competitive and relevant. Demand will always dictate a local supply source because purists will always exist. And that is a great thing, but do not for one moment be fooled that everyone who claims shaper god rights and Australian made is giving you full disclosure, dumpster dive if you are a purist and find out the truth before you hand them 3 time the coin for a board that has the same cost base as my import, all for a sticker that says _"insert brand name here"_.

Hell I could link you up with any number of board factories in China that pump out their product and they will happily put whoevers brand name you want on that shapers design. You can happily import these in their droves, wax them up, surf them a couple of times and then dump them into the seconds market as the "brand" name boards that they "are" and still make 150% profit.

Unethical? Absolutely.

Illegal? Absolutely but only if sold as new.

But I guarantee that it will or is already happening just like Nikes, Rolex, and any other surf label clothing at markets across Oz.

And all the salty sheep said Baaaahhhh as the bowed down to the shaper gods that they worshiped.

Whilst the real shapers quietly and methodically crafted their wares under the inspiration of, and yearning to understand and engage with the almighty shape tester himself, the ocean.

At least I know where my board was really made.

Yawn

Select to expand quote

Hydromann said..

Macaha said..

Hydromann said..
I'm loving this discussion.

Seems like I hit some raw nerves.

Commerce is the thing, big bucks against big names. My beef has never been against the struggling custom shape maker or glasser.

But don't go comparing offshore "brand" name boards, and yes a large portion of the so called "brand" names that associate themselves with legend shaper names are made offshore. So don't go making claims that it is worth 3 time the price to pay for a "branded" shape made offshore versus a non branded shape made offshore.

If you are that much of a purist be a purist. Go to your local shaper and see where they make their kit, go out back and see what the cartons say and do a dumpster dive and find the source of their materials.

Everyone here and I know that yes you can get a performance advantage from a custom, that is not in question. The amount of advantage versus the skill level that will realise the advantage is in question for 3 times the price.

Big brands that are privatised are under pressure to produce profits for shareholders, no profit, no business. So the squeeze is on to drive down costs and maximize margins, to differentiate in a saturated market, to not just sell a product but a hipster image and cool cat lifestyle.

Don't fool yourselves kids, the marketing jocks have it over you in spades.

If you want to be a purist who champions the Australian shaper and maker then do that, but do it against full disclosure, full transparency of supply chain right down to where the sandpaper and tools are made.

Famous brands have sold out to cheap manufacture just as much as warehouse imports, the difference is that at least the warehouse imports do not try to blind you with marketing BS and a vibe that tried to con you in to believing it is anything other.

People want to call BS on this prove me wrong, let's fact up exactly who makes what where and how? What their supply sources are? Where they get their resins, blanks, cloth, tools, fins etc.

Arrogant bunch of *ricks who cry foul but prove nothing other than regurgitate a whole lot of marketing BS that they have blindly swallowed.

If MacT make em in Oz state 100% made in Oz. Or state made in Oz from locally sourced and imported, and state the % split based on materials consumed and not on labour involved. If you are all so worried about sweat shop labour leave that out of the equation.

Will my cheap board still be around in 10 years? Likely not, but the only brand name boards that i see around now are the ones that have been in mothballs for a decade or two. And then they are old school design and inferior to modern purist performance advantages.

Seriously, people saying in one breath that cheap boards under perform so you should get a custom or brand name board. Then in the next saying that they don't last as long as a brand board etc. What is it you want? A brand name that will last 10 years and somehow over that time transform itself to maintain a performance advantage over a cheap board? Hell I could buy a new cheap board every 5 years and be riding something that surpasses the branded board by my second board. And it will still only cost me half as much.

Like I said not dissing the real people, selling what they say and not giving in to the pressure of offshore manufacture, more power to them.

But people getting nasty and bent outta shape because I dare challenge the fragile image that they want to believe in and protect, built by corporate greed and BS marketing? Come on, seriously you guys are deeper than that?

When I boil it down I really do not think we are that different in our desire, to see real shapers benefit from the growth in the sport that we love. It's just a fact that we now reside in a global economy that does nothing to protect these guys. And like I said in one post before, the imports where inevitable, it had to happen to match the demand the exists because your local shaper would never be able to give everyone that surfs the one on one custom design that many claim their boards represent.

Damn I like poking the hornets nest, you guys are so easy to get a rise from it.

As for supporting any of that stuff? I think we have very different ideology on that front, supporting or using it as a launch platform?

local industry will always have a place, it has and continues to transition in an effort to remain competitive and relevant. Demand will always dictate a local supply source because purists will always exist. And that is a great thing, but do not for one moment be fooled that everyone who claims shaper god rights and Australian made is giving you full disclosure, dumpster dive if you are a purist and find out the truth before you hand them 3 time the coin for a board that has the same cost base as my import, all for a sticker that says _"insert brand name here"_.

Hell I could link you up with any number of board factories in China that pump out their product and they will happily put whoevers brand name you want on that shapers design. You can happily import these in their droves, wax them up, surf them a couple of times and then dump them into the seconds market as the "brand" name boards that they "are" and still make 150% profit.

Unethical? Absolutely.

Illegal? Absolutely but only if sold as new.

But I guarantee that it will or is already happening just like Nikes, Rolex, and any other surf label clothing at markets across Oz.

And all the salty sheep said Baaaahhhh as the bowed down to the shaper gods that they worshiped.

Whilst the real shapers quietly and methodically crafted their wares under the inspiration of, and yearning to understand and engage with the almighty shape tester himself, the ocean.

At least I know where my board was really made.

Seems you are getting bitter perhaps you're nerve has been hit

Nah not bitter at all brother, just pissed by the lack of any real understanding of marketing and commerce and how we all so easily become sheep flocking to our shaper shepards.

And as I have said some but not all of them are real, and more power to the real ones, Grant Miller comes to mind when I type that but there are a thousand other local ones around the country and one day one of them will hear the jingle of my coin.

"SP = Are Sbwh paying you buy the word?"

Nope, full disclosure. Not even a sticker, I simply bought one of there boards and it seems wrong to let misinformation and bias cloud the quality and ride of that.

Funny that I can walk into mct fancy showroom be gifted a lovely coffee and sit dow with Bob or any of the knowledgeable staff and talk all things in life, order a custom with all the changes I want and have it made right next to the fancy shop front. Maybe it's the 40 years of riding this fancy brand, maybe I don't see the marketing I just see quality boards made be talented Aussies and to put the icing on the cake, super nice people, no marketing can come close. Build a brand, make and hire quality products and staff. Win win in my game. No 15 year old selling rubbish to the inexperienced punters. These companies advertise everywhere on price points, it's the only thing they have going for them. Is there a market for them? Of course, not everyone is educated , have the funds for real surfboards or has the passion. Beats me, we have the best manufacturers in the world and people won't support them. Shame!

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Ctngoodvibes said...
Pretty much like a hypto then ! Ha ha
i thought the rails were super chunky on the hypto. But maybe in hindsight it may have been better if I tried it in the pe construction not the carbon construction as would have taken some of the cork feeling out of it.
ive seen so many guys that are actually decent surfers on hyptos that don't seem to suit em at all , all of em getting stuck in the lip . But no criticism of Hayden, love the holy grail that I have from him and watching and Craig Anderson on a hypto is sublime

The rails on the Hypto are chunky, my 9'0 Tolhurst LB is heaps knifier...but the Tajen is next level chunky m8. A 5'10 Tajen is probably compareable to a 6'8 Hytpto. You wait till you see one, you'll see what I mean & I havn't even mentioned the weird beaky nose the website pics don't show. Its a sh1t shape unless your surfing super fat waist to shoulder. But then you can get much better performing boards for those conditions & for the same price or less.

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MickPC said..

Ctngoodvibes said...
Pretty much like a hypto then ! Ha ha
i thought the rails were super chunky on the hypto. But maybe in hindsight it may have been better if I tried it in the pe construction not the carbon construction as would have taken some of the cork feeling out of it.
ive seen so many guys that are actually decent surfers on hyptos that don't seem to suit em at all , all of em getting stuck in the lip . But no criticism of Hayden, love the holy grail that I have from him and watching and Craig Anderson on a hypto is sublime

The rails on the Hypto are chunky, my 9'0 Tolhurst LB is heaps knifier...but the Tajen is next level chunky m8. A 5'10 Tajen is probably compareable to a 6'8 Hytpto. You wait till you see one, you'll see what I mean & I havn't even mentioned the weird beaky nose the website pics don't show. Its a sh1t shape unless your surfing super fat waist to shoulder. But then you can get much better performing boards for those conditions & for the same price or less.

I concur. I saw them in the flesh and they are just wrong.

and remember, despite H-man thinking he is the gate keeper for all things SBWH, I have three of their boards, like them all, and reckon one of them is in my top five boards.

Definitely pay by word.

MACAHA - "Funny that I can walk into mct fancy showroom be gifted a lovely coffee and sit dow with Bob or any of the knowledgeable staff and talk all things in life, order a custom with all the changes I want and have it made right next to the fancy shop front. Maybe it's the 40 years of riding this fancy brand, maybe I don't see the marketing I just see quality boards made be talented Aussies and to put the icing on the cake, super nice people, no marketing can come close. Build a brand, make and hire quality products and staff. Win win in my game. No 15 year old selling rubbish to the inexperienced punters. These companies advertise everywhere on price points, it's the only thing they have going for them. Is there a market for them? Of course, not everyone is educated , have the funds for real surfboards or has the passion. Beats me, we have the best manufacturers in the world and people won't support them. Shame!"

Agree fully. I have never been to their shop, I have been to any number of others that make claim to the same but deliver nothing near what you have encountered at MacT.

My hat is off to them and I deeply respect that level of service and dedication as well as experience, and that is exactly what someone wanting to pay 3 x the price for a near similar outcome board should expect as a minimum.

It's not a matter of not wanting to support them, it's a matter of understanding and knowledge. You are completely right and we have more common ground than many would believe. And by the sounds of things you are in the much more enviable position than me of having the funds to fulfill the wants and desires that you have in a board shape and experience.

More power to you on that front mate, if I am ever in your neck of the woods I will shout you a $1500 coffee at the MacT coffee shop.

To me it seems to me that they sell some of the most expensive gifted coffee in the world ;-)

And BTW Bob was a fifteen year old fetcher at one time in his life as well, lets not knock the young ones for having a crack at something they love no matter what path it takes. Give them a few decades in Bob's shoes and I'm sure that they will also be able to be just as engaging and knowledgeable.

FWIW I did not rely on the staff for my decision making, I used my own knowledge and research to make an informed decision. I agree that many will impulse buy based on price point and with little consideration to the design. But at the same time I also tested their knowledge through their online chat, and pretty much all of the guys I spoke to knew their stuff. Maybe not to the level of Bob, because that only comes with time and experience, but enough to guide people to the right purchase decision.

Not advertising them, not blowing their trumpet, just stating my encounter and experience with them.

thedrip - "despite H-man thinking he is the gate keeper for all things SBWH"

Hahahahahahahahahah .... nearly peed myself

Seriously guys, not the gatekeeper, not employed by them, no kickbacks, no free rides, nix, nada, nothing.

If any of you know the guy who own SBWH or has any contact with Beau Young hit them up and ask them to give me a job please , a broke unemployed prick like me could do with a helping hand.

I know how to make coffee and be engaging at 1/3 of the price and yes that was a dig at Macaha.

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skeghedd said..
producing surfboards is big business, big profits for some.

I think most of the bigger Australian manufacturers have moved their production overseas then ship back to Australia.

you could probably still find an old school shaper along the coast, but you would probably pay $1000 minimum for a truly hand shaped custom.

if your not prepared to do that, then you have to ride the machine made board built in asia or australia or buy second hand. (then finding a second hand board that was hand shaped)

IF i was planning on getting a hand shaped board, I would like to be sure who was shaping it, who was glassing it, who was sticking the fins on, before i parted with my cash.

surfblanks sell machine cut boards ready for finishing

surfblanksaustralia.com/collections/all-blanks

like I said, I intend hacking out my own board.

(ps my brand name wetsuit was made in thailand)

do you buy the ozito or the makita?

some links for the discussion

www.surfer.com/features/imported-surfboards-effect-surf-culture/

www.theinertia.com/surf/trump-administration-tariff-surfboards-china-trade-war/

www.facebook.com/groups/1716467161964739/

pic to add some perspective

$650 actually

Haha dig deep that didn't hurt, all in good fun

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Macaha said..
Haha dig deep that didn't hurt, all in good fun

Appreciate you contending with me on this topic dude.

These kind of convo's help me gain a greater appreciation and deeper perspective of the whole of something rather than just mine.

As much as I challenge other peoples opinions and perspectives I also appreciate them making me accountable for mine.

Cheers

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MickPC said..

Ctngoodvibes said...
Pretty much like a hypto then ! Ha ha
i thought the rails were super chunky on the hypto. But maybe in hindsight it may have been better if I tried it in the pe construction not the carbon construction as would have taken some of the cork feeling out of it.
ive seen so many guys that are actually decent surfers on hyptos that don't seem to suit em at all , all of em getting stuck in the lip . But no criticism of Hayden, love the holy grail that I have from him and watching and Craig Anderson on a hypto is sublime

The rails on the Hypto are chunky, my 9'0 Tolhurst LB is heaps knifier...but the Tajen is next level chunky m8. A 5'10 Tajen is probably compareable to a 6'8 Hytpto. You wait till you see one, you'll see what I mean & I havn't even mentioned the weird beaky nose the website pics don't show. Its a sh1t shape unless your surfing super fat waist to shoulder. But then you can get much better performing boards for those conditions & for the same price or less.

One man's trash is another man's treasure as the saying goes.
So true in surfing.

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Cuttlefish said..
One man's trash is another man's treasure as the saying goes.
So true in surfing.

Different tools for different jobs m8...waves are diff over East. Your quiver is spoton from what I've seen