SP said..






Not calling BS but Can you find another Link,

As i said one of those is half hour from home and have never heard this story and cannot find anything in the local news or anywhere else online for that matter.

I am reluctant to rely on that story you put up from a Perth paper that is very scant on details.

Also Shoal bay, is not an ocean / surfing beach it is inside a harbor, so doubt it was a shark net? Maybe a net enclosing a swimming area. It is also not on the list of beaches netted by the DPI meshing program.

Not trying to be an arse just think it all seems a bit odd and something i probably would have heard about, i even asked a few people that live up that way and they didn't have anything either.. So not going to rely on one article in a Murdoch paper on the other side of the country of certain proof.




The 15-year-old is believed to have become caught in a shark net at Shoal Bay, near Port Stephens.

Witnesses said he was trapped underwater for 10 minutes before being freed by rescuers with a knife.

But he did not survive.

Police said the teen had been spear fishing with two other males before he drowned.

They did not release any information about the cause of his death.

chrispy said...
^^^^^ stop using the saving lives crap.as in ban swimming pools....hey ban boats as well because the people that sell them are assisting murderers and people who engage in environmental terrorism every day......then the ^road toll blah blah blah...it's two different worlds jb.

One is a world where people are making disastous choices,whether it be driving while drunk^speeding or having too many wines while mum takes her eyes of Johnny who drowns all along with what is not neglect or poor choices,but which is in fact a accident

Then the shark world.we have to protect something that kills us...dingoes are protected but we will knock a few off if one nips a kid^not kills but has a nip....then crocs...leave them alone^but as soon as someone is attacked,once again it's by bye bye to who chomped a human...

See the difference in the two worlds? That's why you cannot compare them.
And jb as much as you like to debunk people on what is not science,well you do a great job of finding information that suits you. You make more assumptions on people's thinking,behaviour and also of those which are not human....so you should stop pointing fingers at others

IFocus said..

Has the bigger salmon season brought them in? (recon thats a given for some)

Increase in whales migration numbers?

Unfortunately the tagging numbers don't seem to reflect the above that well.

Being a tree hugger (hug a great white today and feel better) and always right I am reluctant to get on the cull/net/drum line band wagon but do understand the frustration in our area.

Sorry for the ramble in a hurry.

jbshack said..













All hypothetical arguments..

Your saying more sharks in the water so more interactions..Well the exact same argument could be made of more people in the water more interactions..I can see your getting frustrated, not sure why, i don't expect everyone to believe in the science, hell people still refuse to vacate their children. In this day and age we need to think smarter than hypothetical..

As for counting sharks, yep its difficult, but with DNA sampling they have a reasonable understanding. Yes numbers are slowly returning but it not not attack of the killer tomatoes out their as people would have us believe.

I saw a report today about a women demanding Magpies getting culled. Her kid got pecked. So now the council is looking at putting up a cage at the park..Really when will people take responsibly for their own safety..? And before you say its about saving lives thats bull s-t. If people were so concerned they'd be trying to have back yard swimming pools outlawed..That would save around 200 times more lives a year than shark attacks..

SP said..
Yes Children dying is horrible

However as a shark net being the cause of death i'm leaning towards it is bull****... Not saying this didn't happen but a story like a kid drowning in a shark net u would expect a reasonable level of media coverage.

We have 2 local papers and a dedicated tv network that it appears didn't report it? Yet a Perth paper got the story right, but ony reported a few lines, no follow up story etc etc... It just looks odd.

And the original text came from AAP so if it was a story you'd think they would continue to cover it.

To me a reliable story is one that can be corroborated. There is no corroboration of this event or even stating it happened anywhere besides the Perth paper. I have even searched Uni databases of old stories and newspapers, nothing besides that one article.

Not to mention it isn't a netted beach etc etc...

The link above is from 1992, neither of the ones you posted are in 1992?? So what is that link. Another one??

As i said not being an arsehole, you made me feel bad so i looked further and sorry but the more i look the more the story falls apart.


And finally not sure what the drowning thing has to do with anything But if you didn't read it in the news then where did you read about the other deaths at this beach? I know they get reported in the local papers.

MickPC said..












Yes mate, what I have attempted to do is provide logical step by step hypothetical considerations in regard to shark numbers.

The scientists you often refer to do not & have not ever known how many great white sharks there are...they made assumptions based on a lack of observations. You are highly unlkey to ever be provided with legit scientific data stating the number of great white sharks, its not going to happen in our lifetime. All we can do is react to logical assumptions based on observation & frequency of events indicating that there has been a resurgence in the numbers of great white sharks. I believe, this we have seen.

Have you seen evidence of frustration from me, absolutely...but not directed or towards you. People like you allow these discussions to take place & I thank you for that. I will take any oppportunity to voice my opinons on the subject.

In regard to more people in the water garnering more shark activity due to numbers in the water vs greater shark numbers I call BS. You only need one person to spot a shark in a location, no more & trust me. New surf spots are not being discovered in WA lol, there are no secret spots (apart from offshore tow ins). And lesser surfed spots are not getting greater conditions to allow people to surf them. Besides all the places surfers have been attacked here & NSW have been well known spots, even the one up near Wedge we used to surf that stretch of coast regularly in the 80's. Same with SA.

In regard to saving lives & trying to make comparisons with incidents other than people being attacked by sharks due to a greater number of sharks due to one species being protected over others. Its simply irrelevant mate. We're discussing living with the current number of great white sharks & what cause of action to reduce the risk. Other than quitting surfing, coz that is not an option for most of us.

SP said...
If we don't understand it how can you recite anything as fact?? And tell Mick he is wrong??

You seem to tell everyone that disagree with you or challenges you that they are wrong and don't understand and then at another time say no one understands.

In the end You are expressing an opinon, all of us are. Unless you are trained, educated and experienced you are purely speculating based on your experience, bias's and beliefs..
It's not like a maths problem with an answer.

Different opinions and ideas are how humans got out of a cave, lit a fire and progressed. Two people can look at the same problem and see different solutions.

It doesn't make the other wrong that's just how humans work..

Love your passion JB but lecturing others for having a different opinion based on essentially the same information is not cool.

Anyway this is reminding me why i stopped posting in shark threads. Have fun.

SP said..
Here's proof of the above

opinion is different to Maths..

Maths has an answer...


"WA receivers have detected 64 individual acoustically-tagged white sharks, a total of 22,291 times since 2009" 16,523 of those were in the metro area.

So in the metro area, in 17 years their has been 972 times a year a rece

2016-2009= 7 not 17..

Just ****ing with JB sure t was typo..

SP said..
If we don't understand it how can you recite anything as fact?? And tell Mick he is wrong??

You seem to tell everyone that disagree with you or challenges you that they are wrong and don't understand and then at another time say no one understands.

In the end You are expressing an opinon, all of us are. Unless you are trained, educated and experienced you are purely speculating based on your experience, bias's and beliefs..
It's not like a maths problem with an answer.

Different opinions and ideas are how humans got out of a cave, lit a fire and progressed. Two people can look at the same problem and see different solutions.

It doesn't make the other wrong that's just how humans work..

Love your passion JB but lecturing others for having a different opinion based on essentially the same information is not cool.

Anyway this is reminding me why i stopped posting in shark threads. Have fun.

jbshack said...


Actually id love to say it was a typo but thats what you get for working too fast. The point is my mistake even shows the situation a little clearer. So only 64 sharks over a 7 year period thats 2360 times a year those 64 sharks set of the metro area receivers.. So what % of the sharks do you think have tagged, If they have tagged only 1% of the population, (Thats 6400 sharks in total in the West coast region) That would mean a great white would be detected 230,400 times a year of our metro beaches swimming past the receivers. Thats 631 times a day a receiver would have a great white swim past them, remembering those receivers are all less then few KMS of shore, thats a lot of sharks swimming around..So you could guess from that either theres lots of sharks that no one sees, OR that their is at least less than 6400 sharks in total in the west coast.. Actually the estimate from fisheries has always been around 3500 to 5000 mature aged great whites..

Im sure I've made more mistakes in their also, but I'm sure they'll be pulled up. Either way, it doesn't paint a picture of shark populations going crazy, and its its correct than their obviously are a lot of sharks swimming around near beach users that very rarely bother people

chrispy said..








Wow if you can't dazzle the crowd with brilliance....then dazzle them with bull****

So my thinking comes from this...

Scientists have been studying sharks for how long (don't froth yet jb)for one particular study...vs a fishing family from anywhere in the world.

What I believe is coming from the mouth of a greeny who happens to be part of a 3 generation ifishing family from Lennox head. This conversation is from two years ago and even more so today I believe they are right and all this other hypothetical assumptions from all the experts is wrong.

I am believing 70 years of experience from a fishing family vs scientists that have studied for how long? Don't start me on scientists having unbiased or pure hearts for what they do either.

A long story short from the fisherman...

Shark goes near boat...Shark is shot and sharks learned to stay away...

Shark is protected and sharks start hanging inshore and munching people.

Shark numbers are through the roof since they were protected and are now not afraid of the fishing boats.

This is from 70 years worth of scientific research jb. ( they might not be scholar ed scientists,BUT as doctor Karl says it is people like those fisherman who should be heard as time spent watching and doing something over and over again is enough for a scientific experiment...true jb.(no you can't be one because you say the same thing over and over without any experience)


But jb you will be happy now. They did say shark nets should go

The explanation to me was "if you had a unit block filled with heaps of people and their happened to be one killer living in there. Nobody knows which onethey live in so they kill everything to get the one bad guy. That was their idea on how nets work. ( I disagree)....

But now you will not like them. They are saying all these helicopters flying about should be able to shoot them ... don't tag the ones in close)shoot them . They should be tagging sharks that are way out to sea and then see where they go....but if they come close gooooone. Also fisherman should be able to pop them again....

So I am going for 70 years worth of scientific research over a few peeps in white jackets filling their bellies full of money... don't argue they do not get enough either ...as the above will explain most of it for you....

So no assumptions,nor hypotheticals,nor what my neighbor thinks....

Just 70 YEARS OF OCEAN KNOWLEDGE

chrispy said..
Where is that Nick Carroll piece you keep avoiding.....

jbshack said..
Just a few easy references to support my above statements..

www.iflscience.com:443/plants-and-animals/i-spent-the-past-seven-years-counting-white-sharks-the-findings-are-troubling/
A bit more info on seth above study.
www.sharkwatchsa.com/projects/great-white-shark-population/

www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2011/02/18/3142851.htm
As to the question of whether or not the protected Great White shark species should go through a culling, Ms Miller says the industry doesn't support it.

au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/32911945/great-white-cull-a-waste-of-time-says-abalone-diver/#page1

IFocus said...





I'll handle this JB

Nick make the inference that the offshore shark fishing / by catch is a huge number of tonnes so bumping off a few more or the remainder inshore will make no difference to the environment.

I wonder if he understood the irony of what he said......

One thing that did surprise me was the low numbers of bycatch from mesh nets just didn't add up to me.

To be fair to Nick he did say the reporting of by catch from other fishing maybe iffy

chrispy said..




The eager appreciate dapper always at the ready...are you going to delete this post..... give him a good pat on the belly jb

For face book users today a really great video was shared by Terra Australis. I cant seem to share it another way then by FB though. If anyone can post directly would be cool..

www.facebook.com/289699477794946/videos/1083667501731469/

Shark Attack First Aid. PLEASE SHARE AND TAG ANYBODY THAT GOES IN THE OCEANTerra Australis brings you this public service announcement Shark Attack First Aid video, demonstrating the best first aid practices if you are faced with a shark attack situation. There has undoubtably been an increase in attacks and encounters over the last few years. The team at Terra Australis wants to offer ocean enthusiasts worldwide the opportunity to learn some tips and techniques that could assist them in saving a life if they are faced with this first aid situation.
<div class="text_exposed_show">The theory and information in this video has been endorsed by paramedics that have attended shark attack incidents in Western Australia and we have tried to re-enact this first aid situation to best give viewers a visual representation on how to respond. We are not trying to replace a first aid course, but simply build on your knowledge and provide an insight into what can be done in that situation. Anybody that is faced with an incident such as a shark attack will react in different ways. There is no right or wrong, everybody always does their very best given their circumstance. We were in a controlled environment without the panic of somebody being seriously injured, in addition to a shark being in the vicinity. Some things we learnt from the experience is that it is very difficult to rescue somebody by yourself. Tying a tourniquet, maintaining pressure, getting them on the board and back into safety while battling white water, shallow reef and a victim is truly testing - but humans are capable of amazing things.We encourage you to be conscious of your surroundings, do your research into when shark populations are at their highest in your area and be prepared with first aid equipment in your boat, board bag, or car.What's in a Shark Attack First Aid Kit?
It is our recommendation to keep the bag as simple as possible: Kit should include
Tourniquet
Pressure bandage (large)
Large combine/ absorbent pad
Thermal blanket
* House all items in a dry bag.Items can be easily purchased individually to make up a kit. If you would like Terra Australis to put together a Shark Attack First Aid Kit for you, please private message us via our Terra Australis Facebook page.Thank you to all of the professionals and volunteers who helped create this video.Produced / Directed / Edited by Ryan Chatfield for Terra Australis
http://ryanchatfieldimages.comParamedic - Stewart Masson: SDS
www.sdsaus.com.auCamera: Johnny Debnam
Camera: Mitchell Yeats
In-water camera: Andre Rerekura
Drone: Ryan Chatfield Images
Surfer: Evan Rogers
Terra Australis Team: Johnny Debnam Andre Rerekura Ryan Chatfield

MickPC said..
I'm a bit short on time today, so I will try & address points made some time over the weekend.

I'll just let you ponder this;

A logical assumption is an assumption that follows sound logic and supporting evidence. It also acknowledges that variables which may make the assumption false do not exist.

This is what scientists used to protect great whites.

JB you said, "i haven't made the simple assumption that they are in over populated numbers and when i research i find that everyone who is anyone really says numbers can not have breed up to be a problem, not even close, many still believe that numbers are still critically low to sustain a healthy breeding diversity".

I will let you think about that statement in that you mention your research & current numbers not yet coming close to being a problem...I guess I can make the simple assumption your "research" is regurgitating information obtained from people of like mind. That's cool, I prefer to do some thinking for myself based on what I have seen, read & heard from a variety of sources...but what concerns me is you say you feel numbers have not yet reached a level of concern.

Why are we seeing more great whites attacking boats & hanging closer to shore? Firstly coz there are more of them, even you yourself admit this & so do the almighty scientists who need to conduct more research coz after all this time they still know so little about great whites. And I don't disagree more research needs to be done. However this does not mean we can not have a system in place to act more swiftly in the event of attack without red tape hampering operations.

There was a global protection of great whites. Shark tourism needs to be shut down globally as this is associating humans with food. People need to stop throwing stuff off boats, however this is incredibly hard to stop. And what about people researching sharks? They're chumming up the water to attract sharks in order to tag sharks or test stuff. Very difficult situation there isn't it. Surfboard floating in the water with electronic devices being tested to see if they fark the sharks off. I'm very reluctant to even bring it up as I see it as far more beneficial than any other study I've heard about...

I've always said I don't support a cull. I just want great white sharks taken off the protected list in order to enable quicker reaction of response & prevention of attacks. As I feel numbers are way past being a problem, that for me is supported by factual statistics of recent scientific data.

jbshack said..
For face book users today a really great video was shared by Terra Australis. I cant seem to share it another way then by FB though. If anyone can post directly would be cool..

www.facebook.com/289699477794946/videos/1083667501731469/