Ok so I posted about the Manta as below and got 3 or 4 red thumbs, I presume from sellers of the foil fish for suggesting that the fish board isn't really ideal as a foil board, as they've just used an existing skim/surf fish design rather than something made for foils (not enough volume or nose rocker, heavy, etc).

Rather than spam the other thread, I thought I'd start my own to kinda document my own research and it might help others. I'm intending to buy a foil board when the stars align and I have the money, time, and I heal up some war wounds. Maybe as early as the start of next season.

There appears to be a rush of foils entering the market, led by the euros, particularly france, but with the rest of the world catching up. First wave, carbon race foils for a huge price. 2nd wave which is just starting now, Aluminium/Fibreglass or Aluminium/Carbon for much less money, but a couple of extra kilos.

I might buy a 2nd hard carbon model, or a new hybrid, haven't decided.

Foil Fish
The first to hit the market here is the Foil Fish, plenty of threads already, for $2000 you can walk into a store here and get a fish board that can be used for surf kiting without the foil, a slow, forgiving, easy alu/fg foil with faster c/f wings available down the line, and even a bag. There are reviews in other threads here.
liquidforcekites.com


Manta
Manta is a kite foil board, with alu mast & f/g wings, also with faster c/f wings available. Their board has lots of volume, big concaves, big rocker on the nose, and inverted rails. Thekitefoil have just started doing free shipping worldwide Current price I work out at $2200 delivered.
www.thekitefoil.com/#!online-store/cre6/!/manta-2015-hydrofoil-with-Pro-Race-board/p/46563788/category=12087149

Alpinefoil
Alpinefoil have just released an aluminium + carbon fibre foil as well, for $1185 that could be worthwhile depending on what board you sourced. Renders look pretty but I haven't seen actual pics yet. Not sure on package price & postage yet.
www.alpinefoil.com/en/pages/kitefoil/kitefoil-alpinefoil-5-0.html


Zeeko have just announced a hybrid for around 800 euros. TheKiteFoil used to make their foils up until last year. I'll post on that when more details come up.

Sroka
I seem to have forgotten Sroka who have an alu/fg offering that comes in at $1950 plus postage.
A patent pending system of attachment as do Magmafoil (who seems to have the easiest system to use, one screw from back)
www.srokashop.com/default.php


Horue
Not for beginners, but they offer a lighweight freestyle full carbon board and foil combo for $2200 plus postage. That's a steal. A good option probably if you loved mucking around on wake skates, skim boards, etc. As well as tricks / air, it looks pretty good in the surf too from his vids.
www.horue.fr/produits/h13/h13-lightweight-freestyle-foil
www.horue.fr/boards/caneri-pro-model

I have been looking at the manta for a while now but cannot find any reviews on how they ride
anyone have any feedback?
They look cool and modular upgradable which also is ticking some boxes for me.

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Coopslander said..
I have been looking at the manta for a while now but cannot find any reviews on how they ride
anyone have any feedback?

a bit of feedback from a few individuals on the big forum:

on the weekend icracked open the box on TKF foil.
First noticeable thing is that weight of the whole foil put together is far heavier than stated.
the 4 bolt plate weighs 895 grams.
Mast weighs 1740 grams
Fuselaje weighs 690 grams
total weight of foil with 4 hole plate and wings is 4345 grams.

dont know how much the tkf box head weighs but i guess the only way to achieve 3100 grams stated on kiteforum is with the carbon race wing.
Dont think weight is an issue on an begginer/ intermediate foil but accurate info to make a informed decision is key.
Maybe racer and jumpers need them to be under 3 kilos for better performance.

fuselage is solid and lighter than i expected.
From the pictures i thought the mast was wedged into the fuselage but it sits on top like the liquid force foilfish.
connection to mast is solid too.
mast has nice profile!looks fast!
solid as a rock!

front wing is solid no flex whatsoever!
very good connection. its 15mm thick and chord is 125mm at connection point.
it gets thinner to the tips.
Rear wing is thin about 7mm thick and has some flex.
overall connection is very acurate, true and firm.
the shims seem flexible and soft plastic but they offer a solid connection.


Regarding finishing did not arrive perfect.
Rear wings had some paint details and the aluminum mast had small scratches.
blemishes maybe have occured on transport.
thuis came a long way! from Dubai to rural area in Chile!
every thing came well packed on a carboard box with plentyhigh density foam.
i suggested a buble plastic wraping on the wings and aluminun parts to avoid rubbing against the high density foam.
the plate connection to mast is heavy but very firm tight fitting.
the finish on the plate it seems not well polished you can see some machinig tracks.
Mast brand paint came all black, the new look with red seems cosmeticlly more apealing.

maybe offer cooler colors on anodization?
do not know if paint would be better but the silver anodize makes the scratches pop even more.
Regarding foiling ride i will review in 2 weeks!

out of five


-------------------------------------




just received my new Manta from THEKITEFOIL.com the board and foil seams very well built so I’m happy with my purchase. Renaud cut the mask down at no extra charge to 30” so it can be used on the bayside at South Padre Island and its working. I also did buy a standard length mast for the Oceanside this foil board great because everything is interchangeable
It was shipped by DHL and only took about 1 weeks after shipping to arrive and no extra charges like duty
This is my first 4 days on foil board and holly **** foiling is hard to learn but I think every day I’m making progress but it’s like starting all over again. I’m still doing a lot of kangarooing I think foilers call it. I can ride a little bit with my left foot forward before falling in but my right foot forward it’s much harder to ride.
I think the board is making the learning curve easier sense it’s very buoyant and wide.
Renaud has also been very helpful with any questions about the board or how to start foiling.
If anybody in South Padre and would like to try I’m always at the N flats driving a blue 4runner

Don't forget to allow a good 15 to 18% on top of the price for clearing customs.....

Also make sure that the free delivery doesn't exclude Australia. Taaroa currently advertise a free worldwide delivery for the Sword to 2 but ask for an extra $150 to deliver in Oz....

Having recently received a foil and board I can tell you that customs charges are... 10%GST plus 5% import duty plus $52 customs N3.Charged on value of goods and shipping (totaling $318 in my case). Also allow 5-7% for currency conversion and bank/PayPal charges.The Sroka site prices are inclusive 20% TVA (French for VAT) but exports to countries outside of the EU are exempt from this tax. Bruno will adjust the price accordingly.
You'll save 20% on Sroka site prices but get slugged with at least that or more by the time its all tallied up.

Thanks guys that's good info about taxes & charges.

I was reading a few comments last night that there's a few more interesting cheap/hybrid foils due to hit the market in May & June, have been spotted testing etc.

KFA had an entry level foil coming out shortly!! Australian made!!!

Where are the cheap Chinese knock-offs when you need them?

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patto1987 said..
KFA had an entry level foil coming out shortly!! Australian made!!!

Looking forward to seeing that - love to support Aussie made.

shouldn't this be in the foil section?

I didn't see a foil section - but by all means mods feel free to add one.

You don't like foils, got that from your prev deleted comment.

Here's some nice surf foiling

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kiteboy dave said..
I didn't see a foil section - but by all means mods feel free to add one.

You don't like foils, got that from your prev deleted comment.

Here's some nice surf foiling

I have nothing against them, whatever floats your boat, just seems like another expensive passing fad (like race boards went from 2.5k to unwanted in of a couple of years), but if its here to stay then maybe there should be a foil section where you can all discuss the merits of various methods of re-launching a kite in 8 knots.

That vid is great, shame he is on a foil, I would rather just paddle out in that (sans helmet)

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HighzaKite said..

kiteboy dave said..
I didn't see a foil section - but by all means mods feel free to add one.

You don't like foils, got that from your prev deleted comment.

Here's some nice surf foiling

I have nothing against them, whatever floats your boat, just seems like another expensive passing fad (like race boards went from 2.5k to unwanted in of a couple of years), but if its here to stay then maybe there should be a foil section where you can all discuss the merits of various methods of re-launching a kite in 8 knots.

That vid is great, shame he is on a foil, I would rather just paddle out in that (sans helmet)

HighzaKite you have a good point, but what you refer to as a Fad is what many consider progress.

We don't ride horses to work, or steam trains, or diesel trains.. etc.... with time so comes progress, now things just happen a bit quicker, progress happens quicker. Performance of foils from a few years back are not at all comparable to foils of today.
There is a still a big following of race boards, but many have opted to change over to foils as they are faster and more efficient. If something faster comes along then certainly why would those hunting for top performance linger on slower technology.

Not every person races in the highest classes or motor sport, sailing etc. some still sail and race vintage, the appeal of race boards will stick for many still.
There are still new kiters coming onto race boards, they picking them up cheap, learning the sport of kite racing on great gear at a very reasonable price. Some on race boards have opted not to change to foils and continue to push on with the race board as a sport. Race boards are still impressively quick, and were more than twice as quick around the course at Sailing world Cup Abu Dhabi compared to all other attending Sailing classes which is good publicity for kiting as a whole. Kiting is the poor cousin in sailing, there is very little money within kiting compared to most other sports. But as kiting continues to dominate at sailing events so does its position and access to funding from the sailing stream, and that is good for all kiting.

Some may have never raced or will never race, but the challenge of learning to foil is a big commitment and very rewarding.
Some might simply be after a new challenge and foiling may appeal to them for that reason alone.

Some might try foiling and stick with it purely for the sensation and enjoyment of foiling, even if it is superseded someday.

Progress use to take decades or more, now it can happen in the space of just a few years. remember using boxes of 720k floppy disks to backup a 30MB pc not??

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HighzaKite said..

kiteboy dave said..
I didn't see a foil section - but by all means mods feel free to add one.

You don't like foils, got that from your prev deleted comment.

Here's some nice surf foiling

I have nothing against them, whatever floats your boat, just seems like another expensive passing fad (like race boards went from 2.5k to unwanted in of a couple of years), but if its here to stay then maybe there should be a foil section where you can all discuss the merits of various methods of re-launching a kite in 8 knots.

That vid is great, shame he is on a foil, I would rather just paddle out in that (sans helmet)

Couldn't leave it alone, could you.

My previously deleted comment, to your previously deleted comment, went something like this:

I don't like windsurfers (or for that matter wakestyle wiggly bar-pass kiting, yachting, land yacht sailing, or many of the other forums here). Yet I don't go into each and every windsurf (etc) thread and say 'can't see the point of that, personally'. Because that would be dumb, pointless, and generally antagonistic, and I prefer not to be seen by everybody else in the thread as dumb, pointless, and generally antagonistic. Dumb, pointless, and antagonistic comments generally just make the commenter look dumb, pointless, and generally antagonistic. Am I making myself clear?

/for the record why do you think race boards are unwanted? Any clue? I'll help you out - it's because they're *race* boards and they can't remotely compete with foils in a race, which makes them pointless - at the top level anyway.

I don't care whether you like helmets or not - having a tough head doesn't really win any prizes and if you care about looks then you're a little bit sad.

The point of that vid was an example of foils being used by people for more than racing. If you look at foils on sale, there are a bunch of styles - freestyle/tricks, wave, speed, race, learner, etc. Pretty much every single surfer said the same thing you just said when kiters started surfing waves "shame he's on a kite" "he'll never really smack the lip" "never get a barrel" - now look where that's at. Good thing not everyone had that attitude.

I'm perfectly happy if the mods want to create a foil section, as I said before. Why don't you flag this post and see if one comes along?

Thanks for starting this thread. It is interesting and I had wondered about a kite foil board in the surf.

The hurue vid's have all been great so far in showing the utility of the foil.

Here's my 2c worth and for newbies.
Im on a foil fish I've had 5 sessions so far at the moment,I now launch like a twintip and can foil short distances.
Im still bunny hopping but can control it better now still crash but can sort of control those,the biggest tip for someone starting out
would be get on the front foot straight away ,lighten the back foot lean forward and bend ur front foot.
l try to foil on flat water for me that's St Kilda kite breach but now I'm starting to get out from my home beach Bonbeach.
so now I have to get used to choppy water it's not bad when it's a southerly blowing sort of flattens it out a bit but u still have chop.
For me the foil fish is a great board to learn on and it's a solid rig and I think they are going to have interchangeable foils soon to be released.
Hope this helps,foiling is a challenge for sure can't wait to start gybing and tacking.
cheers

I've chased up Alpinefoil about pricing, just out of interest. They can do their Aluminium / carbon fibre foil on a RV-X4 board for $2240 delivered - pretty good price I reckon for carbon fibre product. Plus import taxes.

This board


And this foil


They look pretty fast - full carbon model in video hitting 28kts in 12kt gust..


They have a new RV-X5 board out soon which can take the GPS/speedo you see in the vids, all up about 300 Euro extra.

Aluminium foils are not competitive for racing doesn't matter if they got carbon wings or not.

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INTHELOOP said..
Aluminium foils are not competitive for racing doesn't matter if they got carbon wings or not.

... why is that so? Just wondering is all?

Zeeko has Foil+board combo on sale for $1740 (ex vat) plus shipping/tax. Looks like last year's model, from the guys that have gone on to TheKiteFoil.


That's for a full carbon hydrofoil! Short mast version (80cm) and a board which might be a bit ordinary, not a custom designed foil board anyway.

http://zeeko-kites.com/gb/home/274-packfoilpocket2015shortmast.html

Also just out of interest,why is the film of the alpinefoil which should be same as purchased version,blacked out under the water
so we can't see it??

My bad on the alpinefoil film - it's just one of theirs I was looking at. It's the full carbon race wing 'HLD' not the beginnner 'access / XLP' wing.

these ones have the XLP wing I believe

unexpected booost in this R1 vid

$2200!!!!! The world's gone mad.

what are foils going for in NZ bro ?

OMG! A liquid Force foil is advertised online in NZ for $2300 ($2,299.99 - oh pulease) Even worse! I watch people on them and have half heartedly considered trying one but now that I know the cost of them I'll stick to my ex-demo twin tips.

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kathypacific said..
OMG! A liquid Force foil is advertised online in NZ for $2300 ($2,299.99 - oh pulease) Even worse! I watch people on them and have half heartedly considered trying one but now that I know the cost of them I'll stick to my ex-demo twin tips.

cool story

$2200 is not bad when you consider how much work goes into making a carbon foil. A bit steep for aluminium, but you will pay up to $1200 for a twin tip worth $50 to manufacture in a press. They pop them out like pop tarts

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kkiter said..
$2200 is not bad when you consider how much work goes into making a carbon foil. A bit steep for aluminium, but you will pay up to $1200 for a twin tip worth $50 to manufacture in a press. They pop them out like pop tarts

knitter you are miles off with your assumption on the cost of a TT

Wasn't meant to be read verbatim. Just trying to get a point across. However the prices in some shops are outrageous. If you're so upset about it give us some production costs on your Axis boards.

Regards
knitter