Zane Westwood riding the new GoFoil NL160 yesterday. These are the newest series of wings from GoFoil. Made for speeeed.
link: www.instagram.com/tv/CDmiroyjKAj/?igshid=b0h2veehpbl7

They're not serious about those winglets on the ends of the wings are they? Negligible benefit and capable of giving you a nasty puncture wound

These are not for beginners. They are the advanced to pro wings.
If any foil hits you it'll do damage.

I am very eager to see if the benefit is actually from the winglets (doubtful) or more likely the foil section. expensive experiment to grind off the ends and find out, but someone should do it.

Once you fall on the wingtip and it breaks off in your thigh, you'll know next session if it works or not :) haha I kid I kid.

Anyone else thinking that GoFoil are becoming the C4 of foiling..

Don't the winglets reduce drag?

I thought the winglets were the secret to the takuma foils being really good units.

I wouldn't be too worried about hurting myself on the winglets but I am dubious as to how well they will withstand the general wear and tear of foiling.

But I suppose if you are a next level pro you would never fall off or hit the bottom

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Pacey said..
They're not serious about those winglets on the ends of the wings are they? Negligible benefit and capable of giving you a nasty puncture wound

I imagine GoFoil do extensive testing to make sure every part of their designs work, including the winglets, or they wouldn't include them.
Takuma were the first to have winglets and as far as I'm aware there hasn't been a plethora of injuries being reported due to being impaled on winglets. I haven't heard anyone complain that they snap off either. These winglets are on the top of the foil as they move through the water so if you hit them on rock you've been doing one hell of a maneuver
There's all sorts of theories about what winglets do. In the end it's going to be down to how the foils perform. From the initial responses (bearing in mind they are all from pre-release 'testers', therefore people sponsored by GoFoil in some form) everyone is saying they are super fast and turn really well - much more so than the GL series, which we all know are none too shabby in themselves! However they also say they are strictly for expert riders only, they have less lift than the GL's, and they NEED speed to fly, i.e. have a high stall speed. I imagine that if you are after a super fast foil that is quick to turn then these would be a lot of fun, but like all things, it's up to the individual about what style of riding you want from your foils.
I believe they were developed primarily for downwinding but by happy coincidence they are also super fun in the waves.
There's benefits to fast foils, but if you want a pure surf experience then a lot of guys are opting for slower, medium aspect foils as they don't outrun the wave which makes it easier to stay in the pocket. They won't be for everyone but you gotta admit they look exciting

James Casey's initial thoughts:
www.facebook.com/jamescasey.aus/photos/a.1714291252171992/2641294742804967/

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Dommo49 said..

Pacey said..
They're not serious about those winglets on the ends of the wings are they? Negligible benefit and capable of giving you a nasty puncture wound

I imagine GoFoil do extensive testing to make sure every part of their designs work, including the winglets, or they wouldn't include them.
Takuma were the first to have winglets and as far as I'm aware there hasn't been a plethora of injuries being reported due to being impaled on winglets. I haven't heard anyone complain that they snap off either. These winglets are on the top of the foil as they move through the water so if you hit them on rock you've been doing one hell of a maneuver
There's all sorts of theories about what winglets do. In the end it's going to be down to how the foils perform. From the initial responses (bearing in mind they are all from pre-release 'testers', therefore people sponsored by GoFoil in some form) everyone is saying they are super fast and turn really well - much more so than the GL series, which we all know are none too shabby in themselves! However they also say they are strictly for expert riders only, they have less lift than the GL's, and they NEED speed to fly, i.e. have a high stall speed. I imagine that if you are after a super fast foil that is quick to turn then these would be a lot of fun, but like all things, it's up to the individual about what style of riding you want from your foils.
I believe they were developed primarily for downwinding but by happy coincidence they are also super fun in the waves.
There's benefits to fast foils, but if you want a pure surf experience then a lot of guys are opting for slower, medium aspect foils as they don't outrun the wave which makes it easier to stay in the pocket. They won't be for everyone but you gotta admit they look exciting

There's no doubt that winglets work to reduce induced drag if they are properly designed. These ones look like afterthoughts added by someone who didn't really understand the theory. The position is wrong, they look too small to be useful, they just look like a marketing gimmick that is going to end up giving more than one person a nasty scar.
i'm sure the rest of the wing is nicely designed and very efficient, but I don't think these are anything other than attempt to look different in what is now a crowded market.

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Pacey said..

Dommo49 said..

Pacey said..
They're not serious about those winglets on the ends of the wings are they? Negligible benefit and capable of giving you a nasty puncture wound

I imagine GoFoil do extensive testing to make sure every part of their designs work, including the winglets, or they wouldn't include them.
Takuma were the first to have winglets and as far as I'm aware there hasn't been a plethora of injuries being reported due to being impaled on winglets. I haven't heard anyone complain that they snap off either. These winglets are on the top of the foil as they move through the water so if you hit them on rock you've been doing one hell of a maneuver
There's all sorts of theories about what winglets do. In the end it's going to be down to how the foils perform. From the initial responses (bearing in mind they are all from pre-release 'testers', therefore people sponsored by GoFoil in some form) everyone is saying they are super fast and turn really well - much more so than the GL series, which we all know are none too shabby in themselves! However they also say they are strictly for expert riders only, they have less lift than the GL's, and they NEED speed to fly, i.e. have a high stall speed. I imagine that if you are after a super fast foil that is quick to turn then these would be a lot of fun, but like all things, it's up to the individual about what style of riding you want from your foils.
I believe they were developed primarily for downwinding but by happy coincidence they are also super fun in the waves.
There's benefits to fast foils, but if you want a pure surf experience then a lot of guys are opting for slower, medium aspect foils as they don't outrun the wave which makes it easier to stay in the pocket. They won't be for everyone but you gotta admit they look exciting

There's no doubt that winglets work to reduce induced drag if they are properly designed. These ones look like afterthoughts added by someone who didn't really understand the theory. The position is wrong, they look too small to be useful, they just look like a marketing gimmick that is going to end up giving more than one person a nasty scar.
i'm sure the rest of the wing is nicely designed and very efficient, but I don't think these are anything other than attempt to look different in what is now a crowded market.

Really... a marketing gimmick??? I'd rather trust GoFoil's R&D from all their pro riders than go by what they 'look like', and I'm sure as hell not going to snap them off just to prove a point
Sam Pa'e used to stick his own (tiny) winglets onto his maliko 200 because he said they added stability and control - hard to see them in this screenshot (black line close to end of foil) but they are smaller than the ones on the NL's.
If you've got a problem with their performance due to what these 'look like' I' can't wait to hear what you think about the new Takuma foils when they come out (sworntosecrecy)

It looks like those winglets aren't fully aligned with the water flow.
A bit like thruster fin set-up have toe-in angles to improve reactivity.
Maybe that's why they're so tiny : to reduce the extra-drag
My 10c speculation...

This is the wing James Casey flogged everyone at the 12 tower event. Some guys were on the Takuma foils as well.
I know these are not for everyone but they are fantastic for the guys wanting more than what the GL offers.
they feel as if you have more bite through turns.

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Dommo49 said..

Pacey said..

Dommo49 said..

Pacey said..
They're not serious about those winglets on the ends of the wings are they? Negligible benefit and capable of giving you a nasty puncture wound

I imagine GoFoil do extensive testing to make sure every part of their designs work, including the winglets, or they wouldn't include them.
Takuma were the first to have winglets and as far as I'm aware there hasn't been a plethora of injuries being reported due to being impaled on winglets. I haven't heard anyone complain that they snap off either. These winglets are on the top of the foil as they move through the water so if you hit them on rock you've been doing one hell of a maneuver
There's all sorts of theories about what winglets do. In the end it's going to be down to how the foils perform. From the initial responses (bearing in mind they are all from pre-release 'testers', therefore people sponsored by GoFoil in some form) everyone is saying they are super fast and turn really well - much more so than the GL series, which we all know are none too shabby in themselves! However they also say they are strictly for expert riders only, they have less lift than the GL's, and they NEED speed to fly, i.e. have a high stall speed. I imagine that if you are after a super fast foil that is quick to turn then these would be a lot of fun, but like all things, it's up to the individual about what style of riding you want from your foils.
I believe they were developed primarily for downwinding but by happy coincidence they are also super fun in the waves.
There's benefits to fast foils, but if you want a pure surf experience then a lot of guys are opting for slower, medium aspect foils as they don't outrun the wave which makes it easier to stay in the pocket. They won't be for everyone but you gotta admit they look exciting

There's no doubt that winglets work to reduce induced drag if they are properly designed. These ones look like afterthoughts added by someone who didn't really understand the theory. The position is wrong, they look too small to be useful, they just look like a marketing gimmick that is going to end up giving more than one person a nasty scar.
i'm sure the rest of the wing is nicely designed and very efficient, but I don't think these are anything other than attempt to look different in what is now a crowded market.

Really... a marketing gimmick??? I'd rather trust GoFoil's R&D from all their pro riders than go by what they 'look like', and I'm sure as hell not going to snap them off just to prove a point
Sam Pa'e used to stick his own (tiny) winglets onto his maliko 200 because he said they added stability and control - hard to see them in this screenshot (black line close to end of foil) but they are smaller than the ones on the NL's.
If you've got a problem with their performance due to what these 'look like' I' can't wait to hear what you think about the new Takuma foils when they come out (sworntosecrecy)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that winglets aren't a good idea. The theory is well understood and they have been used to good effect on a wide variety of aircraft for several decades.

What I am saying is that the GoFoil winglets look to be too small and too far forward on the wingtip to have much effect.

What a particularly funny thread to read! The naish guy cracked me up! Ha ha because I actually thought Naish was the new C4! I don't see any serious paddlers racing out for the alloy mast because that extra couple of kilos of dead weight is like some kind of advantage ha ha except for the additional maintenance required ha ha. Then the guy who's worried about spearing himself on the winglets! Well bet he is a wing dinger and let's be honest guys if your not a downwind paddler how the hell would you know what is fast or not! Better chime out you boys cos you got no clue! Let the market decide! Fast is fast!

I agree with pacey, if you have any understanding of hydro/aerodynamics, how wing tips/tiplets work and what they do to achieve that.. they just look wrong (unless of course theyre not designed to act as a traditional tiplet)
The wing fences (fences are inboard from the tip, tiplets are attached to the tip) people were sticking on the top of old go foils was purely to straighten out the excessive spanwise flow you get from a fat foil with lots of anhedral. Spanwise flow robs lift and feeds the tip vortex increasing its intensity. Fences are the worst way to do it, but the easiest.

Thanks for sharing and your Instagram posts sharing dimensions and perspective! From what I hear it is an exciting wing... different ride but faster and turns better than GL. Sounds like the 160 is a great size!

Armchair engineering aside.... not a chance GoFoil would go to the pain in the rear to add the winglets arbitrarily- without pretty good reason. You can bet that those wings have been well tested- both with and without the winglets of various iterations by top riders who preferred the ride w/.

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Holoholo said..
Armchair engineering aside.... not a chance GoFoil would go to the pain in the rear to add the winglets arbitrarily- without pretty good reason. You can bet that those wings have been well tested- both with and without the winglets of various iterations by top riders who preferred the ride w/.

Exactly my point. What really cracks me up is when anyone quotes physics or aerodynamic theory and then goes on to say "but they just LOOk wrong". Hahaha how very scientific

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Dommo49 said..

Holoholo said..
Armchair engineering aside.... not a chance GoFoil would go to the pain in the rear to add the winglets arbitrarily- without pretty good reason. You can bet that those wings have been well tested- both with and without the winglets of various iterations by top riders who preferred the ride w/.

Exactly my point. What really cracks me up is when anyone quotes physics or aerodynamic theory and then goes on to say "but they just LOOk wrong". Hahaha how very scientific

Maybe some of us actually have enough experience with aerodynamics and hydrodynamics that we have a pretty good understanding of what is reasonable given current knowledge, and what looks like a stab in the dark by someone who doesn't really have a clear idea what they are doing.

By way of contrast, the Takuma winglets I've seen online look a lot better, reasonable size and extending back to the trailing edge of the foil.

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Pacey said..

Dommo49 said..

Holoholo said..
Armchair engineering aside.... not a chance GoFoil would go to the pain in the rear to add the winglets arbitrarily- without pretty good reason. You can bet that those wings have been well tested- both with and without the winglets of various iterations by top riders who preferred the ride w/.

Exactly my point. What really cracks me up is when anyone quotes physics or aerodynamic theory and then goes on to say "but they just LOOk wrong". Hahaha how very scientific

Maybe some of us actually have enough experience with aerodynamics and hydrodynamics that we have a pretty good understanding of what is reasonable given current knowledge, and what looks like a stab in the dark by someone who doesn't really have a clear idea what they are doing.

By way of contrast, the Takuma winglets I've seen online look a lot better, reasonable size and extending back to the trailing edge of the foil.

I see your in WA, Go to Stand up surf shop and demo one from Marcus.. then let us know what you think!

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pohaku said..

Pacey said..

Dommo49 said..

Holoholo said..
Armchair engineering aside.... not a chance GoFoil would go to the pain in the rear to add the winglets arbitrarily- without pretty good reason. You can bet that those wings have been well tested- both with and without the winglets of various iterations by top riders who preferred the ride w/.

Exactly my point. What really cracks me up is when anyone quotes physics or aerodynamic theory and then goes on to say "but they just LOOk wrong". Hahaha how very scientific

Maybe some of us actually have enough experience with aerodynamics and hydrodynamics that we have a pretty good understanding of what is reasonable given current knowledge, and what looks like a stab in the dark by someone who doesn't really have a clear idea what they are doing.

By way of contrast, the Takuma winglets I've seen online look a lot better, reasonable size and extending back to the trailing edge of the foil.

I see your in WA, Go to Stand up surf shop and demo one from Marcus.. then let us know what you think!

Good idea, I'll do that

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Pacey said..

Dommo49 said..

Holoholo said..
Armchair engineering aside.... not a chance GoFoil would go to the pain in the rear to add the winglets arbitrarily- without pretty good reason. You can bet that those wings have been well tested- both with and without the winglets of various iterations by top riders who preferred the ride w/.

Exactly my point. What really cracks me up is when anyone quotes physics or aerodynamic theory and then goes on to say "but they just LOOk wrong". Hahaha how very scientific

Maybe some of us actually have enough experience with aerodynamics and hydrodynamics that we have a pretty good understanding of what is reasonable given current knowledge, and what looks like a stab in the dark by someone who doesn't really have a clear idea what they are doing.

By way of contrast, the Takuma winglets I've seen online look a lot better, reasonable size and extending back to the trailing edge of the foil.

"and what looks like a stab in the dark by someone who doesn't really have a clear idea what they are doing".
Are you talking about me or Alex Aguera? I freely admit not having any aerodynamic and hydrodynamic experience, but I would bet good money that Alex Aguera and his design team do. More to the point they know what works and what doesn't when all the theory is put into practice. Alex worked for years to develop foils that worked for SUP foiling when most others told him he was wasting his time. I reckon he knows what he's doing, and looking at the Instagram posts from the likes of James Casey & Dave Kalama ripping on them and beating all their downwind PB's, it looks like they perform pretty darn well! Having said that I know they are all sponsored by GoFoil so I'd be genuinely interested to hear what you think of them when you try them.

I've got no horse in this race. I doubt the wing is everyone's taste, but Alex/GoFoil has a track record- enough cred- tries/tests before he puts wings into production that I will assume it works- some will really love it. They state up front it is not intended for the masses- is a wing more for a top level rider. I'll just speculate what may be going on here and often is in endeavors like board shaping. Sometimes when you are dealing with the exchange between a human rider, vehicle and water... perfect hydro-dynamics- max efficiency are not all that is in play. There's a little black magic involved dealing with control, responsiveness and feel. What looks or theoretically "should" be the best does not always translate into what works- feels the best for a rider. And of course- there is a range of taste- what characteristics match a rider's preference, skill, style. Many shapers will tell you regarding a magic board- it shouldn't work- but it does. Why experimentation and trying are important making toys for humans. I'm glad there are outliers with the stones to ignore naysayers- to experiment. It's exactly why I am able to do something as crazy fun as foiling on a surfboard in the first place. Cheers.

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Holoholo said..
I've got no horse in this race. I doubt the wing is everyone's taste, but Alex/GoFoil has a track record- enough cred- tries/tests before he puts wings into production that I will assume it works- some will really love it. They state up front it is not intended for the masses- is a wing more for a top level rider. I'll just speculate what may be going on here and often is in endeavors like board shaping. Sometimes when you are dealing with the exchange between a human rider, vehicle and water... perfect hydro-dynamics- max efficiency are not all that is in play. There's a little black magic involved dealing with control, responsiveness and feel. What looks or theoretically "should" be the best does not always translate into what works- feels the best for a rider. And of course- there is a range of taste- what characteristics match a rider's preference, skill, style. Many shapers will tell you regarding a magic board- it shouldn't work- but it does. Why experimentation and trying are important making toys for humans. I'm glad there are outliers with the stones to ignore naysayers- to experiment. It's exactly why I am able to do something as crazy fun as foiling on a surfboard in the first place. Cheers.

Very well put

Will be interesting to see how they hold up, the wing-tips look very vulnerable on the end. I store my foil on the board in my car so mine would end up looking like standard wings very quickly. Would be good to try them though.

Those shark tooth tiplets might be good for shedding seaweed..

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DavidJohn said..
Anyone else thinking that GoFoil are becoming the C4 of foiling..

Excuse my ignorance, but you are going to have to explain to me what "the C4 " of foiling means ? I'm guessing it's not positive

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kobo said..

DavidJohn said..
Anyone else thinking that GoFoil are becoming the C4 of foiling..

Excuse my ignorance, but you are going to have to explain to me what "the C4 " of foiling means ? I'm guessing it's not positive

Maybe I'm showing my age here.

C4 were the first production stand up paddle boards designed by a group of Hawaiian guys and they had the potential to be the SUP leaders in their day but unfortunately they kept coming up with odd designs that often didn't work.. Beside their odd board designs (some were brilliant in their day) they had a few other crazy ideas including their Stendie adjustable paddle that had a ball instead of a handle because the twisting motion to lock it couldn't always have a normal handle lining up with the blade and the paddle could also be used as a water pistol (I kid u not) and their paddle blade fin was another one of their breakthrough ideas (that didn't work)..

It was a tongue in cheek comment that wasn't meant to disrespect GoFoil.. I'd love to see them remain the original and the best.. Really.. But personally I think these sharp shark-tooth shape tiplets on their new foil are a bit irresponsible from a safety point of view even if they do work.. Also even if they are for the best foilers you can't stop average foilers using them..

Hope that explains and sorry if my joke comment offends anyone.. That's why I added the wink emoji.

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DavidJohn said..

kobo said..

DavidJohn said..
Anyone else thinking that GoFoil are becoming the C4 of foiling..

Excuse my ignorance, but you are going to have to explain to me what "the C4 " of foiling means ? I'm guessing it's not positive

Maybe I'm showing my age here.

C4 were the first production stand up paddle boards designed by a group of Hawaiian guys and they had the potential to be the SUP leaders in their day but unfortunately they kept coming up with odd designs that often didn't work.. Beside their odd board designs (some were brilliant in their day) they had a few other crazy ideas including their Stendie adjustable paddle that had a ball instead of a handle because the twisting motion to lock it couldn't always have a normal handle lining up with the blade and the paddle could also be used as a water pistol (I kid u not) and their paddle blade fin was another one of their breakthrough ideas (that didn't work)..

It was a tongue in cheek comment that wasn't meant to disrespect GoFoil.. I'd love to see them remain the original and the best.. Really.. But personally I think these sharp shark-fin shape tiplets on their new foil are a bit irresponsible from a safety point of view even if they do work.. Also even if they are for the best foilers you can't stop average foilers using them..

Hope that explains and sorry if my joke comment offends anyone.. That's why I added the wink emoji.

Big difference between C4 and GoFoil though. Two different industries.. I worked for C4. They are the company that got me into this industry. Unfortunately yes it did die here in Australia in 2012. But hey they tried stuff no one else did. Some worked some didn't. But you don't know till you try!! I live by that quote.

Gofoil have been testing these wings for months now. They work. Maybe you should try one!

I'd love to try one..

Shame about Merimbula this year but fingers crossed most of us can still make it anyway regardless.