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DARTH said..

Also before these attacks really started we all knew the risk and we still surfed. So we still live with the risk as before.

True as a surfer we all take that risk in entering the ocean,its just that the risk in this area has taken a whole new meaning.
We are seeing heaps of locals from this area driving up for a surf in SEQ.
Sure as hell I won't be surfing there anytime soon would you?

Darth, i strongly disagree, pre 2000 when there was no cage diving and people ate shark and fisherman caught them it was a happy happy time, lets go back to that era

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DARTH said..
Also before these attacks really started we all knew the risk and we still surfed. So we still live with the risk as before.

Not at all. Before Ken Crew there was no thought of sharks at all. A little bit if you surfed round the Augusta corner or at deep water reefs alone at dusk. But not in broad daylight over sand in clear water, nor at super popular breaks with your crew. After Ken that was kind of a shock but still no worries. And then in the last 10 years it's got progressively worse to the point I don't feel safe at a couple of spots, within arms reach of scrambling out of the water. I **** myself at Perth's most popular beach when a patch of weed drifts along the bottom too fast nearby. And every day at certain times of the year receivers are pinging and sightings are being reported. Wasn't like that when I was a kid. Sharks weren't even discussed, they just weren't an issue.

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Legion said..

DARTH said..
Also before these attacks really started we all knew the risk and we still surfed. So we still live with the risk as before.

Not at all. Before Ken Crew there was no thought of sharks at all. A little bit if you surfed round the Augusta corner or at deep water reefs alone at dusk. But not in broad daylight over sand in clear water, nor at super popular breaks with your crew. After Ken that was kind of a shock but still no worries. And then in the last 10 years it's got progressively worse to the point I don't feel safe at a couple of spots, within arms reach of scrambling out of the water. I **** myself at Perth's most popular beach when a patch of weed drifts along the bottom too fast nearby. And every day at certain times of the year receivers are pinging and sightings are being reported. Wasn't like that when I was a kid. Sharks weren't even discussed, they just weren't an issue.

Really? Maybe another past time for you then maybe go karts, you and the razz can form a team haha.

But really drum lines will kill non targeted sharks, end of story. We have already seen it.

Also we will never get back to the 80s & 90s because so many sharks were slaughtered by whalers up until the late 70s
Whalers used to shoot and flence them as they ate the dead whales as they were towed to Albany and on the ramps. So from the late 70s it took a while for the population to get up to where it is now. Females cant reproduce until after 30 years old so it makes sense and the maths backs this up.

At the end of the day you can cull, drum line etc but there will still be attacks they will not stop.

As I keep saying protect your self, as the above will not protect you.

I surfed Ellenbrook with just one or two other friends a lot in the early to mid 90's & can't recall ever being spooked by sharks. Bailed the SW for a trip to the great ocean road (Vic) for a couple of years from '96 & stopped at Cactus for a couple of months. This is the only time I can recall being conscious of sharks before things got ridiculous (last what? 6 years I guess). Mainly coz it was always SA that was considered sharky. But they have never experienced what we have here in the West & Ballina.

The last few years I've surfed my local, not only have I been highly conscious of sharks. I've had to leave the water coz we've seen them. 5 times last year & 4 times this year I've had to get out coz we've literally seen a shark. Previously to the last few years, like say the 80's & 90's up until about 2005 I got out of the water a few times coz someone thought they saw a shark. Its just BS now & way past time reconsidering GW protection due to highly questionable endangerment of the species.

I had to get out of the surf yesterday when bloody good waves were rolling through. I was surfing with one other guy who went in after getting freaked by the local azzhole seal popping up right next to us like it always does. Then I felt uncomfortable surfing out there on my own & bailed.

Thing is people talk about stats, chance of becoming the victim of a shark attack being low. When your often surfing alone or with just a few other people along your stretch of coast you can't help feel like your chances are a lot higher than people who only get out once or twice a weekend.

I believe anyone considered to be a "shark expert" (even though they say we know so little about sharks, kinda contradictory aint it)....will ever recommend anything other than more research. Its to their benefit, however to the detriment of others .

Fishermen's observations or lack of in regard to GW's was good enough to protect GW's in the past. Fishermen's observations should now in turn be good enough to remove GW protection & replace it with regulatory laws to inhibit mass culling of the species. And or programs put in place to remove or relocate sharks seen to be frequenting beaches used for recreational activities of all kinds.

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Razzonater said..
All of this tooing and frooing zigging and zagging.....
Set some drum lines knock a few on the head...

When we go 6 months wothout an attack reduce the drum line numbers toproblem spots....

Attacks ramp up a few yeard later set some.more drum lines....

Thats all

The point is Razz all this tooing and frowing (political football) is because they don't know what to do, they are looking for alternatives that may work..The FACT is that Great White numbers are still incredibly low, especially if you compare the total number to the amount of water users they would encounter..So the truth is they simply cant just remove their protected status..If they were in plague numbers, they could and would. Sharks have been culled for years in NSW and QLD and still attacks are increasing. Cull more you say, well maybe the government is trying to think a little smarter. Have you ever heard the saying, "Only a dumb man will keep repeating his actions and expect a different outcome"

The truth is shark scientists in Aus are very poorly funded. In fact most of CSIRO's funding for their research is privately fund raised so the truth is the people who are looking for the answers, are not rolling around in cash like is being suggested.

The number one shark scientist in Australia, i've not heard a peep out of for nearly two years. Why i wonder..I guess he figures no one will listen anyway, so why bother..

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chrispy said..

jbshack said...

oz surf said..

jbshack said..

I cant think of any commercial fishing operation in Aus that would target great whites Can you..

Could be a good business for tourism, fishing for Great Whites.

Like shooting Rhinos or Lions in the Savannah..I don't think that form of tourism is very popular anymore..

Not that i agree with it...but shooting animals like lions and such is legal and is a massive profit spinner for many African countries. Geez many australians sporting players have been a part of it but you knew That...winking emoticon inserted.

They had legal bullshark fishing on the goldcoast . The people had pontoons with monster chairs to fish from ..

But once again we will kill a dingo if it nips someone...and most dingoes only started coming towards camps because peeps where feeding them..oh is there any light bulbs going off now? No...

That is a urban myth, perpetuated by the Hunting organisation and American shooting association..Sorry.. Trophy hunting accounts for only a small % of their income.. Sadly though these days many of the hunts have gone underground as they have been banned. Even Private game reserves operating in the region are struggling, unless they will help supply animals from government reserves IE poaching.. Its very much being driven out of Africa.

These days the attitude is witching to "Real Men Shoot With a Camera"

Once again i have posted in a shark thread against my better judgement.

I banning myself......

Set some drum lines I tire of this.........

I know what i know and have seen what ive seen.....

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Razzonater said..
Once again i have posted in a shark thread against my better judgement.

I banning myself......

Set some drum lines I tire of this.........

I know what i know and have seen what ive seen.....

So you are saying you have more knowledge on Great White sharks then MOST of the worlds leading marine biologists

Your opinion fair call..Ill stick with the science until it can be proven any better thanks

Get rid of them! The can be endangered in someone else's back yard!

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jbshack said..

Razzonater said..
Once again i have posted in a shark thread against my better judgement.

I banning myself......

Set some drum lines I tire of this.........

I know what i know and have seen what ive seen.....

So you are saying you have more knowledge on Great White sharks then MOST of the worlds leading marine biologists

Your opinion fair call..Ill stick with the science until it can be proven any better thanks

A huge increase of shark attacks & shark fatalities is proof enough mate.

I also honestly believe people like Razzonater's thoughts, knowledge, personal experience & historical unreported data not considered by those only considering so called factual data to be very important & not to be dismissed as simply fishermen's stories. Local information from working within & speaking to local's with a lifetime of experience should be taken in far more serious consideration.

At the end of the day..."A huge increase of shark attacks & shark fatalities is proof enough mate".

Fishermen's information was a major contributor to GW's being protected, it should be held in just as high respect now as it was then.

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MickPC said..

jbshack said..

Razzonater said..
Once again i have posted in a shark thread against my better judgement.

I banning myself......

Set some drum lines I tire of this.........

I know what i know and have seen what ive seen.....

So you are saying you have more knowledge on Great White sharks then MOST of the worlds leading marine biologists

Your opinion fair call..Ill stick with the science until it can be proven any better thanks

A huge increase of shark attacks & shark fatalities is proof enough mate.

I also honestly believe people like Razzonater's thoughts, knowledge, personal experience & historical unreported data not considered by those only considering so called factual data to be very important & not to be dismissed as simply fishermen's stories. Local information from working within & speaking to local's with a lifetime of experience should be taken in far more serious consideration.

At the end of the day..."A huge increase of shark attacks & shark fatalities is proof enough mate".

Fishermen's information was a major contributor to GW's being protected, it should be held in just as high respect now as it was then.

Well i guess that the difference between you and me..Ill take the science instead of social media..

No problem with that, people will believe what ever they want i guess..

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jbshack said..

MickPC said..

jbshack said..

Razzonater said..
Once again i have posted in a shark thread against my better judgement.

I banning myself......

Set some drum lines I tire of this.........

I know what i know and have seen what ive seen.....

So you are saying you have more knowledge on Great White sharks then MOST of the worlds leading marine biologists

Your opinion fair call..Ill stick with the science until it can be proven any better thanks

A huge increase of shark attacks & shark fatalities is proof enough mate.

I also honestly believe people like Razzonater's thoughts, knowledge, personal experience & historical unreported data not considered by those only considering so called factual data to be very important & not to be dismissed as simply fishermen's stories. Local information from working within & speaking to local's with a lifetime of experience should be taken in far more serious consideration.

At the end of the day..."A huge increase of shark attacks & shark fatalities is proof enough mate".

Fishermen's information was a major contributor to GW's being protected, it should be held in just as high respect now as it was then.

Well i guess that the difference between you and me..Ill take the science instead of social media..

No problem with that, people will believe what ever they want i guess..

JB...mate, yes we have always had our different beliefs on the shark issue & although we debate this through social media & obtain some information through social media as you often like to share with us. Like those from the pro shark brigade always trying to deflect attention away from the overriding issue of the increasing frequency of attacks & fatalities with BS statistics & mireputation ie yeah Vic's not for shark nets coz they are not the best way of controlling sharks. He certainly has not changed his stance on the topic. But many many people have changed their mind on where they stand & I can tell you now. Your far more likely to change yours to their's than I am from mine.

The shark attacks & fatalities have been caused by sharks, not social media. And the frequency of attacks has increased, that is a fact. Doesn't take a rocket scientist or a marine biologist with some claim to knowledge of sharks for that matter to work that one out mate.

Im interested in an answer to this.
If the experts dont know for sure how many GWs there are how can they know how many GWs there aren't?

JB I think your 'science' is social media! Where is this scientific data? I don't mean a report, I mean where is the raw project right up? Not some edited for public consumption report!!!

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mocha1 said..
Im interested in an answer to this.
If the experts dont know for sure how many GWs there are how can they know how many GWs there aren't?

But thats the issue, they have done studies on numbers and the numbers are still low. They cant say their is exactly this many, but genetic testing is still better than a few guess's on the net. There is some suggestion of stocks slowly building, but their is still talk of genetic numbers being too low to sustain going forward too far into the future..Its not a Great White apocalypse that social media will have us believe, but yes attacks are still increasing I've ever denied that, but what i have said from day one, we need REAL answers not political silly knee jerk actions, we need protection..

It doesn't take millions of sharks, it only takes one..How will you ever know which one it is you need to stop..Kill tens, hundreds even thousands, it still only takes one..

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Andy T said..
JB I think your 'science' is social media! Where is this scientific data? I don't mean a report, I mean where is the raw project right up? Not some edited for public consumption report!!!

Here is as good a place to start as any

www.csiro.au/en/Research/Environment/Oceans-and-coasts/Sharks/White-shark-research-findings

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/05/070523072254.htm

hmm , genetically identical offspring . that would throw a spanner in the genetic population studies

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bjshack said..

Andy T said..
JB I think your 'science' is social media! Where is this scientific data? I don't mean a report, I mean where is the raw project right up? Not some edited for public consumption report!!!

Here is as good a place to start as any

www.csiro.au/en/Research/Environment/Oceans-and-coasts/Sharks/White-shark-research-findings

That's exactly not what Andy asked for. That's marketing fluff.

I actually would have been surprised if you had produced legitimate research material.

So the researchers are critically underfunded to the point where they're struggling to garner sufficient information to offer an opinion as to a reasonable guesstimate on the actual population size of White Sharks? That would tell me that they need more funding to continue their work and they need to spend more time on the water.

Is that about the sum of it JB? We need more research?

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bjshack said..
But thats the issue, they have done studies on numbers and the numbers are still low.

Hmm, I read Scientific Research that begs to differ:

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Scientamatific Research from www.csiro.au/en/Research/Environment/Oceans-and-coasts/Sharks/White-shark-facts
Can white shark numbers be estimated?
There are no reliable estimates of white shark population sizes or trends in Australian waters.

These are Facts, bj. Facts.

Hmmmm sounds like the researchers that are critically underfunded need to spend more time on the water spending more funds so they can be further undecided.

That or we could listen to the Pickerings and Dawes etc that spend every fricken day of their lives on the water who are stating they're seeing a massive increase in the number of encounters with Whites of all sizes in the last 6-8 years.

Fark me......

Last month a four year study into Great Whites in WA was released stating that they had no idea if Great White numbers had increased or decreased and concluded that it was impossible to determine their numbers. Four years of research and they have no idea. I have a pretty good idea what has happened to the population since they became protected.

So Legion, let me know when you're ready to over come your fear of sharks. I have just the spot to give it a go, you'll either be cured or never enter the water again.....

I would, but I doubt you or bjshack are capable of reading research papers so it'd be a waist of thyme.

Maybe if I post an outraged facebook post link instead.

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jbshack said...

Andy T said..
JB I think your 'science' is social media! Where is this scientific data? I don't mean a report, I mean where is the raw project right up? Not some edited for public consumption report!!!

Here is as good a place to start as any

www.csiro.au/en/Research/Environment/Oceans-and-coasts/Sharks/White-shark-research-findings

JB that's exactly what I'm talking about...that's called a watered down public report! That is not research results at all.
JB I'm a scientist and that crap is not worth reading

I see the inherent fear of sharks is alive and well and I don't mean that in a disrespectful way just a fact most people over react to shark attacks.

Just 6 surfers have died of shark attacks in WA since Ken Crew was taken in 2000 sure 6 to many.

Over 3000 road deaths in the same period most were avoidable 100's of kids are in those numbers where is the outrage? Where are the endless forum pages arguing over culling bad drivers?

There isn't as the response to shark attacks is always irrational such is the way peoples brains are wired.


Kill the sharks kill the ocean.


PS do something that will change the outcome should you experience an attack and carry a torniquete.

^ more like 16, since 2000 i think

bad drivers go to jail

we have many practical and effective measures in place to reduce the road toll, none for sharks , hence this debate that goes around and around. If the number of fatalities was on the decline like the road toll people on this forum would be talking about surfing instead

Wow what a surprise.. another thread turned into a cull not to cull self opinionated shark debate. We have just had a cracking season of surf and no froth threads on that. I'm glad I kite and talk ****e in that forum because you guys are getting boring and predictable

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Agent000 said..
^ more like 16, since 2000 i think

bad drivers go to jail

we have many practical and effective measures in place to reduce the road toll, none for sharks , hence this debate that goes around and around. If the number of fatalities was on the decline like the road toll people on this forum would be talking about surfing instead

Nope 6 surfers.

We don't have practical measures at all (2016) road toll is 1 in 12,000 chance of dying how can that be practical? Shark bite not death is 1 in 1,000,000.

My point is that the reaction to shark attack is irrational as it's not in line with death on the roads.

Kill the sharks kill the ocean

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Macaha said..

DARTH said..





Also before these attacks really started we all knew the risk and we still surfed. So we still live with the risk as before.

True as a surfer we all take that risk in entering the ocean,its just that the risk in this area has taken a whole new meaning.
We are seeing heaps of locals from this area driving up for a surf in SEQ.
Sure as hell I won't be surfing there anytime soon would you?

Talking to a guy at work from NSW he was saying a friend who surfs the area was wrapped in the lack of crowds and how he is getting more waves

I have a mate in the SW of WA same rings me up after every attack and raves about how many waves he is getting with the lower numbers in the water.