Just over 50 litres. Most guns don't pack that much volume for size. But still handles so well

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DunkO said..
Just over 50 litres. Most guns don't pack that much volume for size. But still handles so well

I have only paddled mine around waist height waves felt like a log compared to what I normally ride but was surprised how it loosen up once it got going maybe this winter I'll get a chance to throw it over a edge or two.

I do get it out and fondle from time to time it does talk to me.

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jbshack said..
Id just like to say, personally i was surprised at the actual cost of custom boards. Maybe some are crazy priced shapers but my experience would be many are much cheaper than of the rack branded boards.

Absolutely, I looked at racks in shops and the name gouging pricing was crazy. But you will always get people who need to be seen in the right gear on the beach. Just never see them out in the water.

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JESUSGUS said..
I think youve been smoking Hydros man

Give me a good second hand board any day of the week. I like customs but its nice to see what your getting before you pay your hard earned dollars out. Always nice to look through second hand board racks. I hope it does work for you though Its never nice to read about crew buying boards and the quality isnt there or they dont live up to the expectation.

Jgus, Nah no smoking policy in play here mate.

The hands on won me, looking at pretty pictures online is all well and good. But actually laying your hand on something to feel the weight distribution, see the lines, slide your hand over her curves, check her vee ..... Surfboards that is.

SBWH had what I liked the look of on the shop floor. I got to see and feel it, and to check the quality first hand. Have surfed it a number of times now and am fine tuning my fin setup. Overall for the price, service, quality and value I have only one regret.

The actual board I wanted but could not afford was either a Miller SubX, or a Webber Diamond. Had been looking the secondhand market for months and on the West coast nothing.

The as soon as I spent my coin..... BAM, two on gumtree. A 6'10" Webber at $450 damaged and without any fins. Repair minimum $100, Soar replacement fins another $180, leash and cover another $100.

So even a used local costs more than what I got new from SBWH. And guess what, Webber a supposed Aussie board shaper gets them made in Asia. Not a criticism, just an obvious realisation by him that he needed to progress with the changes in the industry.

And at the end of the day it is that simple, evolve or die. Supply and demand are the basic Tennant's of Commerce. If you can supply a tool that gets the job done cheaper for a novice then you can create demand that broadens to market.

And this is why these boards are good for shapers. It broadens the user base exponentially more than a home grown cottage industry mentality could ever have achieved, especially when price gouging by trading on a name.

With a broader user base this the creates a down stream market for custom shapers. Once a person refund their skill level then they will go boutique and get a custom that suits them, their likes, wants, artistic tastes etc. And how that segment presents themselves to potential clients is a different marketing strategy again. They should not be trying to compete in a price war against imports, but should differentiate themselves based on their craftsmanship, artistic design work, and performance benefits of having the equivalent of a tailored suit.

Long story short I'm loving the CJet tuned in as a quad for my current skill level. It has allowed me to get back into surfing after a 15 year break at an affordable price point. It has already redefined what my personal objectives are for the future of my surfing, either a manageable mid length or a higher volume shorter fish. And SBWH have options to cover me on this front as well with the Eco Bean.

I get the angst that these business models cause hard working shapers. But they are not the first people to suffer being displace by progress in a global market.

Someone made a very good point either in this thread or another that if they walked into an Aussie shapers workshop guarantee that they will find imported tools. Not Aussie made ones custom designed to a specific task.

Nuff said.

Glad it worked out for you hydro

your probs right about these guys having a place in the market maybe just not my market. there does seem to be a movement back to the under ground surf labels boards market style guys making shirts and stuff. Local shapers making cheap customs. The big surf companies seem out of touch with surfers these days. More in tune with the stock market results and the WSL marketing programs.

Theres a cool shop at the local beach here called Livid skate. Yeah skate not surf. They are in touch selling cool decks one of shirts good coffee and have killer concerts in the lane way next to the shop from time to time. I often wonder if quicksilver was like that back in torquay in the early days

hope your finding some summer surf

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JESUSGUS said..
I often wonder if quicksilver was like that back in torquay in the early days

Rip Curl did ,I'm currently reading The Rip Curl Story and they partied hard back in the day.

A few older companies have added clothing, coffee shop and other add ons which appear to work for them.

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JESUSGUS said..
Glad it worked out for you hydro

your probs right about these guys having a place in the market maybe just not my market. there does seem to be a movement back to the under ground surf labels boards market style guys making shirts and stuff. Local shapers making cheap customs. The big surf companies seem out of touch with surfers these days. More in tune with the stock market results and the WSL marketing programs.

Theres a cool shop at the local beach here called Livid skate. Yeah skate not surf. They are in touch selling cool decks one of shirts good coffee and have killer concerts in the lane way next to the shop from time to time. I often wonder if quicksilver was like that back in torquay in the early days

hope your finding some summer surf

Yeah I hear ya. The soul has been corrupted. Well maybe not, surfing this morning and I was struck by how many were out there having a crack at it. And I love that, apart from the fact that every wave I tried to catch had a line of kooks standing with their SBWH boards tying to catch a wave right in the drop in zone.

And yesterday I had a dad, his wife and their two sons surfing the same peak as me. All fine except dear old dad dropping in on me five times in a row, and if I did give him an Oi he kept pushing so the lip broke early turned and paddled out again.

Seems that along with some soul manners and eticate have been thrown out for wave count and a bad example.

Everyone wants to look the part but no one wants to play it.

So what's this got to do with SBWH? Well they facilitate cheaper entry into the line up. Which I think is good for the sport unless your local is crowded out.

But credit where it is due they do supply a really easy to read and understand booklet with their boards on surf eticate. Just a shame that it seems so few read it.

As for the loss of the cottage industry that was attached to surfing. I don't know that I'd completely agree with that. I recon there is an amazing opportunity for the creatives to cater to the needs of the new generation of riders.

Sure lot's are riding popouts and labels trying to fit in and be relevant. But human nature doesn't change, everyone wants to be an individual still with their own distinctive style. Either in what they wear or what they ride.

I know for a fact that there are things that I want to spend money on that a popouts manufacturer can not do. For instance I love the look of the Soar twin fins with their quad keel type trailers.

I will when I can afford them buy a set, something that would never have happened if I kept waiting to jump back on a board until I could afford a $1200 custom.

SBWH gear got me back in the water, and have provided an opportunity in the near future for Soar Fins, and in the distant future for Webber Diamond or Miller SubX.

I blame the longboard riders who keep the soul alive as the ones who caused the kook explosion. ;-)

Everyone wants to be as cool as them.

Yeah bro +1 farking sick man yeah... for the pointers fark yeah...this vid gives great advice too. Please Note nobody wears a leggy coz they rip so hard, just like Hydroman with the fully sick non dodgy at all advice we've all been craving to hear....thanks so much Hydroman

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MickPC said..
Yeah bro +1 farking sick man yeah... for the pointers fark yeah...this vid gives great advice too. Please Note nobody wears a leggy coz they rip so hard, just like Hydroman with the fully sick non dodgy at all advice we've all been craving to hear....thanks so much Hydroman

Yeah right ;-) Glad you enjoyed it.....

Moral to story, surf what you can f*!?king afford to buy. For over 90% of surfers skill level the extra 10 to 15 % performance gain from a custom that costs twice as much is lost on them. Not to mention that most customs are built by a local who designs them for the predominant conditions that exist at a specific place and in a specifici time to cater to the "popular" style of the day.

Seriously people with their I'm better than you because I support local hypocricy and drive imported cars, use imported fridges, wear imported clothes, etc..

I came 3rd in schoolboys back in my day surfing a local made board that was not designed for the conditions or me, it was a Luke Egan hand me down that he hated. Everyone will find their groove on whatever they can afford and have a heap of fun doing so if they stop dreaming about being the next Kelly Slater or Brazo aero wiz kid.

Just some more dodgy advice for you and others MickPC ;-)

Bottom line it is what it is kooks and pop outs included as well as the corporate greed, people need to deal with it because all their whining is not gonna change a thing.

Nuff said from me, I'm goin surfing in full onshore 1 ' mush using an imported heap of crap that is killing local industry and poluting the environment. And guess what? I'm gonna love it regardless of the board or the conditions instead of whining about the sad state of things.

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Hydromann said..

MickPC said..
Yeah bro +1 farking sick man yeah... for the pointers fark yeah...this vid gives great advice too. Please Note nobody wears a leggy coz they rip so hard, just like Hydroman with the fully sick non dodgy at all advice we've all been craving to hear....thanks so much Hydroman

Yeah right ;-) Glad you enjoyed it.....

Moral to story, surf what you can f*!?king afford to buy. For over 90% of surfers skill level the extra 10 to 15 % performance gain from a custom that costs twice as much is lost on them. Not to mention that most customs are built by a local who designs them for the predominant conditions that exist at a specific place and in a specifici time to cater to the "popular" style of the day.

Seriously people with their I'm better than you because I support local hypocricy and drive imported cars, use imported fridges, wear imported clothes, etc..

I came 3rd in schoolboys back in my day surfing a local made board that was not designed for the conditions or me, it was a Luke Egan hand me down that he hated. Everyone will find their groove on whatever they can afford and have a heap of fun doing so if they stop dreaming about being the next Kelly Slater or Brazo aero wiz kid.

Just some more dodgy advice for you and others MickPC ;-)

Bottom line it is what it is kooks and pop outs included as well as the corporate greed, people need to deal with it because all their whining is not gonna change a thing.

Nuff said from me, I'm goin surfing in full onshore 1 ' mush using an imported heap of crap that is killing local industry and poluting the environment. And guess what? I'm gonna love it regardless of the board or the conditions instead of whining about the sad state of things.

You either work for surfboard whorehouse,or you are the greatest ****ing troll to join seabreeze in a long time

Because if you believe the tripe/your wisdom that you are dishing up....i can't do it.enjoy being whatever the **** you are ...

This thread is getting pretty funny. Ahh the passion over something that doesn't matter. Mickpc I thought you had a few ecs which are cut from the same mould as surfboard wharehouse?
another option is sideways have a mate who has a couple and says the quality is excellent. But they are made in indo not China.

Funny you should ask Captain, my 4th ECS arrived last Tuesday.

First 6'4 Bulldog I bought in March 2013 when Ryan was selling through ebay. $350 delivered, still have it, great longboard alternative.
2nd 6'0 Bulldog, negotiated over messenger with Ryan for $350 made in Bali & dropped off by then ECS teamrider Coby Perkovich who said it was the lightest one he'd ever felt. Fun board I rode for a couple of years but stopped riding when I got the $300 6'0 Bali made Hypto rip. I gave the Bulldog to the 11yo kid neighbour who loves it.
3rd $399 6'0 Drifter, Firewire GreedyBeaver rip. It was ok, but I could ride the Hypto rip in the same conditions. Sold it 3 months later.
Board that arrived last Tuesday I'd wanted to try for a long time. It is or was their "flagship" performance board. May have been discontinued or its just currently sold out, its no longer on the website. But anyway I got an email on Christmas Eve that they were on special for $399 with free delivery & fins. Its a light coloured Pawlowina wood with criss/cross black carbon on the bottom. 6'2 x 19.5 x 2.5. Really light & goes great. I wanted something performancy between my 6'4 DHD Ducks Nutz & 6'0 Hypto rip. After last Wednesday surf I reckon its fits that spot very well.

So current quiver is;
7'0 Delta for big stuff
6'6 Boyd Purdy for big sucky stuff
6'4 DHD Ducks Nutz for overhead sucky
6'2 ECS FF2 for general allround
6'1 Katana for crosshore winds
6'0 Hypto rip smaller/fatter
9'0 Tolhurst small stuff like today
8'10 Starboard SUP for up to thigh high summer slop

We get a few Industry rep's in here & its awesome to hear from guys like Bert Berger. Most are up front & honest about who they are...I like Cryspybro & I suspect prenty of other forum readers suspect Hydromann is a SWH PR bloke. Hence my pisstake

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chrispy said..

Hydromann said..

MickPC said..
Yeah bro +1 farking sick man yeah... for the pointers fark yeah...this vid gives great advice too. Please Note nobody wears a leggy coz they rip so hard, just like Hydroman with the fully sick non dodgy at all advice we've all been craving to hear....thanks so much Hydroman

Yeah right ;-) Glad you enjoyed it.....

Moral to story, surf what you can f*!?king afford to buy. For over 90% of surfers skill level the extra 10 to 15 % performance gain from a custom that costs twice as much is lost on them. Not to mention that most customs are built by a local who designs them for the predominant conditions that exist at a specific place and in a specifici time to cater to the "popular" style of the day.

Seriously people with their I'm better than you because I support local hypocricy and drive imported cars, use imported fridges, wear imported clothes, etc..

I came 3rd in schoolboys back in my day surfing a local made board that was not designed for the conditions or me, it was a Luke Egan hand me down that he hated. Everyone will find their groove on whatever they can afford and have a heap of fun doing so if they stop dreaming about being the next Kelly Slater or Brazo aero wiz kid.

Just some more dodgy advice for you and others MickPC ;-)

Bottom line it is what it is kooks and pop outs included as well as the corporate greed, people need to deal with it because all their whining is not gonna change a thing.

Nuff said from me, I'm goin surfing in full onshore 1 ' mush using an imported heap of crap that is killing local industry and poluting the environment. And guess what? I'm gonna love it regardless of the board or the conditions instead of whining about the sad state of things.

You either work for surfboard whorehouse,or you are the greatest ****ing troll to join seabreeze in a long time

Because if you believe the tripe/your wisdom that you are dishing up....i can't do it.enjoy being whatever the **** you are ...

Dude, Really? Taking this way personal or what?

Read the title bro, a sincere question was asked about what people think about SBWH boards?

Having just recently bought one for very obvious reasons I dropped my two bobs worth in for consideration, this little thing called freedom of speech let's me have a say and honestly answer from my perspective what I did and why.

I love your passion for Aussie built, and FYI me and one of my mates were making surfboards likely long before you wore a nappy. We sold a few and it didn't make much coin so we only did it on the side as a hobby. So as far as Aussie made boards go my hats off to all those guys who can still earn a living from it, but the reality is that SBWH boards are made better than what we made and pretty much most others back in the late 70's.

Are they up to locals? Don't know, don't ride a local and for all I know they could be 5 years behind.

As far as troll, like I said mate, my two bob's worth, no affiliation with SBWH, no kickbacks, no stickers, no freebies, nothing. Just my honest opinion on what I bought and why, these were my considerations and mine alone.

So really quite pathetic for you to be going off your chops and calling me an F****** troll.

If you don't have any interaction with SBWH or any other mass supplier and have never had one of their products then you can not speak with any authority or knowledge.

Have a great life and don't bother returning because it's people who react in such a narrow minded way that make others not want to engage in open and honest discussion about what they think when asked a question. My answers were based on facts rather than resentments and bias based in ignorance that you demonstrate.

Remind me to never sit in the same lineup as you.

And FYI anyone else.

ECS, SBWH and a raft of others are in the market and line ups around the country. If you seriously want to know what they are like don't come here and expect respectful answers. Get on ya bike and go have a look first hand, check out the seconds at your local shaper, check out the new boards at your local surf shop, and check out the imports that are 1/2 the price of some of the brands in your local surfshop because they are made in the same factories.

Make an informed decision and lie with it.

After that enjoy it to the best of your ability.

Given my experience with surfboard factory outlets I'll be a returning customer unless I suddenly win the lotto.

Yeh man ride what ya want I reckon. Who cares what everyone else thinks.

best bang for your buck is from snwh or ecs is longboards I reckon, half the price of a custom. Shortbboards not so much

mickpc how do you find the delta? Marty is a good shaper

What does SBWH stand for

I created this thread to gain opinions and viewpoints and believe me I have, I thank all for their contribution and input hateful or loving, it's appreciated.

I read it from the start and their is certainly a vary to the colour and shape of views on this.

I really want a desert storm have for a couple years, one came up one facie market place for 800 which was out of my range at the moment.

We we heard from Bert which was phenomenal, I'm just going to lurk here for a bit.

hydromann no one has really come out fully repping for surfboard warehouse so thank you for your honest review, but please also don't shoot at mick, we get heaps of crew on here trying to flog stuff and mick puts up a heap of non biased reviews and trip blogs and stuff and at times has kept this forum alive in times of flat spells and cognitive dissonance at work.

There are heaps of threads on here for a good verbal war but i have really tried to get as many opinions/reviews on this thread as possible.

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JESUSGUS said..
What does SBWH stand for

The W stands for Whore, so if you take the W out you may get it.

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Razzonater said..
I created this thread to gain opinions and viewpoints and believe me I have, I thank all for their contribution and input hateful or loving, it's appreciated.

I read it from the start and their is certainly a vary to the colour and shape of views on this.

I really want a desert storm have for a couple years, one came up one facie market place for 800 which was out of my range at the moment.

We we heard from Bert which was phenomenal, I'm just going to lurk here for a bit.

hydromann no one has really come out fully repping for surfboard warehouse so thank you for your honest review, but please also don't shoot at mick, we get heaps of crew on here trying to flog stuff and mick puts up a heap of non biased reviews and trip blogs and stuff and at times has kept this forum alive in times of flat spells and cognitive dissonance at work.

There are heaps of threads on here for a good verbal war but i have really tried to get as many opinions/reviews on this thread as possible.

Now Hydomann was doing just fine until he unloaded on the Australian Made. If he wants his opinion which he is rightly entitled too you will always receive others beit you agree or disagree.
Calling someone a troll is way less offensive than calling someone pathetic.

So if you want to buy a board worth $399 then spend $180 on fins well thats up to you.I have a mate who dose this,I laugh at him,why because I can.He rides a log model with quad plugs and centre box which come standard, sorry but that just dose not make sense when your have a log plan shape,flat rocker and 50/50 rails,
Call it banter call it what you like,its a forum so expect others to disagree.

Don't worry hydro Chrispy calls everyone a troll unless they ride clear waters, Mac calls everyone a troll unless they ride a mctavish . The funniest part of this thread was when Bert basically said the quality of some of the firewires he sees on the shop racks is crap , have to agree with him , and I own one ha ha

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Ctngoodvibes said..
Don't worry hydro Chrispy calls everyone a troll unless they ride clear waters, Mac calls everyone a troll unless they ride a mctavish . The funniest part of this thread was when Bert basically said the quality of some of the firewires he sees on the shop racks is crap , have to agree with him , and I own one ha ha

I looked at some FWs in the shop the other day, quality looked shocking. Heaps of sand throughs on the glass job, which is a shame as one of my favourite boards was a FireWire (chubby chedda). It was Fst construction and super durable until I smashed a fin out, got it repaired with Katana (he did a great job) but it was never the same after.

I've also had surfboard agency boards in the past (bullant that was sold through cordingleys) that were fun shapes but the epoxy glass jobs were really brittle and needed lots of ongoing repairs.And don't worry Chrispy, I've got multiple CWs I'm the quiver now!

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Ctngoodvibes said..
Don't worry hydro Chrispy calls everyone a troll unless they ride clear waters, Mac calls everyone a troll unless they ride a mctavish . The funniest part of this thread was when Bert basically said the quality of some of the firewires he sees on the shop racks is crap , have to agree with him , and I own one ha ha

Did someone say MC TAVISH for the record it wasn't me

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Macaha said..

Ctngoodvibes said..
Don't worry hydro Chrispy calls everyone a troll unless they ride clear waters, Mac calls everyone a troll unless they ride a mctavish . The funniest part of this thread was when Bert basically said the quality of some of the firewires he sees on the shop racks is crap , have to agree with him , and I own one ha ha

Did someone say MC TAVISH for the record it wasn't me

Well that's a first
dont blame you tho mctavishs are insanely good and so are clearwaters
but reckon everyone should lay off hydro I didn't see anywhere that he dissed customs , only said that mass produced boards have a place in the market , and I reckon he's right
normally wouldn't care to comment these days but I'm off work due to a crazy infection so bored to death

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Macaha said..

Razzonater said..
I created this thread to gain opinions and viewpoints and believe me I have, I thank all for their contribution and input hateful or loving, it's appreciated.

I read it from the start and their is certainly a vary to the colour and shape of views on this.

I really want a desert storm have for a couple years, one came up one facie market place for 800 which was out of my range at the moment.

We we heard from Bert which was phenomenal, I'm just going to lurk here for a bit.

hydromann no one has really come out fully repping for surfboard warehouse so thank you for your honest review, but please also don't shoot at mick, we get heaps of crew on here trying to flog stuff and mick puts up a heap of non biased reviews and trip blogs and stuff and at times has kept this forum alive in times of flat spells and cognitive dissonance at work.

There are heaps of threads on here for a good verbal war but i have really tried to get as many opinions/reviews on this thread as possible.

Now Hydomann was doing just fine until he unloaded on the Australian Made. If he wants his opinion which he is rightly entitled too you will always receive others beit you agree or disagree.
Calling someone a troll is way less offensive than calling someone pathetic.

So if you want to buy a board worth $399 then spend $180 on fins well thats up to you.I have a mate who dose this,I laugh at him,why because I can.He rides a log model with quad plugs and centre box which come standard, sorry but that just dose not make sense when your have a log plan shape,flat rocker and 50/50 rails,
Call it banter call it what you like,its a forum so expect others to disagree.

Mate I didn't unload on Aussie made. If you're flush with coin and can afford a dialled in ride do it. The rest of us peasants will buy seconds or pop outs that we can afford.

As for unloading on Mick check your facts. Shots fired first by him. And last time I checked it was more offensive to lay down two lots of expletives aimed at someone intentionally than that t was to call someone pathetic for doing so.

If Mick wants a verbal and logic war over his bias perspectives he will loose against me guaranteed. I did not dis him about his perspective or views and respected them untill he started shooting.

I get that he's pissy about imports, holden works are likely more so. But the very specific mole fact that someone has already tried to show him is that our gov signed up to free trade agreements, game over. We are now part of a boarder less global economy that mass production is causing the extinction of cottage industries.

Mick, if my impressions and honest comments offended you then you need to grow some and figure out how to articulate your frustrations better rather than unload on the newbie. Get over it, the horse has bolted and no amount of whining and bitching at people for honestly sharing their opinion in reply to a thread question will change that.

Flush with coin...


For a bloke that was asking the most basic of questions 2 weeks ago you sure are sure of yourself about the surf industry and boards.

Ha ha that's the thing, if ya look at ecs website for short boards a custom Clearwater SDR is actually cheaper!

Aww thanks Razman lol, but it shouldn't matter how many posts people have made or the content they've created. I value anyone else's opinion on here, be they a long time regular poster or new to the forum. Disagreements always get the forum firing haha & its always good to see new people posting. Like Hydroman says I was the first too take the piss on his posts because I thought he was a SWH PR man.....and I still do

Captain, yeah the Delta is a great board at places like Bears & Margs on bigger days. Gets in nice & early

Hydroman I don't disagree with you on the cheaper boards having a place in peoples quivers for fun boards. Like I said we get a few industry people popping in here, most are up front about it, some aren't I'm not offended in the slightest, I thought your first response was pretty cool & your second just a little confused. Its all just text on a page m8. Hava good 1

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MickPC said..
Aww thanks Razman lol, but it shouldn't matter how many posts people have made or the content they've created. I value anyone else's opinion on here, be they a long time regular poster or new to the forum. Disagreements always get the forum firing haha & its always good to see new people posting. Like Hydroman says I was the first too take the piss on his posts because I thought he was a SWH PR man.....and I still do

Captain, yeah the Delta is a great board at places like Bears & Margs on bigger days. Gets in nice & early

Hydroman I don't disagree with you on the cheaper boards having a place in peoples quivers for fun boards. Like I said we get a few industry people popping in here, most are up front about it, some aren't I'm not offended in the slightest, I thought your first response was pretty cool & your second just a little confused. Its all just text on a page m8. Hava good 1

So you raised the white flag Mick

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Ctngoodvibes said..
Ha ha that's the thing, if ya look at ecs website for short boards a custom Clearwater SDR is actually cheaper!

The ECS prices are mental now, I'd never pay that. I havta be pretty confident one of their boards will be something I'll get a good run out of before I give it away or sell it cheap & thats picking them up at sale price. Thats something you really need to factor in with these non brand boards, "resale". You know your gonna get good resale on a HS or Firewire etc But you will be lucky to get over $200 for a brand new condition no name brand unless you throw in some fins, leggy & boardbag to sweeten the deal.

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Macaha said..

MickPC said..
Aww thanks Razman lol, but it shouldn't matter how many posts people have made or the content they've created. I value anyone else's opinion on here, be they a long time regular poster or new to the forum. Disagreements always get the forum firing haha & its always good to see new people posting. Like Hydroman says I was the first too take the piss on his posts because I thought he was a SWH PR man.....and I still do

Captain, yeah the Delta is a great board at places like Bears & Margs on bigger days. Gets in nice & early

Hydroman I don't disagree with you on the cheaper boards having a place in peoples quivers for fun boards. Like I said we get a few industry people popping in here, most are up front about it, some aren't I'm not offended in the slightest, I thought your first response was pretty cool & your second just a little confused. Its all just text on a page m8. Hava good 1

So you raised the white flag Mick

Hey Mac you big troll you

Nah putting it straight m8...just reckon he sounds like a PR bloke. I wasn't arguing against any of what he was talking about in his last post.