Screws connecting aluminium to carbon will create electrolytic corrosion problems. These problems will be massively worse in salt water than in that freshwater lake/dam.
How do Alpine and others get around this?

Back in the day a Columbia River Gorge based company was developing windsurfing booms with aluminium and carbon sections connected with stainless steel fittings. They did their R and D in fresh water. As soon as the product hit salt, there were a truckload of broken booms.

Not saying it can't be done, but I'd want to know how they get around this before forking out for new gear.

Alpine uses galvanic isolators to keep them separated. Not sure about the others - most of them use fibreglass instead!

Not sure whether they would have any effect on the seating / solidity of connection. I guess 4 x offset screws on the main wing keeps it pretty secure.

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<div class="gwt-HTML">tef gel is used to prevent aluminum corrosion. should be applied on manta screws assemblies. not required for arrow. 1. The function of Tef-Gel in eliminating dissimilar metal corrosion is the elimination of electrolytes from entering the interface of the metallic surfaces. Tef-Gel paste contains 40% PTFE powder and 0% volatile solvents, no silicones or petroleum solvents to evaporate, which would leave voids for electrolytes to be drawn into creating a galvanic cell. When both surfaces are coated and mated with Tef-Gel there are no voids for electrolytes (saltwater) to be drawn in by capillary action over extended periods of time.EXAMPLE:A. Bolt with nut or lock nut. Bolt into tapped aluminum, steel, stainless steel, inconel.
Use mascara brush, bottle brush, or toothbrush to apply a thin coat of Tef-Gel to both the threaded hole and the bolt threads and tighten. (Torque requirements may have to be altered according to application of thread lubricants).B. Bedding surfaces: A closely mating surface (10 mils .010 or closer) can be protected from capillary action by applying a thin coat of Tef-Gel with brush, toothbrush, or plastic scraper and assembling the parts and cleaning excess product with mineral spirits or WD-40.Tef-Gel does not electrically insulate hardware. The PTFE (40%) is ultra fine powder that will extrude out of the contact area and into the voids of the surrounding areas.Tef-Gel applied between electrical contacts and connectors does not increase the resistance of the connections even at hundreds of amps, maintaining the integrity of EMI shielding.2. The function of Tef-Gel in eliminating seizing galling and friction welding of stainless steel, inconel, and other nickel alloys.EXAMPLE:Tef-Gel applied to both mating surfaces of nuts and bolts or threaded holes and bolts leaves a layer of 40% solid PTFE within the thread interface, which works as friction barrier. Tef-Gel, which contains 0% volatile solvents, will no evaporate, cold flow, or dry out, giving protection many years later when hardware must be dissembled.

Just noticed Sroka has most of his items finally in stock now with 2 prices- with and without VAT. That makes his stuff 20% cheaper for Aussies .

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snalberski said..
Just noticed Sroka has most of his items finally in stock now with 2 prices- with and without VAT. That makes his stuff 20% cheaper for Aussies .

+ 160euro freight + 15% Australian duty and GST =



Plus bank fees (about $20-$40) or credit card foreign currency fees OF 2-4%

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BrisKites said..

snalberski said..
Just noticed Sroka has most of his items finally in stock now with 2 prices- with and without VAT. That makes his stuff 20% cheaper for Aussies .

+ 160euro freight + 15% Australian duty and GST =



Plus bank fees (about $20-$40) or credit card foreign currency fees OF 2-4%

Add $50 for customs handling fee

... sooo, just wondering,,,,, how long do you guys intend leaving the foil assembly completely assembled so the corrosion etc becomes a problem??

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pilotpete said..

BrisKites said..

snalberski said..
Just noticed Sroka has most of his items finally in stock now with 2 prices- with and without VAT. That makes his stuff 20% cheaper for Aussies .

+ 160euro freight + 15% Australian duty and GST =



Plus bank fees (about $20-$40) or credit card foreign currency fees OF 2-4%

Add $50 for customs handling fee

Yes this is pretty close to accurate....

Beginner foil/board package 1125 Euro...... 1570 Aud
freight. 150 Euro...... 210 Aud
10% GST. 178 Aud
5% Import duty. 89 Aud
4% PayPal fee. 71 Aud
Customs handling fee. 53 Aud

Total. 2171 Aud

It is possible however to split the consignment into 2 packages of equal value, both valued under 1000Aud. When sent separately a few days apart they are not subjected to GST, import duty or customs handling fees.

Vid from Jeremy Tronet on the new North Foil.

It's hard to work out what market they were aiming at - it costs a fortune, can't be trimmed, and gives you plenty of opportunity to catch & twist your feet & ankles. On the plus side he makes it look super stable.

The water not to mention the tandem riding

I've just received a quote directly from Alpinefoil for the Access 5.0 & RX-V5 board. It shows 1590 + 125 ship to Calif. ($1950)
this is identified as pre-order price prior to May 31- 30% deposit, for delivery late June - foil porn attached

Thanks bob - first time V5 board seen in the wild? Can't see a huge difference with the V5 except seat for the speedo puck. I'd probably save a few bucks and stick to the v4 - unless there's other differences. I think it's about $100 AUD between them.

As for the wing, did you specify sport wing cos that's what's in the pic I think? Have you foiled before?

Interesting snippet:
----------------

LF total weight is 19.6lbs
Manta total weight is 23.6lbs
to give you a reference point In that, the Slingshot NF2 is 16.8lbs

these are total weight (board, foil, screws and the whole shebang)

My invoice doesn't appear to specify, but the 3 wing types are sport, race, and wave. The sport wing would be my first ride... I've asked AlpineFoil for weight details on Friday. But I examined a Manta and LF FF yesterday and found both quite heavy (but couldn't discern that the Manta was much heavier but your info shows that it IS). And I haven't located the board weight for the Sroka, but I've seen a total wt of 11kgs here www.24-7boardsports.com/ . I'm compiling a spec spreadsheet that I'd propose we publish on Google Docs. The Alpine VX5 board has diagonal foot strap inserts, not on the V4, FWIW, Cheers Bob

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havasubob said..
And I haven't located the board weight for the Sroka, but I've seen a total wt of 11kgs here www.24-7boardsports.com/ .

This isnt correct.... I just weighed my Sroka foil and board at 8.3 kg(18.29 lb) all up including 3 straps. The scales are possibly inaccurate but it should be right +/- a couple of hundred grams

Bob FWIW my understanding is the XLP (extra large program) wings are the learner ones, then sport/race/wave are for progression.
Thanks for tip about V5..

Nice vid of a 64yo noob making learning look relatively controlled and painless.. one stack in the middle where he nearly skewers himself though.

Bob keep us informed how your purchase goes, and post pics when it arrives please

few more vids:

.be

Hi Guys,

We are just back from the North Dealer meeting where most of us got our first opportunity to ride the North Foil LTD.

As a novice to the world of foiling I will pass on comments overheard and mentioned by more experienced foilers as well as my own thoughts and limited experiences.

The North foil is aimed at the recreational freeride foiling market. It isn't super high performance and is made with safety, durability, quality and ease of use in mind. The quality of the build seems excellent and many of the guys commented on the light weight and quality of finish. Most guys all agreed it wasn't as fast as their race foils but there was some disagreement as to how much off the pace it is. Consensus seemed to be 10-20% slower.

Consensus was that the board and foil were actually really easy to use by comparison to performance foils. Pitch control is easier and noob mistakes of falling on the foil doesn't leave you seriously gashed or stabbed by the wings.

The mast is solid as, the whole rig was beautifully built and super solid. The wing set is designed to be replaceable with a higher performance wing which will come sometime in the not-to-distant-future, making the setup a good option for progressing.

From my personal perspective, I have spent a total of about 40 minutes learning, 30 minutes of that was on a performance foil. The 10-15 minutes I spent on the North product was at the end of an exhausting session in really gnarly chop and a body that was not used to the work. I learned much quicker on the North board and started to get the hang of it rapidly. I managed to kick the foil a couple of times whilst fumbling around getting started and drew no blood, in fact I kicked and pushed the foil a couple of times deliberately to help me get the board in position to start. Nice.

Our Foil board arrives this week and I will be out and about on it during the winter. The North Foil is not for racing, it is designed for freeriding for beginners and intermediate riders. There is a huge gap in the market from what I can see in the beginner market. The guys from North have produced a bomb proof, high quality freeride foil for people who want the feeling of flying without the dangers of high performance foils. I am comfortable not wearing helmet, boots, impact vests etc on this foil.

My board will be available for demo should people be interested in foiling but not necessarily racing. My plan is to foil but not race because I like the sensation and the light wind improvement but don't have the time to devote to racing.

Good on ya North, the gear is good and will satisfy all but the race market. There isn't a huge free foiling market yet .... perhaps North has removed a few more of the barriers for people to begin learning.

DM

Hey Darren,thanks for your take on the North Foil.Heard they are pricey whats the actual damage for their foil kit give or take a few dollars.The kit is aimed at the beginner foiler and not the race guys, but if really pricey how do the average Joe get a chance to appreciate this innovative design.In comparison to the other foil wing designs, North has designed real game changer.The enclosed wing design would have to be stronger and after reading your comments a easier to learn on.Hopefully one day the North foil kit will be affordable.Regards Leigh

Good on ya North, the gear is good and will satisfy all but the race market




Totally agree, except for one detail. The crack cocaine super model escort price. $4.5 grand? I think the dudes who choose north colours shared their drugs with the marketing guys....

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LeighMajor said..
North has designed real game changer.

Lets say that they aimed to mainstream where money is. I would say that this is not a game changer, it's just foil for all people willing to spend 4.5k and with that you have guarantee that your progression will be very successful and you would not get some hard cut because there is no sharp edges on wings.

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1950 said..

LeighMajor said..
North has designed real game changer.

Lets say that they aimed to mainstream where money is. I would say that this is not a game changer, it's just foil for all people willing to spend 4.5k and with that you have guarantee that your progression will be very successful and you would not get some hard cut because there is no sharp edges on wings.

if anyone knows how to short foilboards on the stock market let me know. Sell now for $4.5k buy back in 2 years for $400.

In understanding the North price, dont forget it doubles up as a clothes line for hanging your wetsuit out to dry.

Am on my way to see Chris from Fastafoil - looking to see if its a good idea to put a foil on my shinnster ( ie similar to the way Greg from Boardriding Maui rides).

My aim is to travel just with surfboard and a "convertible" shinnster

Shinnster is rather flexible, and sinks easy. We shall see what we come up with.

Alternative is the Moses foil, which floats - a foil teacher advised that this made strapless waterstarting easier.

Ok at $4.5k,for the North Foil kit,at that price not a lot of potential Foilers could afford to start.Maybe another brand can design a similar shape say Liquid Force who seem to have their price a bit more realistic.Norths foil shape is quite different from the wing design making it more beginner friendly but the price is over the top and out of reach to a lot of potential Foilers.Regards Leigh

Been researching for a few weeks now,. The market here in France is already quite mature (eg yesterday over a dozen veteran foilers were out) and there are a handful of French and Italian brands that you see on the beach. The North has me baffled - whilst I could afford it, I dont see why - there are plenty of good stable beginner options for less than half the price, with swappable wings once you are ready to move on. Looking at the round edged carbon beginner wings, I am not too intimidated of being cut - compared to some sharp metal ones. Whilst I havnt tried it, I struggle to believe its the magic answer to learning to foil in an afternoon and will carry you to a full-thrills level too. Certainly not dropping that much cash to find out.

I can understand kite schools using it tho.
The second hand depreciation on the North could be massive too if it doesnt turn out to be a magic wond.

In the meantime beginner set ups by skora, zeeko, alpine, moses, fastafoil etc etc look fine to me. I have gone for a fastafoil as it was a pleasure to deal with chris direct and the foil looks and feels good In your hands. If I end up not liking foiling, depreciation on resale not too bad on any of these models.

A second hand North in 12 months time could be interesting for those looking to start next year, but Im not waiting.

Thanks for the input Jason, ignore Hizakite's comment about depreciation, he's made comments 4 or 5 times so far in this thread about not being keen on foiling personally, fads and depreciation (some deleted). I thought he was finished with the pointless "contributions" last time.

I agree the North board would make a perfect foil school board, and that was acknowledged by North as one of the market segments they were aiming at.

I will be interested to see if Fastafoil and moses bring out cheaper models..

Chris at fastafoil explained that the only way to go cheap was to mass produce in metal (they can pour hundreds in a day). Carbon takes more time especially to get a quality finish. Mixing a cheap metal mast with carbon wings can produce corosion by electrolysis.

I have not yet seen a metal wing that I am comfortable with cut-wize. The weight difference is also significant if you want to travel, or walk any distance, or use a board with limited floatation

Not really for beginners per this topic, but the Horue vids are just awesome for inspiration : www.horue.fr/tutoriels-kitefoil

I agree the Horue vids mix amazing foil riding with great filming and editing. Massive inspiration.
I'd love to be good enough to justify their freestyle foil & board - currently a dream 2nd (or 3rd!) foil for me at the moment.
I love the style of the small, flat board totally strapless.
I have a feeling though that the rider in their vids is a total machine and us mere mortals could never do that kinda stuff..

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kiteboy dave said..
Thanks for the input Jason, ignore Hizakite's comment about depreciation, he's made comments 4 or 5 times so far in this thread about not being keen on foiling personally, fads and depreciation (some deleted). I thought he was finished with the pointless "contributions" last time.

hey kiteboy not against it, just poking a bit of fun. I wouldn't be following this thread if I was not a least bit interested. in fact might even try it one day but just like my sup I suspect it will just take up space in the garage.

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HighzaKite said..

kiteboy dave said..
Thanks for the input Jason, ignore Hizakite's comment about depreciation, he's made comments 4 or 5 times so far in this thread about not being keen on foiling personally, fads and depreciation (some deleted). I thought he was finished with the pointless "contributions" last time.

hey kiteboy not against it, just poking a bit of fun. I wouldn't be following this thread if I was not a least bit interested. in fact might even try it one day but just like my sup I suspect it will just take up space in the garage.

Ha! I thought there was a bit of "he doth protest too much" going on. Just like all those prominent 'pray the gay away' religious types, they always get flushed out of the closet in the end

I'm kinda with you, I also lost a bit of money on a race board as I found it wasn't for me, I was just choosing a TT the limited times I had to kite so I sold it at a big loss before it depreciated any more. The same risk is there with a foil but it's an even bigger investment - and I don't want to spend the money unless it's going to be well used.