DYNABAR dyneema slider spliced to avoid hook release if the external layer breaks due to wear.
One side the loop to lock with DYNABAR steel pin, the other side make a Savoy/8 knot. The distance to measure for the knot is equal to the DYNABAR length.
Regular maintenance is a good practice if you want to limit equipment failures, but this DYNABAR leash is safe and failure proof!

So lets take your 1800kg rope.
Mix up force with weight and annoy the peoples who know but make it easy for the masses.

Do the right thing and tie off either side of the spreader.
Lets pull it tight and call it 150 degrees as I don't think you could realistically tie it any tighter than that anyways, it will stretch out those knots under full load.
Lets loose half of your rope strength because you tied an overhand knot to terminate it. (not to mention some unfriendly holes to go through)
It's wet so now lost probably another 20 percent so we are now down to what?

1800/2 =900 minus another 20% and we are well under 700kg give or take.

Now take a 100kg monkey kiter and add his soggy wetsuit and a 5kg board and this 110kg package will, at 150 degrees, apply double that force just to stand on the beach, pull the bar and hover an inch above the ground. So 220kg pulls on each side of the spreader bar probably just tied off to a little bit of 1/8 " steel buckle.

Let's get a bit playful and throw in a kite loop or two, and we are guessing here at 3G, so 660kg.
How strong was that rope again?
We are getting awfully close to breaking strain, not safe working load, but breaking strain!!

Conclusion, we simply cannot be pulling 3G or a lot of these setups would be failing.
Or maybe they are very close to and it's just that most people that use them play in the waves and never leave the water in a big way to actually fully load up.

I have a sneaky suspicion that it is the latter.

Now what I would love to hear next is mister Jay chime in with the results of the testing they have conducted with their expensive, waterproof, peak displaying load cell and tell us all what the real numbers are from their extensive field trials.
Again, I have sneaky suspicion that they haven't done this and won't because any breakages that happen can always be contributed to wear, as as soon as you begin to use it the rope has obvious abrasion, so it will always just be called a failure because you failed to replace the rope as soon as wear was evident.

I'm a cynical bugger sometimes.

Go here for a bit of info on loss of strength due to knots and repeated loading.
Note that a figure eight knot typically loses less strength than the simpler overhand knot seen in most home made setups in this thread.

user.xmission.com/~tmoyer/testing/High_Strength_Cord.pdf

My brain is hurting after all this maths
Are we building sky scrapers here or what?
Is there an epidemic of snapping Jay dyneemas that I missed?
The product is excellent in its simplicity. So simple in fact that it is quite achievable to diy on your existing gear.
I dont know if Ian Young was wearing a Dynabar when his harness exploded into pieces across Shark Bay,
but I'm sure he didn't blame any design flaws in the harness. Its just wear and tear.
Salt Sun Sand Rocks Reef Noobs
If the product was designed that badly, it probably would have lasted as long as the HellFish
instead wer'e up to version 7? 8?

Is the Jay product breaking?
Doubt it.
The thread is not about Jay being a bad product, more about people wanting to give it a go without forking out $150.
But be careful what you do yourself without understanding what is required.

The Jay product has a double chord.
Knots typically loose half of the strength when tied and loaded both sides; Used as a stop instead of a joining for ropes, who knows?

There have not been 30 posts pointing out the huge flaws in my calculations and this is an indicator that people are making mods without understanding what it is they are doing.
Several have also done a pretty decent job of it and at least for me has taken away the last restraint from giving it a go as it seems many have already.

The real take home from this thread is that if you use equipment outside of manufacturers recommendations, then at least be prepared to either learn enough about what it is you are doing or know that it may be possible to get yourself dropped from a height and splat the water at some awkward angle.
That, and that it seems that people are far more interested in sliding attachments instead of a fixed hook than most manufacturers give thought to and that maybe as an industry this might become the norm one day instead of fixed hooks.

Kites have gotton better in leaps and bounds but lately the improvement is only incremental.
Safeties have improved as well, and now that manufacturers are getting a grip on how to make them work as they should, maybe they can stray away from what has now become the defacto standard.

There is so much mysticism floating around about using anything but what you bought as a package, that people are not even game to swap bars, let alone mod things and point manufacturers in new directions.
How about a slider that goes all the way from the extreme of one hip to the other? Even further around behind for Toeside simplicity?
No twisting harness!
No need to have the thing so tight it strangles you.

Imagine a 360 deg version with some vertical freedom that always aligns the kite pull with your centre of gravity?
This thread has opened up my eyes to new ways of thinking, I hope it does the same for others.


Keep posting up your setups and see where we can take the industry.

Select to expand quote

toppleover said..
I've been using this set up for a few seasons, IMO the only advantage of the Dynabar (I have the V8), is if you want to have it set up to unhook.

Your knots look like they are just overhand or granny knots, which are known to slip more easily then other knots like the fig8 knot, under load. I would advise you to use Fig8 knots next time and for you to apply superglue to your existing knots and work it well into the knot with something like a large pin or engineers scribe. Those pulleys run smooth and I know a local rider using one too.

Select to expand quote

TerryMcTool said..

toppleover said..
I've been using this set up for a few seasons, IMO the only advantage of the Dynabar (I have the V8), is if you want to have it set up to unhook.

Your knots look like they are just overhand or granny knots, which are known to slip more easily then other knots like the fig8 knot, under load. I would advise you to use Fig8 knots next time and for you to apply superglue to your existing knots and work it well into the knot with something like a large pin or engineers scribe. Those pulleys run smooth and I know a local rider using one too.

The knots are fig 8,s & thanks for the tip, I'll try the glue next time.

Even though you get some rope wear, I prefer using the double rings - the friction gives you some feedback plus the bar is closer.

Personally I think the 'knot' solution could be improved as they are almost impossible to undo and re tension.

If a cleat similar to the picture below could be incorporated into one end (the other uses a figure 8 knot) of a spreader bar - the rope could be tightened and checked for wear easily. As long as the tail can be tucked into something or half hitched around something or if it has it's own figure 8 - then it can't be released and 'lost'.

The whole issue of the harness interface with the rider is about as important as a seatbelt in a car (crash). Your life can depend on it!

I reckon Mario or JAY has a good product - though it could be improved.

The carbon bar on the Ride Engine is a much lighter solution however and composites could take over from metal (Stainless steel or aluminium alloys) in spreader bar application.

^

That is assuming the force is always parallel to a cleat.

Which is never a case when riding. It is actually quite the opposite. Good idea tho.

Ps because someone asked.....here's a 360 degree kite belt. Didn't catch on. My guess is savage wipeouts, being dragged backwards out of control. :-)

m.facebook.com/kitebelt?fref=nf

Select to expand quote

Greenarrowz said..

jaystore said...
Hi, I design JAY equipment and I was informed by our distributor KITEPOWER about this interesting topic.
The DYNABAR has 2 holes and one is used for the sliders. The one below is for an additional dyneema leash to insert the ring and to attack a short leash. This setup is safe and was discussed in kf.com some time ago.
My contribution is this: the new dyneema leash is specially spliced and if the external layer breaks the internal will keep the load and won't slip and release the hook. Nevertheless check it and replace before it it breaks. Another check is the protective plastic sleeve and replace it if broken. We will supply new leash to Kitepower next order.
Another suggestion is not to use sliding rings because too much friction wears the dyneema quickly, we offer rings with pulley and bearing ball with ring.

In any case the anchor points should have a smooth radius and not just dyneema through a drilled hole at an intense angle.
Why not run a small 5 - 10mm pulley shaped radius or small pulley at the anchor point on each side of the plate?
I just bought a v8 dynabar and im going to modify the nasty rope through the hole design that cuts dyneema fast.
What a primative concept.
Its not hard to eliminate the dyneema cutting problem.
If modification is to much work a refund may be a better option.
Why not just design the V9 dyna bar with a horizontal pulley at each side instead of the rope through the hole ?
You could set the rope up as a triangle and let the pulleys share the wear along the dyneema vastly increasing the service time and most of all safety for people using the product.

This is quite harsh and not correct information.

The brand new setup is equipped with a plastic sleeves to stop cutting the rope. This can be clearly seen here:

www.jaystore.eu/index.php/categories/product/2-dynabar-xt-v8


If you 're really worried, takes 5 mins to round and polish a sharp edges on two holes in question with Dremel tool. Yep, not hard at all.

The pulleys would significantly shorten the travel distance AND more importantly they would catch your finger(s).

How would that increase safety is unknown to me.

Select to expand quote

Absolutbeginer said..
So lets take your 1800kg rope.
Mix up force with weight and annoy the peoples who know but make it easy for the masses.

Do the right thing and tie off either side of the spreader.
Lets pull it tight and call it 150 degrees as I don't think you could realistically tie it any tighter than that anyways, it will stretch out those knots under full load.
Lets loose half of your rope strength because you tied an overhand knot to terminate it. (not to mention some unfriendly holes to go through)
It's wet so now lost probably another 20 percent so we are now down to what?

1800/2 =900 minus another 20% and we are well under 700kg give or take.

Now take a 100kg monkey kiter and add his soggy wetsuit and a 5kg board and this 110kg package will, at 150 degrees, apply double that force just to stand on the beach, pull the bar and hover an inch above the ground. So 220kg pulls on each side of the spreader bar probably just tied off to a little bit of 1/8 " steel buckle.

Let's get a bit playful and throw in a kite loop or two, and we are guessing here at 3G, so 660kg.
How strong was that rope again?
We are getting awfully close to breaking strain, not safe working load, but breaking strain!!

Conclusion, we simply cannot be pulling 3G or a lot of these setups would be failing.
Or maybe they are very close to and it's just that most people that use them play in the waves and never leave the water in a big way to actually fully load up.

I have a sneaky suspicion that it is the latter.

Now what I would love to hear next is mister Jay chime in with the results of the testing they have conducted with their expensive, waterproof, peak displaying load cell and tell us all what the real numbers are from their extensive field trials.
Again, I have sneaky suspicion that they haven't done this and won't because any breakages that happen can always be contributed to wear, as as soon as you begin to use it the rope has obvious abrasion, so it will always just be called a failure because you failed to replace the rope as soon as wear was evident.

I'm a cynical bugger sometimes.

Sounds Fine To Me

I use it for boosting too cos I'm too lazy to swap the SBs... I find the fig-8 knot packs down faster but otherwise, it's so far stronger than a Dakine SB

Select to expand quote

dbabicwa said..
^

That is assuming the force is always parallel to a cleat.

Which is never a case when riding. It is actually quite the opposite. Good idea tho.

true

agreed!

though a fairlead integrated into the bar - either moulded into a carbon bar or a welded U on a stainless bar or similar on a die-cast alloy design would solve that problem

Fairlead

A high quality 316 eye bolt used in conjuction with a small marine grade 316 D-link seems like a simple bolt on upgrade to solve the problem.

Method: Remove dyneema rope from plate.
Insert eye bolt through the rope hole and secure with nut at rear and loctite. (First cut eyebolt to minimal length)

Decide if you want a slight angle before tightening.

Tie your dyneema to U section of the
316 D-link of your choice.

Then insert D-link lock bolt through
the D-link and eye of the eye bolt.
Your ready to go kiting.
The D-link allows easy attachment of
Your dyneema.
You could easily just use the eyebolt only
and tie your dyneema to that.

2 nuts on the eyebolt thread is another option,
One in front and one at rear of plate if prefered.


The items here may be one size larger then what you would actually use...you would buy to scale to suit the job,load and easy on the eye look.




You could even add a swivel but lose some slider travel




There are plenty of nice 316 bits that will bolt on.

Just stumbled onto this great thread, thanks to all, but my head is spun, I had to go stick my head in a vat of red wine. I do the Amsteel/bury the rope splice and its very thick: overkill but so far indestructible. Run it tight across and that seems to load the bury splice up real good and the knot gets so tight it looks congealed. The few times I let the outer layer wear through it didnt snap, the splice friction had become permanent for all practical purposes. (A possible benifit of the increased forces but I will now start to worry about the 5X extra load on the (hook chopped off) Dakine Spreader, thanks Absolute). Thanks also Kami for your charts and excellent interpretation for us simpler minded folk. I refer to whatever Ian rigs because his method of testing is fairly established and I can refer to it most days here where we kite (Ventura up to SF Bay area). By the way, if you do go the longer slider rope it puts the bar lot further away if you like to ride waves upwind toeside (forehand) This sometimes yards me off the wave when overpowered. Thinking about a mechanical solution to that.

Select to expand quote

Septic said..
Just stumbled onto this great thread, thanks to all, but my head is spun, I had to go stick my head in a vat of red wine. I do the Amsteel/bury the rope splice and its very thick: overkill but so far indestructible. Run it tight across and that seems to load the bury splice up real good and the knot gets so tight it looks congealed. The few times I let the outer layer wear through it didnt snap, the splice friction had become permanent for all practical purposes. (A possible benifit of the increased forces but I will now start to worry about the 5X extra load on the (hook chopped off) Dakine Spreader, thanks Absolute). Thanks also Kami for your charts and excellent interpretation for us simpler minded folk. I refer to whatever Ian rigs because his method of testing is fairly established and I can refer to it most days here where we kite (Ventura up to SF Bay area). By the way, if you do go the longer slider rope it puts the bar lot further away if you like to ride waves upwind toeside (forehand) This sometimes yards me off the wave when overpowered. Thinking about a mechanical solution to that.

OK, wondering now how many other old geezers like to go upwind on the waves toeside? I think that might be the mother of the invention of the sliding hook. That or long toeside tacks. Problem comes when overpowered and the kite gets too much apparent wind from the wave speed increase. Solution might be rig the slider rope slack at the dogleg angle putting the bar way out there, but there's a leverage device of some kind that you pull in and it tightens up the rope straight across. True thats more load and overpowered to boot but at that point your probably not going to be throwing any kite loops. This way you keep the kite at an ideal trim angle when OP, and pull everything in closer so you can better control it. Let it out when your struggling in the holes. It would also help when barging down the line with too much kite. I saw the man himself a bit wound the other day and skipping like a stone, too much kite, arm straight up. Some of you sound like you have an engineering background. How would you rig that? I can hear you saying "that's what the trim cleat/strap rig is for." Yeah but then the kite's all flagged out and it won't turn! Anyone? I should probably add that all my riding is in waves, adhered only by wax to a surfboard. Wind conditions are often horrible with gusts outside and swirly holes inside. This means a bigger kite (for the holes) than would otherwise be desired.

Select to expand quote

Septic said..

Septic said..
Just stumbled onto this great thread, thanks to all, but my head is spun, I had to go stick my head in a vat of red wine. I do the Amsteel/bury the rope splice and its very thick: overkill but so far indestructible. Run it tight across and that seems to load the bury splice up real good and the knot gets so tight it looks congealed. The few times I let the outer layer wear through it didnt snap, the splice friction had become permanent for all practical purposes. (A possible benifit of the increased forces but I will now start to worry about the 5X extra load on the (hook chopped off) Dakine Spreader, thanks Absolute). Thanks also Kami for your charts and excellent interpretation for us simpler minded folk. I refer to whatever Ian rigs because his method of testing is fairly established and I can refer to it most days here where we kite (Ventura up to SF Bay area). By the way, if you do go the longer slider rope it puts the bar lot further away if you like to ride waves upwind toeside (forehand) This sometimes yards me off the wave when overpowered. Thinking about a mechanical solution to that.

OK, wondering now how many other old geezers like to go upwind on the waves toeside? I think that might be the mother of the invention of the sliding hook. That or long toeside tacks. Problem comes when overpowered and the kite gets too much apparent wind from the wave speed increase. Solution might be rig the slider rope slack at the dogleg angle putting the bar way out there, but there's a leverage device of some kind that you pull in and it tightens up the rope straight across. True thats more load and overpowered to boot but at that point your probably not going to be throwing any kite loops. This way you keep the kite at an ideal trim angle when OP, and pull everything in closer so you can better control it. Let it out when your struggling in the holes. It would also help when barging down the line with too much kite. I saw the man himself a bit wound the other day and skipping like a stone, too much kite, arm straight up. Some of you sound like you have an engineering background. How would you rig that? I can hear you saying "that's what the trim cleat/strap rig is for." Yeah but then the kite's all flagged out and it won't turn! Anyone? I should probably add that all my riding is in waves, adhered only by wax to a surfboard. Wind conditions are often horrible with gusts outside and swirly holes inside. This means a bigger kite (for the holes) than would otherwise be desired.

Get a kite with a short depower throw, many people here will delight in telling you how tall I am not, I have no trouble riding toeside upwind on (or near) the waves with Ozone Reo's or turning and riding downwind to do a few hacks. Removing the chicken loop and anything else that puts the kite further away and that is not actually needed would be a better direction for manufacturers to go. Somehow Ozone seem to have it sorted though with no pulleys and a kite that still steers really well when depowered.

Now I'm more in the waves with a surfboard, the thing that pisses me off most are metals on harnesses and buckles. Metal spreader with hooks keeps dinging my board when I land on it, whiles wiping out. And buckles stresses the glass job whiles carrying the board to and off the beach.
Here's what I did:

You will need 3 metal rings, yes I know. But wait for it.
8mmx68mm heat shrink (optional)

First remove the handle at the back of the harness, if. You have the new mystic harness or ion it may be difficult. So you will have to make what I'm about to show you.

Use that handle and heat shrink a sleave on both end of the handle cord. Covering the plastic sleave and the dynema loop on the end. Don't cover it all the way as you will need to now attach the ring on both ends. You can put a third ring in between the two rings. To make a running ring to attach your chicken loop on. If you hate metal, then forget the third ring. It Works the same but will wear faster.
Loop one ring with the right side/ bottom belt of your harness and buckle it tight. Then put it on you and do the same on the left side.
Attach your chicken loop on the metal ring or the plastic sleave handle and now attach your safety how you see fit create a running safety leash that deploys from the front is best.
With this system you can't unhook but because your body is more open you can still create the same feeling. As the loop slides all the way to the hips.

Use A harness that's 1 size smaller for this as you don't want the harness to move and it will support the small of your back.

Select to expand quote

jaystore said...
DYNABAR dyneema slider spliced to avoid hook release if the external layer breaks due to wear.
One side the loop to lock with DYNABAR steel pin, the other side make a Savoy/8 knot. The distance to measure for the knot is equal to the DYNABAR length.
Regular maintenance is a good practice if you want to limit equipment failures, but this DYNABAR leash is safe and failure proof!

Forums > Kitesurfing > Gear Reviews






Greenarrowz

5 minutes ago

email edit quote reply delete

2 hrs into my first sesh on my new dynabar v8. Is it too hard to make a bush that flexs and not cracks.? Mr Dynabar could send me a hand ful of replacements So my dyneema doesnt get fk,d over... Some spares would have been the idea in with the kit What are they worth $1 for 100. How about it JAYSTORE? Would you like to keep a customer or 2 ?
Such a good product should not be let down by a 1 cent bush.
A formal reply would be nice.

Select to expand quote

Greenarrowz said..

jaystore said...
DYNABAR dyneema slider spliced to avoid hook release if the external layer breaks due to wear.
One side the loop to lock with DYNABAR steel pin, the other side make a Savoy/8 knot. The distance to measure for the knot is equal to the DYNABAR length.
Regular maintenance is a good practice if you want to limit equipment failures, but this DYNABAR leash is safe and failure proof!

Forums > Kitesurfing > Gear Reviews






Greenarrowz

5 minutes ago

email edit quote reply delete

2 hrs into my first sesh on my new dynabar v8. Is it too hard to make a bush that flexs and not cracks.? Mr Dynabar could send me a hand ful of replacements So my dyneema doesnt get fk,d over... Some spares would have been the idea in with the kit What are they worth $1 for 100. How about it JAYSTORE? Would you like to keep a customer or 2 ?
Such a good product should not be let down by a 1 cent bush.
A formal reply would be nice.

Select to expand quote

Greenarrowz said..

jaystore said...
DYNABAR dyneema slider spliced to avoid hook release if the external layer breaks due to wear.
One side the loop to lock with DYNABAR steel pin, the other side make a Savoy/8 knot. The distance to measure for the knot is equal to the DYNABAR length.
Regular maintenance is a good practice if you want to limit equipment failures, but this DYNABAR leash is safe and failure proof!

Forums > Kitesurfing > Gear Reviews






Greenarrowz

5 minutes ago

email edit quote reply delete

2 hrs into my first sesh on my new dynabar v8. Is it too hard to make a bush that flexs and not cracks.? Mr Dynabar could send me a hand ful of replacements So my dyneema doesnt get fk,d over... Some spares would have been the idea in with the kit What are they worth $1 for 100. How about it JAYSTORE? Would you like to keep a customer or 2 ?
Such a good product should not be let down by a 1 cent bush.
A formal reply would be nice.

I answered to this issue in page 4 of this topic and again "the hole is esigned with rounded edge but the polish process used removes some steel and some of the rounded edge". We will smooth the edge after polish process. You can do the same using a Dremel. About the bush normally it flex under rope pull and the break think is due to the edge. The reseller should sell them and in the next stock we add few to the product packge.

Select to expand quote

Now I'm more in the waves with a surfboard, the thing that pisses me off most are metals on harnesses and buckles. Metal spreader with hooks keeps dinging my board when I land on it, whiles wiping out. And buckles stresses the glass job whiles carrying the board to and off the beach. Here's what I did: You will need 3 metal rings, yes I know. But wait for it. 8mmx68mm heat shrink (optional) First remove the handle at the back of the harness, if. You have the new mystic harness or ion it may be difficult. So you will have to make what I'm about to show you. Use that handle and heat shrink a sleave on both end of the handle cord. Covering the plastic sleave and the dynema loop on the end. Don't cover it all the way as you will need to now attach the ring on both ends. You can put a third ring in between the two rings. To make a running ring to attach your chicken loop on. If you hate metal, then forget the third ring. It Works the same but will wear faster. Loop one ring with the right side/ bottom belt of your harness and buckle it tight. Then put it on you and do the same on the left side. Attach your chicken loop on the metal ring or the plastic sleave handle and now attach your safety how you see fit create a running safety leash that deploys from the front is best. With this system you can't unhook but because your body is more open you can still create the same feeling. As the loop slides all the way to the hips. Use A harness that's 1 size smaller for this as you don't want the harness to move and it will support the small of your back.

You didn' consider the "squeezing effect" of your solution. The metal spreaderbar helps and we designed DYNABAR a bit longer to limit this issue.
Our new solution FlexTech Carbonfiber www.facebook.com/FlexTechCarbonfiber is aimed to solve this issue, the POWERBAND will help and limit the squeezing and make your solution more feasible.

Select to expand quote

bonster said..
Now I'm more in the waves with a surfboard, the thing that pisses me off most are metals on harnesses and buckles. Metal spreader with hooks keeps dinging my board when I land on it, whiles wiping out. And buckles stresses the glass job whiles carrying the board to and off the beach.
Here's what I did:

You will need 3 metal rings, yes I know. But wait for it.
8mmx68mm heat shrink (optional)

First remove the handle at the back of the harness, if. You have the new mystic harness or ion it may be difficult. So you will have to make what I'm about to show you.

Use that handle and heat shrink a sleave on both end of the handle cord. Covering the plastic sleave and the dynema loop on the end. Don't cover it all the way as you will need to now attach the ring on both ends. You can put a third ring in between the two rings. To make a running ring to attach your chicken loop on. If you hate metal, then forget the third ring. It Works the same but will wear faster.
Loop one ring with the right side/ bottom belt of your harness and buckle it tight. Then put it on you and do the same on the left side.
Attach your chicken loop on the metal ring or the plastic sleave handle and now attach your safety how you see fit create a running safety leash that deploys from the front is best.
With this system you can't unhook but because your body is more open you can still create the same feeling. As the loop slides all the way to the hips.

Use A harness that's 1 size smaller for this as you don't want the harness to move and it will support the small of your back.

I suggest NOT to use your harness with this setup as there is a very big chance to injure yourself!!!
Without the metal spreader bar your harness will be squeezing hardly your waist when the kite is pulling you.
If the ring slides to one side and the kite pulls your strong all the force on the other side will be distributed over a small part of your body where the handle/rope is in contact with your body.

The sliding rope should always be attached to a hard (metal, carbon etc.) bar !!!
Otherwise the kite could create enormous squeezing effect on your waist and injure you badly.

Select to expand quote

Absolutbeginer said..
Is the Jay product breaking?
Doubt it.
The thread is not about Jay being a bad product, more about people wanting to give it a go without forking out $150.
But be careful what you do yourself without understanding what is required.

The Jay product has a double chord.
Knots typically loose half of the strength when tied and loaded both sides; Used as a stop instead of a joining for ropes, who knows?

There have not been 30 posts pointing out the huge flaws in my calculations and this is an indicator that people are making mods without understanding what it is they are doing.
Several have also done a pretty decent job of it and at least for me has taken away the last restraint from giving it a go as it seems many have already.

The real take home from this thread is that if you use equipment outside of manufacturers recommendations, then at least be prepared to either learn enough about what it is you are doing or know that it may be possible to get yourself dropped from a height and splat the water at some awkward angle.
That, and that it seems that people are far more interested in sliding attachments instead of a fixed hook than most manufacturers give thought to and that maybe as an industry this might become the norm one day instead of fixed hooks.

Kites have gotton better in leaps and bounds but lately the improvement is only incremental.
Safeties have improved as well, and now that manufacturers are getting a grip on how to make them work as they should, maybe they can stray away from what has now become the defacto standard.

There is so much mysticism floating around about using anything but what you bought as a package, that people are not even game to swap bars, let alone mod things and point manufacturers in new directions.
How about a slider that goes all the way from the extreme of one hip to the other? Even further around behind for Toeside simplicity?
No twisting harness!
No need to have the thing so tight it strangles you.

Imagine a 360 deg version with some vertical freedom that always aligns the kite pull with your centre of gravity?
This thread has opened up my eyes to new ways of thinking, I hope it does the same for others.


Keep posting up your setups and see where we can take the industry.

The problem with moving the attachment points further round the body is what happens when the kite is other than low in front relative to your body angle.

It may then be better to have a pulley moving round the body on a stainless steel rod then if you wanted to extend the movement of the pulling point. Then you would also need connections to the rod that kept it in place without restricting the pulley movement (which can be done, but within limits).

The rope works well for a limited range from side to side but it seems to be enough for most kiting requirements.

Select to expand quote

Greenarrowz said..

jaystore said...
DYNABAR dyneema slider spliced to avoid hook release if the external layer breaks due to wear.
One side the loop to lock with DYNABAR steel pin, the other side make a Savoy/8 knot. The distance to measure for the knot is equal to the DYNABAR length.
Regular maintenance is a good practice if you want to limit equipment failures, but this DYNABAR leash is safe and failure proof!

Forums > Kitesurfing > Gear Reviews






Greenarrowz

5 minutes ago

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2 hrs into my first sesh on my new dynabar v8. Is it too hard to make a bush that flexs and not cracks.? Mr Dynabar could send me a hand ful of replacements So my dyneema doesnt get fk,d over... Some spares would have been the idea in with the kit What are they worth $1 for 100. How about it JAYSTORE? Would you like to keep a customer or 2 ?
Such a good product should not be let down by a 1 cent bush.
A formal reply would be nice.

Must admit, I can't recall seeing this before. All the used ones I have seen/service, the bushes have curved/moulded with the rope. Pop into the shop or fire me a PM and I can send some spares in the mail.

I agree with Jay, you need a spreader bar to stop the unwanted corset.

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Kitepower Australia said..


Must admit, I can't recall seeing this before. All the used ones I have seen/service, the bushes have curved/moulded with the rope. Pop into the shop or fire me a PM and I can send some spares in the mail.

Mine did exactly the same thing... such is life.

Here's what I considered:

no metal hooks
utilising what is all ready there $$
simplicity
strength

Then I gave it a go;
I've had a handful of go from light to 25knots and It's comfy and slides and no more dings.
I often ride unhook, but if this gives me the freedom and eliminate spreader bar and hooks, then I'll consider using it.
Actualy I had a killer down winder today with a bit of swell in WA and had one of the best session yet. I found with the harness I can get vert where ever an opportunity rises.
Im not trying to sell a product it's an easy fix that was costing me money and it simply works. I'll keep testing it and improve on it.
For a proven product I advise you guys to use the dyna bar or go with ride engine.

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bonster said..
Here's what I considered:

no metal hooks
utilising what is all ready there $$
simplicity
strength

Then I gave it a go;
I've had a handful of go from light to 25knots and It's comfy and slides and no more dings.
I often ride unhook, but if this gives me the freedom and eliminate spreader bar and hooks, then I'll consider using it.
Actualy I had a killer down winder today with a bit of swell in WA and had one of the best session yet. I found with the harness I can get vert where ever an opportunity rises.
Im not trying to sell a product it's an easy fix that was costing me money and it simply works. I'll keep testing it and improve on it.
For a proven product I advise you guys to use the dyna bar or go with ride engine.

In May, 2014 I did something very similar - I removed the bar of my Mystic Warrior harness and I used the back handle (going in front) with a pulley as my first sliding setup. In order to experiment with the rope length I changed the handle with a rope but connected it to the same D-rings where the handle was connected (at both sides of the harness) and without the 'unnecessary' bar. I did not like the squeezing effect especially when my waist started to hurt badly after one 'aggressive' wave session in high gusty winds. Then I cut the hook and reinstalled the bar... and then I bought the Dynabar V8 in the beginning of November, 2014 immediately after it became available.

Your setup is OK for downwinders but when your riding or the the wind conditions create sudden strong pull from the kite you will definitely feel the squeezing and I hope that you will not injure yourself. By certain harness position (if it rotates) or kite pull direction you will feel very similar as your kite being connected to a rope, tightened around your waist - which is not a pleasant experience at all, especially by sudden strong pull. If your harness rides up you can damage your ribs.

I am also not trying to sell any product

Ride safe

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DimiSUP said...

bonster said..
Here's what I considered:

no metal hooks
utilising what is all ready there $$
simplicity
strength

Then I gave it a go;
I've had a handful of go from light to 25knots and It's comfy and slides and no more dings.
I often ride unhook, but if this gives me the freedom and eliminate spreader bar and hooks, then I'll consider using it.
Actualy I had a killer down winder today with a bit of swell in WA and had one of the best session yet. I found with the harness I can get vert where ever an opportunity rises.
Im not trying to sell a product it's an easy fix that was costing me money and it simply works. I'll keep testing it and improve on it.
For a proven product I advise you guys to use the dyna bar or go with ride engine.

In May, 2014 I did something very similar - I removed the bar of my Mystic Warrior harness and I used the back handle (going in front) with a pulley as my first sliding setup. In order to experiment with the rope length I changed the handle with a rope but connected it to the same D-rings where the handle was connected (at both sides of the harness) and without the 'unnecessary' bar. I did not like the squeezing effect especially when my waist started to hurt badly after one 'aggressive' wave session in high gusty winds. Then I cut the hook and reinstalled the bar... and then I bought the Dynabar V8 in the beginning of November, 2014 immediately after it became available.

Your setup is OK for downwinders but when your riding or the the wind conditions create sudden strong pull from the kite you will definitely feel the squeezing and I hope that you will not injure yourself. By certain harness position (if it rotates) or kite pull direction you will feel very similar as your kite being connected to a rope, tightened around your waist - which is not a pleasant experience at all, especially by sudden strong pull. If your harness rides up you can damage your ribs.

I am also not trying to sell any product

Ride safe

I had sore ribs using my mystic warrior with a spreader yesterday. It was decent swell with direct westerlies wind. I wore my standard harness as I was offered to try out my friends rideengine harness. Before launching I had to swap back as I couldn't breathe, from the amount of tension I had to apply to wear it, so that the loop doesn't come undone. Anyway that's a different story... What I'm getting at is gusty days will jerk you around a lot and often causes injuries from any harness.
On the Dakine you have a choice of bottom and top straps for this system to connect the handle to, as it has two straps on each side. I recommend using the bottom one as the pull doesn't ride as high. I haven't had the squeeze that you've mentioned yet and I get the physics behind what you are saying. I'll keep working on it and look for the squeeze next session. If I can recall the pull load is the same as any harness I've ever worn.. On the back. It just isolates the different muscle on your back as you slide.
I have just been going downwinders with this system, however if there's a nice bank on the journey. I like to stay there for a bit and having that slide ability, to unwind your body when going upwind on toe side or turn further upwind riding heel side. Hurts less on the body than a standard harness that twist your body one way, whiles getting pulled the opposite way on your toe side.
So in comparison to the "squeeze"affect, this system is still less painful or dangerous than a standard harness.
To be honest unhook with suicide leash system provides me great freedom on the wave, but it's just the metal spreader/ hook that I have a problem with and need to overcome.