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DavidJohn said..

kobo said..

DavidJohn said..
Anyone else thinking that GoFoil are becoming the C4 of foiling..

Excuse my ignorance, but you are going to have to explain to me what "the C4 " of foiling means ? I'm guessing it's not positive

Maybe I'm showing my age here.

C4 were the first production stand up paddle boards designed by a group of Hawaiian guys and they had the potential to be the SUP leaders in their day but unfortunately they kept coming up with odd designs that often didn't work.. Beside their odd board designs (some were brilliant in their day) they had a few other crazy ideas including their Stendie adjustable paddle that had a ball instead of a handle because the twisting motion to lock it couldn't always have a normal handle lining up with the blade and the paddle could also be used as a water pistol (I kid u not) and their paddle blade fin was another one of their breakthrough ideas (that didn't work)..

It was a tongue in cheek comment that wasn't meant to disrespect GoFoil.. I'd love to see them remain the original and the best.. Really.. But personally I think these sharp shark-tooth shape tiplets on their new foil are a bit irresponsible from a safety point of view even if they do work.. Also even if they are for the best foilers you can't stop average foilers using them..

Hope that explains and sorry if my joke comment offends anyone.. That's why I added the wink emoji.

Ok thanks , now I understand, it's great having all this new gear coming out , and entertaining hearing everyone's views coming out with it.
Cheers Kobo

So much crazy stuff coming out at the moment. Good time to be alive.

I think a 'boost fin' or something similar will be next. Imagine cruising out with no paddle power just to burn your legs to oblivion. That's next.

OMG!

So so so much faster I can't believe it actually. Initial lift is a lot less but wow the speed is crazy. I only have tried it on the dingle so far (not a real sport ha ha) Cant wait to try downwind! Hope I can get it up!

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Scotty Mac said..
So so so much faster I can't believe it actually. Initial lift is a lot less but wow the speed is crazy. I only have tried it on the dingle so far (not a real sport ha ha) Cant wait to try downwind! Hope I can get it up!

Which size have you used?

Was using the NL220 with the 29.5 tuttle mast with a plate adapter, 18W tail with a wing ding on a duo tone echo 6m and 5'4" sky wing board.

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AndyShwartz said..
So much crazy stuff coming out at the moment. Good time to be alive.

You are not kidding the new Takuma Kajira has teeth
www.facebook.com/TakumaConcept/videos/315392026333826/

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Scotty Mac said..
Was using the NL220 with the 29.5 tuttle mast with a plate adapter, 18W tail with a wing ding on a duo tone echo 6m and 5'4" sky wing board.

Awesome. I know a few people who have used the NL190 & 160 and they love them, and say they have great range and are quick to turn. So far you're the only one who I know has used the 220. How do you rate it compared to the GL's? Does it turn better than the equivalent GL210? Reckon it would be good in small waves?

How fast are these NL wings?? Has anyone got any real world GPS data downwinding or on the wing-ding to share.

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hilly said..

AndyShwartz said..
So much crazy stuff coming out at the moment. Good time to be alive.

You are not kidding the new Takuma Kajira has teeth
www.facebook.com/TakumaConcept/videos/315392026333826/

The bumps on the leading edge are called tubercules, humpback whales have them, and there has been some research done on them in yacht design, both for conventional rudder and keels as well as hydrofoils. They were experimented with during the 2013 Americas Cup, but as I recall showed good stall performance but higher drag.

I did a lot of research on tubercules back in 2017 when all of my foil shapes were based on dolphin/whale tails, its due to how the humpbacks feed, circling schools of krill and fish while creating bubble rings to heard them into a position that it can scoop them up. to do this the whale needs simply outstanding maneuverability, which dictates that the foils can not stall. if they stall, they whale will starve. this is what the tubercules are for (notice they have a jagged trailing edge too) to prevent stall at simply outrageous angles of attack - up to 90 degrees- but remember there is 25 ton of whale attached to that flipper, a bit of parasitic drag does not worry her if it means she will get a feed and live another day. they serve no purpose in straight and level flight (pre stall AoA) except maybe eliminating a bit of spanwise flow near the tip, although there are far better ways to do that than tubercules.

sorry bois i know the sport is new and theres alot of exciting developments, but its still a marketing game, and this ****s all been tried before (and dropped) by racing yacht teams with many many times the budget and CFD computing power than takuma.

edit: i should add when i built this foil i was working next door to the team new zealand americas cup base, everyday the designers would walk past our shed on their way to get coffee. when they saw this wing they laughed and said get rid of them.

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container said..
I did a lot of research on tubercules back in 2017 when all of my foil shapes were based on dolphin/whale tails, its due to how the humpbacks feed, circling schools of krill and fish while creating bubble rings to heard them into a position that it can scoop them up. to do this the whale needs simply outstanding maneuverability, which dictates that the foils can not stall. if they stall, they whale will starve. this is what the tubercules are for (notice they have a jagged trailing edge too) to prevent stall at simply outrageous angles of attack - up to 90 degrees- but remember there is 25 ton of whale attached to that flipper, a bit of parasitic drag does not worry her if it means she will get a feed and live another day. they serve no purpose in straight and level flight (pre stall AoA) except maybe eliminating a bit of spanwise flow near the tip, although there are far better ways to do that than tubercules.

sorry bois i know the sport is new and theres alot of exciting developments, but its still a marketing game, and this ****s all been tried before (and dropped) by racing yacht teams with many many times the budget and CFD computing power than takuma.

edit: i should add when i built this foil i was working next door to the team new zealand americas cup base, everyday the designers would walk past our shed on their way to get coffee. when they saw this wing they laughed and said get rid of them.

'They serve no purpose in straight and level flight'

I don't think that is what advanced rippers are after. They want to rip tight turns off the top and avoid stalling just like you mentioned. Proportionally speaking the weight of 200 lb rider on a small foil could be similar to that of a whale.

A turn changes the foil attitude, not angle of attack, the chord line of your foil is still roughly aligned with the water flow even in the tightest of turns. Youre not exactly ramping the aoa up to 70 degrees- measured from the direction of flow not against the horizon or a spirit level. If you are banked over and pulling the nose up at 45 degrees, it doesnt mean you are at 45 degrees aoa, it means you are 'pulling up' at an angle of 45 degrees.

What is the difference between the P wing and the NL wing ?

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frenchfoiler said..
What is the difference between the P wing and the NL wing ?

P180 is for pumping and the NL is next level advanced wing with the winglets. Made for a lot of speeed.

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pohaku said..

frenchfoiler said..
What is the difference between the P wing and the NL wing ?

P180 is for pumping and the NL is next level advanced wing with the winglets. Made for a lot of speeed.

Yes but P180 for pumping only, that doesn't make sense, you wouldn't get a wing only to pump...

Which one would be best for DW ?

James Casey when he won the race was on the P or NL ?

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frenchfoiler said..

pohaku said..

frenchfoiler said..
What is the difference between the P wing and the NL wing ?

P180 is for pumping and the NL is next level advanced wing with the winglets. Made for a lot of speeed.

Yes but P180 for pumping only, that doesn't make sense, you wouldn't get a wing only to pump...

Which one would be best for DW ?

James Casey when he won the race was on the P or NL ?

He was definitely on an NL, but not sure which size - I'm guessing the NL190 but could have been the NL160.
I asked GoFoil what the P180 is for and they said it's a pumping machine - designed for pumping to connect lots of small waves, but it doesn't turn very well. Because it's seriously high aspect ratio it's faster than the GL180 (it's super efficient so has more glide) and it pumps better than the GL240. If you are into flat water pumping you can pump it for a lot longer than the GL240 or GL180 - if you can get it started from a dock start that is - because it's got a smaller surface area it's hard to dock start.

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frenchfoiler said..

pohaku said..

frenchfoiler said..
What is the difference between the P wing and the NL wing ?

P180 is for pumping and the NL is next level advanced wing with the winglets. Made for a lot of speeed.

Yes but P180 for pumping only, that doesn't make sense, you wouldn't get a wing only to pump...

Which one would be best for DW ?

James Casey when he won the race was on the P or NL ?

He was on the NL.
The P180 is also a great down wind, wake or small choppy day wing. it's got a similar wing span to the GL240

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pohaku said..

frenchfoiler said..

pohaku said..

frenchfoiler said..
What is the difference between the P wing and the NL wing ?

P180 is for pumping and the NL is next level advanced wing with the winglets. Made for a lot of speeed.

Yes but P180 for pumping only, that doesn't make sense, you wouldn't get a wing only to pump...

Which one would be best for DW ?

James Casey when he won the race was on the P or NL ?

He was on the NL.
The P180 is also a great down wind, wake or small choppy day wing. it's got a similar wing span to the GL240

Hi pohaku
Do you know how the P180 compares to the GL240 and GL180? I'm assuming the P180 is faster than both, but how does it compare in terms of initial lift and turning when used for downwinding, catching & riding small surf and light wind winging. Basically any info on how the P180 compares to the GL's would be helpful - I'm trying to decide if it's a good replacement for the GL240. I'll probably replace the GL180 with one (or two) of the NL's.
Thanks in advance, Dom

Here's something the nl220 can do. Not sure steamroller posts on here. Seen him trying these since he got the nl's. Cool to see a carving 360 pulled off.

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Hdip said..
Here's something the nl220 can do. Not sure steamroller posts on here. Seen him trying these since he got the nl's. Cool to see a carving 360 pulled off.

Awesome!!!!

Dommo, I have actually tried to find out the same thing about the P180. Not having the NL series available in around the GL240 size is causing me some "foil anxiety" also! ha ha

Hi guys...i wanted to buy the P180 but Alex said no...at 240lbs ill probably just break it and it turnsike a glider....long carves ...if you are not a heavyweight and want to pumpmpump pump around to connect lots of waves the P180 is good for that but...

get the NL Series!...you'll be HAPPY??

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Scotty Mac said..
Dommo, I have actually tried to find out the same thing about the P180. Not having the NL series available in around the GL240 size is causing me some "foil anxiety" also! ha ha

Yeah, right!!!! First world problems. I've pulled the trigger on the P180, NL220 & NL160 (YOLO) so will report back when I've had a chance to use them. Not sure when they will arrive though.
I asked Casey about them and he said the NL220 will do what the P180 does but the P180 has better lift and better glide.
I reckon the P180 will do me better for the small wind driven waves we mostly get here. I can catch them better with the GL240 than with the GL180 but I much prefer the speed/extra glide you get from the GL180, so I'm hoping the P180 will be the better choice for SUP foiling in our pitiful conditions. I'll be using the NL foils mostly for wing-dinging.

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steamroller said..
Hi guys...i wanted to buy the P180 but Alex said no...at 240lbs ill probably just break it and it turnsike a glider....long carves ...if you are not a heavyweight and want to pumpmpump pump around to connect lots of waves the P180 is good for that but...

get the NL Series!...you'll be HAPPY??

From the look of what you're doing on the 220 I can't wait to get it!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been told the NL190 is a good choice for me but I'm trying to make the most of the conditions we get here - mostly light wind (7m wing-ding weather) so the NL220 will be awesome, and I'll get the NL160 for when the wind picks up.
I'm 180 lbs so I'm hoping the P180 will be ok for me - will be using this for SUP foiling in all the ****ty little waves we get here in Oman. The GL240 has more lift but is sooo slow compared to the GL180 so I reckon the P180 will be a better fit. Here's hoping anyway

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steamroller said..
Hi guys...i wanted to buy the P180 but Alex said no...at 240lbs ill probably just break it and it turnsike a glider....long carves ...if you are not a heavyweight and want to pumpmpump pump around to connect lots of waves the P180 is good for that but...

get the NL Series!...you'll be HAPPY??

oops...!!!
get the NL Series!...you'll be HAPPY.!!!

I haven't tried the GL240...but i believe it when you say its slower than the GL180...

the GL210 pumps forever...its really fun to be able to fly and choose any wave of the incoming set that you want...but i sometimes found myself thinking...man i wish this thing would move faster!


GREAT choice on the NL220 though...that thing has the pump of the GL210 with the speed and control of the GL140...PLUS the winglets!...theyre no joke!

Clinton, what about lift of NL 190and 220 compared to gl210? Similar, a lot less, what do you say. Thanks!

im 240 lbs and the NL220 is my choice forever...i have the NL190but loaned it out and dont care if i ever get it back...only to loan it out again...the NL220 has the glide and pump of the GL210 and the speed and control of the GL140...plus the winglets let you spin the tips out and re-engage and keep flying

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steamroller said..
im 240 lbs and the NL220 is my choice forever...i have the NL190but loaned it out and dont care if i ever get it back...only to loan it out again...the NL220 has the glide and pump of the GL210 and the speed and control of the GL140...plus the winglets let you spin the tips out and re-engage and keep flying

Thank you, good to know. From the pics of NL wings it looks like 190&220 have the same width but cord is narrower on 190. Is that true or just camera distortion? Also 170lbs guy, would I be ok on 190? I am in Florida on gulf coast so no big swell mostly knee/waist high windswell. Thanks Clinton!