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jondrums said..

Dommo49 said..

I was hoping to be able to jump start the P180 like this as well but it looks like it's going to be a tough call to do that as it's p.a. is the same as the GL180 and I've never been able to start that wing by this method - 85kg is my excuse!!!! I'll give it a few attempts though

you can't compare projected area when the aspect ratios are so different. With such high aspect ratio and wide wingspan, that same projected area will have a ton more lift while at the same time less drag. Don't give up on the P180 so fast. (I don't have first hand experience with the P180)

Cheers Jondrums, that's also good advice. Wasn't giving up though, just thinking out loud while waiting (in anticipation) for them to arrive... and... it's literally just arrived!!!!!!! Will take it out this evening and give it a few goes

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Dommo49 said..

jondrums said..

Dommo49 said..

I was hoping to be able to jump start the P180 like this as well but it looks like it's going to be a tough call to do that as it's p.a. is the same as the GL180 and I've never been able to start that wing by this method - 85kg is my excuse!!!! I'll give it a few attempts though

you can't compare projected area when the aspect ratios are so different. With such high aspect ratio and wide wingspan, that same projected area will have a ton more lift while at the same time less drag. Don't give up on the P180 so fast. (I don't have first hand experience with the P180)

Cheers Jondrums, that's also good advice. Wasn't giving up though, just thinking out loud while waiting (in anticipation) for them to arrive... and... it's literally just arrived!!!!!!! Will take it out this evening and give it a few goes

Hey Dommo please make a clip of your NL wings. Your youtube is great for tips and pretty amazing location to.

I'm still on my malikos and can't wrap my brain around the idea that such a thin wing can be flat water pumped.

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AndyShwartz said..

Dommo49 said..

jondrums said..

Dommo49 said..

I was hoping to be able to jump start the P180 like this as well but it looks like it's going to be a tough call to do that as it's p.a. is the same as the GL180 and I've never been able to start that wing by this method - 85kg is my excuse!!!! I'll give it a few attempts though

you can't compare projected area when the aspect ratios are so different. With such high aspect ratio and wide wingspan, that same projected area will have a ton more lift while at the same time less drag. Don't give up on the P180 so fast. (I don't have first hand experience with the P180)

Cheers Jondrums, that's also good advice. Wasn't giving up though, just thinking out loud while waiting (in anticipation) for them to arrive... and... it's literally just arrived!!!!!!! Will take it out this evening and give it a few goes

Hey Dommo please make a clip of your NL wings. Your youtube is great for tips and pretty amazing location to.

I'm still on my malikos and can't wrap my brain around the idea that such a thin wing can be flat water pumped.

Hi AndyShwartz. Yup, sure will, and thanks for the feedback As soon as I've had a chance to get enough TOW with the new foils I'll be putting together a video to compare the GL's, NL's and P180 - very much an amateur's perspective as ever!!!! In the meantime, don't be worried about the difference in shape from the maliko's - thin (high aspect) wings are awesome - so much more glide and faster than the maliko range. The GL240 is actually easier to flat water pump than the maliko 280 once you get the technique dialled, and TBH there's not that much difference, the transition doesn't take long. Once you've tried HA you won't go back

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Beasho said..

steamroller said..
i dont thinknits doable on any other wing..
you gotta spinnout the tips!..

Inspired by you I tried a few 360's this week in New England. I actually came QUITE close on the GL210.

YESSSS...practice!...sooner or later you'll get it too...its stinkin FUN!...especially when big guys like us do it is way cooler

Hi!
what kind of tail you use with nl's?
i ride a gl180 with a long pedestal and something close to a 14,5" flip tail...does it fit with a nl 220 or 190?
thanks a lot

i use the 18w tail with the short 6.5 pedestal...there is a significant change to your pump cadence when changing from 9.5 down to 6.5...

the 9.5 is a long period...pump ...pump..
..pump ...where you actually bend your knees and squat in the pumps

the 6.5 is a short quick...bapbapbap...on your toes like youre jumping rope...still use you knees but not nearly as deep

the 6.5 will work if you do the long period slow pump way but the short quick way is very noticeably better...like WOW this thing FLYs when i go bapbapbap!

amd the TURNING!....the 6.5 pedestal is no contest for turning

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yunlecoon said..
Hi!
what kind of tail you use with nl's?
i ride a gl180 with a long pedestal and something close to a 14,5" flip tail...does it fit with a nl 220 or 190?
thanks a lot

All the tails you use with the GL's will be suitable with the NL's - AND the P180. I've just been using the P180 and NL160 today, swapping between the GoFoil 14.5" flip tip tail and a KDmaui 14.5" tail, all on the 6.5" pedestal. The GoFoil tail is really good - great lift, turns nice, LOADS of control & stability. The only downside is that you can feel a bit of drag - but nothing too bad, until.... The KDmaui tail is AWESOME!!!!! Literally feels like theres nothing there from the point of view of drag - there is NONE!!!!. Super fast, decent lift, but the way it turns is unreal - a bit twitchy at first but once you get used to it you can turn as hard as you like. Carves real smooth as well if you don't want to crank it.
First impressions of the P180 & NL160:
P180 - best glide & pumping performance I've ever known. Needs a bit of sped to go but when going it keeps going. Will let you ride almost non-existent swell. Did 3 circles around the boat and then joined the wake again - could only do once around the boat with the GL240 or GL180. Pumping from 1st to second, then from 2nd to first wake is EASY compared to the GL's. Could easily overtake the boat while pumping (not sure of the boat speed but was slightly faster than I usually ride the 1st wake). Turning - I wasn't expecting much but it wasn't that bad - with the GoFoil tail was ok - HOWEVER, with the KDmaui tail it turns amazing. That tail is insane how it allows such a wide foil to turn the way it did!!!!! It turns in a wider arc than the GL's while pumping, but when on the wake I could whip it round just as hard as the GL180 with the KDmaui tail.
NL160 - smoooooth as silk. Fast and unreal long glide, BUT, needs speed to keep going. Pumps well, but nowhere near as easy to pump as the P180. It has a slightly different feel to the GL's & P180 to pump, so it may be that I need more time to get used to pumping the NL's. Turns really nicely - I was expecting it to be twitchy, but its really easy to control the turns. I can see this will be my go-to high wing foil for winging, and I can see me trying prone foiling with this one - if anything can tempt me away from my Jimmy Lewis foil board and the bigger foils this will do it!
Got the NL220 arriving soon so can't wit to try that as well. Will post more updates when I can.

Oh yeah. Dock starting the P180 (from a standing start not a run up) - managed it a few times each time I went out, but only on 10% success at the moment if that. MUCH harder than the GL240 (90%) but it's possible. It needs speed to get going so I'm having to modify my start technique, but I haven't got anywhere that I can do a running start so I'm a bit limited. I'm finding a fast tail is better than one with more lift, as the tails with more lift are usually slower and that combination makes the P180 stall. A short pedestal is better as you get more instant acceleration. Will be interesting to see if I can start the NL220 this way.

hey how much do you weigh?...i wanted to get the p180 the first time i saw it but alex said ...no ill just break it...but after reading this...i kinda dont care ..i still want to try...

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steamroller said..
hey how much do you weigh?...i wanted to get the p180 the first time i saw it but alex said ...no ill just break it...but after reading this...i kinda dont care ..i still want to try...

He said he weighed 85kg.

Dommo looking forward to hearing how how the NL220 goes. Sounds like they really are NL.

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steamroller said..
hey how much do you weigh?...i wanted to get the p180 the first time i saw it but alex said ...no ill just break it...but after reading this...i kinda dont care ..i still want to try...

Haha, sorry - It's an awesome wing for sure, I love it already, BUT, I haven't tried the NL220 yet - it should arrive in about a week so I'll let you know how it compares with the P180 as soon as I get it.
I was 85 kg, but am now down to 82. Didn't try to lose weight, it seems foiling just does that to you. I can see why Alex warned you that the P180 could snap - it's super thin and has the smallest cord i've ever seen. With the wingspan at 1065mm (only 5mm less than the GL240 and 72mm wider than the NL220) that must mean there's a ton of pressure on the wings.

cool...thanks. ..now im checking this place every day for fir more news...

Hey I am using the NL220 downwind and sometimes dingle. Its great. Harder to start as compared to the GL240 down wind for example but once your up its about the same pump but way more maneuverable and a ton faster. I wish there was a bigger one for downwind on the smaller and lighter wind days but as long as its 20 knots here i am good on the NL220. Be epic on the WA coast in bigger and more powerful runners or open ocean swell. Just wind chop here in the gulf in Adelaide but still a heap of fun. I try and get my garmin out one day (if i remember ha ha).

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Scotty Mac said..
Hey I am using the NL220 downwind and sometimes dingle. Its great. Harder to start as compared to the GL240 down wind for example but once your up its about the same pump but way more maneuverable and a ton faster. I wish there was a bigger one for downwind on the smaller and lighter wind days but as long as its 20 knots here i am good on the NL220. Be epic on the WA coast in bigger and more powerful runners or open ocean swell. Just wind chop here in the gulf in Adelaide but still a heap of fun. I try and get my garmin out one day (if i remember ha ha).

What size wing-ding do you use in those conditions with the 220?

Was talking mainly about downwind with a paddle

First impressions of NL160 with wind wing - wind 12-16 knots for one session, and around 9-12 knots for the second. Using the 5' Fanatic wing board (75 ltrs & I weigh about 82kg) and a 7m Duotone Echo.
Easy to get started in the 14 knot average wind - almost no pumping needed. I was surprised that I could get up on foil in the low wind session - I had to wait for a gust, but by pumping the wing and bouncing the board like crazy it was possible, although VERY hard work.
When up on the foil my first impression was how smooth it was - it felt like there was almost no drag whatsoever. Nice speed, but control with it. Turns really well but I was on the 36.5" mast for the first time (I'm used to the 32.5") so I was getting used to that, and I think this reduced the responsiveness a bit. As I was going faster than usual i couldn't turn as tight, but the carves were lovely and controlled and you can keep your speed through them.
Stand outs so far - the gliiiiiiide is unreal. Even when the wind dropped the 160 kept it's speed and I wasn't having to pump at all to keep going through the lulls. The only reason I know there were lulls was because a few times I deliberately stopped to see what the wind was like, and there was so little I had to wait for another gust to get going again. Any other foil I would have had to pump the board to keep going through the lulls - the 160 kept going and didn't even lose any speed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! To put this into perspective I would normally have chosen to use my GL240 over the GL180 with this little wind.
Technique wise - I found that I had to keep much more back foot pressure than with any other foils I've used - both when carving and when pumping. It's early days yet but at the moment I've got my front foot slightly further back than normal (which means my feet are closer together than normal), but as yet this isn't causing any breeching problems - this issue actually seems to be reversed with the NL160 - I had more issues keeping the nose up rather than keeping the nose down, but once I'd gotten used to putting more pressure on my back foot while carving it was great.

First impressions of the P180 with a wind wing - DON'T!!!! It's awful. A totally different beast than when SUP or prone foiling.

Had the sickest tow session on the NL160 today. Waves for over 1500m super fast, no drag and turns epic

Received my NL 190 last week. No surf so I used it winging in 20-30 with the wide 18". I really like it except.... At 15 knts it starting singing in harmony. Yes, two distinct sounds. Any suggestions on how to eliminate these sounds. BTW, when I fly my GL 210, all is good.

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windwakerider said..
Received my NL 190 last week. No surf so I used it winging in 20-30 with the wide 18". I really like it except.... At 15 knts it starting singing in harmony. Yes, two distinct sounds. Any suggestions on how to eliminate these sounds. BTW, when I fly my GL 210, all is good.

You probably need to sand the trailing edge of your foil - front or back, maybe both, to get a 45 degree angle on the lifting (rounded) side. Here's a few 'How-to' videos:

Thanks...will do

Steamroller I want to see you on inflatable version of this

Finally got my garmin on today. Did a DW (with a paddle) in the gulf which is wind chop no swell. On a One 5'10" with the NL220 and the 18W tail. Took me for ever to get started but one up did a 2:46;05, 2:48:52 and 2:54:99 my 3 fastest spits. Not a super fast day on the water but enough wind. Got to work out how to get up quicker that part is driving me nuts on this wing but once up I am loving it.

Just ordered an NL190.

While I am excited to do 360's I am more interested in the application for Big Wave foiling.

The bigger waves, 8 foot faces++, require that you can keep the nose down on takeoff, fly fast and then hustle to the shoulder or the flats for safety.

I have been using a GL140 which has been great but all big waves eventually fade into smaller lumps or roll into deep water and then you have to keep flying. I am excited to see how a 1) Bigger Wing that is also 2) Faster will accommodate all these needs.

I was out yesterday in 7.5 Feet @ 13 second swell energy with my GL210. The wing was having a tough time keeping up with the speed of the swell once I was ~ 200 yards into the ride (The wing actually stayed down well on 8 - 10 foot takeoffs which was nice).

I will also be testing with NEW Watch app. This lets you download the data. MUST GET MORE DATA:

www.waterspeedapp.com/

Wow, what an awesome foil! The last two days we've had thigh high clean surf. Went out on the first day with the 14.5 flip and I had to work a little to fly. Second day I added a washer to the stab and it popped up on foil quickly and pumped really nice. Thanks Alex!!!!

Yup Alex is a GENIUS

Steamroller & windwakerider (& anyone else who's uses the NL's)

Loving the NL's but wondering what length mast you're using. I sold my 32.5" mast with my GL's to get the NL's, and went for a short mast (24.5" tuttle + plate adapter = 27" ) and long mast (36.5") to replace my 32.5" mast. My idea was that I would use the short mast for surfing and the long mast for winging (to prevent breeching in big swell) but I find the 36.5 much less responsive for turns, and the short mast is super difficult for surfing as breeching is now a big issue and I'm finding the NL's tend to drop suddenly if I come off the wave/swell. Missing my 32.5" mast - wondering what you guys think. Should I get the 32.5 again?

yup get the 32.5 plate mast again thats the best all around mast...best for stopping breaching and best for pumping and turning....surfing...

keep the 36.5 mast for kiting and winging though...

i used the 36.5 tuttle mast with plate adapter =39.5 for a lot of SUP 360s because thats all i had and it worked fine for the past month and a half and it still turns and pumps really well...i dont think i ever breached it once ...but for waves waist high and smaller it is terrible!...that was the frustratingpart...in really small waves on takeoff the wing ends ou being well below the power of the wave and you can actually feel the wing move into and out of the power while you're trying toget airborne...also most smallwaves need really shallow water to break and the 36..5" exceeds the water depth needed...you WILL get stuck on yhe rocks teetering board out of the water. ..if you're going to ride only waist high and larger waves the 36.5 will work great...but in socal you gotta be ready to grovel

hello, all the way from Greece !

I just bought a 14,5 flip tail and I own the 9,5 pedestal and I was wondering if anyone has tried to put this set upside down?
I haven't seen anything online but since the insert of the fuselage is unidirectional I tried it on dry land and seems fine.


thanks

Dommo49, I'm using the 29.5 Tuttle

Upside down you mean at the top
or the bottom of the pedestal?