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mazdon said..

Hydromann said..

I love your passion for Aussie built, and FYI me and one of my mates were making surfboards likely long before you wore a nappy. We sold a few and it didn't make much coin so we only did it on the side as a hobby. So as far as Aussie made boards go my hats off to all those guys who can still earn a living from it, but the reality is that SBWH boards are made better than what we made and pretty much most others back in the late 70's.

have enjoyed this thread! (especially the board pics)

so i'll give Hydro the benefit of the doubt and check whether the "late 70s" reference is meant to be applicable to your surfboard manufactoring days?
Cause at 54, that means you and old mate were glassing some foam when you were 10-15 years of age, while most others were doing lemonade stands or mowing dads lawn

Try 14 in 80. Messing around shaping foam earlier, mostly small models. Riding coolite boards and whatever else we could get our hands on. Remember we shaped one of them into what we wanted and tried to glass it, dang thing melted away on us. Who knew that would happen? Not us dump arse kids. Making fins from ply that we thought would be fun to glass but never had a decent board to put them in, which is where we started by using our repair kits.

Surely you had a school math book full of board designs, fin shapes, wave drawings, and girls privates like we had?

And yeah we mowed lawns, cleaned cars and whatever else we could to make some coin and buy what we needed.

Our first kinda serious shapes where back when MR was big in Newy where I grew up and surfed Bar Beach, Dixon Park and Merewether. So twin fins where all the rage, except for me, my parents thought they would surprise me with a big old 6'4" gun single G&S swallow tail. Man was I dissapointed, they and I didn't realise that riding such a big gun would really teach me how to drive the rail in. Put me in good stead for thrusters when they came out, all the twinny riders trying to thrash around on a thruster and just bogging down :-)

But I digress, our first shapes where typical experimental, way too thin and no volume or strength. Throwing in tail steps with deep channels, even nose steps on a couple. Made it hard as buggery to glass them so that always looked ****e, mostly a case of ambition outstripping talent at that age. I remember shaping a ripper little tear drop out of an old mal blank, we didn't have coin for new blanks so we salvaged and stripped old mals and used them. Man what some of those boards would be worth today.

And one board in particular that I absolutely wish I had today, a Crozier mid length. Rather narrow at about 19 inch for a 7'2" board, single fin box with a full length mild rocker and round pin. that thing was a dream machine to ride in anything from 1' grovel NE wind waves to a mild cyclone swell.

So yeah we messed around for years with ambition and no ability, was all good fun especially some of the designs and art work we came up with when baked. But young and dumb we shot ourselves in the foot, a mate was in the Salvo's and managed to get us free use of a storage warehouse to do shaping in, they kinda kicked us out when they found some artwork we did that they didn't appreciate, inspired by our school math books of course and the topless girls that sun baked at the cliff. After that it was pretty much game over, still messing around a bit but never committed to it full on, and by then the realities of life started impacting us a bit more. HSC's and the like to worry about, or getting an apprenticeship, as well as if you got your girl pregnant. That was about the only thing that could distract us from good surf, board shapes and skateboards back then, hormones.

Thinking back we really were a horrible bunch of groms but damn we had fun.

Likely should start a new thread called the nostalgia thread. Old surf trip stories, life experiences whatever..........

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Ctngoodvibes said...

Eh? Looks similar to the ecs drifter you had. Or didn't ya like that one?
* I'm priced out of the ecs market these days so not a consideration ha ha*

Exactly its the same as the ECS Drifter that I sold after 2 or 3 months. I tried all kinds of fin combo's, typical sides with a 5.5 inch centre, 6 inch centre, 8 inch centre with & without sides. It just surfed like a slug, so slow. You get going no worries, make it over flat sections ok. But it had a glass ceiling due to its width & rails. Had it out the local for an absolute magic day about may 2 years ago. Big long steep walls & although I was making sections no worries, it just didn't kick into top gear.

I'd recommend it if you lived on the Sunshine coast like Cuttlefish or planned to leave it at your mums place on the Sunshine coast like Drip. But its not suitable for your local break. Your better off taking out your longboard when its that small or getting one of the countless short, not so wide, narrow bladed tail options available.

Summer tends to have lower tides making the banks at your local suckier, so yeah ok fine up to waist high then becomes increasingly sketchy & you could of just had a few fun ones on the longboard up until that height. Then the mid winter higher tides of 0.9m to 1.1m there's more swell. Where some kinda Hypto type shape will serve you from waist to head & a 1/2. Just way more versatile than the slug. Unless your planning on surfing those reefies it would go alright there coz your cutbacking so much...but then again a Hypto type shape would also be better coz the narrower tail just has so much better response.

In short overlapping (quiver), little versatility/limited versatility.

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MickPC said..

Ctngoodvibes said...

Eh? Looks similar to the ecs drifter you had. Or didn't ya like that one?
* I'm priced out of the ecs market these days so not a consideration ha ha*

Exactly its the same as the ECS Drifter that I sold after 2 or 3 months. I tried all kinds of fin combo's, typical sides with a 5.5 inch centre, 6 inch centre, 8 inch centre with & without sides. It just surfed like a slug, so slow. You get going no worries, make it over flat sections ok. But it had a glass ceiling due to its width & rails. Had it out the local for an absolute magic day about may 2 years ago. Big long steep walls & although I was making sections no worries, it just didn't kick into top gear.

I'd recommend it if you lived on the Sunshine coast like Cuttlefish or planned to leave it at your mums place on the Sunshine coast like Drip. But its not suitable for your local break. Your better off taking out your longboard when its that small or getting one of the countless short, not so wide, narrow bladed tail options available.

Summer tends to have lower tides making the banks at your local suckier, so yeah ok fine up to waist high then becomes increasingly sketchy & you could of just had a few fun ones on the longboard up until that height. Then the mid winter higher tides of 0.9m to 1.1m there's more swell. Where some kinda Hypto type shape will serve you from waist to head & a 1/2. Just way more versatile than the slug. Unless your planning on surfing those reefies it would go alright there coz your cutbacking so much...but then again a Hypto type shape would also be better coz the narrower tail just has so much better response.

In short overlapping (quiver), little versatility/limited versatility.

It's funny you say that as initially I was after one of their longboards. Was intrigued by the shape of the snub nose tho. Want something to replace my FireWire longboard as had it for years.

i never liked the hypto. Tried it once and just couldn't gel with it. Felt very corky. But I have a Hayden holy grail but in pe not carbon version and absolutely love it for shoulder high and above out front. Epic board.

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Ctngoodvibes said..

MickPC said..

Ctngoodvibes said...

Eh? Looks similar to the ecs drifter you had. Or didn't ya like that one?
* I'm priced out of the ecs market these days so not a consideration ha ha*

Exactly its the same as the ECS Drifter that I sold after 2 or 3 months. I tried all kinds of fin combo's, typical sides with a 5.5 inch centre, 6 inch centre, 8 inch centre with & without sides. It just surfed like a slug, so slow. You get going no worries, make it over flat sections ok. But it had a glass ceiling due to its width & rails. Had it out the local for an absolute magic day about may 2 years ago. Big long steep walls & although I was making sections no worries, it just didn't kick into top gear.

I'd recommend it if you lived on the Sunshine coast like Cuttlefish or planned to leave it at your mums place on the Sunshine coast like Drip. But its not suitable for your local break. Your better off taking out your longboard when its that small or getting one of the countless short, not so wide, narrow bladed tail options available.

Summer tends to have lower tides making the banks at your local suckier, so yeah ok fine up to waist high then becomes increasingly sketchy & you could of just had a few fun ones on the longboard up until that height. Then the mid winter higher tides of 0.9m to 1.1m there's more swell. Where some kinda Hypto type shape will serve you from waist to head & a 1/2. Just way more versatile than the slug. Unless your planning on surfing those reefies it would go alright there coz your cutbacking so much...but then again a Hypto type shape would also be better coz the narrower tail just has so much better response.

In short overlapping (quiver), little versatility/limited versatility.

It's funny you say that as initially I was after one of their longboards. Was intrigued by the shape of the snub nose tho. Want something to replace my FireWire longboard as had it for years.

i never liked the hypto. Tried it once and just couldn't gel with it. Felt very corky. But I have a Hayden holy grail but in pe not carbon version and absolutely love it for shoulder high and above out front. Epic board.

If you have a chance to feel up a tajen and a hypto in the same length (the 6' plus ones) you'll notice they don't have the same thickness and the tajens are a little wider. I've felt up the Hyptos in my preferred lengths and passed on them due to the feel under the arm.

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Ctngoodvibes said...

It's funny you say that as initially I was after one of their longboards. Was intrigued by the shape of the snub nose tho. Want something to replace my FireWire longboard as had it for years.

i never liked the hypto. Tried it once and just couldn't gel with it. Felt very corky. But I have a Hayden holy grail but in pe not carbon version and absolutely love it for shoulder high and above out front. Epic board.

The Hypto you tried was probably too high volume for you then. They do pack in a lot of volume up front & under the chest. You gotta get the volume right or most boards will feel wrong for you.

I have this Love Buzz copy (centre) pictured with a Psychedelic Germ (Left) & a Hypto (right)
The Love Buzz & Hypto are both about 35L. I love riding the Hypto in up to head high or bigger fat waves & its had heaps of use coz it suits my local. But the Love Buzz isn't suited to my local. Went great in Bali when I had it made, but at home I always end up grabbing another board coz it feels like it has too much volume for me in bigger waves. Its 6'2, should of ordered a 5'10 or 5'11. Been meaning to sell it.

So back to the title SBWH boards.

What's your verdict.

And what is it based on?

Actual hands on?
Actual ride time?
Actually owning one?

Or just purist resentments?

For me the specific board I chose rocks.

But others in the stable might suck?

So if you are commenting state the board, the size, your experiences etc.

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Hydromann said..
So back to the title SBWH boards.

What's your verdict.

And what is it based on?

Actual hands on?
Actual ride time?
Actually owning one?

Or just purist resentments?

For me the specific board I chose rocks.

But others in the stable might suck?

So if you are commenting state the board, the size, your experiences etc.

Not surfboard! a sup purchased in june last year 10 foot mistress she was nearly 800 bucks less than some brands and 1500 less than top brands ! She's used regularly and loved ! strong ! cant fault the design also the service in the gold coast shop was excellent

Saw a carbon wrap railed SBWH short board yesterday. A grom had some 5'8" pulled in nose, flat rockered board with forgiving rails. Look solid as. Didn't ask a price as I figured it was a prezzy. Better than branded boards in the cool shops. But where and by whom were those made anyway?

Be careful buster you may be branded a surfboard wharehouse employee with those words

Support a local shaper not mass produced inferior rubbish

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beagle said..
Support a local shaper not mass produced inferior rubbish

I'm still feeling the burn from the last time i tried that.

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Ctngoodvibes said..
Be careful buster you may be branded a surfboard wharehouse employee with those words

haha nah need at least 5x the repetitive post frequency for a PR rep

Must be the Tajen Busters talking about...I won't say its not good for kids

I ride a SBWH board for around Perth and I personally like it
i have customs as wel, (Ross from souldboard store makes a good board as does shrednaught boards)
they serve a purpose cheap board I can leave in the Ute and not care about sun damage or damage when surfing point packed in summer
not everyone has thousands of spare dollars to spend on boards so I will take a brand new board for $400 any day (it is lasted me two years now so I would say it was worth it)

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beagle said..
Support a local shaper not mass produced inferior rubbish

Absolutely Beagle, once you have your style, wave types, design wants and needs, skill level, consistency all clearly understood and want to progress your surfing specific to your desires. And by the you should have the cash saved to do that.

In the mean time buy whatever seconds you can find or get a pop out that you don't need to worry over every little compression ding or crowded breaks.

So what do you base the inferior rubbish statement on?

Because I've compared shapers boards in the rack and so called mass produced rubbish and there really is not a lot in it.

Even some of the better known shapers are having their designs made offshore.

I'd love a Webber, Miller or Morning of the Earth custom.

But untill I can justify the cost against my skill level I think myself and many like me will skip the Wanker with a label approach and enjoy our cheap crap.

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Jimmytwotouc said..
I ride a SBWH board for around Perth and I personally like it
i have customs as wel, (Ross from souldboard store makes a good board as does shrednaught boards)
they serve a purpose cheap board I can leave in the Ute and not care about sun damage or damage when surfing point packed in summer
not everyone has thousands of spare dollars to spend on boards so I will take a brand new board for $400 any day (it is lasted me two years now so I would say it was worth it)

Preach bro..

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Jimmytwotouc said..
I ride a SBWH board for around Perth and I personally like it
i have customs as wel, (Ross from souldboard store makes a good board as does shrednaught boards)
they serve a purpose cheap board I can leave in the Ute and not care about sun damage or damage when surfing point packed in summer
not everyone has thousands of spare dollars to spend on boards so I will take a brand new board for $400 any day (it is lasted me two years now so I would say it was worth it)

I really don't get where these guys who have never ridden on let alone laid eyes on one think that these boards and anyone who rides them are evil?

To me it creates a groundswell of groms and middle age weekend warriors who will eventually want a design dialled into their specific wants and needs.

I can only see a knock on effect that will benefit custom shapers.

The quality of these and others is more than fit for purpose for the demographic they are targeted at.

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Hydromann said..

I can only see a knock on effect that will benefit custom shapers.

I'm with you everywhere, except for this^^^
Foam wizards will clearly still have their market share, but I suggest SBWH et al is more likely to have a negative impact than positive, hip pocket wise, and that's their primary concern I'd imagine.

.... I dropped into the shop in ossy park a few weeks back to grab some wax and had a look at the boards. To pick them up they are all quite heavy.
The shapes themselves and build quality/refinement seemed fine,... but personally I couldn't get past the weight of the boards. I just didn't get the sense that they would be lively under foot. I would suggest picking one of these things up before making a decision or any assessment. Just my 2 cents.

The 5'10 Tajen I had wasn't heavy, but the board just did not perform well compared to other small wave boards I have or have had.

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MickPC said..
The 5'10 Tajen I had wasn't heavy, but the board just did not perform well compared to other small wave boards I have or have had.

Maybe wrong volume then?

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Buster fin said..

Hydromann said..

I can only see a knock on effect that will benefit custom shapers.

I'm with you everywhere, except for this^^^
Foam wizards will clearly still have their market share, but I suggest SBWH et al is more likely to have a negative impact than positive, hip pocket wise, and that's their primary concern I'd imagine.

Not sure what you mean?

Whatever warehouse brand you insert here has only had a positive effect on my hip pocket.

Yes maybe a negative effect on local made generic designs but most discussion has been about custom shaped boards specific to a person's needs.

A lot of generic designs that are made are offshore factory, or on shore machine that is then hand finished.

Both of which have significantly lower manufacture costs than a custom due to economy of scale in manufacture or efficiency gains through lower labour, or machining.

These so called shapers boards are just as economically cost effective to land as warehouse boards, the difference then becomes the distribution network.

A shaper is the wholesaler, they sell to a distributor network, and they sell to a retail network. Or similar model.

End result is that when you walk into the fancy hipster surf shop and buy that designer shape that says McT or FitzG on it it has had each person in the food chain put their markup on it. And so you don't feel ripped off design snobbery branding kicks in and tells you that you are in elite company.

Meanwhile SBWH or any other similar distribution model have cut out all the middle men holding their hands out for a cut. Hence their significantly lower price.

But if we are custom shapers, people who make a series of designs and then apply their specific insight and creativity to make not just a shape to suit you but quite often a work of art. Then I can only see the future for them improving financially as warehouse learners or kooks like me fine tune what it is that we exactly want.

Because once we know that then the only way to achieve that outcome is in a true custom design. And my hat is off to those guys and gals that do this. I think they truely deserve recognition over the myriad of blood sucking leaches that whine about the effect of warehouse distribution because of the reality of how that distribution model affects their hip pockets.

So their best form of defender is to relentlessly malign and slander a product that they have had mix, nada, zip exposure to. Or to rip into anyone who dares to defend their purchase choice.

Sorry, to ant over. No malice against you intended.

And for all the naysayers, I DO NOT WORK FOR SBWH.

I simply bought one of their boards and am more than pleased with it.

Me and her had a getting to know each other phase as you do with anything you ride. But now we are aquainted it's a beautiful thing.

Nuff said.

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Ctngoodvibes said..

MickPC said..
The 5'10 Tajen I had wasn't heavy, but the board just did not perform well compared to other small wave boards I have or have had.

Maybe wrong volume then?

Lol nah heaps of float and was fine down the line but the chunky rails sucked. I was very surprised when I got the board how thick they were considering the length. Results in a very poor response when getting on rail.

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Hydromann said..

Buster fin said..

Hydromann said..

I can only see a knock on effect that will benefit custom shapers.

I'm with you everywhere, except for this^^^
Foam wizards will clearly still have their market share, but I suggest SBWH et al is more likely to have a negative impact than positive, hip pocket wise, and that's their primary concern I'd imagine.

Not sure what you mean?

Whatever warehouse brand you insert here has only had a positive effect on my hip pocket.

Yes maybe a negative effect on local made generic designs but most discussion has been about custom shaped boards specific to a person's needs.

A lot of generic designs that are made are offshore factory, or on shore machine that is then hand finished.

Both of which have significantly lower manufacture costs than a custom due to economy of scale in manufacture or efficiency gains through lower labour, or machining.

These so called shapers boards are just as economically cost effective to land as warehouse boards, the difference then becomes the distribution network.

A shaper is the wholesaler, they sell to a distributor network, and they sell to a retail network. Or similar model.

End result is that when you walk into the fancy hipster surf shop and buy that designer shape that says McT or FitzG on it it has had each person in the food chain put their markup on it. And so you don't feel ripped off design snobbery branding kicks in and tells you that you are in elite company.

Meanwhile SBWH or any other similar distribution model have cut out all the middle men holding their hands out for a cut. Hence their significantly lower price.

But if we are custom shapers, people who make a series of designs and then apply their specific insight and creativity to make not just a shape to suit you but quite often a work of art. Then I can only see the future for them improving financially as warehouse learners or kooks like me fine tune what it is that we exactly want.

Because once we know that then the only way to achieve that outcome is in a true custom design. And my hat is off to those guys and gals that do this. I think they truely deserve recognition over the myriad of blood sucking leaches that whine about the effect of warehouse distribution because of the reality of how that distribution model affects their hip pockets.

So their best form of defender is to relentlessly malign and slander a product that they have had mix, nada, zip exposure to. Or to rip into anyone who dares to defend their purchase choice.

Sorry, to ant over. No malice against you intended.

And for all the naysayers, I DO NOT WORK FOR SBWH.

I simply bought one of their boards and am more than pleased with it.

Me and her had a getting to know each other phase as you do with anything you ride. But now we are aquainted it's a beautiful thing.

Nuff said.

McTAVISH manufacturer out of their own factory which has a shop front also, they sell to a selected surf stores globally who pay wholesale prices, end result is the same recommend retail price globally. If you want to comment on brands know you're facts before giving a misleading information. You call them fancy which again is misleading. The brand has been around since 1962 and continues to survive against cheap slave labour sweat shops were non of the hands making these boards have surfed. You need to show some respect if you what to be respected. Pimp SBW all you like, most long term surfers have soul and do not agree with selling out the surf industry hence the negative replies you have received in this and you're other thread in the longboard forum. $399 boards and cheap without question however I laugh when I see a $200 set of fins being fitted by some guys. I find you're posts or call them rants entertaining I have no beef with you but please state facts, I've owned one pop out and it was absolute rubbish, it wasn't from SBW . The board felt dead and lacked in every other department. If you're on a budget and SBW boards give you joy go for it but as I mentioned above don't come in here bagging quality made boards.

Oh the smell of resin, here is my friend Victor the best laminator in Bali making handcrafted surfboards in the temple of enthusiasm Canggu.

Mctavish are the best ya can get in my opinion. Flawless finish. Love the look of the 70s style blue bird model.

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MickPC said..

Ctngoodvibes said..

MickPC said..
The 5'10 Tajen I had wasn't heavy, but the board just did not perform well compared to other small wave boards I have or have had.

Maybe wrong volume then?

Lol nah heaps of float and was fine down the line but the chunky rails sucked. I was very surprised when I got the board how thick they were considering the length. Results in a very poor response when getting on rail.

Pretty much like a hypto then ! Ha ha
i thought the rails were super chunky on the hypto. But maybe in hindsight it may have been better if I tried it in the pe construction not the carbon construction as would have taken some of the cork feeling out of it.
ive seen so many guys that are actually decent surfers on hyptos that don't seem to suit em at all , all of em getting stuck in the lip . But no criticism of Hayden, love the holy grail that I have from him and watching and Craig Anderson on a hypto is sublime

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Ctngoodvibes said..
Mctavish are the best ya can get in my opinion. Flawless finish. Love the look of the 70s style blue bird model.

Just on the bluebird I mite buy one for a wall collector

now it's all shaping by machine. do any shapers apart from small backyarders fully shape and glass by hand anymore? my last 3 boards were customs, but were machine shaped and finished by a shaper with 40 years experience. that was 5 years ago.

i can make a board myself so my next one will probably be hand made. wont be high quality but good enough. i'm over 60 so it's not so important to me.

but it's true some soul is being lost. remember when you had a board hand shaped by a hot surfer? back in the day most of the top guys shaped and surfed. then there is always the most important; how does it feel under your arm?

just sayin

Dude re read my comments. Not bagging quality boards or shapers, in fact I am hoping for and wishing them more success off the ground swell of new surfers who will eventually want a custom. Not a branded pop out, and be honest, even MT have a range of their own Aussie pop outs.

You want to bash off shore made and defend Aussie made, good. But make sure you read the labels, head out the back and look at the packing boxes all the merch came in and where it was made. Go look at the drums of resin and rolls of cloth and trace back to the actual supply source. Check out the slick marketing to the hipster crowds with wording like upcycled, repurposed, and sustainably sourced. Then trace back to the actual source and certify what is claimed. FYI it's called greenwashing.

You want to spruke the virtues of Aussie made then get your facts right. The only value add in the supply chain is that it was shaped in an Aussie or Bali sweat shop instead of an offshore one.

As for soul shapers making customs, my hats off to them for their tenacity and survival.

And if most long term surfers have soul and do not agree with selling out the industry... Sorry mate but that horse has bolted.

Send your out soul outback again and you will see the labels with made in China on them everywhere.

They have to use these elements or supply chains to remain competitive and derive a profit.

Seriously are you that naive?

I love your passion, I love that you defend Aussie made, I love that but take off the rose coloured glasses brother and see it for what it is. Slick value added marketing with a hipster, environmentally greenwashed flavour, all driven by the need for a return on investment.

My hats off to the custom shapers who etch out an existence amongst all of the slick marketing and branding. Those guys get my respect and eventually when I can afford one of their customs my business. It certainly won't be going to an over priced, branded product that is supposedly worth three times as much using the same materials. All because it was shaped in Oz?

I would seriously love to get my hands on a MT 6'10" Sumo and compare the ride to what I spent a third of the money on. But I can not justify the $1500 dollars vs. $450 spend for something that might give me a 5% performance benefit. So I will soul surf the crap piece of sweatshop rubbish I could afford untill I can afford to pay a real shaper to make a real board for me out of environmentally certified and sourced materials.

To me and a thousand others who do not have the luxury of loose coin to afford the "Aussie" made customs that you can, all for a perceived performance advantage. For us poorer cousins suppliers like SBWH, ECS and others are our solution.

Long winded rant over, might start a thread challenging the soul surfing purists to certify the origins of not just the shaper input but the materials used. Let's cut to the chase and see how much of their product is truely Aussie made?

And let's be clear here about facts. I have never slagged out shapers who apply their skills and can use them to etch out an existence. In fact I have clearly stated that I hope they benefit from the groundswell of new surfers that lower priced entry into the sport generates.

Nothing against MT or any other brand, I'm just not that gullible idiot that bows down to the so called shaper gods that are simply slick marketing of brand recognition.

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skeghedd said..
now it's all shaping by machine. do any shapers apart from small backyarders fully shape and glass by hand anymore? my last 3 boards were customs, but were machine shaped and finished by a shaper with 40 years experience. that was 5 years ago.

i can make a board myself so my next one will probably be hand made. wont be high quality but good enough. i'm over 60 so it's not so important to me.

but it's true some soul is being lost. remember when you had a board hand shaped by a hot surfer? back in the day most of the top guys shaped and surfed. then there is always the most important; how does it feel under your arm?

just sayin

Exactly dude.

Back then it had real soul worked in by experienced hands and made from real Aussies supply.

Some dreamers trying to keep that image alive for the slick marketing of a feeling and nostalgia.

Machine made, hand finished sanding to templates of profiles, popped out with brand name marketing, produced from materials that are all sourced in China. Three times the price for 1.05 times the performance advantage.

And I'm the idiot for riding a cheap pop out?